OWS needs a "face"

[Cyrano]

Idealism is wonderful. But human nature is what it is.

I don't believe the civil rights movement would have succeeded without Martin Luther King, or someone with equal charisma, inspirational leadership abilities, and the ability to voice the injustices being fought against.

Many here will disagree with me. The only historical event I can think of that didn't have a "face" was the French Revolution.

So here's my bottom line. If someone doesn't appear as the "face" of the OWS movement it will fail.

Anyhow, that's my opinion. What's yours?

[Enrique]

1. the Civil Rights Movement was faceless for a long time

maybe OWS will get a similar prophetic figure at some point, but it's too soon imo.

[EFerrari]

32. The movement had lots of faces before it confected the image of MLK

that people believe they know today but which is in fact a mass media creation.

[CreekDog]

54. Face? Here you go:

[gkhouston]

59. The 99% don't need a 1%. n/t

[guitar man]

75. Face

No, that's an ass! :grr:

[awoke_in_2003]

78. +1000. nt

[Mimosa]

82. +100!

Did the Civil Rights movement of the late 1950s-1960s have a 'face' or was it 'branded'?

To give a mass movement a face gives the powers which oppose it a target, iykwim. ;)

We are many. Young, old, middleaged, black, white, hispanic, male, female...

[CreekDog]

87. +1

:hi:

[CreekDog]

88. when we see ourselves in the faces of others like these brave people

that's the face that i want this movement to have.

:)

[trumad]

2. LOL

It is succeeding précisely because it doesn't.

[marions ghost]

83. Right

this movement has many faces.

Some people still don't get it.

[HughBeaumont]

3. "The Face" will be the one to take a bullet.

Idealism is wonderful. But human nature (and history) is what it is, and all that.

I mean, I'm not being snarky and I see what you mean, but I think that's one of the reasons this thing is leaderless - no one on our side wants another martyr.

Once the "Faces" of the 60s got rubbed out, the fascism glacially, but effectively, started.

[socialist_n_TN]

13. How about a face in an anarchist's mask............

:) Or a communist bandanna? :)

I agree with you though. The first "face" seen will be in EXTREME danger. It probably needs to be a woman though.

[RKP5637]

29. What comes to my mind too is Julian Assange and WikiLeaks. TPTB have done

their best to demonize him in every way possible. As soon as an OWS leader evolves they will become a target for character assassination or physical by MSM and TPTB or whomever, the 1%.

[awoke_in_2003]

79. Now that you mention it...

WikiLeaks may have been the tipping point.

[Vincardog]

4. A "face" gives the Corporate Owned media and Politicians a TARGET. As soon as OWS has a FACE the

Face will be the target of attack derision and ridicule better that they have to attack us all

[rucky]

93. Yep.

[JackRiddler]

5. The Philadelphia police captain who was arrested Thursday said...

that if someone asks to see your leader, he's probably the undercover cop.

The warriors already have enough faces to pepper spray.

I know, they could have a face that promises hope and change!

[valerief]

6. The faces are all covered with pepper spray. Pick one and stop framing OWS like a twinkie nooz story

[Morning Dew]

7. I disagree about needing a "face" at this point.

Rec.though, for the discussion.

[Marrah_G]

8. A "face" really just becomes a "target". We are all "the face"

[Cyrano]

15. Nice thought.

But we are living in a country where the majority of people can't of don't have the inclination to pay attention. In other words, far too many people just don't get it.

If there were a "leader" they could focus on, they just might.

The down side to being that leader is that he/she will almost certainly be assassinated. And as much as that sucks, a martyr is often what is needed for a movement to succeed. As cruel as that sounds, it seems to be a lesson that history has taught us.

[Marrah_G]

24. I disagree- a leader is a bad idea. They will become a target for the press

and a means to tear apart the movement.

We are the 99%

[kestrel91316]

30. If we are that bad, that pathetic, well then IMHO we as a nation deserve to go down.

And good riddance.

If people can't pay attention to their fate without a "logo" they don't deserve to survive.

[marions ghost]

84. Many leaders &

safety in numbers is the smart way to go. Recent history has taught us that charisma ain't what it's cracked up to be.

Give us hard-working, intelligent, group-oriented facilitators. A new day is dawning.

[Cyrano]

89. I hope you're right

And I hope that new day will be far better than today's world.

[marions ghost]

91. Faces spout rhetoric

...are you not sick and tired of faces spouting empty rhetoric? I know I have become allergic to it. Plan to pay little attention to it in future.

"Deeds, not words."

[TheKentuckian]

90. Worse than assassination is assimilation.

If after a season the "leader" is co-opted, corrupted, or in any number of ways ends up with their beating heart in the hands of the establishment then the movement fails due to the inevitable splintering from the predictable clash between those that stick to ideals and those that follow the personality.

A pied piper can get many followers to walk off cliffs, if they play their tune well enough. A Piper with front loaded affection and a following can get folks to turn on what they came to fight for, especially over time and as the baton is passed from charismatic figure to charismatic figure and the former gives blessings to the present one.

[WingDinger]

9. Keep them ANONYMOUS.

[yodermon]

10. here.

[TygrBright]

23. +1

[Supply Side Jesus]

57. Disco

+1

[astral]

74. +1

[RKP5637]

11. I don't think we've evolved enough as a species to have the collective mind,

so to say, be the face of OWS all the way into the future ... but currently it's doing a good job of focusing attention on the struggle of the 99%. My concern is that some one of TPTB will try to co-opt OWS and malign it into their agenda. I think down the road we'll see OWS coalesce into some form of focus/face. It could be virtual ... imagine the power of a faceless virtual voting block of millions and millions with no party allegiance and no faces to target, just this huge virtual block of power.

[Homer Wells]

12. I've been thinking about a song for the movement.

I recommend "Taking it to the Streets". I was listening to it yesterday, and the Doobies nailed it, IMHO.

[awoke_in_2003]

80. My idea for a song...

"Won't get fooled again". Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

[Homer Wells]

92. Yup! Another good one

[ret5hd]

14. Step on up!

[backscatter712]

16. We've got lots of faces in the Occupy movement.

Occupy has:

The face of everyone who shows up at Occupy events.

The face of everyone who's camped out at an Occupy site.

The face of everyone who's ever done a mic check.

The face of everyone who's been arrested, beaten or pepper-sprayed for the movement.

[marions ghost]

85. well said

:thumbsup:

[marmar]

17. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

nt

[jberryhill]

18. Thoroughly disagree

Democracy is not about a person.

[Cyrano]

20. I didn't say democracy is about a person.

Nonetheless, the road to democracy has always required "leaders" of one sort or another.

A thousand people sitting in one place getting pepper sprayed makes a statement.

But that statement also requires the voice of a "leader" to put it into perspective for a brain dead population.

[MineralMan]

19. I think that, like lots of things, OWS has the attention of

primarily those who are actively pursuing political news. Watching the normal news coverage of Occupy groups, the news is less about what is being said by OWS than about its existence and the reaction to it. DUers are very aware of what's behind it and what the issues are. The rest of the population? Not so much, I imagine. With winter weather and the holiday season becoming a reality, OWS may lose its momentum, at least as far as news reporting goes. If that happens, it may take until next spring for it to regain that spot in the news.

I'm not sure about any of this, and only time is going to say whether I'm right or not. For now, though, the general population isn't hearing much about what OWS is about, and that will probably cause the news media to slow down its coverage even more.

[RKP5637]

58. I agree. Frankly, I think much of the population is clueless, as usual, and much of

that I blame on this MSM crap that passes for news in the US. As I mentioned in my post #11, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2355436&mesg_id=2355525 it might have the potential to coalesce millions as a virtual group into a huge voting block. To me, DU is an anomaly, far different than mainstream America as to political knowledge. I also know many democrats that are clueless as to what OWS is all about... that is sad.

[Frank Jameson]

21. I'd like to see them carrying posters displaying the face of the enemy

I'd suggest Grover Norquist. The number one shill of the Wall Street thieves.

[Morning Dew]

26. I like that idea

[Sirveri]

22. Whoever the face is, will likely die in the process. I volunteer.

Despite the fact that I'm a horrid candidate, I have next to zero public speaking skills, and my inter personal skills are basically non-existent.

That said, the probability of an assassination attempt, primarily via third party, is quite high given the distortion and dog whistles being broadcast by the right wing in regards to socialism and its link to the movement. The probability of illegal incarceration is also quite high, since the system has begun to move away from actually killing the advocates and turning them into martyrs. This assumes such a person could get noticed in the first place. Having a leader would disrupt the existing media story, it's quite likely that any such leadership would simply be ignored, and if not ignored have their privacy ruthlessly assaulted. In addition it's not clear that the majority of OWS even wants a person in a leadership position. Not that I blame them, the entire country did the same thing after the revolution when it formed the articles of confederacy.

[Speck Tater]

25. Give it a face and you give the 1% a target to defame and discredit.

It's better that they have to face a million-headed hydra than a single figurehead.

[tsuki]

27. No, they don't. I recall the personal smears against Scott Olson. That

will happen to anyone that becomes a "face". You should know, the Right Wing is relentless.

[AngryAmish]

28. As the leader of OWS, I agree

[EFerrari]

31. Whew! Now I can go back to being sheep.

[Cyrano]

33. Bah ...

and humbug.

[EFerrari]

37. :) It's counter intuitive, isn't it?

[backscatter712]

72. You hang out with Shelby, the leader of Occupy Denver?

Border Collies make the best occupation leaders!

[Zorra]

34. *sigh* Oh for pete's sake, not this again.

If you need a leader that is fine, and it is your nature to follow someone, well, that's just fine. You won't find your guy at OWS.

We don't, and please don't assume that we are like sheep that need to follow someone.

We have been very successful so far. We have created the necessary national dialogue, and so much more.

We will continue to succeed until the deal is closed.

Without any leaders but ourselves.

[Cyrano]

38. I respect what you're saying, Zorra

But I truly believe that at some point the movement will require highly visible spokespersons.

I have very little faith in the intelligence of the vast majority of Americans. And I believe that, eventually, the whole movement is going to have to be slowly and painstakingly spelled out for them.

[Zorra]

46. I get that.

But we know that there is a genuine egalitarian democratic collective consciousness spreading and evolving right now, a new course in human events.

This collective consciousness agrees on a basic primary goal, almost universally agrees that we do not need a leader.

An individual leader can be easily corrupted by ego and pride. Or sex. Or greed. Etc

But this single immutable fact is the clincher:

It is a guarantee that the 1% would devise a foolproof smear against any individual leader, and that this would destroy the OWS movement.

This is why the RW think tanks have devised and have been spreading the meme that OWS needs a leader.

THEY DESPERATELY NEED US TO HAVE A LEADER SO THAT THEY CAN KILL OFF OWS ONCE AND FOR ALL

And this is why we are asking everyone that really cares to stop insisting that we must have a leader

Collectively, this cannot happen.

If an individual leader were to somehow emerge, most of us would be done with OWS.

At that point, we would know that OWS was over, so we can't afford to let this happen.

We don't need any leaders except for us.

We collectively realize that there are many obstacles. Powerful, malevolent opposition will attempt to stop us at all cost, in any and every way possible.

But we collectively know that OWS is a phenomenon whose time in history has come.

We will continue to grow.

The survival of the planet depends on it.

"Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

Please, join us, and help support and participate in OWS.

Peace

[Kaleko]

67. "I have very little faith in the intelligence of the vast majority of Americans. And I believe that

eventually, the whole movement is going to have to be slowly and painstakingly spelled out for them."

The pain will soon get bad enough for Americans to have a light-bulb moment. That's when the still-comfortable middle class will take to the streets en masse and join the anonymous leaders spearheading OWS.

See Spain for a look at the future of the US.




A protester wearing a V For Vendetta mask looks out at the crowds
filling Plaza Mayor during an Occupy Madrid anti-banking demonstration

[JackRiddler]

51. brilliant cartoon - I've also heard all of those, almost verbatim.

In fact, I can put a face to each one!

[Zorra]

55. It sure saves a lot of 'splainin'. nt

[Phentex]

63. That's perfect. I am going to send it to some local

radio idiots who are "fearful" about these protests.

Thank you.

[fascisthunter]

35. no it doesn't

[LWolf]

36. okay.

[JDPriestly]

39. Too many progressive faces have been assassinated.

The "face" would quickly become a target.

[greyl]

40. I strongly disagree, but how do you feel about this one?

[Cyrano]

42. It was tried in the 1960s and 1970s.

And in 1980, the thugs took over America.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. Yes, the thugs did take over...

after killing the other "faces"- JFK, RFK, MLK, and Malcolm X. They do a good job of taking out faces.

[bengalherder]

41. This form of protest doesn't need a leader.

There are groups here and abroad who have been quite successfully using this template with horizontal democracy and no leaders for several years now.

I can only hope that the need for the iconic 'leadership' thing just goes away. It may be 'inspiring' to some, but it just perpetrates the hero worship that allows a broad latitude for abuse.

[Spazito]

43. No, OWS does not need a "face"....

It does not need a 'spokesperson', does not need a leader. It is organic, it is NOT a top down structure we have been conditioned to believe is the only way one can consider something an 'organization'.

It is time to change our way of thinking and listen to the voices, ALL the voices, instead of believing we need one voice, one face, one leader. We don't. We are ALL the face of OWS, imo.

[GliderGuider]

44. No. A thousand times, "NO!"

Anyone who thinks it does, doesn't understand what's going on here.

That's my opinion.

[2pooped2pop]

45. Build a Frame

A face will come.

[think]

47. Instead of a face for OWS how about a "Message &/or Demand of the Day"

My pick for the 1st message and demand would be reinstate Glass Steagall.

Reinstating Glass Steagall is just a suggestion. But whether the demand is enacting specific legislation or exposing the corruption of a Wall Streeter or their political cohorts, a strong message sent daily and repeated through out the OWS camps could have an impact.

There are so many examples of corporate and government malfeasance to expose that the list could be very long. Still with some effort and organizing the most hard hitting ones could be put on public display on a daily basis to remind the people what OWS stands for.

The main stream media uses this formula to work against Occupy Wall Street. Fox News has honed it to an art form. OWS should use it to strike back!

Just a thought.

[RKP5637]

56. +1, n/t

[NewEngland4Obama]

48. OWS already has one

;^)

<img src="">

[think]

49. +!

[marions ghost]

86. [phone]

n/t

[Gold Metal Flake]

50. Occupy Denver elected a leader.

Shelby

[arcane1]

52. I disagree with your premise that it will fail without a face n/t

[Hatchling]

53. It has a face.

I'm wearing it as my avatar.

[CJCRANE]

60. Look what happened to Wikileaks after Julian Assange was arrested. nt

[AntiFascist]

61. I think you're wrong, here's why...

The civil rights movement was all about the rights of a minority against the majority. The civil rights marches were impressive, particularly when there was diversity represented in the people marching, but they simply didn't have the numbers to stand up to the oppression all on their own. Keep in mind that this oppression was largely focused in the deep South.

MLK Jr. was an outstanding leader with a unique calling to represent the movement, and he was ultimately targeted and killed. Brave members of OWS are already being brutally targeted.

The OWS movement ultimately can have a supermajority of support amongst the people, as long as the ideals truly represent those of the 99%. If any single faction takes control, then it will dilute the movement and the PTB will be well on the road to making it inconsequential.

[Cyrano]

62. The ultimate goals of the civil rights movement were obvious to even the brain-dead.

The same cannot be said for OWS. Many millions of Americans are clueless as to OWS (and to so much more.)

However, try this scenario. Let's say that OWS "wins." What does that mean? Define "winning."

And if this "victory" comes about, then what? Where does America go from there? What are the rules? How is wealth, and everything else, distributed?

None of this is currently defined, nor is any of it obvious.

While I admire the idealism of virtually eveyone who has posted here, we're still living in a world in which some form of organization is required. The alternative is total anarchy.

[AntiFascist]

66. Much of what we are fighting is the RESULT of anarchy...

anarcho-capitalism to be specific, which I would argue moves far beyond traditional capitalism. That's the beauty of this movement, I can argue that we have moved beyond capitalism, someone "marching" beside me can argue that capitalism is the root of all evil...we don't have to agree on everything! All we know is that the current system of government is being corrupted by the financial forces that are in control, all at the expense of the 99%.

Victory will not come with a specific goal being achieved. Everyone participating knows that this must be a long-term movement that will not be easy, and we will be building support. As soon as we define a specific goal and say "this is it", said goal can then be negotiated and compromised.

[Divine Discontent]

64. rec. at the least, local leaders are a good thing, but I think we've seen plenty of them doing a

lot of the talking anyhow. I agree too, with the argument that we ALL need to be the face to imply it's about US that there's a problem, not one person's gripes, and it's more powerful if we have thousands speaking out. Good arguments from both sides, and I think the way it is now, with a touch more Michael Moore, will work out! :)



Get it now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions_out_of_work_bumper_sticker-128659602907896843?rf=238107662556833486

[and-justice-for-all]

65. Ok

[temporary311]

68. If people want to see the face of the 99%

they only need to look in the mirror.

[MgtPA]

69. Did the French Revolution have a face?

[applegrove]

70. The OWS movement is as multifaceted as the internet. The internet is doing fine.

Information bubbles up from many sources. No leader is required. People just know when something rings true to them so they think about inequality and ceos buying government. And then they'll vote that way. Tis good. Don't change a thing.

[Bonobo]

71. My opinion is that you are 100% wrong.

Reducing it to a single face would be the worst thing.

[lonestarnot]

73. Is this an attempt to pin the tail on the donkey?

:kick: not to kick but just to show you the donkey. :crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Too early for that.

That said the powerful need a face to go after.

[awoke_in_2003]

77. OWS has many faces...

look in the mirror- are you one of them?