Should Loughner receive the death penalty or life in prison?

[Rocknrule]

I was 10 when the McVeigh trial was held and my position on capital punishment is the same now as it was then - that it should be reserved for only the worst of the worst. If you kill a child, you should die, plain and simple. This whole situation is shaping up to be a smaller-scale reprise of the Oklahoma City aftermath anyway - both trials being held in a separate state to avoid a biased jury, most of the nation wanting the killer's head on a platter because children were killed, right-wing influences on the killings, etc. So what do you think? Should we take the high road and give Loughner life in prison or are there in fact cases that are so heinous that they warrant the death penalty?

[slackmaster]

1. Life

I'm against the DP no matter how heinous the crime.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. executions are barbaric nt

[cali]

3. Mine's been the same for decades: I am opposed to the dp. No exceptions.

I find it utterly abhorrent.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Life.

I oppose the death penalty. Not for the sake of the criminals, but for the sake of civil society. If it's wrong for one person to kill another for reasons other than self-defense or the defense of others, it's wrong for society to gang up on someone and kill them. It's about as logical as beating a kid to teach him not to engage in aggression.

[FiveGoodMen]

10. "Not for the sake of the criminals, but for the sake of civil society"

Absolutely!

:fistbump:

[Chorophyll]

19. +100.

[blondeatlast]

91. +1 and well-said. nt

[Upton]

5. Put him down.

[hlthe2b]

6. Even if I were not against the death penalty, which I am...

I'd still have a hard time voting to execute someone who-- it appears-- may have suffered mental illness. That doesn't mean I think he was insane and thus NOT competent to be tried. Fortunately, the legal standard is quite different and it remains very unlikely he'd be able to prove that he was not responsible for his actions by reason of insanity. He should certainly face the full force of law and I would hope that would be prison without probation upon conviction. But, I do not believe in the death penalty and hope that it is outlawed nationwide and soon.

[Statistical]

34. I am pro death penalty is some cases but based on information (so far) this isn't one of them. n/t

[ejpoeta]

7. you know, the one thing i learned from spanking my daughter is that

it made her hit people. by spanking her, I showed her that violence is an acceptable way to solve problems. What loughner did was atrocious, but I don't quite know how killing a killer is justice. There are times when I think if anyone should get it is a serial killer or something.... but then, who are we? How can we be responsible for the death of another human being and not be that which we despise?

[yawnmaster]

22. I would not say that death by lethal injection is violent. eom

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

26. So by killing him

we'll be showing him that it's Ok to kill people.
I'm fine with that.

[AsahinaKimi]

8. maybe using the vote post would be better..

but I am against the DP.

[hunter]

9. Civilized nations do not have a death penalty.

Sadly, the USA is not a civilized nation.

[Romulox]

11. Thumb points down. nt

[spanone]

12. murder is murder...

state sponsored killing is just that

[SalviaBlue]

13. I am against the death penalty.

[madrchsod]

14. he will be tried in federal court and state court and...

both have the death penalty. i`m thinking both state and federal will give him a death sentence. if he`s lucky he get life.

life in a super max federal prison is far worse than death.

[hlthe2b]

20. Life in a super max federal prison would certainly be horrible...

but, having never (knowingly) been dead, I can't compare. ;) Sorry, but it always baffles me, when people say that so firmly and convincingly--even though none of us really knows.

[MilesColtrane]

15. If they can treat him to make him sane enough for prison,...

he should spend the rest of his life there with no option for parole.

[lame54]

16. He should receive a fair trial

[Blue Owl]

17. The Party of Life in Prison

n/t

[HereSince1628]

18. I'm against the death penalty. I am not a killer and don't endorse it

as a solution to bad behavior.

I understand that the law that exists is the law that will be used. It isn't waiting for my endorsement.

[Iggo]

21. Life no poss.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

23. Cheap execution...

No reason to spend thousands of dollars killing someone and no reason to spend hundreds of thousands of dallars giving him three meals a day and a place to sleep.

[Erose999]

28. Due process for an execution consists of lenghty appeals etc. It would cost less to imprison him for

life that it would to execute him.

Also, I'm not sure what method your "cheap execution" would consist of, but we do have a constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

31. Oh... appeals, I forgot...

because this fucker just might be innocent... :eyes:
:puke:

[polmaven]

52. That is why

this is called a Democracy!

As far as answering the OP's question.....I do not approve of killing another human being.....NOT IN MY NAME!

[LanternWaste]

64. Or possibly because...

Or possibly because the American justice assumes this "fucker just might be innocent...".

Personally, I'd have it no other way... but I do understand the visceral desire for vengeance.

[Erose999]

70. You can appeal the death sentence without appealing the conviction if I understand it right.

Even supposing Loughner confesses and pleads guilty he can still petition to have his sentence changed to life in prison.

[Alexander]

77. The appeals process is not there just for him.

It's for those other potential death row inmates who just might be innocent.

A good example is Governor Ryan imposing a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois because he feared that many innocent people were facing execution.

[Arkansas Granny]

95. Even those who are found guilty at trial have the right to adequate legal representation and

the appeal process as set forth by law.

[Upton]

39. Easy solution...

death penalty appeals, in cases such as Loughner's, in which there is no question of guilt, should be fast tracked.

[LanternWaste]

66. Many years ago a jury decided there was no question of this man's guilt, either...

Many years ago a jury decided there was no question of this man's guilt, either...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34467096/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[Pithlet]

94. Really. It's not as if it's usually "Well, who knows for sure, but fuck it!"

In each case, everyone on the prosecution side makes the case that it's open and shut, and the jury buys it. People who claim they're only for it "In cases that are absolutely certain"? That makes no sense to me. I'm sure the majority of jury members on death penalty panels of cases of defendants later found to be innocent would tell you they were certain of their verdict or they would never have voted to send someone to their death. And the fast track nonsense? That's even worse. So the ones that aren't fast tracked means there's doubt? Then they shouldn't even be going to their death to begin with! New trial, at the very least.

[Ineeda]

30. Generally, death penalty cases cost far more than LWOP cases. n/t

[MagickMuffin]

24. Life: & part of the sentencing he's made to watch video surveillance footage on a continuous loop

of him shooting his victims, along with pics of the victims as well. I think this would he far worse than the DP.

[Upton]

29. Loughner seems to lack remorse

so, what kind of punishment would that be, other than it might bore him to death?

[Fla_Democrat]

56. and you think that would bother him?

:shrug:

[qb]

25. Life in prison.

[MineralMan]

27. As always, I'm opposed to the death penalty.

I make no exceptions to that opposition. To do so would be not to oppose it.

[brooklynite]

32. There are three arguable reasons for the Death Penalty...

1. Protection: the argument that the public cannot be protected from the criminal unless the criminal is dead - America's prisons are by and large strong enought to hold anyone.

2. Deterence: the argument that putting a criminal to death will disuade others from committing the same crime and risking the same punishment - in the case of mentally unstable people, there's no assurance that they will rationally weigh the penalty against the intended action

3. Retribution: the argument that killing a criminal is in some way cathartic, and provides "closure" to victims and the public - this is usually where the debate ends up, and I can only speak to my own opinion (having gotten to know Gabby over the past four years), that I need "justice", rather than "revenge" to move on from a traumatic event like this.

[MsLeopard]

33. I'm against it

until it is given to everyone equally - meaning, now it is exclusively a poor persons penalty, the rich NEVER are given the DP. So I am completely against it because it is a barbaric process reserved for the poor only.

[JI7]

35. i oppose the DP but i wouldn't feel bad if he got it

[madinmaryland]

36. Life with no possibility for parole. Opposed to the DP.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. My big problem with the DP is that justice is imperfect, and sometimes they get the wrong person.

That obviously isn't the case here-- same with Tim McVeigh.

My attitude towards people like that is sort of like that towards a very sick animal. Perhaps the most humane thing is to put them down.

[jannyk]

38. I am not against the DP in principle. In some cases I believe it to be

the only course. In cases of proven Child Murderers, Serial Killers etc., I am for it. This class of criminal are deviant and deserve extermination as far as I am concerned.

Loughner however appears to be severely mentally ill. There is a huge difference between a human 'deviant' and the criminally insane. As a society, we bear some of the responsibility for him not receiving the treatment he required. I therefore believe that the DP would be inappropriate in his case and he should be confined to an institution for the criminally insane for the rest of his life.

[randr]

40. On 9/11 one thought that entered my mind

was that I wished Tim McVeigh would have been alive to witness an act similar to his own and to possible face the fact that he was just as much a monster as the hijackers were that day.
I would like to see Jared live long enough to see the positive actions that will come from the continued presence of Representative Gabrielle Giffords on this here Earth.

[Capitalocracy]

44. I'm glad he's alive now

to see that she's still standing. Kind of takes away that god-like feeling he was going for, I wager.

[leeroysphitz]

41. Both. n/t

[Obamanaut]

42. Death. Limited appeals, plenty of witnesses, tapes etc. Not much of a question as to guilt. nt

[Capitalocracy]

43. If I believed in the death penalty, this would probably be the time for it

But I don't. And just to add to the discussion a little bit, this guy's got some clear mental issues to take into account.

Off-hand (which would be a horrible way to do justice) I would say life in prison, no parole, and psychiatric care.

[NightWatcher]

45. Life. Anti-Death Penalty. The only upside to the DP is that it's leverage for pleading Life

If the person thinks they may get executed, they sometimes plead to guilt in exchange for the DP coming off the table.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. Neither if he really is mentally ill.

[Xithras]

51. Agreed. If he's mentally ill, he needs treatment.

But first we have to find out if he's really ill.

[elocs]

47. How about being held in a facility for the mentally ill? Or didn't that occur to you?

It's easy to be against the death penalty in the abstract, much harder in the specific. Those who are non-hypocritical and take the high road are against the death penalty in all cases.

[defendandprotect]

48. Life -- no parole

[arcane1]

49. Death would be a reward for him, IMO

Far worse to spend his life in a federal prison, where child-killers are not very well liked.

[SidDithers]

50. What would killing him accomplish?...

Life in prison.

Sid

[tammywammy]

53. I'm against the death penalty. He should receive life with no chance of parole. n/t

[BOG PERSON]

54. he's nuts - executing him would be cruel

compare loughner with timothy mcveigh, who did actually have a grip on reality.

[GSLevel9]

55. padded cell under medication for the rest of his life. nt

[AC_Mem]

82. I think I agree with your post

He is seriously mentally ill and dangerous and should never be allowed in society again. However, I can't morally agree that he should be killed. He has a sick mind.

[Kaleva]

57. He needs to be in a mental institution

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. Life as a public servant.

[Erose999]

75. Making big rocks into smaller rocks.

What we got here is... a failure... to communicate.

[bluestate10]

59. Life. Past political assassins are being held without parole. nt

[delightfulstar]

60. Given what he did...

It may be justified. I'm not at all a proponent of the death penalty, and think it should be used sparingly, if at all. However, he killed a federal judge, an 9 year-old child, and four other innocent citizens, and nearly killed a congresswoman. And he did in a calculated, cold-blooded manner.

[demosincebirth]

61. Life. Its cheaper.

[MrSlayer]

62. This is an open and shut, "no doubt about it" case.

Give him his trial, his one appeal and then hang him. They definitely have the right guy. There is no set up or framing or any of that shit.

[rustydog]

63. Shouldn't there be a trial first? We are still America, right?

A person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not court of public opinion.

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Normally I would say yes

Except when there is video and a confession.

I think the standard of innocent until proven guilty is kind of moot at that point.




:shrug:

[WinkyDink]

79. Frankly, you would be incorrect, as unfolding events will prove.

[PBS Poll-435]

93. The trial will be a huge waste of taxpayer money

But, obviously, he is entitled to one.

[Alexander]

80. So we should always have a trial, except in certain cases?

Where do you draw the line?

Of course, in a trial, the video and a confession will be used as evidence against him. Like the Miranda rights say, "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...".

Who knows, he may even plead guilty.

I find your idea horrifying.

[PBS Poll-435]

92. Oh. Let's have a trial.

I am just saying that they wouldn't want me on the jury.

[PBS Poll-435]

67. If you knew what I really thought about this

I probably would not be invited back.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

68. I remain unconditionally opposed to the death penalty

throw the freak in jail, he as a terrorist - don't send him out in a media orgy. I don't look to Israel for much - but they figured out a very long time ago that terrorists are best left in prison where they are forgotten while "martyrs" can cause reprisals for decades.

[WillowTree]

69. Do you suppose you could wait until he's convicted to decide on his sentence?

[Puregonzo1188]

71. How interesting--I was 6, maybe 7, during the McVeigh trial and I remember being really shocked as

a child by the idea of the death penalty. To this day, I've been unequivocally opposed to capital punishment in all circumstances.

That being said I'm not entirely sure that Loughner is mentally fit to stand trial and would much prefer to see him in a mental facility. I'm not sure he could ever be fully treated, but I don't really think prison is the place for the mentally ill.

[applegrove]

72. Life. Aside from brutalizing the american public the death penalty costs too much money.

[aikoaiko]

73. Not enough information to make that call, yet.

[backscatter712]

74. Mental hospital.

Loughner's clearly severely mentally ill.

[Broderick]

76. I don't see the point in execution

He needs to be studied, and get some help. Certainly, he should never taste freedom again, but I want to know what made him tick and what made him choose the path of chaos he chose. Might help to identify risk and educate people on warning signs. I think he crossed over from his dream states to reality and lost touch on what was real.

[WinkyDink]

78. A trial?

[Alexander]

81. After the trial, he should receive life without parole.

It's disturbing to see people advocate the death penalty, and even sentencing without a trial, on a supposedly progressive website.

[FourScore]

83. This is a difficult question. I am not an advocate of the dp,

but some crimes are just so heinous and we know we got the right guilty person. Still, I think it depends on how we view our own humanity.

I am against it, but I also believe that life in prison is no walk in the park.

[AngryOldDem]

84. Life.

In a psychiatric prison facility where he can be studied and examined to possibly decipher how someone can become so mentally, mentally ill.

[Xenotime]

85. He needs to be reviewed and counciled...not murdered.

[Robyn66]

86. The death penalty is ALWAYS wrong in my opinion

hubby and I got into it about this very issue. My oldest daughter asked the question and my position is, killing is wrong period. Husband says "you put mad dogs down". I think this man may very well be seriously mentally ill, and even if he isn't, killing is wrong. That is just my opinion.

[LoZoccolo]

87. Life, especially for the most heinous criminals.

I think it's more valuable to study them.

[cry baby]

88. a lifetime of knowing he will never be free again. nt

[LisaL]

89. I think it's extremely unlikely he will get the death penalty, due to his

alleged mental issues.

[Javaman]

90. I never understood the argument of the death penalty.

To kill someone for killing someone stops other people from killing, how?

Lock him up, put him in solitary, throw away the key.

regardless of what the pro death penalty people believe, taking away a persons freedom for life, is probably the worst thing you can do to a person. Killing them achieves nothing and only lowers the ability for a civilization to move forward.

[Blasphemer]

96. Life in a prison psychiatric facility... nt

[jmowreader]

97. Life. No parole.

There is absolutely no doubt he did it, but if we execute this man we will do two things: execute someone who's got mental problems, and create a martyr for the Teabaggers.

The last fucking thing I want to put in my paper is a line of teabaggers wearing "Remember Jared Loughner--He Died For His Beliefs!" shirts.

[hatrack]

98. Whichever's cheaper

.

[minavasht]

99. How about life

until all his organs are "donated" to people who need them?

He hurt the society, why not help a little now?

[CakeGrrl]

100. Ask the victims' families. n/t

[superduperfarleft]

101. What's your definition of "child?" Age 12? 18?

So I could kill someone on their 18th birthday and it's suddenly not as bad? Not a very good basis for a law, in my opinion.

And I'm anti-death penalty, so I think he should get life (with the emphasis being on his mental health and not as much on punishing him).