Occupy is over. Long live the 99% Movement! /nt

[Bragi]

[Huey P. Long]

1. Um, you still don't get it? One and the same...the tactic is of the whole.

...and the tactic will continue to be deployed in a variety of applications, much to your apparent dismay. It is effective and will be used again...and again.
Wish it away though. All gone!
Cheers.

[Bragi]

10. I appreciate your views

I don't quite understand, though, why you would think that I would be dismayed by the relative success that the Occupy tactic has brought about in the early stages of the 99% movement.

Occupy has been really good and has succeeded in putting inequality on the agenda. But it is limited as a tactic in terms of who can participate, and too vulnerable to attack by the cops working for the 1%. That's why I think tactics need to evolve.

I'd be pleased to debate that, but there's not much point doing so if you intend to accuse anyone who proposes new tactics as being a secret dupe/plant from the 1%.

[gateley]

22. I applaud your reasoned response. There was nothing in your

OP to indicate the "charges" the DUer is leveling at you. I just don't understand why some people insist on viewing everything through critical, judgmental eyes. :shrug:

:headbang:

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Well, the OP does not simply offer 'new tactics' the OP declares

the Occupation to be over, which is also criticism of the current tactics. Clearly, one can add new tactics without stopping the older ones. The OP also does not suggest 'new tactics' it simply declares the Occupation to be over. It is not over. But new tactics are used daily. It is not binary, as the OP rather aggressively insists. I have to wonder if the OP takes time off walking in order to chew some gum....

[gateley]

41. I think everybody is making too big a deal out of one person's OP --

But my sentiment still stands, I loathe it when someone says "obviously you" "it's apparent you mean" "clearly" --

Too easy to misinterpret and we are too eager to jump down someone's throat rather than take a moment to ask for clarification. THEN, if need be, jump down his/her throat.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. Was it over when thr Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

And, it ain't over now!

[DURHAM D]

4. Is this meant to be funny? nt

[lame54]

9. that is funny

[DURHAM D]

13. OK. Thanks - now I am LOL.

I wasn't sure at first.

[lame54]

17. go back and watch Animal House...

a funny moment in a strange inspirational speech

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. :)

[quinnox]

3. I have a feeling this thing is just getting started

To the dismay of the entrenched powers and those who are at the top, the trouble-making by the "peasants" is in the beginning stages in my opinion.

[Bragi]

15. Agreed, but the "thing" is the movement, not the tactic /nt

[aquart]

5. Uh...no.

[Webster Green]

6. WTF?!

:wtf:

[Bragi]

7. Occupy is just a tactic, the 99% is the movement

The Occupy tactic cannot succeed beyond what it has already done because most people can't participate, and the cops will have no problem continuing to bust up occupations and put people in jail on behalf of the 1%.

That's not me making up shit, that's the reality we now see unfolding.

The 99% movement for social and economic equality and justice, however, will continue and will build and can be successful.

To be successful, however, it needs to adopt tactics that are more inclusive and less vulnerable to disruption and attack.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bragi]

11. Why would you say that?

For the most part, the Occupy tactic isn't accessible to people who have families, jobs, the elderly, etc. which includes most people.

Noting that limitation is not a RW thought. It is something that should be acknowledged and addressed by people who support the 99% movement, as the camps are busted up and new tactics are considered.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. 70% of the Occupiers have jobs. And probably families too.

:eyes:

[Bragi]

19. So do the many more supporters who can't participate in Occupy anything /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Then they should make a 'tactic' of their own, and act on it.

I mean, if they can not get to an Occupation for a few hours, you do understand that many who participate do not live in the camp, but simply visit, and Occupy some space for a time, don't you? People commute to the Occupation, on days off. People bring their families. Why not?
This binary trip so many are on puzzles me. If you can not do one thing, then do another thing, or even yet another thing entirely. Who exactly is stopping you?

[MADem]

20. Stand by for some grief--I am warning you!

I take issues with tactics (not goals, tactics) and get the same crap thrown at me.

It doesn't matter how much you say you identify with the goals of social justice and economic parity, if you're not down with the OWS "technique" as it is playing out, precisely, with zero deviations, you're going to get that one percent shit--it's a 'tactic' to shut you up and make you go away (and ironically, you've been here longer than most of the people flinging stuff at you--so aren't they a bit presumptuous?).

Hell, I'd need a major multiplication of my resources to qualify as an acolyte to the frigging one percent...but whatever. It doesn't stop people from making the false accusation simply because I--or you-- might have a slightly different idea about how things might (not must, might) progress.

I guess hot button topics bring that kind of energy out in some people.

[Bragi]

25. Thanks, noted

As you observe, I have been here for quite sometime, so I know one has to be prepared to take heat if you divert from the DU orthodoxy of the moment.

I nonetheless think it's important to try to do this on occasion, and I think this is one such occasion.

[2pooped2pop]

34. I am Occupied

Hi. No one, who is not attending the general assembly's, have a real clue as to what exactly is "next". It would seem that some are occupying vacant buildings and I would expect to see Mic Check events taking the lead, throughout the winter months.
I think that Occupy is a popular name and most are reluctant to give it up. It still applies whether they are occupying the buildings, the govt offices, the streets, or the minds. However, if they see a change is needed, I'm sure they will deal with it too.

I think they have issued a general "world we envision" type statement and are now working on actual workable demands with that world in mind. I am anxiously awaiting their next move.

I am not attending general assembly's at this time. This message is only my opinion.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Uh, that's not what I said. I said if you have a tactic you wish to

employ, do so. If you can not participate in one, then participate in another. That has nothing to do with what others do. It is about what YOU do.
The binary way of thinking, that one tactic ends, then another starts, is just silly. A quiver has many arrows.
I think if you were to offer tactics you support, and seek to see them employed, that would be very different than declaring the Occupation to be over, when it is not. Your OP does not say 'let's discuss alternate tactics' it says 'the Occupation is Over'. In this movement such things are decided by consensus at each location, not by proclamation by some individual who offers no new ideas anyway.
Such choices are not for any of us to make alone, they are for the GA to decide. And that is not you, nor is it me. The DU 'orthodoxy' is also not the GA, DUers speak their opinions, and all of our opinions are equal in weight.
http://occupyeugenemedia.org/

[dixiegrrrrl]

44. I hear you making the distinction between the tactic of Occupation

and the MOVEMENT behind the tactic.
but when you said "it" was not inclusive"
perhaps what "it" referred to was unclear.

I agree with you the movement is strong, growing.
I also know I am one of the people who could never physically do the Occupy" tactic.
But I can and do support the movement, the 99% ideas, in other ways.

[NewEngland4Obama]

24. The more the cops beat down the peaceful protesters the more

support they are getting. HTH

[Javaman]

12. fail. nt

[MADem]

14. Well, I don't think it is over quite yet. I do think it will morph into something that is more

inclusive, eventually. Whether they call that something the 99 % movement or something else entirely, time will tell.

People aren't going to be camping in parks five years from now, but something that came from that action will continue to exist, hopefully. With any luck it will be more focused on specific goals and have a broad consensus. Some people think it is the beginning of a Third Party; while others don't want anything to do with elections at all.

It's still shaking out at this point. Hard to know what the future will bring. I do take your point, though (I see you're getting some grief for suggesting that OWS is heading towards "the next step" whatever that may be).

[Bragi]

18. Good thoughts, thanks

I agree entirely with you,m except I think the reality is that people won't be in camps 5 weeks from now, the 1% media machine will be happily pretending that the movement "failed", when what will be happening is that the Occupy tactic will simply have run its course.

As for the next stage, I agree that it isn't clear where the movement will go, and most importantly, whether or not it will morph into anything that will affect the outcome of the next election.

[NewEngland4Obama]

26. What makes you think they won't be in camps 5 weeks from now?

When the cold weather gets here they could occupy in 8 hours shifts. They aren't going anywhere...

[Bragi]

30. This is why I think that

The people in the camps are isolated and vulnerable to attack and arrest by police working for the 1%.

Because of this, I think most if not all the camps will be gone in weeks, if not days, not because there is no popular support for the 99% movement (there is widespread support for it in my view) but because of the limitations of the Occupy tactic itself.

That's why I think the 99% movement needs to discuss and think beyond Occupy as a tactic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I was betting it would be gone by tomorrow

From the POV of the state that's why they did what they did.

I am glad to see how off I was...

[Tsiyu]

21. Fantasies are wonderful

and Denial, as they say, is not merely a river in Egypt....

[mmonk]

23. Are you a member of an Occupy?

[Bragi]

28. Yes

I'm a financial contributor to one that's already been dispersed, and I attended several milestone rallies and few GA's. I did no camping, since at my age, camping in the wet and cold is bad for my health.

[mmonk]

32. Just asking for clarification.

Are you speaking for us in other Occupy movement groups? In other words, am I behind the curve?

[Bluenorthwest]

36. Occupy Eugene is still going strong.

http://occupyeugenemedia.org/

[mmonk]

39. Excellent.

I haven't been told to abandon our Occupy positions except by authorities.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. 'Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Occupy Here'....

Of course, Occupying parks long term is just one form of Occupation, the 'Occupy' tactic can take many forms in many places.
And those who think cold weather ends such things have never read much Union history, picket lines are a form of Occupation, and many have endured long, cold winters with great resolve. Unless someone can show that picketing workers always fold and go home when it snows, that theory is out to lunch.

[Bragi]

38. I don't understand the question

Not sure what you mean. I don't speak for anyone but myself.

[treestar]

27. In the last couple of days

It has become all about pepper spray. The original meaning seems gone from the scene. There's no talk about it, for now at least.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Yes the unprovoked vilolent attacks by the Police have gotten

lots of attention. As they should. The entire nation, starting with our 'leadership' should be standing strongly against such abuse and violence toward peaceful Americans in political protests. Right now, much of the focus is on the out of control, criminal actions by the cops. It should be so. Such violence should not be accepted by anyone. Our elected Democrats who are silent are on the wrong side of history.

[a simple pattern]

48. Right, they really have no agenda and nothing to complain about

All the problems are fixed and now they would go home except they just like pepper spray

[xchrom]

29. The Occupy is sexy - the 99%, not so much.

But it's the long run that's important -& that's the 99%.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. What are you? A one person General Assembley?

And where are you? Isolated, it seems.....

[MADem]

43. You say that as if it's a negative. The elitist attitude will help to push OWS to the next level,

or kill it off--one or the other.

People CAN agree on the goals of social justice/economic parity/corporate-congressional reform without thinking that urban camping is a good way to express that group of thoughts. That doesn't make them the enemy--everywhere except DU, it seems.

Shouting people down, accusing them of being "isolated," because they work, have families to care for, have busy, overwhelmed lives, or other issues isn't helpful. Nor is snarking at them, or denigrating them, or accusing them of being wingnuts.

That sort of divisiveness is hardly a way to encourage the 99 percent to rise up and join the effort--even if they do it in their own way.

It is, however, what I'm quite sure the corporate-congressional corruption crowd are hoping for--that the movement will eat its own, and then start chewing up the sympathizers as well.

[themadstork]

45. It's over?

I must have missed something.

[themadstork]

46. It's over?

I must have missed something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. It's evolving

Alas it's not over.

Wait for the next step, the west coast port shut down. Locally that will be interesting to say the least.

[AntiFascist]

51. I agree that the movement can evolve to many more tactics, and it has....

but the "occupy" tactic is far from over. Some need to move away from our comfort zone (the US) and look at what is happening in Tahir Square, where the fight has become very serious.

[applegrove]

52. Occupy is only starting.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

53. wtf

[Zorra]

54. LOL!!!

[Hutzpa]

56. You nailed it

but where should we nailed this one to?

[lunatica]

55. Oh God! Not this again!

Oh God! Not this again!

[Fire Walk With Me]

57. Oh dear, parallel threads. Thanks to whomever revealed that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2378027&mesg_id=2378027

[sabrina 1]

58. It's the beginning of the beginning.

A fantastic beginning. It has been declared 'over' by the far right since it started.

Which is in a way, a good thing. It confuses them each time they declare it 'over' only to have to watch it grow week by week.

I think this must be the 100th such declaration.

I hope you won't be disappointed as you watch what happens next :hi:

[Fire Walk With Me]

59. kick

[Fire Walk With Me]

60. Uh Oh, PHOTO!

[lunatica]

61. You're the walking definition of insanity

If you keep posting the same OP over and over again maybe you'll win one or convince someone. Good luck.

unrec