Poll: Just or Unjust?

[malthaussen]

A lot of years ago, in a country which the US was not liberating (i.e., a country with which we were in that condition commonly called "peace"), a civilian of the country opened fire from the street on the USMC guards at the embassy. The NCO in charge of the detail, a Gunnery Sergeant of long service who shall also remain nameless, returned fire and killed the civilian attacking the detail.

The G/Sgt was thereupon tried by court-martial, found guilty of violations of the UCMJ, and was sentenced (and is serving) to 20 years in the military prison at Fort Leavenworth.

The poll question: was this just, or unjust?

-- Mal

[pintobean]

1. Not enough information.

[Scuba]

14. +1

[freshwest]

22. +1

[Jack Rabbit]

24. Another +1

Specifically, was there anything else the G/Sgt could do? If not, then this is a great injustice.

[lamp_shade]

2. Do you have a link to more detail?

[Motown_Johnny]

3. I can't vote on that limited amount of information either

My gut says that if he returned fire then it was self defense but without knowing more it is simply that, a gut reaction.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Need more information before voting.

[dems_rightnow]

5. There's got to be more to the story

What's the part you're not saying?

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. answering a question this is the reason that due process exist

It is fundamentally irrational to believe that it is even possible to reach a conclusion on what is just or unjust on the basis of a synopsis that consist only of a couple of sentences.

[malthaussen]

7. Not enough information? Pourquoi?

What sort of additional information do you require?

-- Mal

[lamp_shade]

8. A link to the full story please?

[malthaussen]

11. This happened before the Internet

... there is no link.

-- Mal

[baldguy]

12. What's the Marine's name? What is the name of the country?

The internet does have places where history is discussed, you know.

[dems_rightnow]

10. Given that self-defense...

... is an effective defense, inside or outside the military, what were the reasons given that this defense was rejected?

Or, better yet, just give the name of the convicted person. Then we can do our own research, and not rely one someone who is trying to force the poll a particular way.

[malthaussen]

13. Self-defense was rejected

... because the NCO was not authorized to return fire.

-- Mal

[dems_rightnow]

16. I see you have no interest in a fair presentation.

Noted.

[malthaussen]

17. You consider that the bare representation of facts

... is an unfair presentation? Query where I offer any editoral comment whatsoever to "try to force the poll." In fact I deliberately did not offer an opinion in order not to prejudice the poll.

-- Mal

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. Yes. Very unfair.

[Scuba]

15. What were his orders? What were the rules of engagement? Plus, much more detail...

... on the incident itself would be required to make a fair judgement.

[malthaussen]

18. I had thought

...those were accounted for by the points that this was embassy detail in a non-belligerent country. My apologies. I am not aware that the orders were in any way different from default SOP for such details.

-- Mal

[Scuba]

21. Perhaps they're not, but did you expect each of us to know them?

[baldguy]

9. Sounds like a movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Engagement_%28film%29

[Quartermass]

19. The basic question is this:

Should a soldier or policeman die rather than defend themselves from an attacker who is a civilian or even a child?

Many people believe they should.

But I do not. i believe that a person has a right to defend themselves when being attacked.

I'll never understand this attitude that one person's life is more valuable than another's. Whether it's pro-life or other ideology.

When a person attacks another person with intent to kill, one should do what they can to defend themselves.

[Capitalocracy]

23. It certainly SOUNDS unjust the way you describe it.

But I'll add my voice to the not enough info crowd. But yes, if the story is as simple as you've laid it out here, someone shoots at you, you shoot back, sounds fair to me, shouldn't put someone in Leavenworth for it.

[-..__...]

25. The right to self defense is never denied.

[ZombieHorde]

26. Look at your signature line, then look at your poll, and then laugh at yourself. nt .

[ThomWV]

27. If the UCMJ is indeed a "Justice" system then you can not say anything else but its "Just".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. UCMJ - Bring the guilty man in for a fair trial and sentencing.