My son saw shoplifters nailed at Wal Mart yesterday. Tell me what do you think?

[ThomWV]

There is a Wal Mart store of the size that includes a big grocer store* in this county. My son works for a distributor that sells to them and he deals with that account weekly. He told us that yesterday they nailed a family group of shop-lifters at the store. The theft was done by three people, a man, his wife, and their teenage son. They stole nothing but groceries apparently. Their method was simple, they filled up cart(s) and just wheeled them out the door to their vehicle.

When the story had got this far I had a picture planted in my mind, maybe you do too. So now let me go on.

They had hauled out roughly 6 carts worth when apprehended and the value of the stuff in the carts exceeded $1,000.

Knowing no more than that, and I do not know any more than that, tell me what you think.






By far the largest and best supplied grocery store in the county, freshest vegies, best meats selection, more of the other stuff than anywhere else around.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. shoplifting for profit? To sell the stuff?

[tammywammy]

5. That's what I think. n/t

[Bonhomme Richard]

2. Bottom line..they are thieves.

If the guy stuck a ham under his jacket I would have some sympathy.

[Orsino]

90. They shoulda stolen BIG, like the Walton family. n/t

[slackmaster]

95. What do you have against a heart-warming, humble, fictional family of TV characters?

[lunatica]

3. Budding capitalists

I'm sure they weren't going to eat it all, so I will jump to a conclusion here. They were going to sell it.

[Dennis Donovan]

9. Black market...

... for FUCKING FOOD!!!

Really... think about it.

[ThomWV]

10. Could be .....

I honestly don't know, but that possibility crossed my mind too.

[lunatica]

14. You're kidding right?

snip...
In 2010, 17.2 million households, 14.5 percent of households (approximately one in seven), were food insecure, the highest number ever recorded in the United States 1 (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v.)
In 2010, about one-third of food-insecure households (6.7 million households, or 5.4 percent of all U.S. households) had very low food security (compared with 4.7 million households (4.1 percent) in 2007. In households with very low food security, the food intake of some household members was reduced, and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because of the household’s food insecurity (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v., Nord 2009, p. iii.) .

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm

[ThomWV]

17. and 6 carts is not one hell of a lot of security. Really, not much at all

And in this state that $1,000 price tag puts it clearly in the Felony range for all concerned.

[karynnj]

87. Not much food security?

Are you kidding?

[elehhhhna]

102. perhaps they stole a big freezer @ bestbuy earlier in the day?

[Dennis Donovan]

18. Your stats only underscore my point

A "black market" of a necessity can ONLY indicate a shortage of such affordable necessities.

[lunatica]

23. OK I thought you were being critical of my idea

I see you were actually adding to it.

Sorry!

[Glimmer of Hope]

53. In DC there is a black market for Tide detergent. Shoplifters wipe the

shelves clean of Tide! I am sure there is a black market for other stuff. My grocery store just checking receipts as you leave the store. Nice, huh?

[JVS]

76. Tide is better for shoplifting than groceries.

Groceries have many disadvantages on the black market. These include: perishability, having to compete with legitimate groceries that are subsidized with foodstamps and WIC, having a high bulk to value ratio which makes it hard to conceal a valuable haul, being available to all ages, and having to compete with food pantries that will give people the product for free. One plus is that everyone needs groceries, but it doesn't outweigh the bad.

Tide is needed by most people, there's no help to purchase it if you're poor, it keeps indefinitely at room temperature, and it's relatively expensive to start with.

[riverbendviewgal]

4. I thought they are hungry

then I read tat you said there were 6 carts....nope...they seem to be ordinary thieves.

[Liberal_in_LA]

me too. 6 carts of grocery? they've done it before.

[Dennis Donovan]

12. Obviously, it wasn't going to be consumed by the thieves.

It would have been sold to those who needed. That's the definition of a black market... for food.

[Dennis Donovan]

6. They stole food...

...not an xbox or an HD TV. That, besides being completely excusable in times like these, speaks volumes of America 2011.

There's either a very needy food bank or a fucking black market for FOOD!!!!!!

FSM help this once-great nation.:eyes:

[Sherman A1]

7. Working in the grocery biz myself

I would say based upon what you posted.

They shoplifted and they should be prosecuted.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Sounds like a lot more to it than simply being needy.

At least based on what you're stated. Six carts? Sheesh.......that's like a trainload.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ellisonz]

22. Such kind words for the Roma...

It's not like crime isn't present across all ethnic groups - "main" society did and said many of the same things about the Jews :eyes:

[coalition_unwilling]

13. Contrarian view. Maybe they were liberating the food stuffs

to redistribute them to a local food bank?

[Dennis Donovan]

15. Food is a necessity. When necessities are... liberated... ;-)

...it means there is a market (none more black) for a necessity to live. That is the PRIMARY warning sign for something akin to a revolution...

[sylvi]

42. There's a market for anything that's cheaper than retail

There's a market for anything that's cheaper than retail, including stolen food. It doesn't mean either the people who stole it or bought it are "needy".

[Dennis Donovan]

69. But, in tough times, such food black markets become necessities....

[ThomWV]

16. or even a very large extended family back at home - I do not know.

You know, its just at that point where I do not know. 6 carts worth? Well, hell, if there wasn't a scrap of food in the house and a bunch of kids or even a bunch of out of work adults I could see where 6 carts might not be the crime of the century it at first seems. And then there is this - what in hell does a Judge say when the theft is food?

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. Actually, it is the prosecutor who decides the charge depending on value of food.

1,000 bucks worth of food is getting up there.
The judge decides if it is jail time, depending on the pre-sentence report.
any priors?
Any previous jail time for theft related charges, or god help them, ANY drug charges in the past?
Oh, yeah, and what race are the miscreants.....sadly that will count, too,

edited for sticky fingers

[ThomWV]

36. Thank you, I should have realized that.

thanks for the correction, I should have realized that myself. The thing I'm not sure of is if the items recovered have clearly identified value (bar codes for price at time of theft) then would the prosecutor be forced to use those values or would there be some discretion available to the prosecutors? See what I mean. If they take the stuff out of the car that was stolen and just ring it up at the register they can see what the "value" of the heist would be, but would the prosecutor have it within their discretion to assign an alternative valuation method?

[NYC_SKP]

21. That would be disgusting, IMO. I work with the largest food bank in the world- we don't need and...

...do not want and will not take items STOLEN from any store, even a walmart, even by well-intended thiefs.

It is called theft and it is illegal whether taken from a little child or a giant multi-national chain.

:patriot:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

51. Optimist.

These people were thieves, plain and simple.

[formercia]

19. Soon to get job offers on Wall Street

Greed. How many cart fulls did they think they could get before being caught?

[SomethingFishy]

24. What I think?

I think this is some kind of flame bait.

They stole 6 carts of food. What were they doing with it? Were they stocking a food bank? Feeding the hungry or homeless? Feeding themselves? Or were they profiting off of it? Was this a scam, are they re-selling the food?

Either way stealing is wrong. However without knowing what they were doing it for I can't possibly decide what I think about it. There is not enough information. If you want to know what people really think then you can't ask for a reactionary answer.

[Pigheaded]

26. This was out and out theft

They should be prosecuted..

PH

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[idiotgardener]

40. Way to show the spirit of the holidays. (nt)

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Iggo]

25. My first thought is they may be selling the food.

My second thought is there must be a market for it.

[Abin Sur]

28. I think I'm glad they got caught, and hope they're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

This isn't 19th Century France, and they're not Jean Valjean.

[NBachers]

29. Just like the people who broke into my car over & over were stealing tools so they could go to work

I used to buy good tools to work with. I stopped, because all I was doing is supplying our local thieves with high-quality tools to steal.

I don't buy stolen shit from thieves.

I work in retail. I'm directly affected by all the people who steal from my workplace.

I want to see every one of 'em cuffed and shoved into a cop car. Does that make me an authoritarian with a compassion defect?

I was outside of Costco once with a cart of groceries. My young son distracted me for a couple of minutes. In that time, someone had rolled my cart of groceries away and stolen them. It was a fucked up thing to do. Spare me the "but they were disadvantaged hungry people" crap.

I'm no defender of Wal Mart. But I don't steal. Don't steal from me.

[Missy Vixen]

49. How exactly were you "distracted" enough for someone to make off with

an entire cart full of groceries in a Costco parking lot?

We live just outside of Seattle, birthplace of Costco. I've seen a hell of a lot of things in a Costco parking lot before (up to and including a fistfight over a parking spot during the holidays years ago,) but I have never seen a Costco parking lot so deserted that ANYONE could walk off with someone else's cart undetected.

IMHO. YMMV.
-MV

[NBachers]

77. I'm sorry, the parking lot wasn't deserted and I never said it was- read again carefully

In fact there was a lot of foot traffic that provided cover for whoever saw the opportunity to sneak off with my cart.

My son was young at the time; I turned separated ourselves a bit from the cart, and gave him the priority of my attention. When I went back to continue on our way, the cart was missing. I searched in all directions, and couldn't see it.

So do you think I'm lying or making up stories? Are you going to demand some kind of proof or evidence?

[TBF]

31. My view - something is wrong in this country if this is what folks resort to. Just sad. nt

[Jack Rabbit]

32. A few thoughts that rushed through my mind in no particular order

• The bread winner of the family is a WallMart employee.
• The family was trying to survive by stealing food (I'm sure a lot of that goes on nowadays).
• The idea that they would sell some of the food also crossed my mind.
• A variation on the black market theme would be that they were intending to give to give it to s soup kitchen or their church for Thanksgiving (I had a warped sense of irony -- rob from WallMart and give to the poor).
• They don't do this every day (that was a terrible getaway plan).

[IamK]

33. thieves... $1000 should put them in jail through the holidays!

:toast:

[IamK]

34. maybe they were really hungry or really fat....

thats a lot of food...

[nadine_mn]

50. Maybe that was the intent - the arrest not the food

why else get the whole family involved - maybe they just needed a warm bed and shelter for the holiday weekend?

Oh lord - how sad that would be if it was true.

[Dennis Donovan]

70. .

:thumbsdown::eyes:

[nini]

35. A whole cart ?

Not knowing their actual situation it's hard to say how sympathetic I am or not.

I would be more inclined to feel sorry for them if they stole a loaf of bread and baloney because they were hungry.

A whole cart though.. not so sure they're getting the benefit of the doubt from me.

[tammywammy]

37. It was 6 carts n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Did they fire the employees?

I knew a kid who worked at WalMart in the Garden shop. One weekend thieves stole several riding lawn mowers and the kid was fired.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. Not needy, just greedy (n/m)

[minavasht]

43. 6 carts of food

is a crime ring.
The same as $0.50 cash for $1 worth of food stamps, there is a big market for cheap stuff.
They belong to jail.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

44. They had to do two carts each before security made a move?

Did they have to go back and look at tapes to see how much they had taken?

How did they get out the door without going by a cash register?

[eShirl]

45. Robin Hoods?

[MilesColtrane]

55. Or, robbing hoods...

:shrug:

[fishwax]

46. I think they were foolish to press their luck after the fifth cart n/t

[HipChick]

47. Some Walmarts demand to see a receipt before you leave the store..

I'm surprised they were able to do six carts worth

[Rhiannon12866]

48. I've seen that, too.

I get my prescriptions there. :hide:

I've seen that frequesntly. I have no idea which shoppers they stop on the way out, but it seems to be a usual practice. :shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

54. The stunt which was prevalent in the UK a few years back

was a person buying a whole trolley load, taking it out to the car, and then returning to duplicate the trolley load and walk out of the store again being able to produce a receipt......almost ad infinitum shared amongst friends.

[jberryhill]

58. "cart" in the US

A trolley load would be a lot more here.

[dipsydoodle]

63. lol

Yes - that would be a big weekly shop. :rofl:

To us these are carts.



:hi:

[jberryhill]

66. Yeah, I could never figure out...

Why one wanted a cart either before or after a horse.

That's a wagon.

[dipsydoodle]

68. Broadly speaking

carts have two wheels and wagons four.

Roll the wagons..........late 50's tv cowboy series but can't remember the name. Rawhide ?

[Rabrrrrrr]

84. Wagon Train.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Train

It was an inspiration for Star Trek, which Roddenberry called "Wagon Train to the stars!" when he was pitching the show.

[jberryhill]

110. So, then the US and UK are both wrong - it is a "shopping wagon"

Which has four wheels.

Three of the wheels are involved in moving the wagon, and the other one just spins around.

[slackmaster]

52. Those thieves are going to end up paying a whole lot more for that food than they whould have...

...had they paid for it when they were supposed to.

[Horse with no Name]

56. My guess is food insecurity

they were going in and making one haul and hoping they wouldn't get caught on a one-time deal.

Would be interesting to know what was in the baskets...mac and cheese or prime rib?

That would be my guess.

[ZombieHorde]

57. Either they're victims or martyrs.

If the food was for themselves, then they're victims of a terrible economy and lack of social safety nets.

If the food was for a black market food operation, then they are obviously fulfilling a basic survival need that can not be gained through legal means. People need to eat, the legal system was failing to meet this need, so the family was trying to accomplish what the state could not accomplish. They were caught, and now they will punished.

[slackmaster]

92. I see a third possibility

They're assholes.

[ZombieHorde]

93. Baseless insult against people trying to alleviate hunger?

Either their own hunger, the other people's hunger.

I guess you have chosen your masters, as I have chosen mine.

[slackmaster]

94. Maybe they did it for money

Which would make them capitalist assholes.

[ZombieHorde]

96. If there is a black market for food, then that means the legal system has failed,

and people are going hungry. If people are going hungry, then someone has to help them.

If a family makes a small amount of money helping the hungry, then so be it.

You can side with Wal-Mart, and/or the failed legal system, or you can side with the hungry, or you can hate and/or love everyone involved. I am a bleeding-heart liberal, so I generally side with the hungry.

[slackmaster]

97. Not necessarily. There is a black market for cigarettes because people can get them cheaper...

...than they can on the "white" market.

If a family makes a small amount of money helping the hungry, then so be it.

You have to love moral relativism.

[ZombieHorde]

98. If the family had six shopping carts of cigarettes, I would not be defending them.

You have to love moral relativism.

Laws are abstract constructs; they don't exist outside of our imaginations. Hunger is a real event. Abstract concepts, such as laws, are very handy, but the moment an abstract concept hinders one's literal survival, it should be abandoned. Convenience should never trump human life according to my value system.

[slackmaster]

99. I'm sure more than one crook has been thrown in jail screaming "Laws are abstract constructs!"

:rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

100. Heaven's Gate cultists killed themselves so they could ascend into

alien heaven. Alien heaven is an abstract construct; it only exists in the imagination, but yet it still made people feel real feelings, and perform real acts.

Islamic terrorists blow people up for heavenly virgins.

Some gay men try to become straight so they can appease Homophobic God.

Some people use astrology or tarot cards to help form life decisions.

Abstract concepts do encourage certain behavior, but that does not make the abstract construct any more real.

Man-made laws are no more real than alien heaven or astrology.

If you disagree with my claim that man-made laws are abstract concepts, then tell me the real nature of man-made laws.

[slackmaster]

103. Come and see the violence inherent in the system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI

[ZombieHorde]

104. Exactly. They all have a different perspective on authority, because authority

is an abstract construct.

[slackmaster]

105. If anti-theft laws are abstract, so is the "right" of shoplifters not to be shot by storekeepers

With no authority there is no legitimate forum for settling grievances, and society offers no protection to anyone.

[ZombieHorde]

107. "If anti-theft laws are abstract, so is the "right" of shoplifters not to be shot by storekeepers"

I agree. Rights are abstract concepts as well.

"With no authority there is no legitimate forum for settling grievances,"

Exactly. Authority and legitimacy are made up concepts.

and society offers no protection to anyone.

We protect each other by using the abstract concepts of authority and rights. Abstract concepts are extremely handy tools, but they should not be more important than real concepts, such as hunger, according to my ethics. The concept of government can do a lot of good, but when it prevents good, the concept should be temporarily dropped. I am in between anarchism and authoritarianism: the concept of government is good, but it is not the greatest good.

[slackmaster]

108. There is NO evidence here that the incident described in the OP had anything to do with hunger

It looks like plain old shoplifting to me.

[ZombieHorde]

109. They stole food. So I think there are two likely scenarios:

1) They need food but can't afford it.

2) They know people who need food, but can't afford it.

They could just be a family of thrill seekers, but that scenario seems less likely to me since the target was food.

[jberryhill]

59. They have captives confined in their basement

And didn't want to raise suspicions by running up a large grocery bill.

[bhikkhu]

60. I don't care for w-mart, but stealing isn't usually necessary

and certainly not stealing a month's supply of groceries (6 cartloads would feed my family about 2 months).

In my area, the food-stamp program is easy to get on, there is a really good food bank too, and several church and charity kitchens where people can get meals. Its no fun having to rely on charity for most people, but I am prone to thinking that stealing like that probably comes from drug habits rather than hunger.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. Your comment reminds me of what I saw when I was a little girl

I was about 12 and I was with my mother grocery shopping. After we were done, we were in the parking lot loading up the grocers in the car. All of a sudden, we see this woman running very fast out of the store as a couple of workers were chasing her. They finally caught up to her to stop her from stealing apparently because as they grabbed her, a few canned goods fell to the ground. Eventually, they walked her back to the store and called the cops I presume. In my young mind, I couldn't figure out why she was stealing food. I asked my mother and she told me that she probably had no money to feed her family. I felt so bad at the time and hoped that they didn't arrest her. This was back in the 70's, so maybe they had compassion and just gave her a warning and ended up giving her a few groceries. :shrug:

To this day I still remember that scene and I always hoped that I would not get that bad off to have to steal food. :(

[Blasphemer]

62. I always wondered how people got away with leaving with unbagged groceries

I can understand if it's an unbaggable item and they aren't asked for a receipt and/or they produce a dummy one but a trolly full of unbagged groceries should raise a red flag. I thought that was the real purpose of the "greeters."

[Rabrrrrrr]

65. Oddly enough, in a busy grocery store, walking out with a cart of unbagged grocies is a good plan.

Most people will make the assumption that they couldn't possibly be stealing (because we tend to trust people) and that they just didn't want the stuff bagged because they have coolers and other stuff in their cars to carry things.

And as I learned from corporate security when working in the big skyscrapers in NYC, one can get away with damn near anything if you do it with confidence - so if a person heads out a door with a cart full of stuff, but does at a determined and normal pace, few people will notice and those who do will think "must be legitimate - look how determined they are".

[jberryhill]

67. My motto "always act like you know what you are doing"

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. I actually got into a friend's secure office building, and onto his floor, that way.

We had watched a security video about how easy it can be to get into buildings by acting like you should be there (which was a warning to us to remember that just because someone looks like they might belong, it's best to keep your eyes out).

So I did some of what it warned about - entered with a group of people, hung out toward the back, sort of waved to the security guard like I knew him, and walked straight to the elevator like I was in a hurry (and therefore on a Very Important Errand). They never asked me for a security card or to check in as a guest, just waved me on through.

Then I took the elevator up to the friend's floor, where there was another security door that required an RFID card. So, I stayed there until someone came through an elevator, got behind them (acting like I had just come out of another elevator) and followed them in when they scanned their card.

Other common tactics - dress in a white uniform and say you are there to fix a photo copier, or say you're there to take care of the plants, service a computer...

[WinkyDink]

73. Here's a question: After one weighs and labels a bag of fruit, say, who's to stop him from putting

more into that now-labeled bag?

[Rabrrrrrr]

83. No one. And nothing.

That's why they weigh stuff at the register now. It also means that people can eat all they want while in the store, but that's the way it goes.

People can also switch the printed labels that come from the meat department or deli, too. And they do.

Cheap ass fucks.

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. Theft pisses me off. I worked in a grocery store - a big one - and we lost a lot to theft.

Fucking thieves.

Lazy ass fucks.

No one steals 6 carts of food for any legitimate reason - or even one heavily laden cart. At that point, it's pure bullshit.

Stolen groceries = higher prices for everyone, higher insurance costs, and lost wages for the people who work there.

[Dennis Donovan]

72. .

:thumbsdown:

[WinkyDink]

71. What I think? I think they stole food. That's what I think. (What am I missing here?)

[Fumesucker]

74. I think they ought to get as much time as the banksters who wrecked the economy..

That'll learn 'em..

[lynne]

75. I KNOW they're thieves. Don't have to think about it, its evident -

- What they stole and where they stole it from is irrelevant.

[spanone]

78. six carts? i guess they don't 'shop' often

[Tuesday Afternoon]

79. wouldn't each person be charged separately, and only for the value

of the contents that each pushed out individually?

:shrug:

also, separate trials each with their own separate chance of plea bargain

:shrug:

Idk why they did it but, honestly in this day age, 1k worth of food for 3 people is not that much. It would not surprise me if they were planning on taking it home and stocking their pantry and freezer.

:shrug:

mind, I am not condoning what they did at all.

only asking questions.

please, no flames.

[blue neen]

80. IMHO, shoplifting is theft.

Then we all pay the price, ultimately, for what they steal.

Stealing is not the way out.

[notadmblnd]

81. It'sbeen my experience that retailers don't worry so much about custmers stealing

as they do their own employees.

But if these people needed the food to eat then I have sympathy for them. However, over 1k worth of food, seems excessive for a family of 3.

[jberryhill]

85. Are they executives at Bank of America, by any chance?

Maybe they got confused and thought they were at work.

[karynnj]

86. What's to think - they are theives - period

This is not Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread. They had stolen 6 carts worth of food when they were apprehended . This means even that amount was possibly less than they intended to steal.

[GoCubsGo]

89. Yep.

People who are only worried about feeding their families don't take that kind of risk. They'll take enough for a meal, not two months worth of food.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people go through to get something they want. Last week, when I was in the Goodwill, I was chatting with another woman, when a mentally disabled woman came up and tried to ask us a question. When we finally figured out what she was saying, she said someone had taken a shirt out of her cart when she wasn't looking, and she wanted to know if we had seen it. I asked one of the employees if she happened to find it and put it on her rack for re-shelving, and she said that people take stuff out of other shopper's carts all the time. I mentioned it to my sister, who lives in another state, and she said that it's really bad at the second-hand stores in her town, too. People are stealing from each other before they even leave the store!!! Unbelievable. It's this "I want it, screw you" mentality, way more than it is being needy. Another example would be that extreme couponing show, where they have a zillion coupons, which allows them to clean out the shelf, leaving nothing for anyone else. It's not always about need.

[krispos42]

88. Their error...

...was in not getting Congress to sanction them passing the costs onto the rest of the shoppers. If they were the coal industry, this wouldn't be a problem.

[Danascot]

91. Aspiring bankers?

[Quantess]

101. They are serious, big time, shoplifters who deserve more than just a "slap on the wrist".

People like that know they will be caught eventually and they don't give a shit. That's no way to conduct yourself, especially not in front of your own children. I think it's disgustingly egregious behavior, especially because children/youth were involved.

[BiggJawn]

106. Must have been really hungry.

Or they're stocking a small neighbourhood grocery...


We had a Professor here who was caught in a complicated shoplift/fraudulent return flim-flam last month. Bought a bunch of stuff, came back in, returned it, loaded up on the SAME stuff, walked out with it (of course he had receipts)came back in, loaded up his bags again, walked out, and grabbed 3 pumpkins and took them to his car.

Guy makes almost 70 Kilobucks a year. I think he has a "problem" he needs help with.