Remember the 'Mystery Rocket' near L A a few weeks ago.

[Sonoman]

Remember the flat, blanket denials from the Pentagon?

Remember all of those 'experts' (many right here on DU) who had all of these scenarios regarding "It was an airplane for sure".

Remember all of that.

NPR just said that the Pentagon has admitted that it was, indeed, a heavy rocket (they even reported the type of rocket, but I missed it- maybe a Mark-4?), carrying a top-secret (whoo! whooo! don't tell anyone) launched from Fort Something-or-Other 75 miles north of Los Angeles.

Can you believe our Dear Pentagon would have lied about something witnessed by so many people?

I think I will pour myself a drink, go out back and look for UFOs.

Sonoman

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Well on the plus side it is NO LONGER a UFO

Yep, hubby looked at it, and as former submariner said... ROCKET, ballistic lunch.

[Johonny]

23. the reader is confused

Today a Delta IV launched from Vandenberg AFB. These launches are so secret it's already up on Wikipedia :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thor_and_Delta_launches_%282010%E2%80%932019%29

[Ptah]

2. Secret payload launched on largest West Coast rocket

This one?

LOS ANGELES | Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:32pm EST

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The largest rocket ever launched from the U.S. West Coast blasted off on Thursday from Vandenberg Air Force Base, carrying a top secret satellite into orbit, military officials said.

The Delta IV Heavy rocket stood 23 stories tall, and its engines produced 2 million pounds of thrust, according to the 30th Space Wing of the U.S. Air Force.

[arcane1]

12. It's obviously not that one...

since the rocket in the linked article was launched today, not several weeks ago.

[Ptah]

15. I'll wager this was the rocket the OP heard about today.

[arcane1]

17. As will I n/t

[slackmaster]

18. Me Three

:hi:

[slutticus]

84. Count me in.

:rofl:

[cbayer]

3. I don't know why they covered this up. The sea off this base is a well designated

missile testing range.

We have been buzzed by military planes and forced to leave the area before when they are testing. Everyone who sails in these waters knows this.

So I never did get why they would deny it, unless the protocol wasn't followed and there were civilian boats in the area.

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Hubby explained it

we were not 'sposed to see it and the atmospherics were all wrong for that.

[cbayer]

19. I guess so, but everybody out here knows they shoot off missiles from both the land

and from submarines in the area.

They even announce it on the VHF marine stations. I just don't get it.

They also drop bombs from planes. Three of the Channel Islands are completely owned by the military and you can frequently hear the huge explosions.

We saw another straight up into the air trail just 2 days ago and assumed it was a missile.

[slackmaster]

21. We also know that a missile in flight doesn't stay visible for 10 minutes

:nuke:

[cbayer]

29. But the trail does, doesn't it?

[jberryhill]

34. Depending on conditions

However, a notable feature of the aircraft contrail a few weeks ago was the visible object at the "top" which was generating it and also remained visible for minutes.

[slackmaster]

39. Exactly

A missile is gone, completely out of sight within a few minutes.

[slackmaster]

38. Absolutely, and much longer

And the part that's above the troposphere looks quite different than an aircraft trail after a while.

[krispos42]

56. How is it labeled on a chart? :-)

"SECURE SECRET FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LOCATION - KEEP AWAY - GUARDS AUTHORIZED TO USE LETHAL FORCE - NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG CITIZEN - YOU DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING"


Maybe with some accompanying graphics?





:-)

[cbayer]

80. You're funny, Krspos42!

:rofl:.

[blm]

4. first thing ALWAYS out of DoD is a lie....some day I'll join you for that drink

.

[tularetom]

5. I don't know about you

But if the Pentagon denies they know about something I more or less assume they know everything about it.

So for me, this story is just another example of suspicions confirmed.

[Canuckistanian]

22. Oh, yeah

The minute the Pentagon doesn't know what's going on, sirens will start wailing and Dick Cheney will be getting his heart transplant from a "suddenly available" donor.

[petronius]

6. Are you sure you heard that right? Vandenberg launched a Delta IV Heavy today,

with a spy satellite - and the 'odd' bit was they told everyone about it. Could the stories have gotten conflated in your listening?

[Ptah]

10. +1

[petronius]

20. Didn't notice that you'd beaten me to it...

Wish I'd remembered this in advance - I noticed a bit of the contrail on my way home, but it would have been nice to go find a vantage point. Delta launches are pretty impressive...

[slackmaster]

24. There is no way a Delta launch could be confused with an aircraft contrail

The rocket is far more impressive.

[petronius]

27. No, definitely not. What I noticed today was after the launch - very high clouds

that looked like the remnants of the rocket contrail. Could have been mistaken, of course: it was an hour later and I'm a bit north of the base...

[El Supremo]

16. "

[haikugal]

7. Thanks

It's good to have an update. I find it hard to believe that so many who saw it with their own eyes wanted so desperately to believe the BS stories from the 'experts'.....you've got the right idea on those UFO's...lol

[Ptah]

46. It's good to have an update.

It's even better to have a factual update.

[haikugal]

68. Facts have become quite exotic haven't they?

Rare birds not often seen.

[slackmaster]

9. I'm calling Bullshit due to lack of link

It was an airplane.

[Bonobo]

11. Ha ha to all the usual "anti-conspiracy" types.

You know the ones?

The ones for whom the very fibers of their being are threatened by the idea that anything occurs in this world outside their ability to immediately explain it away.

They laughed. They LOL'ed. They dismissed anyone that said it was a rocket and made unfair statements about aliens, moon landings and 9/11,

This is a big in your face and I hope they can apply this experience to their world views.

[Johonny]

perhaps they work for the companies that launch these things

so the know when these have and haven't launched...

[Ohio Joe]

32. Except that the OP seems to be mistaken

and heard about a rocket launched today.

[jberryhill]

33. "This is a big in your face" - to the gullible

There was no such statement by the Pentagon today.

But if someone posts something on the internet which you are inclined to believe, then believe it you will.

A well reported Delta IV launch took place TODAY in California.

You can watch the video of it here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/20/rocket.launch/?hpt=T2

Washington (CNN) -- The largest rocket ever launched from the West Coast went into space Thursday afternoon carrying a secret "national security" satellite, Vandenberg Air Force Base in California announced.

----

Tell me all about the credulous and trusting "sheeple"...

I have applied this experience to my world views, and find that the "usual conspiracy types" will believe any piece of unconfirmed information that fits into their picture with rapid speed, no critical thought, and extreme gullibility. Moreoever, they will demonstrate these traits with arrogance.

[Common Sense Party]

41. "usual conspiracy types" will believe any piece of unconfirmed information

that fits into their picture with rapid speed, no critical thought, and extreme gullibility. Moreoever, they will demonstrate these traits with arrogance.




Very well said, and often demonstrated.

[Crabby Appleton]

53. Exactly

[petronius]

47. Now that the thread has run its course, what lessons can be learned from it?

Who should apply the experience to their world views, and how?

:)

[slackmaster]

49. 1. Humans are not very reliable witnesses

2. Occam's Razor still applies.

3. People aren't very good at interpreting photographs or videos, especially when the image lacks concrete references of known size and distance.

4. Some people are drawn to stories that challenge conventional understanding.

5. Some people can never be convinced that their irrational ideas are wrong.

[PufPuf23]

55. I am spent 35 plus professional years interpretting large scale remote sensing for

the Feds, Wall Street, academic, etc.

The day I was most appalled by the technology was when Powell presented the justification for Iraq to the UN.

You are admirably correct about scale (#3) and this applies to economics and most statistical "data".

Being drawn to other than the commonly accepted narrative is too frequently perceptive given the state of volume and communication of information and those consciously willing or unconscious about convergent social engineering. Social engineeering (war to food stamps) can be brutal. My druthers is for soft transition because brutal is evil to innocents and Nature.

[Common Sense Party]

60. For proof, see: "9/11 Truthers"

And Obama "Birthers"

[Marr]

78. No lessons to be learned now. Move along. :P

[Lorien]

58. They said "of COURSE it's a jet! Any moron can see that!"

I live 40 miles from NASA and 10 miles from an international airport for 22 years. Don't tell me that I can't tell an airplane from a rocket!

[slackmaster]

71. Of course you can tell the difference easily, if you witness the event directly, with your own eyes

Every "expert" who has come out to declare that it had to be a missile launch claims some kind of credentials - Worked as flight operations director at an air force base, launched missiles from submarines while in the Navy, observed hundreds of rocket launches from a high vantage point while serving as a door gunner on the Space Shuttle, or simply lives in a place where both airplanes and rocket launches are common.

None of those people have the qualification that really matters in this case: Skill at interpreting photographic imagery. Most of us didn't see the event; we've only seen edited video of it, taken from a single vantage point and woefully lacking in critical data like azimuth, compass bearing, zoom level, etc. Also missing are any fixed, non-moving reference objects of known size and distance.

If you tell a person "I'm going to show you a film of a missile launch now," then present the original news footage, a lot of people are going to see it as a missile launch especially if you dub in creepy Cold War-esque background music. Once given that bias, many people will keep seeing a missile launch no matter what information they receive later. Show the same footage without prejudicing the person in any way, and people may see it as something other than a missile launch - Like maybe an airplane approaching the California coast at high altitude from the West, which happens many times every day.

The real proof that the Emperor has no clothes in this case is the fact that the PAVE PAWS radar at Beale Air Force Base would certainly have detected a rogue rocket launch, and the shit would have hit the fan in a huge way. The military saying nothing or saying they don't know anything proves absolutely nothing. It's not their job to monitor civilian air traffic, so if someone shows them a film of an aircraft contrail and gives the location and time, all the they are going to do is say "It's not one of ours," because it's not their problem and they really don't care.

[spanone]

13. can't. find. any. link.

[NNN0LHI]

14. The denial of the launch of a rocket with a top-secret payload indicates the existence of UFOs?

Sure about that?

Don

[spanone]

25. nothing on npr website. nothing on google. nothing here. link to today's launch

this was TODAY -- the 'lie' would be big news......


Launch of giant rocket in Southern California heard for miles

With a thunderous roar heard for miles around, the tallest rocket ever launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base blasted into outer space, hurtling over the Pacific Ocean as it cut across the afternoon sky.

At 1:10 p.m. Pacific time, the 23-story Delta IV Heavy rocket lifted off from the base just north of Santa Barbara. A white plume trailed the massive rocket as it ascended.

Standing 235 feet tall, the rocket was so large that the blast reportedly was heard as far away as 50 miles. According to aerospace experts, the booster was carrying a top-secret spy satellite for the National Reconnaissance Office — the covert federal umbrella agency that operates spy satellites.

The rocket hit speeds of about 17,500 mph as it climbed toward space. About six minutes after launch, the first stage of the rocket broke away — later splashing down in the Pacific.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-vandenberg-launch-20110121,0,410521.story

[End Of The Road]

26. While you're searching for those UFOs

Check the southern sky for me and see if Nibiru/Nemesis has arrived yet! 2012 is almost upon us!

(not gonna add the sarcasm thingie -- it would be a slap in the face to the intelligent)

[jberryhill]

28. Bull

Link or it didn't happen.

[neverforget]

30. A rocket was launched from Vandenburg Air Force Base today which is

175 miles north of Los Angeles

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Link to show that you are not conflating today's launch with that

event. Also, I think you mean Vandenberg AFB.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Hmm two different stories dear Sonoman

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml

That is the original one

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/20/rocket.launch/?hpt=T2

Today's lunch

[pintobean]

36. Fail

[Duer 157099]

37. 23 stories tall? That ought to be easily visible from space

I mean, on Google maps.

[Codeine]

40. Unrec.

Straight-up misinformation.

[jberryhill]

42. Rec'd

As an object lesson.

[Codeine]

45. You may have a point, sir. nt

[WinkyDink]

43. And there were no Naval ships, well, no submarines, well, okay, SOME ships AND subs near TWA 800.

[old mark]

65. YES! And the CIA film explained clearly that "it could not have been a missile"...

They said it was debris from the aircraft itself FALLING DOWN that appeared to be a missile rising toward the aircraft...never mind that it first appeared near the horizon and CHANGED COURSE as it locked on to the target and that the explosion appeared only after it struck the aircraft...
They released an animated film showing how up was down...

WD, maybe someday the truth will be told about that, but I sort of doubt it will be anytime soon...


mark

[SidDithers]

44. Hahaha...

"missed it by that much". :rofl:

Sid

[NutmegYankee]

48. FAIL

That rocket was launched -TODAY-.

[sarcasmo]

50. Let the story die down and then come out and say oh by the way.

How hard is it for our government to tell the truth.

[tammywammy]

51. It was launched today

http://www.space.com/10654-huge-rocket-launching-california.html

Huge Rocket to Launch From U.S. West Coast Today

Ever since the final Titan 4 rocket soared over the horizon from Vandenberg Air Force Base five years ago, the nation lacked the ability to deploy the largest of reconnaissance satellites into polar orbits from the West Coast. But that gap will be closed this week when the modernized replacement makes its California debut.

The Delta 4-Heavy rocket, made by United Launch Alliance, is scheduled for liftoff Thursday at 1:08 p.m. PST (4:08 p.m. EST; 2108 GMT) from Space Launch Complex 6.

The booster is carrying a massive spy satellite like the ones the Titans used to deploy before those rockets were retired from service in 2005.

When the country's lead agency for operating intelligence-gathering spacecraft, the National Reconnaissance Office, ordered another big satellite, plans were set in motion to bring the Delta 4-Heavy to Vandenberg. The western spaceport is the nation's launch site for sending surveillance craft into polar orbits to observe nearly all of the planet's surface.

-snip-

[tammywammy]

52. Unrec

The Pentagon was referring to a launch that happened today.

[PufPuf23]

54. Military is more important now than Americans are being informed.

The same leadership has created the situation we suffer.

[KansasVoter]

57. Post proof of this or it is just BS!,

[greyl]

59. Remember to come back and apologize for posting nonsense. nt

[Common Sense Party]

61. Yeah, right.

Being a conspiracy theorist means never having to say you're sorry.

[taterguy]

66. Remember that apologies are a sign of weakness

[apocalypsehow]

62. Another CT'er OP thoroughly debunked by actual facts as they exist in the real world. UnRec. n/t.

[SidDithers]

63. Kick for the lulz...

And to give the OP another chance to come back and admit the error of their ways.

Sid

[old mark]

64. That was obviously a missle...I wonder why they finally told the truth about it...nt

[Rockholm]

67. This should stay kicked.

[SidDithers]

82. Agreed...nt

Sid

[Gold Metal Flake]

69. Goddamn but this is a funny fucking thread!

I lulz.

[Lucinda]

70. Wow...There is an awful lot of childishness in this thread

Heya Sonoman....hope they day treats you well. :)

[Major Hogwash]

72. THAT GUY ON TV IS KRAZY!!1!

I'm series! He's froot loops.

[Javaman]

73. Old news, they admitted it like a 2 days after the incident.

it was on Rachel Maddow.

[slackmaster]

74. Unsubstantiated claim is unsubstantiated

Let's see the video.

[Javaman]

75. Here's a link...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328155/Pentagon-says-mystery-missile-California-aircraft.html

Pentagon NOW says California 'missile' was an aircraft... a full 48 hours after the event
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:24 PM on 10th November 2010

It may have taken 48 hours, but the Defense Department is now saying that it was an airplane and, crucially, not a missile that left a mysterious vapor trail off the coast of Southern California.

Pentagon spokesman Dave Lapan said: 'There is no evidence to suggest that this is anything else other than a condensation trail from an aircraft.'
Colonel Lapan reiterated that there was no threat to America.

The video of what looks like the contrail of a missile was shot on Monday evening by KCBS cameraman Gil Leyvas from a news helicopter over Los Angeles.

[slackmaster]

76. OK, they "admitted" that it was an airplane

I guess I didn't understand your original reply.

I apologize to Javaman for my mistake.

[Javaman]

79. No worries, it's all good. :)

I wonder sometimes, do any of these various mysterious things (real, imagined or explained) really matter?

The military does all kinds of stuff that is never seen by any civilian, yet when something is seen, we all freak out.

And then there are the many unexplained things. I used to be into UFO's and the various conspiracy theories, but one day, I thought to myself, "self, okay, so if these are various conspiracies, what am I to do about it?"

I shrugged my shoulders and started worrying about things that matter, like food and paying bills. LOL

Cheers!

[Kali]

77. sorry but I just feel the need to place a reply in this thread

I hate being wwrrr...mistttt...incorrrr...well you know, myself.:D

[Crabby Appleton]

81. Unrec'ed for fictional OP

[undergroundpanther]

83. A unknown known is now known..

Of course the pentagon and all those alphabet soup organizations lie. They lie like rugs about shit they shouldn't lie about, lie about stuff they don't have to lie about, and they lie to us ,and they DO betray us.
I await the day when the pentagon can no longer hide.I await the day when secrets are no longer tolerated.