King County bans public e-cigarette smoking - fear of eroding "social norms."

[The Straight Story]

King County bans public e-cigarette smoking

By VANESSA HO
SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

The King County Board of Health passed a controversial proposal Thursday that bans the public use of electronic cigarettes, despite protests that the battery-powered, nicotine-delivery sticks emit no second-hand smoke and are often used for harm reduction.

The measure is not a complete ban on e-cigarettes. Rather, it prohibits e-cigarette smoking in the same places where real smoking is forbidden by the state, such as restaurants, bars and workplaces.

But the state's tobacco smoking ban, adopted in 2006, was based on the fact that second-hand smoke causes cancer and other diseases. The rationale behind King County's e-cig ban was a fear of eroding "social norms."

Health officials reasoned that the fake smokes - which emit a less-smelly, combustion-free vapor - are so similar to real smokes that they may cause people to think it's OK to smoke in public. And that may lead to more nicotine addiction and second-hand smoke, officials said.

"By returning smoking to the public eye, public e-cigarette use threatens to undermine the social norming impact" of the smoking ban, testified Scott Neal, manager of the tobacco prevention program for Public Health -- Seattle & King County.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/431933_e-cig-ban.html?source=mypi

Paging the pilgrims and old time missionaries - you are back in style.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Can never have too much conformity!

[krabigirl]

16. seriously

[Fuzz]

2. sigh

[AnOhioan]

3. Freakin idiots

[LawnKorn]

4. Oh Boy! an artificial smoking thread

:popcorn:

[Occam Bandage]

5. Ban e-smoking, mandate cigarette smoking. nt

[The Straight Story]

7. Or mandate those against it spend 2 hours in a garage with their running car

And see if the stuff spewed from it is safer :)

[Occam Bandage]

9. And injecting cigarettes into your aorta will kill you faster than injecting heroin.

Cigarettes worse than heroin? I'm just reporting facts here.

[The Straight Story]

11. Not talking injecting, talking about second hand

I will spend two hours chain smoking in my garage.

The you spend two while my car is running in it.

Then tell me which is worse for those breathing it second hand.

But then, people don't like to admit they are adding more toxins to the air as they take a bus or drive to work a day than smokers who choose to hang out together and pay for a beer. If they want to control choices they need to look at how their own choices are doing the same thing but worse (cars/global warming/world ending vs people who choose to be in an enclosed space by choice having a beer and smoke).

Save you and others from my smoke in a bar? Done - I rarely go out.

Save me from your carbon emissions? Yeah, I am sure you and others will get right on it.

[Occam Bandage]

12. I'm not allowed to leave my car running for two hours in a bar, either. nt

[The Straight Story]

13. No, but you can drive it right by me while I am standing outside

Should that be banned as they are banning smokers outdoors?

If one is REALLY concerned about health issues, why not address the ones where people don't have much choice versus a bar where people have a choice to go there?

And if a bar wanted to allow people to park inside, I am fine with that - I just would be an adult and exercise my choice not to go there (choice - a word I think which is becoming extinct).

[MineralMan]

15. No, but you can suck down a bunch of drinks in the bar, then

get in your car and kill me. Interesting, isn't it?

[Occam Bandage]

19. I'm not sure that's legal in any state. nt

[MineralMan]

23. No, it's not legal, but it happens every day. You've been in bars,

I'm sure. If you have, you've seen people walk out and get in their cars who should not be driving. It's a fact of life. Whether it's legal or not is irrelevant.

[TheMadMonk]

17. Could be BS, but I've been told the lung cancer rate in smoking farmers...

...is considerably lower than in non-smoking city dwellers.

[Kalyke]

22. And I've seen studies by the World Health Organization that prove

that smoking is decreasing while lung cancer is increasing. The W.H.O., as opposed to The Who (Rock on, Pete!) had to scrap it's genuflections and start studying race, gender, weight, activity, types of food consumed and the lot to figure out why that was happening.

[Hannah Bell]

27. injecting air will too. doesn't mean air is worse than heroin.

[Forkboy]

6. I wish it was up to me what the 'social norms' were.

:evilgrin:

[Kalyke]

8. Good God.

This is what they mean when they say, "Nanny State."

A bit much.

[TheKentuckian]

10. The amount of sane people in this country would apparently fit into a football stadium.

It does give credence that control rather than health has been a big impetus for smoking bans and restrictions.

Pure and uncut authoritarianism, the "concern" for health was in a fair chunk's tool for achieving quite different actual intents.

It doesn't matter if something is "alright" or not when it is absolutely not impacting anyone else.

Fighting harm reduction is a form of insanity.

[Odin2005]

14. What a bunch of nanny bullshit! And I'm for the smoking bans!

[SmileyRose]

18. I don't want a "less smelly vapor" in my lungs either.

I've never encountered one so I have no idea how toxic the thing might be in an enclosed space but to ban it for "social norms" is asinine.

[Kalyke]

24. So you stay indoors all day with hypoallergetic air pumped into your home?

Otherwise, you're getting "less smelly vapor" from cars, industrial pollution and Mother Nature's mold/pollen overload.

[The Straight Story]

28. True indeed. I work near a factory that spews out some nasty crap

yesterday it smelled like a gas leak with rotten eggs, some of the workers in the warehouse area called 911 as they thought we had a leak.

Nope - just more shit being spewed down the street. People know better than to bitch at us smokers on break about the smell of it if they walk by :)

[rucky]

20. This is as bad as the ban on ugly horses

mentioned in the Time-Life Books old west series.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Do they have standing to do that?

[jmowreader]

25. I can understand this...

but I wish they wouldn't have used the term "social norms."

The problem as I see it: a LOT of electronic cigarettes look very much like tobacco cigarettes. Go to http://www.njoy.com and look at the product: it looks very much like a Marlboro. Most of it is white with those neat ridges a tobacco cigarette has, the "filter" is colored like a cigarette filter, and it has a nice little glowing cherry at the end. If Joe DUer is at a Seattle bus stop or in a bar vaping one of these, a hell of a lot of people with tobacco cigarettes in their pockets are going to be stupid enough to light up.

[TheKentuckian]

26. They all don't, the one I tried was blue.

In any event. It isn't a cigarette and there are no burning toxins for you to be bothered with and it is completely none of your bee's wax.

[jmowreader]

29. Quite a lot of them do look like tobacco cigarettes

Yes, I know it isn't a cigarette. Yes, I know there are no burning toxins.

I also know dumbasses who see those things in action are very likely to fire up a tobacco cigarette because "that guy over there is smoking."

[TorchTheWitch]

30. we need this ban to protect the "dumb asses"?

No, we don't. Any "dumb asses" are on their own for breaking the tobacco ban if they're so stupid to go ahead and light up a tobacco cigarette because they see someone vaping - they KNOW the law. Since when does knowingly breaking the law because you assume someone else is considered so acceptable that instead of going after those breaking the law you go after those people that AREN'T???

The whole premiss of the tobacco smoking bans - and the ONLY way they could get them passed - was the second hand smoke health factor. Vaping does not use tobacco and there is no second hand smoke. The vapor is non-toxic and virtually scent-free, so there is no health hazard whatsoever to anyone else.

This new vaping ban just proves that the original excuse for the no-smoking bans were always a big fat fucking lie.

[ohheckyeah]

32. Of coure it was a big fucking lie.

It's all about control.

[Matariki]

33. So much work had gone into making smoking appear dirty and unacceptable

they don't want to undo that. I think it's idiotic. If e-cigarettes help people quit smoking then they are great.

[ohheckyeah]

34. Since when is something made illegal because it

might look like something else? Good God.

[Matariki]

35. I know - it's completely insane. I'm usually not embarrassed to live in King County.

[ohheckyeah]

36. Well, I live in VA

so I understand being embarrassed by where one lives.

[Matariki]

31. Sheesh. I knew it was all about not liking the way smoking *looks*

This disgusts me - and I've never smoked. And I live in King County and thought people weren't quite such idiots here.

[DirkGently]

37. Because it's the conformity that's important, not the health of the citizenry.