Is bigotry against American's common?

[MichaelMcGuire]

Have you experienced this? I must admit I've spend the odd time defending Americans posters from attacks that attack them rather than any points made.

[Fumesucker]

1. It's common even inside America..

You have 27% that hate the rest and that's just for starters.

[MichaelMcGuire]

2. 27%

[Fumesucker]

3. Here..

http://www.balloon-juice.com/balloon-juice-lexicon-a-h/

27 Percenters – Those Americans who will predictably vote against their own best interests. In his seminal post on the Crazification Factor, John Rogers used the 2004 Obama/Keyes senate race as a measure: “Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.”

Or, as commenter Davis X. Machina phrased it:

“The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of who will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn’t even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.”


ETA: You really should read the entire thing, it will give you a perspective on American politics that isn't readily available anywhere else I know of, along with a good deal of weapons grade snark.

[MichaelMcGuire]

4. I'll give it a looky

[hifiguy]

100. That sounds just about dead-bang right.

My guess has always been that between 25% and 33% of the electorate is just plain batshit, barking-at-the-moon crazy. Will definitely chack out the whole article.

[a la izquierda]

5. I've had one person...

be a real jackass to me while traveling overseas for being America, and that was in Latin America. We were discussing the Mexican-American War and the person had facts just plain wrong. The man I argued with was European-can't remember from where as this was several years ago. Even Mexicans defended me, as I was accurate in my description of events. This dude just wanted to pick at me for being an American imperialist.

[whathehell]

12. In 2008 I went to Europe wearing am "I'm sorry my President is an idiot" T-shirt in 4 languages.

Bush was still in office, so I anticipated the hostility.

That being said, my spouse and I STILL got anti-american shit from

an Aussie who had been living in the UK for the last

five years...He was so obnoxious that two other older,

wiser Brits had to politely "shut him down" as it were.

I've experienced other similar incidents from other Euros

on occasion.

[Cid_B]

16. Well, you are kind of asking for it there...

[whathehell]

21. Uh..No...sounds like you've deliberately misread things.

When one ADMITS they don't like and didn't vote for the president they despise,

that seems hardly the time to "gang up" on that person...Unless, of course, the Aussie DID

like Bush, which wasn't the case.

[Cid_B]

25. No, I read it just like you wrote it...

Wearing a shirt like that says that you want to have a conversation about America and its problems. Don't be surprised when someone takes you up on it. :shrug:

What did you expect?

[whathehell]

39. Maybe..But not, I'd guess, as most would have interpreted it.

Wearing a shirt like that first tells them "I AGREE with you and NOT the Americans who voted for Bush".

Did it "invite conversation"..Probably. Did it "invite" rude anti-American rants?...NO, and I'm afraid

the other non-Americans agreed.

[bettyellen]

44. that smeone who agreed would commiserate instead of attack?

[Cid_B]

45. Some but not all..

Human nature says there will be some who will enjoy seeing someone grovel. Gives em a feeling of power.

[CreekDog]

62. Political conversations are usually less hostile with Europeans and Canadians than with Americans

Certainly the ones I've had either with Canadians and Europeans or in their countries.

I was in Canada in 2003 after we invaded Iraq. A soldier struck up a conversation about it and very respectfully asked me why America had invaded Iraq (he was quite proud Canada had not) and he also respectfully, again, asked why such a good candidate like Al Gore didn't win in 2000. I told him these were things that bothered me about America and my thinking was more in line with his --oh and Al Gore actually got more votes in 2000, for what it's worth.

Meanwhile, friends here in California that same year, were telling me I shouldn't have gone to Canada because they didn't support us in Iraq. (SMH)

The conversations, and I've had many, either in other countries or with people from there, is almost always more respectful and dignified than are political conversations with Americans.

And to you comment about feeling powerful, I've found this more a characteristic of Americans, especially American conservatives who are constantly focused on being manly, being tough, not being "gay", not being feminine, not being liberal ("weak" in their minds), being patriotic (when Bush is president -to support foreign fiascos), etc. Many conservatives think their political positions are based on the Bible and treat those of us who disagree with their positions as devils.

[WildNovember]

115. I think to a certain extent people are more likely to "get into it" with people of their

"in-group" rather than outsiders.

If you're talking to another american on your home turf you expect them to "get it" and don't feel as much need to be formal/civil as you would talking to a non-american on non-american turf, or even talking to foreigners you don't know well on american turf -- you can put disagreements down to their ignorance so give them some latitude, and they also are likely to be on good behavior as a "guest" in a strange place.

I think.

Because I think the people we are most likely to "get into it" with on politics is family -- in general, we can take more liberties with them & still be forgiven, and also we often have the wish/expectation/hope that they'll see things as we do.

I've never been treated rudely by non-americans discussing politics/culture/etc. But I do know that I have likely stepped on toes in those discussions (and vice-versa) -- but my "sins were covered" so to speak because I was an outsider and not expected to know better.

[lunatica]

97. I used to think that if I went to Europe I would wear a T-shirt

With Bush's face inside the red circle with a diagonal line going through it, across his face. That's pretty universal. I figured any American wearing that would get free drinks everywhere.

I grew up in Mexico and look like an American so lots of people reacted to me in a negative way at first sight, until I opened my mouth and started talking in perfect Spanish (I was there from the age of 2). At that point their attitudes towards me did a 360. People really do like meeting the antithesis of the Ugly American.

[whathehell]

106. But you can see I did the same, and it wasn't entirely helpful

Face it...There's a lot of unhappy people who WANT to believe in the "ugly American"..or the "ugly Somebody"

I heard PLENTY of negative stereotypes of Euros by OTHER Euros when I was abroad...Midlle Eastern Muslims

came in for some nice slams as well.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how your story would prove anything about the "antithesis of the Ugly American" as

it sounds like they thought you were Spanish, if not Mexican.

And no offense, but, since when do Americans "look" a particular way?:shrug:

[lunatica]

116. Well for one thing they told me

And the way you look American is to be blond and blue-eyed. Now there are plenty of Europeans who look that way too, and they are also thought to be Americans if they aren't speaking.

Of course what would I know right? I only lived there for the first 25 years of my life.

[whathehell]

121. So they think all Americans are "blonde and blue-eyed"?

Oh my...Looks like they're a tad off on many things, doesn't it?:eyes:

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

124. So insulting people is your way of saying "I don't like your opinion"?

That's too bad, dear, as we actually HAVE

a system in place that doesn't violate the rules

as you're doing...It's called "Remembering

that 'ignore' is your friend"..Get it?

Buh bye:hi:

[whathehell]

125. Self-delete.

[Cid_B]

123. AHHH! CAN"T RESIST....

If they did a 360 then they are right back where they started.

[pnwmom]

6. That certainly seemed to be the case in the witch-hunt

against Amanda Knox.

She had an Italian co-defendant, but most of the slurs and hate talk were directed at her.

One of the police investigators even said that he knew she was guilty a few days after the murder, when he saw her eating pizza in a restaurant. A good Italian woman would be at home, he said, crying her eyes out -- not eating pizza.

Of course, Amanda no longer had a home, and she had to eat. But in their eyes, she wasn't behaving as a proper Italian woman supposedly would.

[MichaelMcGuire]

27. //Amanda Knox//

I agree with you there. With the press it was pretty much a witch hunt.

[Darth_Kitten]

67. Amanda Knox is no innocent.

She brought on most of her problems herself. Not to worry about her, her backers and apologists made sure she got off lightly for what she did.

[whathehell]

79. Really?....Then you should argue that to the Italian courts since they found otherwise.

Her corrupt prosecutor, Mignini, was already under indictment for abuse of power when he tried her case and has

since been found guilty. His bullshit case against Knox and Solectio was blown to hell and that's why they

were both released.

[MilesColtrane]

7. It is not common on this site.

There used to be a couple of ex-pats who never missed a chance to tell those who still lived here what wankers we were, but they eventually got tombstoned for trying to tear down the Democratic party at every turn.

Only been to Singapore recently in real life and they are, in a lot of ways, more American than Americans...highly consumer oriented with an authoritarian government, so they had no problems with me.

[JustAnotherGen]

8. Only in Ireland

Circa 2004, 2005. I explained to them I was a Democratic, not a Republican and where were they and the UN when not one, but two major elections had such irregularities and everyone fell into line to murder Iraqis?and it shut them up. And they laughed and said I was right.


Now I had great convo at a dinner party in Ramatuelle France in May 2007 (day Sarko won) and had to EXPLAIN that America was a divided country and they needed to know that quite a few of us did not lockstep and goose step wit the Bush Cabal. But our media and their media worked together to keep us at odds with each other. I also reminded them that they gave "birth" to us :rofl: so we are their errant child and they encouraged our obnoxious behavior years ago and well . . . Who do you blame whe your kid is a brat?

The point is - that spoken dislike can be addressed in a fun manner - and can start a dialogue with people that if you are at DU - you probably have a ton in common with.


And having met my future Calabrese family in Italy earlier this month? They don't hate Americans and Amanda Knox is not a Gage of that. She's a non starter. They are a bit more concerned with their tourism from Great Britain than they are the US / US Relations. As well they should be . . . And there is no Proper Italian Woman behavior. Different regions and mores have different expectations. Calabrese women say things like: When the woman is listening the man should be quiet.

Tuscans are according to the Southerners there - cold and snotty. All you learned from the Meredith Kercher murder case was that the Mafia in that region runs things, and that the folks in that area get dressed up to eat Fried fish on Friday. That's when we are ugly Americans. Because rest assured this NY raised girl,
now residing in NJ was pretty pod at the French media showing video of the Klan from the 1930's to represent ALL Americans when the Jena 6 crap went down. If we don't like being painted with broad brushstrokes, then we ought not be doing the same.

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. having lived abroad most of my life I have run into a sense of absolute cultural superiority from

some smug Europeans including British as well as a number of Canadians and some Australians - although certainly not the majority. Amazingly in my 25 years in the Middle East I almost never ran into anything except politeness and hospitality - regardless what they thought of America's political policies. For that matter, I have to say that having lived in the Philippines where America has a horrendous record of crimes against humanity - almost everyone just gushes with goodwill toward America and Americans.

But as far as bigotry toward Americans this I have only found in other western countries - it is a minority, but a significant minority - and this usually has absolutely nothing to do with any political disagreement - just a sense of total cultural and intellectual superiority. I have to admit that certainly on average there is no other western country and few third world countries where general knowledge about things like history, geography, politics and current events is as low as it is in America. Even an average Middle Eastern high school student would have a much better grasp of this kind of general knowledge than the vast overwhelming majority of American university graduates. Still I have run into some British, Europeans, Canadians and some Australians who will prejudge Americans and assume that we are all ignoramuses even when they are not that well informed themselves.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Agree on the Cultural Superiority thing

They DO like to make fun of our hamburgers and hot dogs and Mickey D's thing we go going on here - in contrast to their 'art and history' is everywhere mentality. Mostly found this in France, Italy, and Belgium though! :rofl:

[MichaelMcGuire]

80. hot dogs

To be fair, now that you mention it and the more I think about this texture-less and tasteless slong (meat?) the more I get is irrational dislike.... But since you've got such bonny landscape I'll let you off. :)

[Dorian Gray]

95. Yes

Most countries have no leg to stand on politically. They all ebb and flow from conservative to liberal. They all have positives and NEGATIVES. Living overseas, the only "bigotry" I experienced (and I use that word loosely) was a certain ribbing for being uncouth and uncultured. "Only 5% of Americans have passports. Why are you so Untraveled?" type of criticisms.

The Brits were particularly bad, but a lot of it was done sort of jokingly over beers.

They do think we're rubes.

Of course, I lived overseas from 1994 until 1999, so it was pre-Bush era.

[Swede]

23. Outside the USA,,we are inundated with Jersey Shore,Jackass

and Jay Leno's Jaywalking,which doesn't paint a good picture. So if someone is lacking in either education or actual interaction with Americans,some may get a wrong impression. Others are just idiots,or actually bigots.

[MichaelMcGuire]

32. To be truthful

Most of my off-line interactions with American's have been positive.... (I sometimes hostel) Well behaved. I don't know if its because with me being Scottish and what not. I tend not to go into long discussions about politics or foreign policy and the like, and hopefully I don't get too many questions about haggis or possible inter-clan relations we may share. Not that I'm not interested in these, just strange I'm being consulted like a oracle.

[Proud Public Servant]

10. I lived abroad 2000-2010

In several different countries. My impression is that, when people say they hate Americans, they really mean they hate the policies of the American government or the corrosive effects of US-based capitalism. Once they discover I agree with them, they like Americans a lot more.

[mattclearing]

18. That is my experience as well. n/t

[whathehell]

11. Are you kidding?....It's common on this site, even from some Americans.

Sad to say, there quite a few here who seem to think being

being "anti" themselves, if you will, boosts their progressive "cred".:eyes:

[marmar]

31. ........

:boring:

[whathehell]

40. Yeah...Back at ya.

:hi:

[pipi_k]

54. Maybe...maybe not...

I'm more middle-of-the-road Democrat, so I have no "progressive cred" to try and boost.

But even I think we Americans suck sometimes.

[whathehell]

82. Everybody sucks sometimes.

[Quantess]

13. I've been here in Europe for 6 months now

and nobody has given me any attitude for having an American accent.
One frequent comment though, is "But you aren't fat at all".

[JustAnotherGen]

20. no subject

:rofl: Where are you in Europe?

[Quantess]

49. The greater Stockholm area.

I'm not kidding, either. I can't even tell you how many Swedes mention that I am suprisingly NOT fat.

[JustAnotherGen]

75. I got that

In France quite a bit! :rofl: and in rural Southern Spain they couldn't believe I was black. Then I'd explain the Family Dynamic and they would say - Aaaaaaaah Mulata! ;-)

[MichaelMcGuire]

26. "But you aren't fat at all"

The cheeky sod lol

[Quantess]

52. Most of them who say that are women, during conversation!

A couple of immigrant students in my Swedish class said that to me also. But everyone has been really friendly, in general. It helps that I can speak the language.

Edit to say "really friendly" is not the best way to describe swedes. More like, pleasant and charming.

[MichaelMcGuire]

58. conversation

With Swedish babes?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

30. lol

:spray:

[Lyric]

14. Sadly, yes.

I don't mind criticisms of government policy; god knows we do plenty of that ourselves. But some of the dismissive, smug, oh-so-superior comments are just obnoxious. I find it particularly irritating when Australians, Brits and Canadians decide to bash "American culture" in comparison to their own--as if there's one homogenous culture here OR there. As if people deserve to be bullied and ridiculed for their country of birth.

Rhythm's daughter is an Australian citizen, and has lived there for half of her life. She had to put up with nasty comments and bullying in school (she was taken there when she was 12, by her father) because she was a "Yank". It got to the point where she had to switch schools and tell the other kids that she was Canadian in order to get the abuse to stop. Even then, she STILL had to hear nasty comments about "Yanks" from people who are supposedly soooo much more "culturally evolved" than we are, and if she didn't join in, people called her a filthy "Yank lover". Children don't come up with that stuff on their own--they learn it from their bigoted parents. This was not rural Australia; this was in one of the biggest cities in the nation. Imagine what those kids must be hearing at home, if they're going to school and hurting a little girl just because they don't like her country of origin. How is that ANY DIFFERENT than the behavior by American bigots that these bullies claim to find so disgusting?

This issue is kind of personal for our family, I admit. Find me a caring adult that WOULDN'T be horrified and angry about something like this happening to their child. Some of the stereotypes that other nations heap upon all Americans abroad are extremely unfair. We are NOT all a bunch of racist, Teabagging, ignorant, obese rednecks. It's like people abroad think that the absolute WORST American cultural stereotypes are somehow representative of the majority here, when that's not the case at all. We don't assume that ALL Australian people are kangaroo-chomping, beer-swilling, crocodile-wrestling, America-hating bigots and bullies. We don't even assume that most of them are. I do wish that more citizens of ALL nations would take a stand against xenophobia and bigotry, but there will always be a few assholes willing to piss in the soup I guess.

Bottom line: are there ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic people in America? Yes there are. Are there ignorant, bigoted, xenophobic people in Britain, Australia, and Canada? Yes there are. Should we pass judgement upon entire nations full of people based on the worst stereotypes of their most assholish and outrageous citizens? Of course not. It's cruel, it's unfair, and it hurts people.

[whathehell]

86. Thanks, Lyric.

I've been trying to tell some of the self-bashers here that prejudice is hardly an "American" thing.

Thanks for sharing your story...What your daughter is going through sounds horrific...I wish you the

best of luck in countering it...Please give her our hugs and sympathy.:grouphug:

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

15. Bigotry amongst Americans is common... if that's what your talking about.

[whathehell]

22. That's not what he's talking about...and btw, bigotry among Europeans

is probably a lot higher than you think..I've experienced THAT first hand too.

[Quantess]

59. Someone, somewhere along the way has hurt you deeply.

A european person. Maybe it was more than one european person who was especially nasty to you. That is sad, and I hope you can get past it somehow.

[MichaelMcGuire]

60. LOL

[Quantess]

63. Maybe you aren't familiar with

whathehell, but I am. She is a one-note.

[MichaelMcGuire]

69. Apologies

[MichaelMcGuire]

61. I think the general rule *is* theres a**holes in all walks of life.

Don't worry if your ever in my neck of the woods
I'll buy you a beer.

[whathehell]

85. Sorry, Ignored

I guess you don't get around much.B-)

[WinkyDink]

17. And we would know this how, living IN America?

[PassingFair]

24. Some people step outside our borders once in a while.

That's how.

[WinkyDink]

91. I've been to Europe over 10 times, Morocco once, Canada four or five. I find the OP's WORDING

to be SADLY INEPT: Bad punctuation; bad spelling; and unreadable syntax.

HENCE, my query.

[Codeine]

34. When we visit other places, obviously. nt

[whathehell]

48. I would know this because I have LIVED in Europe and traveled extensively

but since you bring it up, you might consider asking the same of some Euros

who have strong opinions about the US, considering that they live IN Europe

and are LESS likely to have traveled to our country then we've been to theirs.

[Karenina]

53. "and are LESS likely to have traveled to our country then we've been to theirs."

I call ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT on this assertion. :wtf:

[Quantess]

71. I would instead ask her "what the hell" happened

in her interactions with europeans that was so traumatic. Obviously something unpleasant happened.

[whathehell]

81. Well, of COURSE you do!

Tell it to American diplomats and the U.S. Tourist Board.:eyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12273325/

[Karenina]

107. Page not found... Error 404

[whathehell]

108. Yes, that happens some times.

[WinkyDink]

92. See my post abpout MY extensive travels. What have they got to do with the OP?

The OP NEVER MENTIONS "BIGOTRY FROM WHOM".

It is EXTREMELY poorly worded.

[whathehell]

113. Um...

Don't you mean "poorly worded in the extreme"?:rofl:

[Spider Jerusalem]

119. Europeans are somewhat more likely to've been to America than the converse, actually

simply because there are twice as many Europeans, for a start, and far more Europeans than Americans have passports. More Europeans visit America than Americans visit Europe every year. An individual random European is more likely to have been to the US than an American is to have been to Germany or France or the Netherlands or Italy or Spain or Britain (because Europe is about the same size as the US and comprises about as many countries as the US has states).

[whathehell]

135. The proportion of Europeans traveling to the US can't be gauged from their population

or number of passports. In addition, because of the EU, Europeans don't need passports to travel throughput most of the continent anymore.


They also don't need as much time or money to travel throughout Europe, since, on average, they get a lot more vacation time

than Americans, and don't have the long flight over the ocean, as do Americans.

Reportedly, Five percent of Americans hold passports, but since America is comprised of over 300 million people,

this amounts to about fifteen million American passport holders.

[whathehell]

136. Self-delete

[PeaceNikki]

28. Bigotry against American's what?

Sorry, that misplaced apostrophe bothered me. :P

[MichaelMcGuire]

37. Grammar nazi's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM

LOL jk

[PeaceNikki]

38. Correction: Grammar Gestapo

;)

[MichaelMcGuire]

41. :)

[WinkyDink]

93. Exactly.

[TBF]

29. That is nothing new - my British husband has made comments for years

I think the "loud American tourist" thing has been out there awhile. Folks in Europe seem to be less individualistic. Just my impressions. Americans can have big hearts too, but you'll find the biggest ones well outside of the 1% obviously.

[whathehell]

43. If he's still making comments about the "loud American tourist"..He should see what the Euros

think about the "Loud British Tourist"...They've been criticized for years "on the continent" for that -- loud, drunken behavior on

the Greek islands, etc., earning the title "Worst Tourists in the World" for at least three years straight...They have, however, been eclipsed

in recent years by the French.B-)

[Codeine]

33. Bigotry against extraneous apostrophes should be more common. nt

[uriel1972]

35. I can confirm this from the Australian side

However if you don't go looking like I did for sane, reasonable USA citiziens in the media you tend not to find them. Generally Americans are judged by their television and foriegn/commercial policies. The worst ones. The cultural expansionism we experience is real and quite a cause of dissent. The more and more big companies import USA ideas and products, the more and more we feel like living in an occupied country. Resentment and jealousy are real and I guess the cause of much bigotry.

I'm not trying to excuse it. It's as wrong as all bigotry, just trying to explain it.

[whathehell]

46. Interesting...

Although you're saying that "if you don't go looking, like I did, for sane, reasonable USA citizens in the media you tend not to find them" makes me wonder
if that's not because that's all that Aussie television presents.....Another suggestion might be not judging "all Americans" by those in the media.

As to your statement: "The more and more big companies import USA ideas and products, the more and more we feel like living in an occupied country. Resentment and jealousy are real and I guess the cause of much bigotry".

This sounds like the old "cultural imperialism" charge we've been hearing for ages from other countries as well, and I must say, I've always found it

lame for this reason...If a country doesn't want American ideas and products, isn't it the responsiblity of the RECEIVING government and/or companies to reject them?...No one is holding a gun to their heads, are they?

[TheKentuckian]

68. I think there are substantial sticks and carrots that more than encourage and prod

as much as any gun can.

Not playing ball results in rather serious and onerous blow back. What happens to those who reject our financial system? Also, populations are forced to the extremes of Revolution to stop or even limit assimilation because in these questions, elections do not matter nor does mass protest, strikes, or riots.

[whathehell]

77. That could be, but the claim would need more

in the way of certainty and specifics in order to discuss it properly.

That being said, I don't know what serious "blow back" individuals would face should they simply refuse to consume the American product.

In terms of Australians relating to Americans, though, I think one could draw a comparison with the U.S. and China...I don't particularly like the majority of our goods being made in China. I'd rather they be made here.

With that, I don't hold people from China individually responsible for the trade and manufacturing policies of our two countries.

[saras]

73. So you're asserting that OUR government does exactly what WE want it to do, all the time?

It's really common, unfortunately, for governments to ally with multinational corporations (that is, with "US" economic interests) against their own people. It's not like the United States is the only country this has ever happened to.

[whathehell]

76. No, not at all.

I think you misread the post.

[Codeine]

36. I spent a month in London once.

Nearly everyone was cordial and polite except a group of builders who were in the breakfast room of our B&B in Earl's Court. They tried to wind us up with some nasty comments but got bored when we wouldn't take the bait. Everyone else happily took our money and allowed us to enjoy their museums/restaurants/shops in peace.

[lunatica]

51. I imagine in that case that you were respectful to the country you were visiting

I'm a US citizen who grew up in Mexico. Lots of Americans were loud and demanding and felt superior and entitled to special treatment just because they were Americans. That is, Americans from the US, not Central or South Americans. This idea that everyone in the Americas is an American is shocking news to most US Citizens.

[Arugula Latte]

55. Ugh. I've witnessed some toe-curling behavior from fellow Americans in Mexico.

It is just embarrassing, and depressing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. - given the sense of cultural superiority that Europeans, Canadians and Australians already have

- imagine how much more that is reinforced when the Republican's "who can sound the craziest competitions" come on T.V. or they get a glimpse of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity. I wish Americans could realize that when they make excuses for the likes of Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly or Michelle Bachmann, Newt Gingrich or Rick Perry - they are behaving in an utterly unpatriotic manner by reinforcing the unfair and most vile and negative stereotypes of the much maligned "ugly American."

[YellowRubberDuckie]

47. I am bigoted against disrespectful, stupid people...

...unfortunately, I happen to live in Oklahoma where those people are the most common. =)

[lunatica]

50. Hell yes, and it's not like there isn't a reason for it either

We're perceived as an Empire in the world. Especially in countries on our own Continent.

Oh! And the perception isn't erroneous.

[Arugula Latte]

56. I agree. I can't blame people for being anti-American.

The bottom line is we're the country most likely to invade you, either openly or by proxy, and bomb the shit out of your brown people, "disappear" your leftists, assassinate your leaders if they won't toe the U.S. corporate line, and take over your resources and leave your environment in shambles. And most Americans, if they're aware of what's going on, don't really care and won't do anything to try to stop it.

[whathehell]

65. Yeah, Empires are largely unpopular.

The average citizen of such empires, however, is rarely very responsible for the ways

in which said empire's power is used.

[Arugula Latte]

72. However, they tend to not demand an end to empire.

Instead, millions cheer when we bomb the towelheads. That's the mentality of a vast swath of this country.

[whathehell]

83. Sorry if you don't like my answer, Ignored.

Feel free to put on the sack cloth and ashes, if you'd like.

[lunatica]

96. He/she was agreeing with you

and adding a good point. But I do wonder why people hide their profiles. That always brings up a question mark for me. Though I'm sure there are some perfectly good reasons to do so.

[whathehell]

101. Well, that's nice to hear.

Unfortunately, had this person and I (don't know who it is) not had a history of mutual antagonism,

I wouldn't have put them on my Ignore list and so what can I say?.:shrug:

I've long regretted the decision to hide my profile and would un-hide it in a New York minute

if I knew how...If you or anyone else knows how to change it, I'll be glad to do so

[lunatica]

118. Actually I was referring to ignored hiding his/her profile

I guess you could ask the administrators.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=437

[whathehell]

120. Thanks, Lunatica.n/t

[pink-o]

57. I've traveled all through Europe, lived in London for 5 years in the 70s

And I've found that there are stereotypes, of course, but that's par for the course from all Europeans about us and each other. The Germans are anti-Brit, the French are anti-German and anti-Brit, the Italians are anti-German, the Spanish are anti-French, the Brits themselves are anti-Irish/French/German blah blah blah.

And truly, people from everywhere embody the "Ugly" stereotype, including us Yanks, but we got nuthin' on the Brits insisting their tea be brewed just right (In Croatia, I might add) or the Germans pounding on tables because they didn't get what they want, or the French looking down their noses because they feel the folks around them just aren't sophisticated enough. Our own stereotype is Cultural Ignorance, loud speaking voices, stepping figuratively on everyone's toes and being basically clueless we're acting obnoxiously, so maybe we have more to answer for.

But I've never found anyone blaming me for America's political disasters, our hideous presidents like Nixon, Reagan and Junior. Europeans know the dif between a country's politics and its people. And truly, some Americans can learn from that!

[Imajika]

66. Nope...

Traveled over the world, lived in Asia for a long time, etc, and have never experienced anything aside from good-natured joking from time to time.

When I lived in Thailand back a few years ago my good Australian expat friends loved to poke fun about what an idiot Bush was, but they couldn't say too much considering at the time their nation elected conservative John Howard like 4 times straight.

Have never had a problem with anti-American bias against me in Europe, Asia or anywhere else.

[TheKentuckian]

70. Certainly far less of an issue than the reverse.

I don't see where we have much room too worry about it and what would appear to be the dominant culture even from our own media is not going to bolster outside opinion.

Seriously, from our own mass culture and much of our government activities, most folks would prefer to have the Vogans as neighbors.

I don't know how we have as positive of an image in the world as we enjoy.

How would you think of the US based on our mass media, our foreign policy, our elected officials, and our corrupt financial system including the IMF and World Bank cast against our own brand of nonsensical exceptionalisim.

I think we do far better than should be expected, objectively considering the levels at which we export our worst.

[whathehell]

87. Umm...Maybe not....Read Lyric's story.

You can bash our "mass culture" all you want, until you actually avail yourself

of the mass culture of other countries and find (as I did) that's it's little better

and sometimes worse.

In addition, you'd have to explain, if our mass culture is so terrible,

why so MUCH of it is paid for and enjoyed by citizens of those "superior" cultures.

For starters, try going to Amazon.co.uk to see just how much U.S. culture --

films, television, music -- is actively SOUGHT and consumed.

I can assure you that you'll get a decidedly different picture

than the one you now imagine.

Unlike yourself, I don't believe in American Exceptionalism on EITHER side of the good/bad equation.

[MichaelMcGuire]

90. Soft power of cinema?

///In addition, you'd have to explain, if our mass culture is so terrible,

why so MUCH of it is paid for and enjoyed by citizens of those "superior" cultures.

For starters, try going to Amazon.co.uk to see just how much U.S. culture --

films, television, music -- is actively SOUGHT and consumed.//

http://www.france24.com/en/20110625-economic-warfare-on-the-silver-screen-cinema-cannes-festival-2011-hollywood-france

[whathehell]

102. I don't know of any "power" that can make someone

buy something they don't like.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

74. I traveled extensively in Europe during the Bush years

and clarifying that I was from California tended to defuse most any situation.

In one particular encounter this French guy was getting in my face, and after hearing the word "California" softened and said "Ahh... you're from the land of pot and pussy" - he considered that a good thing.

[whathehell]

84. Just read your profile..

Sounds like your guy was the "real" Frenchman the rest of the world loves to hate.

[whathehell]

114. How about dick and doobie?

Who knew anti-Americanism could be so easily assuaged, LOl?:shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

78. I've been accused here at DU of being bigoted against Americans...

That person took my strong dislike of American foreign policy and jingoistic patriotism as being bigotry against Americans, which it wasn't. I've travelled, and in Europe I encountered a few Ugly American tourists, but they were far outnumbered by really warm-hearted and nice Americans. And while I've never been to the US, I have it on good authority that even some of the Ugly Americans can be very nice and hospitable on their home turf.

I think some Americans mistake the mostly good natured piss-taking that they encounter in Australia for being bigotry. We call them Yanks and make fun of them, but it's rare I see it cross from that into nasty bigotry and generalisations. I do sometimes slide into generalisations, like Americans tend to be way too sensitive and get too hung up on wanting everyone to like them (if I'd had just one more apologise to me personally when Bush was elected I would have exploded) and their sense of humour is too clumsy and blunt, and they live in a gun worshipping and litigation happy culture, but I'm aware they're stereotypes and many Americans aren't like that at all.

Besides, there's far more bigotry towards us than towards Americans!

on edit: Is it bigoted to just not like American accents? Apart from people who live in Seattle, coz I've Skyped with two DUers from there and found their accents pleasantly mellow and easy on the ear. Most of the rest just sounds harsh and grindy, though....

[whathehell]

88. Perhaps you should read Lyric's story about her daughter's ongoing experience in Australia.

As for the question on accents, you might want to turn it around and ask yourself it it's "bigoted"

to just not like Australian accents...Apart from those from the Perth area,

I find Aussie accents to be amazingly similar to how you describe those of Americans,

and so, it so happens, did the people from Perth!:shrug:

[Violet_Crumble]

89. I did. When I was at school my German friend got bullied...

Kids got bullied for anything slightly different than the 'norm', and she'd get called a Nazi, get picked on coz her packed lunch wasn't on white bread and was 'foreign', and made fun of coz she could speak fluent German. Incidents of school bullying, while traumatic and something that should be stopped by the school itself, aren't indicative of widespread bigotry.

btw, on accents, we don't have regional accents. Someone in Sydney sounds exactly the same as someone on the other side of the country in Perth. 99% of the time I don't hear any accent at all, though the time I did when I walked through Sydney airport after being in Europe and heard the accent all around me, I thought it was horrible and was appalled that this is what I sound like too...

[whathehell]

99. Kids are bullied everywhere for many things, but I do think Lyric's story sounds worse than most.

As to your not having regional accents, I can only conclude this to be in dispute,

as my friend from Perth thought much the opposite.

[Romulox]

105. How is Australia substantively different from the US? The worst American in the world is an Aussie.

:shrug:

[WinkyDink]

94. "defending Americans posters from attacks" WTH DOES THIS MEAN?

[Violet_Crumble]

98. It means you Yanks are too wussy to defend yrselves and need foreign intervention n/t

;)

[whathehell]

103. That would be rich...

coming from either Oz OR the "motheland".:P

[Romulox]

104. A LOT of it is deserved.

/as apple pie

[whathehell]

111. Bullshit....a "lot" of it is pure bigotrry....Read Lyric's story and tell me how "deserved" that is

If an American did that to a foreigner here, you'd be frothing at the mouth.

[Romulox]

126. I have a story too, you know.

I was picked on throughout my school years. By Americans.

So what do anecdotes prove?

[whathehell]

129. "I was picked on throughout my school years. By Americans"

and you're asking, "So what do anecdotes prove?

In the context of this thread, the meaning of your anecdote would seem to depend on whether or not you're American;

If you're not, it could point to national bigotry on the part of those picking on you. If you are, it seems

another case of kids bullying each other for reasons not related to national origin.:shrug:

[Romulox]

132. I was born in Michigan.

"another case of kids bullying each other for reasons not related to national origin."

And therefore it's "not as bad"? Is that what you're implying? :shrug:

[whathehell]

133. Great

I was born in Pennsylvania and, like millions of kids, was also "bullied" in school.

Both facts are irrelevant to our discussion here, unless you imagine

schoolyard bullying to be an "American" invention.:eyes:

[Romulox]

137. "Irrelevant", my eye. "Extremely inconvenient to my argument," you surely mean.

"schoolyard bullying to be an "American" invention."

Nobody made that argument; however YOU argued that Lyric's anecdote was somehow telling. Why isn't MY anecdote just as valid? Answer: because it doesn't support your preconceived notions. :hi:

[whathehell]

140. No, dear, it's extraneous to the argument and I'm sorry you're having such a hard time understanding

what I believe would be obvious to someone

not so determined to "win".B-)

[LanternWaste]

127. I imagine one story is the equivalent of a "lot" if it validates one's own biases.

I imagine one story is the equivalent of a "lot" if it validates one's own biases.

[whathehell]

128. I imagine it might, but then it would apply to Romulux's theory too, wouldn't it?

:shrug:

[Romulox]

131. Right. Hence the aphorism, "The plural of anecdote is not data." nt

[whathehell]

134. I have to give you credit

for trying.:rofl:

[Romulox]

138. I think it's pretty obvious you didn't understand my response.

You don't even know what you're trying to argue, at this point.

[whathehell]

139. I think it's pretty obvious that this is what you were hoping for, LOL

it's not at all "obvious" that you achieved it,

given that my vocabulary includes the words "aphorism" "anecdotes" and "data".


Try again.:evilgrin:

[_eh]

109. No: "Bigotry" against certain American ADMINISTRATIONS is common!

bush (cough) cheney

[whathehell]

130. YES: That negativity against the administrations often "spills over" onto the citizens themselves.

As an American, I've seen it, heard it, and experienced it first hand.

As one I met drolly remarked: "They must think I sit on the Security Council".

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. Not all stereotypes are inaccurate. n/t

[whathehell]

112. No...and that's not the point.

Let's just say some stereotypes are "convenient" for some people.

[slackmaster]

117. American's common what what?

:crazy: