I think people are confusing Naomi Wolf with Naomi Klein. I'm pretty sure of this.

[NYC_SKP]

OK, similar names, they both get arrested, they even look a little bit alike.

Naomi Klein

is a sort of hero to me and to progressive causes.

She supports unions and the 99% and even gets arrested helping us to move forward.



She writes for a well-respected publication called "The Nation": http://www.thenation.com/authors/naomi-klein

http://www.thenation.com/blog/163861/naomi-klein-occupy-wall-street-shock-resistance

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-most-important-thing-world-now

Naomi Wolf

is another author and well-known figure.

She gets arrested sometimes, and she talks a lot. She was arrested after attending a Huffington Post event for Andrew Cuomo at Skylight Studios in Manhattan (I think it was for the cameras).

She was married to and has children with David Shipley, current editor of "Bloomberg View" and former Op-Ed editor of the New York Times.

She now writes for some weird Internet Bloggy mess called "The Huffington Post": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf

Sometimes, Naomi Wolf is on Fox News!



The Nation magazine has had more than one article about Naomi Wolf, like this one:

..."Naomi Wolf: Wrong Again on Rape" http://www.thenation.com/blog/157601/naomi-wolf-wrong-again-rape

Naomi Wolf wrote a silly speculative article for "The Guardian" that was filled with make-believe, and a LOT of people believed every word of it!

It's TRUE! NO, I mean that people believe it, not the article itself, that's false! :P

Or, well, without any evidence, let's say!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The "Learning" Part:

There's plenty to be pissed off about right now, without buying into bullshit conspiracy theory "DHS is behind this" sorts of silliness!

Let's just be angry that the 1% have more than 40% of the Wealth!

Isn't that enough?

Do we have to go out there and look silly saying things that sound as crazy as the FEMA Camps theories espoused by many on the right?

Do we?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In conclusion:

Naomi Klein = Smart Progressive Hero.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...Naomi Wolf = Huffington Poster

THIS: . . NOT THIS:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:patriot:

[Luminous Animal]

1. Wolf is a lightweight. Klein is the real deal.

Wolf is from the "someone says" school of journalism.

Klein is "here is the evidence" school of journalism.

[provis99]

2. Klein's the skinny one. Wolf's the one with Big Hair.

[robinlynne]

24. backwards.

[SidDithers]

3. I think you're right...nt

Sid

[lonestarnot]

35. So do I.

[Prometheus Bound]

4. Oh crap. I'm so glad you posted this.

I'm embarrassed I was one of the ones who got them confused. What a relief that you clarified this. I mean it. It's a huge relief. I listened to Naomi Wolf in an interview thinking she was Naomi Klein because the website that sent me there said it was Naomi Klein. Naomi Klein has long been one of my heroes and when I saw the interview I lost a huge amount of respect for her. Oh man, what a relief.

[NYC_SKP]

8. I was kind of getting them confused myself!

And it was interesting how much I learned.

Naomi Klein is awesome, I really respect her.

Naomi Wolf is all mixed up with the Huffington, NYTimes, Bloomberg world and her arrest (allegedly in support of OWS) was quite the fortunate accident, happening right after a Huffpost event where I suspect she wanted to be arrested to make some news for herself and earn some (phoney) credibility.

:puke:

[Prometheus Bound]

10. I've read her work but never watched videos of her.

So I was easily fooled. I respect Naomi Klein so much I named my 4-month-old daughter Naomi. When I saw that interview I wondered how I could have got her so wrong. It didn't make any sense. Yes, Naomi Wolf is a waste of time.

Thanks again NYC_SKP!

[Warren DeMontague]

5. I think you're right.

Thanks.

[aletier_v]

6. You're right

I keep getting them mixed up.

Klein is the smart one, Wolfe is the cute one. :)

[lunatica]

7. thank you!

I can't believe I didn't know this.

Thanks! I had been upset all day not wanting to believe Naomi Klein would lie. Whew! She didn't!

[tavalon]

9. Nope,we're talking about an article she wrote about OWS

Naomi Wolf wrote Shock Doctrine as well. And her current article in the Guardian is the most talked about article of the day. If I we're on my son's indecipherable machine, I would give you a link.

[Prometheus Bound]

11. I believe you're wrong. Naomi Wolf did not write 'The Shock Doctrine'.

[tavalon]

16. I think you may be right about The Shock Doctrine, but she definitely wrote

The OWS article that has been making the rounds here.

[madmom]

12. Naomi Kline wrote Shock Doctrine. I have the book setting right in front of me as I

type. So unless there is another book with the same name, you are wrong.

[WinkyDink]

52. Klein.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. No that was Naomi Klein (shock doctrine)

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/the-book

[Luminous Animal]

15. Naomi Wolf did not write the Shock Doctrine. Naomi Klein did.

[valerief]

18. Naomi KLEIN wrote Shock Doctrine. nt

[NYC_SKP]

20. You're killin' me!, PROOF that people are confused--- LOL! Naomi KLEIN wrote "Shock Doctrine".

Oh, man, my sides!

:rofl:

Naomi Wolf said, "The shielding of sex-crime accusers is a Victorian relic. Women are moral adults and should be treated as such".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/05/julian-assange-sex-crimes-anonymity

Naomi Wolf wrote some books, like The Beauty Myth:



She's no Naomi Klein!

:hi:

[tavalon]

32. Didja read where I corrected myself?

You're a day late and a dollar short. Naomi Wolfe is quite the activist now (since 9/11) and she wrote the article in The Guardian about why the are cracking down so hard on OWS.

[NYC_SKP]

37. "Quite the activist"? Sure, when it suits her vocation as popular person.

I guess she's got more on the ball than a Kardashian, but not nearly as much as the real progressive hero, Naomi Klein.

:hi:

[tavalon]

41. I'm not going to diss Naomi Klein. She is amazing

That said, you haven't been paying attention if you aren't aware of Noami Wolfe sounding the alarm about the Rise of American fascism. When I first started listening to her about a decade ago, I knew her as the beauty Myth fluffy book lady. I'm well past that and you appear to need some remedial reading. Both Naomis have activist chops.

[JNelson6563]

63. I saw a documentary of sorts

with Naomi Wolfe. Yeah, she was talking about the rise of fascism, all stuff we long ago identified here at DU. All good stuff and then she talked about having been suckered into believing Team Bush on Iraq and only after the fact did she realize it was all bullshit.

I thought if she didn't see that shit for what it was from the beginning (like countless of us did) then she is not necessarily someone I would consider all that brilliant. In fact I am still convinced only dumbasses and complete suckers fell for that crap.

Julie

[Raine1967]

42. Klein wrote the Shock Doctrine.

Wolf wrote the Guardian article.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. that is part of it

[October]

17. omg, you're right.

[valerief]

19. I wonder if people mix up John Boehner with Jon Bon Jovi.

:shrug:

[SidDithers]

21. See post #9...nt

Sid

[valerief]

30. I know the difference between the Naomis. I was making a ha ha. nt

[NYC_SKP]

22. If the two of them could have a love child they could name it "Jon Bon Boehner"!

:P

[Prometheus Bound]

23. Hey, come on. Stop picking on me!

[freshwest]

33. How dare you! See link: Bon Jovi Opens Charitable Pay-What-You-Can Restaurant In NJ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/jon-bon-jovis-charity-res_n_1020628.html

Oh, and get off my lawn!

:rofl:

[valerief]

39. What's that? Cut up my loan? I don't have a loan.

:spray:

[freshwest]

44. Okay! Now you did it!

:spank:

:rofl:

Good one.

[Zorra]

25. I did that at first.

That doesn't mean that Naomi Wolf was inaccurate.

[mojowork_n]

26. Yeah, but it gets blurry again, when you consider

Naomi (big hair) Wolf also wrote, "The End of America."

The Wiki sez:

In The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, Wolf takes a historical look at the rise of fascism, outlining the 10 steps necessary for a fascist group (or government) to destroy the democratic character of a nation-state and subvert the social/political liberty previously exercised by its citizens:

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy.
2. Create secret prisons where torture takes place.
3. Develop a thug caste or paramilitary force not answerable to citizens.
4. Set up an internal surveillance system.
5. Harass citizens' groups.
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release.
7. Target key individuals.
8. Control the press.
9. Treat all political dissidents as traitors.
10 Suspend the rule of law.

The book details how this pattern was implemented in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and elsewhere, and analyzes its emergence and application in American political affairs since the September 11 attacks...

She also wrote the 'Handbook for Revolutionaries', "Give Me Liberty" and stood for Julian Assange (on 'Democracy Now') when another
feminist suggested the allegations in Sweden should be taken seriously.

Short answer: no, she's not Naomi Klein, but she's also done some good things. Even if she does write for HuffPo.

Edit Add:

I think it gets blurrier when you consider the Guardian article in the Big Picture context of Naomi (BH) Wolf's other writing on
democracy, fascism, and the Patriot Act, and later D. of HL Sec..... Since Sept. 11th, when the Patriot Act was born overnight. Like Athena from the head of Zeus. Fully formed, developed, articulated to the last detail, in no time at all.

Is every word or claim or suspicion or allegation in her Guardian article *True* or provable or necessarily plausible?

No, but that's not a reason to dismiss them all out of hand. The push-back against OWS, the Fox News/Right Wing media/Big PR firm
campaign against the protests and protesters, as well as the similarities in the police responses in all the different cities, should all be weighed on the opposite side of the balance scale.

Not everything that's necessarily unprovable has to be 'untrue.'

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

34. Thanks for that..,

[NYC_SKP]

36. She also wrote "The shielding of sex-crime accusers is a Victorian relic. Women are moral adults..."

"The shielding of sex-crime accusers is a Victorian relic. Women are moral adults and should be treated as such"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/05/julian-assange-sex-crimes-anonymity

So I think she's a hack and an opportunist, and not always on the side of good, IMHO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wolf's book, "The End of America" was highly derivative, not at all original, IMO...Just off the top of my head I can identify a precursor to your list of ten, here:

Identifiers: An Examination of Fascism
Fascism Anyone? Laurence W. Britt

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 23, Number 2.

<snip>

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

<snip>

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/whitepapers/defining/identifiers_britt.htm

.

:patriot:

[mojowork_n]

46. It's a big subject..

Several writers have compiled a number of different lists.

You could also say Britt was borrowing form Orwell. Or many other writers both before and after WW 2.

But more bullet points in the list don't always add up to a more accurate description.

Number 2 in Britt's list, "disdain for human rights" for instance, doesn't distinguish a fascist (right-wing) totalitarianism, from others.


Britt's 14 points include

# 5.... Sexism rampant.
and
# 10.... Religion and ruling elite tied together.


Also not exactly always observable in every instance.
Ever seen "Evita," or heard of the League of German Maidens?

Many right wing totalitarian heirarchies specifically excluded religious leaders from the ruling elite, as they downplayed spiritual, moral and religious values, in general.

But I'm not trying to defend Wolf by complaining about Britt -- OK, yes I am, sort of -- only trying to make the point that it IS a big topic, with room for different writers to make their own interpretations. (I happen to think Wolf's list may be a little cleaner, and I really liked the 'Handbook for Revolutionaries.')

Is it really helpful to look for the worst things someone has written, to judge the whole body of work?

Maybe Naomi W. is a hack and opportunist -- I'm not sayin' -- but on this one, I think she really is on the side of good.

Bottom Line:

I honestly don't understand the ad hominem, personal, kind of nasty criticsm of the Guardian article.
It goes way beyond; attacking the message by attacking the messenger, and what's the agenda there?

Whether you use Britt's 14-point list, or Wolf's 10-point list, or someone else's 6-point list, if that's what's on your mind, and you're talking about the push-back against OWS, is it really so out of bounds to speculate, or try to pull together evidence, or consider any number of points of origin for that push-back?

Ever read Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man," or for that matter, who was it wrote that "Shock Doctrine" book?

[stillwaiting]

56. +1

[hootinholler]

27. I prefer...

Postington Huffer, but that's a personal problem.

Are the attacks on Occupy coordinated? Possibly, but it is more apparent to me that it could easily just as well be an artifact of the culture that was infused into police departments in our post 911 worldview.

Does PERF have a role in this? I think so, similar to the role of ALEC in the cultural shift of state legislatures.

[Pirate Smile]

28. This post was absolutely needed - as the thread shows.

:)

[Arctic Dave]

29. Gee, ya think maybe it was intentional by the words they used in the article

about Wolf.

However, I still think it would be an excellent idea to have a hearing to find out the facts. You never know, she could be right. With the constant drummng of the article about her, you would think she was more important then she was by some of the people who are continously posting the same article, over and over. Lets put it to rest with a congressional hearing.

[freshwest]

31. Thanks! Goodness knows I get them mixed up. Wolf appears on Alex Jones, JBS/Koch/RP disinfo show.

[NYC_SKP]

38. OMG You're right. Naomi Wolf in Several Clips with Alex Jones and his Wacky Site!!!

:rofl:

NO LINKS ALLOWED!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Major Hogwash]

50. So, Alex Jones is your nemesis??

Incredible.

[geek tragedy]

58. Alex Jones is Glenn Beck on steroids--rightwing crackpot. nt

[Major Hogwash]

59. What?

I wasn't asking you.

[NYC_SKP]

61. No, I like him, it's just one more way she self-identifies as a self-promoting hack...

To be kind.

I like Alex Jones for his entertainment value, but if he believed half the shit he broadcasts, he would be hunkering down in a shelter.

And he is not.

:donut:

[Major Hogwash]

62. Guilt by association is so uncool.

I just don't get the need for it.

[NYC_SKP]

67. It's just what she does...

[Hutzpa]

40. Bottomline

Naomi Wolf is not a friend whereas Naomi Klein is an ally.

[boston bean]

51. really. read why she chose Barack Obama for President in 2008. nt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/why-barack-obama-got-my-v_1_b_89017.html

[Swede]

43. And Naomi Watts is the actress?

The Ring,King Kong etc.

[canoeist52]

45. Wow, she must be saying or about to say something that scares

certain groups to warrant this smear campaign. If she's such a fluff, why the post?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. Thank you!

I legit just morphed them together.

[Jim Lane]

48. Thanks, very helpful! Do you do musicians, too? I have a Tim Buckley - Tim Hardin problem. (n/t)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

49. Yes, but we can all agree that they were both great in those movies with Morgan Freeman. nt

[NYC_SKP]

54. That they were!!!

:donut:

:hi:

[WinkyDink]

53. HTH DIFFICULT IS IT TO USE GOOGLE?!?!

[JoeyT]

55. She said something we don't like!

Quick! Someone get me my well poisoning bag!

[geek tragedy]

57. She said deranged things that were not true. nt

[NYC_SKP]

60. Yep, and spreading Lies is counterproductive to the movement.

Which is why it's so very unacceptable the she did this.

But the more you study her, the more she reveals herself to be a self-promoting pseudo-progressive with plenty of 1%-er connections.

:patriot:

[mojowork_n]

70. Hmmmmmm

"Wolf, wolf, wolf," cried the boy.

[Blue_Tires]

64. Klein has always been one of my favorites

I need to check if she's single...

[Fantastic Anarchist]

74. Unfortunately, she's not.

And if she does become single, you're going to have to wait in line ... behind me.

;)

[Scurrilous]

65. Thanks.

K & R :thumbsup:

[Douglas Carpenter]

66. I'm sure you're right about that..It's easy to get our naomis mixed up.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

68. I'm totally in love with Naomi Klein. nt

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

69. Which one is Wynonna's mom?

.

[saras]

71. Two women - OBVIOUSLY one of them has to be bad. It's the American way.

[krabigirl]

72. don't know anything about the first naomi, but I am a fan of the latter. nt

[T S Justly]

73. Like 'em both (nt)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

75. It's easy: One of them played the President in Independence Day....

...the other one was in Twister and Apollo 13.

[uponit7771]

76. Yes,....