Anyone else get the feeling the United States is going in the dumper?

[Confusious]

I'm sure that there are many who've felt that it's been going there, but the past couple of years, I have been, even more so then usual.

Every time I read an article about the state of affairs, I get the feeling we're shackled to corporations who send jobs overseas and want our every last dime, politicians who are so cowardly that IF they know, they do nothing about it, or so stupid they don't know the difference.

Then there's the public that just doesn't seem to care, or if they do know something, they blame the wrong people, or say something like "The United States will go on forever"

Yea, the Romans thought the same way about Rome.

[slackmaster]

1. It's been in the dumpster since 1792 when Congress adopted the Whiskey Tax

:argh:

[Odin2005]

2. I do. And it is really gonna suck.

[Strelnikov_]

3. Futures so bright . .

gotta wear shades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr5bJGEtoMo

[Cleita]

4. It is and I've pretty much given up hope that

the nation is going to have a group epiphany about it and make the effort to turn things around. It's just not going to happen. :-(

[OhioChick]

12. I completely agree with you, Cleita n/t

[Ghost Dog]

33. I'm very sorry to hear you say that.

But, that's the conclusion I've come to too, Cleita, Ohio, all.

Over.

[karynnj]

52. I so hope that you are wrong, but I really can't see enough people in the House

turning around and realizing that we can get out of these problems just by cutting everything. Rather, we need to invest in our infrastructure, our people and research. It's not that there aren't Democrats making the case for that. Just one I know of is Kerry, who made an excellent speech - that Ezra Klein was incredibly impressed by. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/01/if_you_read_only_one_john_kerr.html )

In the back of my mind, I wonder if there is some unusual logic behind the (Republican) Immelt appointment. Maybe it is a long shot effort to spin the old fashioned Republicans away from the tea partiers. If you think of it, for those Republicans that are mostly concerned with business, if a business case can be made that our companies are held back because of our investments in these areas lagging other countries, is it possible to get enough of them to join with the Democrats to rethink how we make America productive again.

This is not a rational, analytically based thought - more a fervent HOPE, not wanting to see the pain that will be throughout the country if we fail.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Imperial collapse, lovely thought

[somone]

6. The decline has begun

It's the entropy of empires

[bluestate10]

7. No.

Our country is going through a difficult period, but it has been through such periods before. One difference this time is that as a nation, we must fundamentally rethink every decision that we make. There are many good people out and about working on our most difficult problems, I have faith that out of those efforts will come solutions for many of them.

[knowbody0]

9. me too, bluestate10

I also believe that with the changes happening today, Amerikans will be forced to see how our imperialistic activities have affected the planet and that in reality we really are all connected. there are solutions for the planet that exclude corporate profit as load star. having the biggest and most weapons aint gonna fix this.

[gateley]

10. But I don't think this is another "such period" -- We owe China more than any

country has ever owed another, we've sold off chunks of our country and most of our companies, our manufacturing has trickled to a mere whisper of what it once was, we import so much of our food and goods. We're a shadow of what we once were, so I'm not sure we can build it back up regardless of how many good people are working toward that goal.

I hope to hell I don't know what I'm talking about and that you do.

[Confusious]

15. You're more optimistic then me

I think many have given up on reflection and therin lies the problem.

I think reflection will come, it always does, but not before, but after.

[TheWraith]

20. Amen. I'm tired of the "woe is us, it's all over, inevitable collapse" crap.

In my opinion, the people saying that have never studied history.

Yes, things are hard, but they've been a LOT worse in the past and we made it just fine.

[Confusious]

25. It's never inevitable

But if things continue they way they are, with people looking the other way, selling out for a deal or not willing to take a stand just to make children happy, it looks like it will happen.

[closeupready]

50. Yes, this is true, things have been very much worse than they are today.

East for me to say that, perhaps.

[Leftist Agitator]

36. Aren't you going to tell the OP...

"Chill out, relax, drink some beer and eat some wings!"

:eyes:

[bluestate10]

39. I got enough grief for that last time. I will just use the advice on myself this time around :-) nt.

[RufusTFirefly]

8. And if they aren't careful, the Canadians...

... may get pulled down with us.

[glinda]

14. We need to write a love letter to our Canadian friends pleading for their saneness.

[FiveGoodMen]

62. Since they've still got Harper I'm not sure they're that sane.

[JVS]

11. Since the people who could fix it are deciding that they need to reach consensus with the people...

who want to wreck it, America is doomed.

[U4ikLefty]

13. Let us hope the Empire fails and the Republic succeeds.

I would be the best thing for everyone.

[Confusious]

17. How do you seperate that

when so many don't want it separated. The British empire did fine in their dissolution. I don't think America will. We don't have the gravitas, for lack of a better word.

[mwrguy]

16. When was it not in the dumpster?

Even when prosperous, it was via oppression and imperialism.

[Confusious]

18. Yea, I figured there might be some who would say that

Which country in the world was better at each point in history?

Which country didn't partake of imperialism and oppression? Not saying it's right, just saying that if you're going to point out evil, I would like to see good too.

Was there a majority of countries, was there a minority?

I would like to know.

[Disintermedia8]

60. Indeed

Prosperity built on the rapacious consumption of the world's resources at a gluttonous rate covered up all the unpleasant stuff. Resources are gone. Other countries have wised up. But a Ponzi scheme cannot be "undone". It must play out until the end. And I will refrain from saying "the end is near" unless I'm wearing a sandwich board.

[DeSwiss]

19. Yes.

The nation is buckling under the weight of http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/0684818868">two centuries of lies and guilt as a nation -- which was laid in place on top of two previous centuries of lies and guilt as colonies before that. And we won't admit it. We ain't strong enough to admit it. Like the man said: "We can't handle the truth!" In point of fact, we are just a continuation on a familiar theme. Same song, different verse. But the song's tempo has been accelerated.

The verse we're singing started with the indigenous people whom the "New World Discoverers" said were http://www.thestar.com/News/article/213883">just savages and that god sent the Europeans here to "save." We don't call them indigenous people now, we call them "illegals." And then there's the continuation of the abuse of women and the negation of their rights and cheapening the critical role they've played in helping to carve-out a life here. We've finally decided to let them vote but they still don't have complete control over their own bodies yet. And then there are the slaves. I say "are" instead of "were" because they're still many here. The chains are just located on their minds now.

What we're seeing now is unlike anything we've encountered in the past. What's largely made the difference is technology. And the internet figures prominently in all this. What this technology has done is to help us create a society that doesn't need so many people to function anymore. Machines and computers don't demand wage increases, sick days or health insurance. Just power and a handful of technicians. And as a result, those who live on life's margins risk being pushed off entirely. And those who thought they were comfortably middle class, now can't quite envision their future anymore. It's all cloudy and uncertain. Actually its very clear but we don't like looking at things starkly. We prefer warm and fuzzy. We prefer to elect popular and good-looking heroes that will save us. Though we can't even say if the machine that we used to vote for that hero, even counted our vote properly.

We've allowed our air and our water and the food that we eat to be poisoned right under our very noses. And then we wonder why cancers abound in our bodies and our brains grow dull and lifeless from Alzheimers in our later years. Sometimes not even that late. We've dumbed-down our own children and they now take tests designed to make them "seem" smart -- even though we know they're not really. Because we've failed to teach them how to think critically. We taught them instead how to find the "right" answers on a test. Not how to formulate the correct questions by knowing life's underlying principles first. The reality is that most people today couldn't survive very long without the "system" anymore. Many couldn't cook a meal without a microwave.

Yet everyone knows the truth now, because it's inescapable. One has to be willfully ignorant of the facts nowadays. And Obama's election only serves as a constant reminder of the things we're all still ignoring. Which is the cause of all of our continuing turmoil. Truth avoidance. Even Barack himself ignores the truth, with his "not looking back" philosophy if you can call it that. He apparently doesn't realize that in so doing he gives aid and comfort to a continuation of the denial of reality on everyone else's part. If he can do it, why not us? So he doesn't deal with it, and we won't. Perfect co-dependents.

And so we go under. And we'll keep going under until we acknowledge what's pulling us down. Lies and guilt. It happens to nations just like it does to people. The fact is -- only we can save us. And we can only do that, if we start telling each other the truth.


- First......

K&R

[Confusious]

24. History repeats itself because no one was listening the first time.

Nice post.

[old mark]

21. K&R...I was talking to my wife yesterday about moving to another country...

she said that she had been thinking about the same thing, too! We are thinking Panama or France...


mark

[Confusious]

23. England, Australia or new zeland, belize.

[old mark]

32. Costa Rica is great, too...nt

[closeupready]

51. Have you ever lived abroad before?

I did, in France, as it so happens. My rec (if you wanted it, lol) would be to just try it out for six months and see what you think at the end of that period. I was supposed to be there for two years, but came back early because I missed home so much. Cheers. :hi:

[Confusious]

56. Home is where the warm is.

:)

[grahamhgreen]

22. More like 3rd world.

[Bonobo]

26. This year I will become a citizen of Japan.

I will be renouncing my US citizenship.

I still love the idea of what I once thought America was...or could be, but I could no longer deny what the cold hard facts were telling me.

I have my children and their (future) children to think of and I decided that I had to do what I had to do.

[Raine]

27. "Going"? It's already there and has been ever

since Raygun was prez, he really tossed it into the crapper.

[shanti]

55. thank you

it's been going for a long time!

[delightfulstar]

28. If we continue on the way we're going now, yes.

Pardon me as I wax nostalgic, but it makes me a little sad when I think of the way things used to be.

My dad was a brick mason, and supported four children (and a 4-bedroom house) on his salary. We weren't rich, but we weren't destitute either. The block that I grew up on was full of average, honest, hard-working people. We had several neighbors who worked in law enforcement, a firefighter, a mechanic, a few truck drivers, a few nurses, a couple of teachers, a minister, some sales people (real estate, insurance, retail commission), and a couple of people who worked at the Fisher Guide plant (now torn down, and replaced by a huge strip center). We had block parties, the kids played at the park together and went to school together, and nobody was too busy to say hello. We cared about each other, looked out for each other, and supported our community. Most of the businesses were run by people who were part of the community, and the people who worked there knew who you were. And anything that was "corporate," aside from the odd McDonald's or Burger King, was something that was at least based within the same state.

Fast forward a bit...ten years ago when I went back to the town I grew up in, there was very little that was still recognizable. Almost all of the local places where bought out, or shuttered completely, and the flavor was gone - it was as if someone took a hand to my hometown, and wiped almost everything I remember off the map. I haven't been back since. (The Pretenders song My City Was Gone always reminds me of this, and coincidentally, the town I'm speaking of happens to be in Ohio.)

It seems like we've lost our way. We don't seem to support our own communities the way we used to. It's all about the almighty dollar, and may the fastest and the richest win. Everything is monetized, categorized, automated, outsourced and corporatized, purportedly for the sake of convenience - from where we live, to where we shop, where we work, where we eat, and what we do from day-to-day. People want to get in and get out, and say as little as possible doing it. It's as if many people don't even want to connect these days, let alone work together, or reach a hand out to someone who might need it. We need to look out for one another again, and do things that will benefit the good of the people, not the greed of corporations. I know that we may never completely go back to that, but if we can at least get back to the important pieces of it, we can regain a sense of self-worth as a nation.

[KatyaR]

61. You speak the truth, my friend.

My dad was a farmer, and my mom taught school in a tiny farm town of less than 300 people. Dad would work a few odd jobs throughout the year for a bit more money--working for the county election board and seasonal bank work (we had a bank--can you believe it?!?). We didn't have a lot, we lived in a cinderblock house with no insulation, but we got by and then some. When my dad's health became so poor that he wasn't able to farm anymore, we moved into the county seat, about 15,00 people at the time, maybe less. We bought a brand-new three bedroom brick home, central heat and air, a 2-car garage, a fireplace, a formal living room and a den, two full baths and a large yard, for TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. My mom refused to bring the furniture from the farm, so we bought all new furniture from the local furniture store, and a new washer and dryer as well, which was installed IN THE HOUSE and not in a separate shed; Mom was over the moon. She also ordered custom, lined curtains from Sears for the entire house, total cost $600, installed. Today you couldn't buy a patio curtain for that.)

My dad died a couple of years later, a year after that I went off to college, we were able to pay all my costs, plus buy me a car for college. Social Security benefits from my dad helped a great deal. Mom retired a year or two later, and she was able to take care of her self, pay her bills, and have a bit left over for fun until she had to move to a nursing home because of Alzheimer's. The proceeds from the sale of the house and its contents paid for her care for five years until her death, and there was money left in the bank after that.

Today I make more than both of them did in a good year put together, and I can't afford a home, I have a good apartment, but it's in an area that's rapidly declining. I drive a 14-year-old car that I pray will keep running, I can't afford another one or hardly any repairs on it. I don't take my asthma meds because I can't afford it, even with insurance. I am glaucoma suspect and am now developing cataracts, and I have no idea how I will be able to pay the several thousand dollars it will cost to have cataract surgery, even with insurance. I haven't had a raise in almost five years, and the job I took last year after being laid off ended up costing me $6,000 a year in salary.

Somehow today our payroll company didn't get our paychecks to our banks when they were supposed to. Luckily I had a few bucks left in the bank and am good on groceries and gas until Monday, but I was lucky. There are many times when I don't have enough money to buy a quarter-tank of gas. My bosses had to scramble to make sure that people had money through the weekend. Thank goodness they cared that much--many employers wouldn't even think about helping out.

I see more and more of my fellow employees hanging on by a thread. I have one friend who is living off credit cards, her salary barely pays her house and car payments, and she doesn't live high on the hog. With food and gas prices going up constantly, it's getting harder and harder for everyone to keep a buck in their pocket.

And today, the little town I grew up in, that had such great people in it and such a wonderful history, is pretty much abandoned. The town is trashed, and the surrounding areas are full of junked cars and trailers, meth labs, and sexual predators. A few weeks ago several adults living together a couple miles up the road from town were arrested for sexual assault of their own children. I used to dream of moving back out there and having a tiny place of my own, but it's not a safe place to live any longer.

To parapharase Tennessee Ernie Ford, "we've sold our souls to the company store."

(Thanks for letting me ramble....)

[opihimoimoi]

29. Cynicism will get us nowhere...let us work and vote for a better future...TOGETHER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AfU3EqYuGs
For the Brothers...pata pata

[Swamp Rat]

31. Come, my friend, into big blue water...

:)

[opihimoimoi]

35. Come, we go fish for mahimahi. ...lobsters....crabs... ..fine wine.... .doobies

[Mojorabbit]

53. Oh my

this looks like a gorgeous spot. Would you tell me where it is located? :)

[Swamp Rat]

58. Oahu, Hawaii

I really wish to go there someday. O8)

[DeSwiss]

40. Absolutely wonderful. Thanks for the link. ;-) n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. What's a "dumper", where can one be found, and what makes you think the US is going there?

Way to spell Confucius by the way. Good thing spelling isn't taking us there.

[Confusious]

38. Toilet, trash heap, dumpster, shit, etc

I meant to spell it that way.

[Reader Rabbit]

34. You mean we're not already there?

Huh.

[we can do it]

37. Going?!

[Poboy]

41. Man the lifeboats...prepare for the oncoming shitstorm as best you can.

[Quantess]

42. Yes, the empire is crumbling, and Americans will be the last ones to figure it out.

I will be surprised if the US gets back on the right track anytime soon.

[DeSwiss]

48. The Ants of Gaia

The Ants of Gaia
It's only the end of the world, so quit bitching

By Joe Bageant

As a small boy, I once transferred most of an anthill population from its natural digs in our front yard to a gallon jar of fresh dirt, sprinkled it with a little sugar (in the cartoons, ants are always freaks for sugar, right?) and then left the ants on their own. Of course the day came when all I had was a jar full of dry earth, ant shit and the desolation of their parched little carcasses. I'd guess that it was the lack of water that finally got 'em.

But the most interesting thing in retrospect -- if a jar of dead bugs can be called interesting -- is this: Up until the very end they seemed to be happily and obliviously busy. They constructed an ant society with all of its ant facilities, made more baby ants and did all those things ants do that the proverbial grasshopper is famous for not doing. Obviously Christian predestinationists to the last ant, they met the grasshopper's grim fate by another route, and did not look at all surprised in death.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2007/07/the-ants-of-gai.html">link

- Yep.

[Quantess]

66. Thank you for posting that link.

What an awesome read! Maybe it wasn't completely matching the topic from the OP, but I really enjoyed reading that. It makes me want to read a Joe Bageant book.

[sarcasmo]

43. Modern Rome has been in the dumper for quite some time now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Well, at least we built the dumpter and didn't offshore it.

[ElboRuum]

45. No.

But what I do feel is the same thing I've always felt, that people don't really get the idea about the importance of action until the whole system crashes down around them. I always wonder, would we have had a middle class for the bulk of the past century if the Great Depression had been only a recession? Would the Gilded Age have taken a permanent hold on our country in those times rather than giving way to the New Deal?

Probably, I think. The Great Depression needed to happen because it essentially put a point on the fragility of quality of life in America when most of the people live at or below the poverty level. When people had to live through times of extreme paucity of resources, they adopted attitudes of frugality, reuse, and when we were out of it, the importance of supplying a social safety net and financial/banking regulation to prevent it from happening again.

I hate to say it, but maybe having to go through the same crap our parents, grandparents, and/or great-grandparents went through back in the Depression era will finally wake up all of these "hardened", teabagging "bootstrappers" to the reality of just how much of their lives are contingent on the very things that they've been trained to despise. All of a sudden, they'll find things missing that they've always taken for granted, have their five stages of grief, eventually giving themselves over to the truth that they've been sorrowfully had. Until then, we'll have a non-trivial segment of the country brainwashed into believing without question the idea that the government hates your face (when, oddly, it is the one institution that still belongs to us, if in name only) and that they will be rewarded for voting against "weak-minded, crybaby, tree-hugging, hippie liberals" and for "square-jawed, tough-talking, ass-kicking, God-fearing conservatives". Of course, this is anathema to their own prosperity, but I guess who needs actual prosperity when you have a flag to wave in your left hand and a Bible to beat people with in the right, for that must be the spiritual prosperity they all seem to talk about that makes being a neocon puppet so worthwhile.

If I need rolling eyes and sarcasm icons here, then I've simply not done a good job.

Ehh... fuck it, here they are anyway.

:eyes: :sarcasm:

[kctim]

46. Alex Jones agrees!

[WinkyDink]

47. Raises hand. See: News about possible "re-structuring"of public pensions.

[shanti]

59. that

frightens the hell out of me!

[closeupready]

49. No, but I am concerned about the rightward drift of society and policies.

If we follow those policies far enough and for long enough, we WILL eventually bankrupt our nation's finances and destroy our civil society.

[Confusious]

54. That's my point

Following those policies will lead us into the trash heap, and nobody in power seems to see it. I'm thinking they're all on acid or something.

[FiveGoodMen]

63. "nobody in power seems to see it"

I think the people in power have been watching it through telescopes and binoculars since it was hundreds of miles away.

They've waited breathlessly for us to get to this point.

It is the return of slavery.

Not based on race this time, just class.

Either way, they get all the power, we get all the burden, and if we don't like it -- or just aren't useful to them anymore -- we can literally eat shit and die.

They know what they're doing.

They are the closest thing to the devil that actually exists in real life.

[Angry Dragon]

57. yes

[FlyByNight]

64. All empires fail

We will be no different.

The sincere adoption of Friedmanism by the Wall St./Washington mandarins (by all Rs and more than a few Dems) in the late 70s/early 80s has certainly hastened our demise. Congress and the presidency are core-corrupted as they've been relegated to middle-management; they take orders from their SCotUS-approved paymasters.

The wealthy will prosper (maybe somewhat less) while the rest of us will suffer.

[donheld]

65. Glad you've finally noticed.

[rbnyc]

67. Where am I and why am I in this hand-basket? (nt)