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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:28 AM
Original message
Organ trafficking: no myth
Edited on Fri Jan-21-11 03:34 AM by Hannah Bell
By the time her work brought her back to the United States, Nancy Scheper-Hughes had spent more than a decade tracking the illegal sale of human organs across the globe. Posing as a medical doctor in some places and a would-be kidney buyer in others, she had linked gangsters, clergymen and surgeons in a trail that led from South Africa, Brazil and other developing nations all the way back to some of her own country's best medical facilities...

By accident or by design, she believed, surgeons in their unit had been transplanting black-market kidneys from residents of the world's most impoverished slums into the failing bodies of wealthy dialysis patients from Israel, Europe and the United States. According to Scheper-Hughes, the arrangements were being negotiated by an elaborate network of criminals who kept most of the money themselves.

For about $150,000 per transplant, these organ brokers would reach across continents to connect buyers and sellers, whom they then guided to "broker-friendly" hospitals here in the United States (places where Scheper-Hughes says surgeons were either complicit in the scheme or willing to turn a blind eye). The brokers themselves often posed as or hired clergy to accompany their clients into the hospital and ensure that the process went smoothly. The organ sellers typically got a few thousand dollars for their troubles, plus the chance to see an American city...

At first, not even Scheper-Hughes believed the rumors. It was in the mid-1980s, during a study of infant mortality in the shantytowns of northern Brazil, that she initially caught wind of mythical "body snatcher" stories: vans of English-speaking foreigners would circle a village rounding up street kids whose bodies would later be found in trash bins removed of their livers, eyes, kidneys and hearts...

http://www.newsweek.com/2009/01/09/not-just-urban-legend.html



Sometimes you just hate being right. One of the reasons I got out of clinical nursing was that, as a floating critical care/ER nurse in a busy teaching hospital, I got tired of watching young poor kids come in through the ER with gunshot wounds, end up in a coma in the neuro ICU waiting for the surgeons to harvest their organs to transplant them into the people who could afford them and then care for the organ recipients in the surgical ICU. No matter how many lives are saved by transplants, we have to face the reality that the situation is ripe for exploitation.

Dirty, Pretty Things (2002), winner of the Best Independent British Film, 2003, written by Steven Knight, depicts the plight of illegal immigrants in the UK, who sell their organs in exchange for passports. Fiction?

CNN reported yesterday that police in India have cracked an international organ-trafficking ring. Organs harvested from the poor and sold to the wealthy, one Dr. Amit Kumar, a.k.a. Santosh Rameshwar Raut, the alleged mastermind. This same doctor had a previous arrest in 1994 for running a similar scheme in Bombay. He skipped bail and started up his "practice" in other cities.

One doctor and patients were held - including two from the US. ABC reports that the two US citizens, dialysis patients, are forbidden to leave the country because they are suspected of waiting for illegal transplant operations. Dr. Kumar is on the lam and is thought to have fled India. CNN has video of the victims and their surgical wounds. Some were taken by force, being promised jobs, and nurses, doctors and medical technicians were involved in the procedures. Interpol reports that as many as 50 health care workers were involved in the racket. Punishment if a doctor is found guilty of illegal transplants in India? Two years jail time.

Read more: http://www.healthline.com/blogs/healthline_connects/2008/01/calling-dr-kumar-real-life-dirty-pretty.html#ixzz1BemnZJbY
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. This would be another place where the rich who can't get on any...
...transplant list would acquire organs. I've heard of this before. There IS an urban legend attached to a couple cases, but the act itself is very much real.

Now, at what point does this involve American Organ Donors? Oh, I see. According to the article, this kind of thing is driven by SUPPLY and DEMAND. Unfortunately, because so few people (like yourself, according to the other thread) are organ donors, there is INCREASED demand and NOT increased supply.

So, your argument then is that CLEARLY we should refuse to donate organs to a corrupt system that is driven by a LACK of people donating organs.

...

...uh, okay.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. bullshit. it's driven by money. which is why i changed my donor status two years ago.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-11 03:47 AM by Hannah Bell
and it's no urban myth.

if rich people want organs, they have relatives too. let them tap them.

oh, but that would be painful & leave scars.

easier to pay for some peasant's kidney.

the rich harvest the poor.

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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Your topic title makes absolutely no sense.
'Its driven by money...which is why I stopped donating.' WTF?

It's driven by supply and demand -- EVEN YOUR OWN ARTICLE MENTIONS IT! If 100,000 people need one and 10,000 are available, THEN its about money -- because there is a DEMAND and no fucking SUPPLY!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. you seem to believe rich people have a right to other people's organs.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-11 04:14 AM by Hannah Bell
because you talk of organs as if they were a commodity like wheat.

"oooh, the supply isn't big enough in the developed world so we have to go to india for our kidneys!"

"In some of these countries, as the WHO later quantified, 60 to 70 percent of all transplant surgeries involved the transfer of organs from those countries' citizens to "transplant tourists" who came from the developed world."

****

The traffic is all one way. As the nurse noted, poor inner city kids have their organs harvested. Rich kids' organs are only harvested "with permission".

I've seen something similar at my work.

That's why I changed my donor status.

I don't care what you think about it.

Most transplants are paid for by private health insurance, although the Medicare and Medicaid programs pay for certain transplants for certain people.

Many private insurers now cover heart transplants. However, you must contact your insurance company to know if you are covered and for how much.

Some insurances cover you for less if you have the procedure done at a hospital outside their "system." This is the case for me.

Your heart transplant costs might be reimbursed by Medicare if you are Medicare eligible and the transplant is done at a Medicare approved center. Medicaid coverage for your transplant is decided by your state's State Medicaid program. If your state does cover your procedure, the federal government will provide funds on a matching basis.

Although legislation to change this is in the works, currently your meds are only covered by Medicare for the first 3 years, and then you are on your own!

http://www.chfpatients.com/tx/transplant.htm

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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. I changed my organ donor status
back in the 90's after Micky Mantle. There have been numerous other examples of the rich and the well connected getting preferential treatment..and now we have Steve Jobs.

This is a good thread, it just reaffirms my belief that I'm making the right choice in refusing to be an organ donor..
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's not Supply / Demand, it's cold hard cash n/t
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Why is it worth cold hard cash?
BECAUSE OF FUCKING SUPPLY AND DEMAND!

C'mon, I KNOW posters here are smarter than this. If there were ample amounts of organs, organs enough that everyone who needed one could get one, WHAT INCENTIVE WOULD THERE BE TO DO IT THIS WAY?! Would the rich person just toss out the money to some 3rd world schmuck out of the kindness of his fucking heart? OF COURSE NOT!

When people actively refuse to donate -- using THIS as a reason, nonetheless -- they are feeding into the problem. They CERTAINLY aren't STOPPING it.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. you seem to think with enough organs transplant surgery would be free & everyone would get one.
joke.

it's bankrupting, even with the best insurance, even with free organs.

the rich & upper middle class pay for third world organs because they can get what they want when they want for the price they want.
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Shandris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. What? They wouldn't be free?
Of course they wouldn't be free, and there is far too much disparity involved. But every problem has a starting point, and the starting point for this one is in unmitigated supply. It is for this reason that I support stem-cell research, cloning research, cybernetic research, and so forth. There are many problems to solve involving organs, transplants, and suppliers, and many of the problems will likely be multi-generational in solving. But if we simply stamp our foot down and refuse to even START because someone MAY unfairly game the system, then every single thing we stand for is a lie. Do some people cheat welfare? Yes. Is it many? No, of course not -- the requirements are too stringent. But it CAN be done. Do we just scrap the whole system? Shall we do it with Medicare also, because a few unscrupulous surgeons defraud Medicare? Let us hope it never comes to that. Some people have been known to 'store' dead relatives in order to keep SS checks coming in for a short time. Shall we scrap SS?

I don't think you'd support any of those measures (if so, you're on the wrong site! :P ) any more than I would. So why would you do what is, in essence, the same thing here?

Start with the foundation and build up. It's the ONLY way.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm not interested in prolonging the lives of rich people by giving them my organs for free.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-11 04:11 AM by Hannah Bell
Sorry.

Let them ask their kids to donate.

The transplant tourists are mostly:

1) older (young people get priority on transplant lists)
2) wealthier (unwealthy people can't afford medical tourism or transplant surgery)


If their kids won't donate, why should I?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. If everyone signed up as an organ donor...
there'd be no need to exploit the poor.

And not everyone who gets a transplant is rich. Many are simply middle class.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. Duh
We own you - and your organs - 'the war criminal of a Dick'. :sarcasm:
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Workers are just commodities to the ruling class.

They are carrying that relationship to this hideous conclusion.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is beyond egregious.
beyond criminal...makes me wonder what anyone's true "value" is, k&r
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Now we know where Dickhead is getting a heart.
:puke:
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. one thing that would help all this
Is to have an "opt out" system, rather than opt in. Everyone is an organ donor at death, unless they have specifically opted out. That has helped Austria with the supply/demand issues of organs.

http://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/embassy/canberra/practical-advice/travelling-to-austria/organ-donation-in-austria.html
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