Seymour Hersh book to reveal how 8 or 9 neoconservative radicals ovethrew the American government,

[JohnyCanuck]

(and how secret societies exist within the highest echelons of the US military).

High-ranking members of US military part of ‘Knights of Malta,’ ‘Opus Dei,’ reporter claims
By Stephen C. Webster

Veteran investigative reporter Seymour Hersh has broken some massive stories in his day, but uncovering secret societies within the highest echelons of America's military would probably be the biggest of his career.

Well, get ready for the media storm: That's essentially what Hersh told an audience in Doha, Qatar recently, according to a report published earlier this week by Foreign Policy.

Speaking at a campus operated by Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, Hersh said he was working on a new book that details "how eight or nine neoconservative, radicals if you will, overthrew the American government."

"It's not only that the neocons took it over but how easily they did it -- how Congress disappeared, how the press became part of it, how the public acquiesced," he continued, according to the published quotes.

Hersh also lamented President Obama's continuance of the Bush administration's worst abuses.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/highranking-members-military-part-knights-malta-opus-dei-reporter-claims/

[kysrsoze]

1. And despite the whole story being available, everyone will ignore. But I still want to read it.

Thanks.

[valerief]

3. It'll be front page. Like an antiwar protest.

:rofl:

[social_critic]

64. Fame will depend on whether Hersh is allowed to tell the whole story

Seymour has the whole story, already wrote about it, the media covered it up. The media can't discuss it because they are part of the problem, they cooperate with the government when the country goes to war.

I'm going to link an article by David Tucker, who was a Member of the Board of Advisors at the Ashbrook Center for Public Affairs at Ashland University and an Associate Professor of Defense Analysis at the Naval Postgraduate School.

http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/oped/tucker/03/hersh.html

Remember Dr Tucker is working for the military when he writes the article. The article attacks Hersh and apparently defends the Bush administration, but it also discusses a subject Mr Hersh has brought up in his writings. Dr Tucker says (about Hersh):

"On a radio interview show, he argued that Straussians believe in telling noble lies and suggested that Defense’s reading of the intelligence about WMD and terrorists in Iraq was such a lie. This is far-fetched. Not all those involved at the Department of Defense were students of Strauss, but all were willing to make the Administration’s case about Iraq. In focusing on Strauss, Hersh missed the real story. Several of those at Defense most strongly in favor of invading Iraq were part of a team that advised the government of Israel in the mid-1990s. The team argued that Israel needed a new strategy. The strategy they proposed argued that "Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions." This strategy has now become America’s."

Dr. Tucker thus throws mud on Hersh by diverting the neocon/Straussian influence towards anonymous Defense dpt officials who felt taking Saddam out would be good for Israel and the US. Indeed there were military officers who backed the war, many of them saw it as an opportunity to shine in combat, others saw it as a political opportunity to get their names in the media - Petraeus is the best example. But guys like Petraeous wouldn't have had their war if Cheney and the CIVILIAN neocons in the Pentagon didn't have the freedom of movement they had. I'd like to offer this reference from DU for those who wish to read more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3889446&mesg_id=3889742

This gives links to a very interesting article in Commondreams "Pentagon Office Home to Neo-Con Network"
by Jim Lobe.

Enjoy.

[valerief]

2. Like we didn't know there was a coup? I guess he's gonna give details. Meh. nt

[PDJane]

5. Sure you know.

Everyone knows. But Americans have a great facility for believing three unbelievable things before breakfast......and this will be no different.

The whole world will read it, but only those outside of the US will give it the credence it deserves.

[Capitalocracy]

134. There are lots of people who didn't know there was a coup.

We need to shout it from the rooftops. I'm looking forward to this one.

[oasis]

4. k and r

[mahina]

49. Oasis?

Our Oasis from Hawaii? Is that you man?

[FiveGoodMen]

6. Hope SOMEONE pays attention!

[molly77]

82. A lot of people will pay attention! This is big.

[Poboy]

7. Recommend.

[crazylikafox]

k&r

[crazylikafox]

8. k&r

[Kolesar]

9. "Just when we needed an angry black man, we didn't get one"

Hersh also lamented President Obama's continuance of the Bush administration's worst abuses.

[fascisthunter]

10. We Need to Figure Out WHY there were no Safe-Gaurds against this Take-Over

and how it got to be this way... many here have that answer, but it needs to be talked about because it will keep happening. Nobody prevented this from happening.... why?

[Ahpook]

15. Thats been my question all along

How did a hand full of gangsters take over in this way? Beyond quite a few people falling asleep, or the rubes that follow along no matter what, we have laws in place that SHOULD have stopped them.

As we know none of them are being enforced. How???

On edit: I thought for sure the torture bullshit would start the ball rolling. My eyes opened wide realizing just how sick this society really is.

[fascisthunter]

16. exactly... while folks debate on details, the big picture takes a back seat

why is Bush and Chenney walking away from their crimes? Why are corporate shills being appointed to high positions that will effect our economy, when our economy has already been damaged by those same corporate interests the shills shill for? Those are only two questions, but there are so many more, and none of them get an honest answer from the establishment. Geee... I wonder why?

[Ahpook]

21. There is so many problems now..

what the hell can we do?

I was practically in tears a few days ago after an interview for employ. These fuckers wanted EVERYTHING from me. Surprised they didn't ask for blood, hair or whatever else.

While I filled out the application they had a TV screen scrolling through mugshots of each employee. Each mug had general info about that person. Felt like I was filling out papers for a prison stay.

Out of control!

[snot]

27. Your story's worth posting as an O.P.

[tilsammans]

55. Ditto! n/t

[defendandprotect]

99. Ditto --

[Ahpook]

131. Not much more to say actually.

Filled out the application in a side room while the screen scrolled about in the corner of my eye. Hard not to watch which raises the question, what purpose does it serve? All it did was make me extremely nervous about accepting employment from these freaks.

By the way, as hard as it is to say with everything happening here, it is an insurance call center. They sell home and auto insurance and I used to do that and have my license up to date.

Had a feeling I would have to fall back on this damn thing :(

[molly77]

83. Fascism should be called corporatism because it is the combination of govt and corporations

Benito Mussolini

[social_critic]

78. Because change was slow and subtle.

It's what they call the boiling frog syndrome.

However, let's not put all the blame on Bush. What do you think Obama is doing in Afghanistan? What was Clinton doing bombing Yugoslavia in 1999? It's part of the same pattern, and Democrats play the war game too.

[fascisthunter]

96. excellent metaphor

[defendandprotect]

100. +1 --

[defendandprotect]

98. Do you see the Congress or the president "protecting" the people from any thing?

This is organized crime running our government --

[Marblehead]

11. I hope

it goes mainstream. I feel like I've been in a Dan Brown novel for the last 10 years..

[tex-wyo-dem]

58. I like your reference to Dan Brown...

I've also thought of Robert Ludlum...secret groups/societies and all, working to consolidate power and wealth to a very select few.

The shit we're living through aint fiction anymore.

[aggiesal]

12. Here's my guess of the 8 or 9 ...

1) Dick Cheney
2) Donald Rumsfeld
3) Jeb Bush
4) George Bush
5) William Kristol
6) Paul Wolfowitz
7) I. Lewis Libby
8) Antonin Scalia
9) Douglas Feith

[Swamp Rat]

20. 10+) David Addington; Richard Perle; Michael Chertoff; John Yoo; Stephen Hadley et al.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

51. neonazis

[decidedlyso]

24. Add Karl Rove and you may have most of them.

[aggiesal]

32. To Swamp Rat & DecidedlySo ...

Excellent additions.
I'm sure with the list we've created, the 8 or 9
that Seymour Hersh references, are buried among them.

BTW, I used the PNAC Pax Americana document to determine
which neocons to add to the list. Some are not listed in the
PNAC PA doc, but most are.

[Raster]

47. replace the National Village Idiot with Perle and I think you've got it!

And don't forget National Security Concubine: Kindasleeza Rice and certainly do not forget "wetnurse to the beast" Karen Hughes.

[Swamp Rat]

13. KICK ASS!!!!!

:patriot: :kick:

[superduperfarleft]

14. His "angry black man" comment was racist as shit, but I'll probably read his book anyway. n/t

[sabrina 1]

25. No, it wasn't, far from it, but I guess you don't do nuance

His angry black comment was calling out those on the right whose stereotypical image of all black people is that they are 'angry and we should be afraid of them'. Have you forgotten the campaign vitriol already? The racism, the bigotry aimed at Obama by the far right because they believed they were they going to have a president who was an 'angry black man' just as, in their view, all black people are?


And pointing out that bigotry, Hersch also pointed out the irony of how they got the exact opposite, they got an appeaser. So their fears were unfounded. But then bigotry has no logic.

And, since Hersch and all progressives have great admiration for the 'angry black men' like MLK eg, despised by the far right, he pointed that that is what we actually needed, a MLK and all we got was someone who has no intention of fighting for progressive ideals.

[superduperfarleft]

28. Oh, I do nuance, I just don't do clueless white liberal.

And I'm so over explaining this to people...

[sabrina 1]

34. I never mind explaining things to people once I've done the research

and am as sure of the facts as I can be. But as far as not 'doing clueless white liberals', I guess you wouldn't be willing to explain that odd phrase? I had no idea that only whites were liberals. :eyes:

[Fearless]

37. +1

[superduperfarleft]

38. I never said only whites were liberal. I guess you don't do nuance. n/t

[Webster Green]

53. You think Hersch is clueless?

Jeezus. Maybe in opposite world. :eyes:

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SharksBreath]

74. As a Black man. It's the truth. We needed Chuck D

and we got Carlton from the Fresh Prince.

[tomp]

75. thank you. i also thought it was extremely funny and clever, not racist.

assuming any black many with a complaint is just an "angry black man", now that's racist. i think it's great when people of all colors can get angry about the right stuff together. that's generally where progress comes from.

[Orrex]

77. That's a terribly racist thing to say, you racist racist!

Oh, wait a minute...

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

101. Headline of article was intended to keep you from focusing on the story ... it worked--!

which was about Cheney -- "We'll turn al lthe mosques into cathedrals --

and take all the oil" -- and this take over by neo-cons from the former

VP's office now in the Joint Special Operations Command --

The headline was a red herring and it did what it was supposed to do --

distract you.

[kctim]

17. Ah yes

‘Knights of Malta,’ ‘Opus Dei,’ 'Bohemian Grove,' 'New World Order,' 'Bilderbergs, 'Tri-Lateral Commission, 'Illuminati'

We are doomed.
:tinfoilhat:

[Raine]

18. Interesting

THANKS for posting this. :thumbsup:

[stevenleser]

19. I prefer David Swanson's take that doesnt require a conspiracy to explain things..

The Bush years were simply an executive branch gone berserk with a congress unwilling to check the POTUS

[slay]

22. Very rarely do events like this happen involving only one person - people label stuff "conspiracy"

as an attempt to discredit information before actually seeing said information.

Let's say two people conspire together to accomplish something bad - all that has to be done in these modern times is label it "a conspiracy" and people instantly write it off as fake. so whatever they did didn't really happen cause ALL conspiracies are fake right? :eyes:

[Raster]

50. Thank YOU!

[slay]

63. np

:)

[defendandprotect]

116. True -- and our Founders recognized "conspiracy" in government ...

in a number of ways --

The Founders wrote about what to do in the event of a conspiracy between

the president and the vice president, saying that in that case the

administration should be suspended.


We also know that we got the Bill of Rights because the Founders understood

domestic conspiracy -- and observed that ...

If there were not dishonest men among us we would not need a Bill of Rights,

but because there are dishonest men among us we need a Bill of Rights.


We also have the cautioning by the Founders in the Constitution -- "to defend

against all enemies -- domestic and foreign" --


Therefore, to try to suggest that this is conspiracy-free America is inane --

though many have attempted to try to use that concept to put Americans to sleep --

to falsely assure them re their own government when no such assurances can ever

be given.


As the Founders warned it takes constant vigilance over a people's government to

hold onto it --



Shakespeare -- "Only fools never doubt - "

[sad sally]

130. Correct analysis, and continuing in this thought,

who were the conspirators running the government during Reagan's eight years? We know he wasn't in charge.

Brian Williams assembled all the players in HW Bush's Gulf War recently (guess it's going to air tomorrow), and seeing small segments of it reminded me that 20 years ago, here was a group of conspirators up to no good at the time.

Labor to keep alive in your breast
that little spark of celestral fire,
called conscience. George Washington

[superduperfarleft]

29. The Bush years were the culmination of a "conspiracy" that goes back decades.

That's one thing the far right is good at, patience.

[defendandprotect]

117. True ....

Since the earliest days of the Constitution and Bill of Rights -- !!

And we've had more than 50 years of out in the open right wing political violence --

stolen elections - and lies.


Keep in mind, the voting machines began coming in during the late 1960's --

and the large computers used by MSM began coming in during the mid-1960's --

both used to steal elections --

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey -- !!


Two journalists in Florida did immediately begin to question the odd results in

Florida with computer voting -- this was late 1960's -- and they wrote a book

about it which was contracted for and shipped to book stores, but then immediately

taken off the shelves. The website has excerpts from the book -- which is avialable

here and there for about $3 a copy.


http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[KoKo]

40. YOU...actually READ..David Swanson?

It's amazing you say this.

[stevenleser]

71. Just google my name and his book Daybreak nt

[KoKo]

132. Thanks for that link...you did a very interesting review of Swanson's book..

and thanks for that to read it.

:thumbsup:

[Major Hogwash]

43. I prefer Bill Clinton's take -- it's not a conspiracy if it is done out in the open.

We could all see it coming, but like a freight train running downhill out of control with no brakes, it couldn't be stopped.

It crashed.
At the bottom.

Bush is a national train wreck.
We're the victims.
The American people.

[defendandprotect]

104. So campaign finance funding which bribes and buys our candidates isn't a conspiracy..

Because it's done in the open -- and in fact completely legal?

So is that little game with the shells and the pea -- done completely in the open --

and a complete scam --

[social_critic]

66. The Bush administration didn't go "berserk", it was carefully guided

The guidance came from the neocon school, of which Dick Cheney was a key member - but he wasn't alone. There was a well organized effort to deceive the public into backing the war, and this involved cooperation from a very diverse group of people, from Tony Blair (British Prime Minister) to William Kristol (Weekly Standard) and Judith Miller.

I like to follow Miller's career because she was so instrumental - she's the newslady character portrayed in the Matt Damon movie "The Green Zone". Here's an early article about Miller in Slate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2083736/

Here'a recent article on Miller:

http://www.businessinsider.com/disgraced-nyt-war-reporter-judith-miller-joins-conservative-mag-newsmax-2010-12

It seems Miller, one of the key individuals in the conspiracy to take us to war, has now been joined at the hip to the Sarah Palin school of Foreign Relations. Note how Miller, in spite of having been disgraced as a journalist (she was fired by the NY Times), keeps finding jobs in right wing neocon owned media. In other words, she did her thing, and she's being taken care of.

I'm not going to discuss William Kristol, whose job at the Weekly Standard (a neocon magazine owned by Rupert Murdoch), and Fox News are well known. But anybody who is interested in this topic should research the Kristol story, his links to Rupert Murdoch, and the way the whole web was spun.

[tomp]

76. i'm sorry. it think david swanson is great but....

....if that's his position, which i question, he's wrong. the problem is fundamental in the american political system dating back LONG before the pretender bush.

also. your apparent anti-conspiracy mindset is a serious bias of thought process you ought to reconsider.

[social_critic]

80. Swanson is part of the coverup if he wants us to ignore the topic

I wonder why he's saying it if indeed he is. He has been a pretty good fella when it comes to anti war thinking.

[tomp]

81. i don't believe this is swanson's position, i think it is the poster's. nt

[stevenleser]

127. Well, I read his book. Did you? n/t

[tomp]

133. you could read his book and give a misinterpretation....

or take a statement out or context, or lie. when david swanson tells me that's his belief i'll argue it with him. what i've read of him leads me to believe his view is not as narrow as you portray.

[defendandprotect]

103. Think Swanson's smarter than that ...

this is the rise of the Fourth Reich -- well-financed and in control of

our communications --

rising on political violence over a half century now --

and ready willing and able to do more violence - steal more elections -

spread more lies.

[DeSwiss]

23. K&R n/t

[snot]

26. K&R'd; and I strongly disagree with any implication that it's pointless to document what's happened.

The right persuades by repeating its lies.

We should expect to have to repeat our truths at least as often in order for them to prevail.

[social_critic]

79. Documenting what happened? It's still going on.

It's somewhat naive to believe this is only an issue impacting Democrats. Our troops are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo is still open, the military budget is still bloated, and we continue to behave as if we were globocop.

I'd like to remind you Senators Clinton and Biden were highly supportive of the Iraq war - and I don't swallow the canard they were too dumb to realize the WMD story was fake - all they had to do was ask Scott Ritter and Mohammed el Baradei to come talk to them.

We need to understand what happened then, and we need to understand what's happening now. And if you believe this is only a Republican disease, then I suggest you start reading and researching the topic with open eyes.

[defendandprotect]

30. Will look for the book -- always worthwhile to hear from Hersh -- !!

[Odin2005]

31. Historian Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton's mentor, knew this years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x444782

[snappyturtle]

57. Thank you! Added the books to my must read list . nt

[defendandprotect]

106. Carroll Quigley was an active participant -- interesting ....

it's control by hierarchies as we've always known -- they're united, we aren't!


Control by Private Central banks working against their nation governments --

each central bank was intended to DOMINATE its government, by its ability to

control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level

of economic actcivity in the country = and to influence cooperative politicians.


What's new -- we might not know every detail of the crimes being committed but

we all recognize organized crime -- don't we?



AND . . .


Think we also need to be reminded of this quote from the video -- *


Regarding the two party Left vs. Right system (or the sham we call "democracy")

Quigley stated --

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies,

one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable

only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers . . .

Indeed, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can

'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extreme

shifts in policy."





* Page 1247 from the book "Our Tragedy, Their Hopes" by Carroll Quigley

[eleny]

115. Audio interviews with Quigley conducted in 1974, here....

http://www.carrollquigley.net/interviews.htm

[Odin2005]

118. Thank you!

:hi:

[eleny]

124. Here's one that's a cleaner audio, easier to hear what's being said...

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=25471

:hi:

[jwirr]

33. We have been remembering JFK this week. One thing I remember

is a movie about the overthrow of the government. Something like "Seven Days in October", I think. President Kennedy saw it and said it could be done. I wonder if that movie is still around.

[lob1]

35. I think the movie is "Seven Days in May".

[social_critic]

72. The Green Zone is more applicable

I don't think this is about a military coup - yet. It's more about the way the government was hijacked and the country taken to war.

[defendandprotect]

109. Wasn't familiar with that one -- here's a link --

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706606/

Didn't get a very good rating -- but based on other issues?

[FailureToCommunicate]

44. Yup, "Seven Days In May" Also interesting is "13 Days" (although

you have to ignore Kevin Costner's "Boston" accent!)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0146309/

[hootinholler]

61. Did he get a pre release copy?

IMDB has it release in '64

:shrug:

-Hoot

[tomg]

102. Probably referring to the

novel by Fletcher Knebel published in 1962. I read it years ago.

edit: typo

[defendandprotect]

107. Think maybe you mean "Seven Days in May" ... ?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

And it has played on AMC network in the last few months --

[SpiralHawk]

36. k and r

k and r

[WinkyDink]

39. So: Finally the "tin-foil" is going Mainstream. "Nutcases" have written the SAME THINGS for DECADES.

I know; I have the books. :-)

Perhaps Sy's next book will be on Skull and Bones. ;-)

[social_critic]

67. See my other posts

And the truth shall set you free.

[defendandprotect]

110. Again ...

Jim Marrs has been on this "Rule by Secrecy" which is still out and

went into paperback -- not one I have.

But obviously we're controlled by hierarchies -- they're united -- we're not!



:nuke:

[KoKo]

41. Well...hoping to hear some press about Sy Hersh's latest...

but given the "Lock Down" expect it will be tepid. After all...so many don't know or even care who he was and what he did in his past.

In these days ..Past is dead...like everyone who complains about what's going on with America is some Ageing HIPPIE...something they saw dreadful things about on the History or Discovery Channel. And...maybe their divorced parents...(one of them was some dreadful hippie) but they STILL LOVE JOHN LENNON...yet forget what he was ABOUT...and trash and trash the generation who REALLY TRIED TO DO SOMETHING...that's lost in some TABLOID stuff about POT SMOKING..LOVE FESTS..and portraying those folks as IDIOT ROMANTICS....

SAD how the Right Wing FAUXITES...sponsered by that VERY OLD GEEZER who is too old to understand the 60's Movement (Ruppert Murdoch) and what his GAZILLIONS CAN DO TO BUY OFF AND RE-WRITE HISTORY OF A MOVMENT FOR CHANGE IN THE US...as FLOWER CHILDREN, POT SMOKING IDIOTS...that NO TRUE REAGANITE SHOULD EVER HAVE BOTHERED WITH!

Forgive my RANT AND ANGER...but it does come from my heart....WITH FULL CAPS BLAZING!

It is so sad to see a RE-WRITING OF HISTORY.......:-(

[Le Taz Hot]

70. That boomer hatred is alive and well

and THRIVING on DU. Ageist post after ageist post left unchecked.

I know what you mean about that drivel on the History channel, "Hippies." The next time it comes on I think we should start up a drinking game and take a swig every they juxtapose the words "dirty" and "hippie." I have NO idea who wrote that shit but it could not have been more inaccurate. My guess is that their advisers were Young Republicans who completely missed the 60's in the first place. They didn't have clue back then and they don't have a clue today as most of them are, most likely, tea partiers.

[eleny]

121. Those YR "suits" get might twitchy when asked about enlisting in the military

Remember the twit who babbled on about fighting the culture war here at home? As if! :rofl:

Yup, they know nothing of the '60s and what the draft really meant. We knew because Dan Rather broadcast it on the evening news. :scared:

[defendandprotect]

111. History Channel isn't what it once was ... complete reversal after

decades of trying to wake up Americans --

However, believe me, Ruppert Murdock does quite well understand the 60's movement !!

That's why they're trying to rewrite history again to confuse Americans --

Keep in mind, our history was only ever the propaganda of white males --

this is about trying to convince Americans they don't know what they think they know --

and they didn't see what they've actually seen!

Right wing propaganda of lies still works!


Right wing likes to try to reduce the YOUTH REVOLUTION to a "sexual revolution" --

but it was about a great deal more -- an overall challenge to patriarchal authority --


"I realized that in this country we had a revolution--of housing, food, hair style, clothing, cosmetics, transportation, value systems, religion--it was an economic revolution, affecting the cosmetics industry, canned foods, the use of land; people were delivering their own babies, recycling old clothes, withdrawing from spectator sports. They were breaking the barriers where white and black could rap in 1967. This was the year of the Beatles, the summer of Sergeant Pepper, the Monterey Pop Festival, Haight-Ashbury, make your own candle and turn off the electricity, turn on with your friends and laugh--that's what life was all about."

http://maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Ballad%20of%20Mae%20Brussell.html



Brussell also writes in this collection about this movement and its threat
to corrupt government -- there are a few articles, think this is one --
Go down a third of the way to "III The Enemy" --

http://maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Operation%20Chaos.html

Annoying when you can't find what you're looking for!

[randr]

42. I hope Seymour keeps an eye out for rouge buses!

[Kablooie]

45. He makes it sound like we are going the way of Iran.

A great movie to learn about Iran's governmental takeover by religious extremists is Persepolis.
It tells the story in animation from a young girl's personal perspective.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

52. Remember the Shah?

[defendandprotect]

112. VP Biden has been calling for Israel to attack Iran for a year now ....

saying that "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran!" --

what would our role in such an event be?

[cartach]

46. Google PNAC

Project for the New American Century - They're listed in there.

[Raster]

48. "golly gee... it's too bad we don't have a new Pearl Harbor-type event...

...so we can put our nefarious plans into effect much faster!

It's almost as if it were planned...

[social_critic]

68. PNAC is a key term

Anybody who wants to learn about the road to war in Iraq has to become familiar with the Project for the New American Century.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Check the guys who signed the letter. Research them individually, then draw up their links to Bush's Pentagon under Rumsfeld. I've gone as far as finding out who were their college roomates, their family links via in-laws, and other subtle details. It's very interesting. Seymour Hersh has the information, the question is whether he'll ever use it.

[defendandprotect]

113. +1 --

[eleny]

123. That sounds like the making of a comprehensive genealogy of rogues

I really hope you create some sort of relationship chart with lines connecting people based on their relationships as you've described. It would be so illuminating.

[Ghost in the Machine]

128. Check out my post #97 on this thread..

I would love to see the other information you have about room mates and family ties...

:hi:

[Overseas]

54. K&R ! //nt

[pitchforksandtorches]

56. give us names, addresses, & social security #

[social_critic]

73. They are easy to find

Read the book, look at the PNAC website, google "In Rumsfeld's Shop".

[Chimichurri]

59. Matt Taibi when asked who he admired, said Seymour Hersh. I hope

Matt will help fan the flames of this story.

Sounds plausible given all the crazy shit going.

[Honeycombe8]

60. Scary stuff. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

62. Seymour Hersh is a patriot.

He tells the truth. An odd thing these days.

[SpiralHawk]

69. + 1

[defendandprotect]

114. +1

[susu369]

84. Within the highest echelons of America's military

that must include Lieutenant General William "Jerry" Boykin.

[Ichingcarpenter]

85. You know he does document things and when he says the Opus Dei

is involved...

You better believe that Nazi Pope is involved.

[SpiralHawk]

91. "Smirk." - Pope Ratzinger (R)

[defendandprotect]

125. "Is the Pope Italian?" .... Anyone remember that?

Pope John XXIII moved to turn the RCC/Vatican into a democracy with Vatican II --

which proclaimed members' right to their own free conscience on every issue --

and where the Pope told Catholics to use their own personal conscience to decide

for themselves whether or not to use birth control.


Born Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli Vatican II opened under Pope John XXIII on 11 October 1962 --

but Roncalli din't live to see its completion -- Died June 3,1963 --


And, imo, the first of the non-Italian Popes --

John Paul II on his predecessor

Cardinal Karol Wojtyła was elected to succeed John Paul I as Supreme Pontiff on Monday, 16 October 1978.

was also the first CIA Pope --

Evidently the intelligence links the RCC had throughout the world rivaled our CIA's abilities






----------------------------


Vatican II closed under Pope Paul VI on 8 December 1965.

Roncalli --
(25 November 1881 – 3 June 1963),


Calling the CouncilFar from being a mere "stop gap" Pope, to great excitement John called an ecumenical council fewer than ninety years after the Vatican Council. Cardinal Montini remarked to a friend that "this holy old boy doesn't realise what a hornet's nest he's stirring up".<7> From the Second Vatican Council came changes that reshaped the face of Catholicism: a comprehensively revised liturgy, a stronger emphasis on ecumenism, and a new approach to the world.

Final months and death

On 23 September 1962, Pope John XXIII was first diagnosed with gastric carcinoma. The diagnosis, which was kept from the public, followed nearly eight months of occasional stomach hemorrhages, and reduced the pontiff's appearances. Looking pale and drawn during these events, he gave a hint to his ultimate fate in April 1963, when he said to visitors, "That which happens to all men perhaps will happen soon to the Pope who speaks to you today."

On 25 May 1963, the Pope suffered another hemorrhage and required blood transfusions, but the cancer had perforated the stomach wall and peritonitis soon set in. By 31 May, it had become clear that the cancer had overcome the resistance of Pope John. "At 11 A.M. Petrus Canisius Van Lierde as Papal Sacristan was at the bedside of the dying pope, ready to anoint him. The Pope began to speak for a very last time: "I had the great grace to be born into a Christian family, modest and poor, but with the fear of the Lord. My time on earth is drawing to a close. But Christ lives on and continues his work in the Church. Souls, souls, Ut omnes unum sint." <8> Van Lierde then anointed his eyes, ears, mouth, hands and feet. Overcome by emotion, he forgot the right order of anointing. Pope John gently helped him. Then the Pope bid him and all the other bystanders a last farewell.<9>

The Pope died 7:49 p.m. (local time) of peritonitis due to a perforated stomach cancer on 3 June at the age of 81. He was buried on 6 June, ending a reign of four years, seven months.

And ...


Pope Paul VI born Giovanni Battista Enrico Antonio Maria Montini (26 September 1897 – 6 August 1978), reigned as Pope of the Catholic Church and Sovereign of Vatican City from June 21, 1963, until his death on August 6, 1978.


Humanae Vitae
Main article: Humanae Vitae
Of his eight encyclicals, Pope Paul VI is best known for his encyclical Humanae Vitae (Of Human Life, subtitled On the Regulation of Birth), published on 25 July 1968. In this encyclical he reaffirmed the Catholic Church's traditional view of marriage and marital relations and a continued condemnation of artificial birth control.<74>

Pope Paul VI caused considerable surprise in 1968 when, to the consternation of his aides, he publicly denied rumours of "scandalous behaviour". Though rumours had circulated periodically in anti-papal and anti-Catholic publications as to Paul's sexual orientation and possible homosexuality, with suggestions of a past relationship while he was an archbishop with a priest who had served as his secretary, when what Paul called these suggestions began to feature in some elements of the Italian media, he made the controversial choice of issuing a public denial. It was the first time in the modern era that a pope had commented in any way about his sexual identity.<128>


And ...

Pope John Paul I born Albino Luciani, (17 October 1912 – 28 September 1978), reigned as Pope of the Catholic Church and as Sovereign of Vatican City from 26 August 1978 until his death 33 days later. His reign is among the shortest in papal history, resulting in the most recent Year of Three Popes. John Paul I was the first Pope born in the 20th century.

In Italy he is remembered with the appellatives of "Il Papa del Sorriso" (The Smiling Pope)<1> and "Il Sorriso di Dio" (God's Smile).<2> Time magazine and other publications referred to him as The September Pope.<3>

One of his remarks, reported in the press, was that the Lord was not only the father, but also the mother.<9>

[skyounkin]

86. Yeah- it happened in 2000

cheney, rumsfeld, are at the top....

[olegramps]

87. Opus Dei took over the Catholic Church.

Pope John Paul II was a devoted admirer of Opus Dei and was most likely a member. Its membership is secret unless the member divulges their association. The previous popes refused to recognize Opus Dei and many bishops condemned the society. After John Paul was elected he quickly recognized this secret order that only answers to the pope. The local bishops have no authority over it members. However, that is of little importance now since nearly all of the bishops are ridgid traditionalist with the heads stuck in the Dark Ages.

During the course of his papacy John Paul replaced every moderate or liberal bishop with fanatical conservative extremists. He was a protector of Marcial Maciel who had since 1956 been accused of sexual abuse of young seminarians. Since he recruited vocations to the priesthood during a time when few were being attracted John Paul evidently ignored the numerous complaints. This notorious pedophile and rapist who had fathered at least one child was finally removed when Ratzinger was elected pope. He also initiated a comprehensive investigation of the Legions of Christ that had been founded by Marcial Maciel. I would suggest that John Paul when he is is sainted by this group of extremists be designed the "Patrian Saint Pedophiles" for his protection of his goood friend Marcial.

The intent of Opus Dei was to promote members into powerful positions in government and industry. Many attempted to warn the membership about this dangerous group, but the media has been for the most part been silent in its opposition. This can primarily be attributed to the group's secrecy. I would not be in the least surprised if Jeb Bush isn't a member along with several on the Supreme Court. There is concern that due to the manner in which young boys are attracted to their seminary system that the ground work for a further rash of pedophilia could be in the offering. Some bishops have refused to allow the Legions or Christ of operate seminaries in their dioceses. It clearly evident that the order is has been infiltrated by Opus Dei adherents. This should not be surprising when it is considered what type of men would be attracted to be Catholic priests in view that only the most rigidly conservative would accept mandatory celibacy, the continued insane condemnation of contraception and abortion even in cases to save the life of the mother. However, this the type of mentality that today constitutes the majority of the today's Catholic leadership. Hopefully, Hersh will be able to awaken people to these secret groups that have aquired positions of authority in government, industry and the military throughout Western society.

[felix_numinous]

88. Perhaps Wikileaks has opened an era of disclosure

-a natural result of the era of RW propaganda. Secrets have a shelf life, let us hope they can be kept short enough to act in real time.

[newtothegame]

89. Oh god. Is this the same guy who claimed thousands were coming forward on 1-20-09?

And yet, crickets...

[Ichingcarpenter]

90. Yes.... and its called his BOOK

He documents his stuff and the only news that lets him speak now

Is DEMOCRACYNOW.

[dotymed]

92. I have written in previous posts

that nearly everyone I know (RW'ers too), agree that our country is not run by our elected officials. They take their orders from "TPTB", for a lack of a better name. Most agree that America was taken over decades ago. It is the elephant in the room that no one cares about. I can't say that they don't acknowledge its' presence, so I conclude that they don't care. No one wants to rock the boat. We all know that "they", not "us" (the people) call the shots. Most argue about when this happened or who "they" are, but still recognize that we are no longer a country "for and by the people."
I hope that the Hersh story causes people to take action, but I do not believe (at all) that it will.
Some modicum of prosperity, keeping their head down, is all that most people I know, hope for. They probably consider me a radical although I keep my head down also, for the most part.
America is undoubtedly,IMO, a Fascist nation where the facade of Democracy is slowly being lifted. So slowly, that this new(?) status is accepted.
The few who will speak up against it are either very comfortable financially, hopelessly destroyed already or very courageous.
Our government is counting on you, on all of us, helping them maintain the lie until it no longer matters. We may already be there.

[felix_numinous]

93. A great example of a true conspiracy,

people working together for a common cause. When we see Republicans everywhere, news personalities, media hacks, corporate and military officials saying the EXACT same sound bites at the SAME time, what do you call that? People working together, in lock step, sharing the same narrow minded ideologies and dedicated to sticking to the plan of defeating the left--is that not a conspiracy? A systematically planned and coordinated effort was put into effect that served many people's interest--the theocrats get what they want, the military gets what they want, and the corporate interest gets what they want, and so many others who are on that money train get the power money and influence that they want.

The conspiracy is perhaps as simple as enabling and not getting in the way of this train, because when you sign on as an insider, you are loyal to this cause. Why is it so hard for people to imagine this as possible? Part of their propaganda was to totally ridicule anyone imagining they were working together. The big lie. And here we are.

[Ichingcarpenter]

95. +5 n/t

[colsohlibgal]

94. Careful Seymour

I wouldn't be hopping on too many small planes ala Ron Brown and Paul Wellstone. The powers that be play very rough.

[Ghost in the Machine]

97. Maybe he was reading one of my posts lol...

I have been documenting the neocons in power in our Government for a while, here's a list I made:

Neocons in positions of power:

Dick Cheney - Vice President

Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense

Paul Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary of Defense

Richard L. Armitage - United States Deputy Secretary of State

I Lewis "Scooter" Libby - Chief of Staff for VP Cheney

Condoleeza Rice - US National Security Adviser

Stephen Hadley - Deputy National Security Advisor

Elliot Abrams - National Security Council Senior Director for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations

John Bolton - Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security

Paula Dobriansky - Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs

Zalmay Khalilzad - head the Bush-Cheney transition team for the Department of Defense and Khalilzad briefly served as Counselor to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

Richard Perle - Chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee

Peter W. Rodman - 1995-2001 Director of National Security Programs, Nixon Center.
July 16, 2001 - March 2007 Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs

William Schneider, Jr. - Chairman of the Defense Science Board

R. James Woolsey - Within hours of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Woolsey appeared on television suggesting Iraqi complicity.

Robert B. Zoellick - U.S. Trade Representative - member of the Executive Office, with the rank of Ambassador

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=298398&mesg_id=298613

:hi:

[NoSheep]

105. Nothing against Hersh but he probably got a lot of his details from DU

edited to add: the old DU...where facts mattered more.

[Davella]

108. a few lesser mortals can do a lot - see this call for a Bank Run on 26 Jan

Well if a small group can take over the US government, a small group of left-wing radicals can do a lot too! In particular, the banking system is VERY unstable.

The following document is currently getting circulated in England.

(begin)

To take part in a large-scale action planned for next Wednesday (26 Jan 2011) against the banks, please send out the following tweet:

*** Hit back at the banks: BANK RUN on Revenge Wednesday, 26 Jan 2011. Info at: tinyurl.com/bankrun2011 PLEASE FORWARD THIS ***

…and circulate the following info by any means possible…

BANK RUN ON REVENGE WEDNESDAY, 26 JAN
========================= ============
On Wednesday 26 January 2011, thousands of people in the UK will try to cause a bank run by withdrawing money from their bank accounts, in person, at high street bank branches.

The hope is that the movement will snowball.

Everyone is welcome. Just print out the form below, fill in your details, and take it to your bank, preferably around lunchtime, e.g. about 1pm. Even better, print out multiple copies and hand them round. Use email, Twitter, Facebook too.

When the first bank branch says it won’t pay out people’s money, let everyone know, using every means possible. Take photos. Use mobile phones, send tweets, get the journalists in on the picture. This movement is decentralised. It is what you and we make it.

Note that this idea was tried last December, after being suggested by Eric Cantona. Unfortunately it didn’t go very far, mainly because the organisers asked people to “sign up” online. We’re not asking you to sign up to anything. In particular, you do NOT have to give any personal details to anyone. The form below is just for giving to your BANK.

If you can only afford to withdraw 10 pounds, please do it. If you can afford to withdraw thousands of pounds, do that too. EVERY LITTLE HELPS. Banks cannot withstand everyone withdrawing even a tenth of what they’ve got in the bank. LET’S SEND THESE PARASITES A MESSAGE THEY’LL NEVER FORGET. It’s an open secret that they’re holding the country to ransom. Let’s kick ‘em where it hurts.

This is the financial system’s MAJOR WEAK SPOT. That’s why the Dutch government is considering making it illegal to call for a bank run. Because they’re SCARED. In 2009 there was a bank run against a Dutch bank. This was considered to be a particularly unpleasant bank, which had been encouraging millions od Dutch people to get into debt who couldn’t afford it. People did a run against it, and it went bankrupt. How sad.

In Britain, you’d be hard pushed to name a bank which DIDN’T try to get people into massive debt they can’t really afford.

Here’s the bottom line: THE BANKS HAVE GOT IT COMING TO THEM.

So please take part. Spread the news. Distribute this leaflet. Print your own. Just do a little bit to help, and we’ll be strong and we’ll blast the damn banks like they’ve never been blasted before.

Please print the following, complete the details, and hand it to your bank around 1pm on 26 Jan 2011.

************************* *********
NAME: _________________________ _
ADDRESS:_________________ ____________
_________________________ _______
ACCOUNT NUMBER: ___________________
SORT CODE:____________________ __
NAME OF BANK:____________________ _
To: the Branch Manager
Dear Sir,
I wish to withdraw ____________ pounds from my account in cash, immediately.
Yours sincerely,
__________________ (signed)
************************* *********

(end)

[Patchuli]

119. I am grateful to the voices who speak the truth

no matter what. Now if only we could awake the sleeping sheeple...

[xchrom]

120. thank you mr hersh. look forward to your book. nt

[progressoid]

122. That's a book I won't read.

My blood pressure is already too high.

[SnakeEyes]

126. Big deal

I've been hearing about this for years on Coast to Coast AM. That show knows it's conspiracies.

[alfredo]

129. Rick Santorum is a member of the Knights of Malta.