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We shouldn't even hear the words "Social Security"

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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:10 PM
Original message
We shouldn't even hear the words "Social Security"
Why the fuck is anyone talking about social security? Programs that are successful, and popular, and morally correct, should be left alone or maybe improved upon, but not challenged. There is only one reason to challenge Social Security.

WALL STREET AND THE BANKS WANT TO STEAL THE MONEY!

I'm sorry for screaming, but hitting my head against the wall only produces holes.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's ALWAYS about the money. Put some in a pile and watch
the robber barons descend on it.

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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah, like flies on a pile of sh**! n/t
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Like you said
What Wall Street wants is far more important than what the stoopid proles want.

"YOU PEOPLE WILL EAT YOUR GRUEL AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly what is going on - they can't stand the fact that money is not
in their coffers via privatization of SS. Why many Americans choose to be so naive is beyond me. I'm beyond what it will take to wake many Americans up anymore, so many live in a la la land.


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. HUH?
Now its the ordinary citizens who are destroying Social Security?

Obama and Congress have nothing to do with it?

HUH?
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. There are Americans that think they can do better longterm in private
accounts than Social Security. No, I did not mean to imply Obama and Congress have nothing to do with it.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I don't know any of those "Americans", and all the polls show that this would be against
the will of the people.

I really do wish we could dial down the rhetoric of blaming ordinary people for what the powers that be are doing. We really are all together in this. Really.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I know them. Yes, I agree we are all in this together, but some are not, those
are the ones I speak of and they run the gamut from wealthy to poor.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You know, when I started work on my PowerPoint project on homelessness, I recognized that there are
about 25% of the people in this country (including many "progressives"!!!) that I wouldn't be able to reach. I accepted that, and continued on.

It has come to the point where so many of these threads just end up attacking other citizens, and I find this highly disturbing. This "US and THEM" nonsense isn't doing us any good at all, and is, in fact, contributing to the inability to make any kind of reasonable change in the situation.

Having been tossed on that "THEM" waste bucket here on DU several times, I can assure you that all it is doing is creating animosity that cannnot be healed.

It is time to call a truce.

WE. ARE. All. IN. THIS. TOGETHER.

ALL

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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yep, that's a good point(s)!!! n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thank you!
:hi:

I realize that the frustration is intense... believe, me, the intensity of *my* frustration is just about unbearable.

But the fact is, it isn't about most of the average citizens..it is about those in power who are sopping up the money and power and sticking it to us. We feel powerless to confront that, so we blame others..... many who don't have the luxury of being able to follow up on the truth. It really is up to us to figure out how to reach them.

Truce. Peace. :hi:
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I can't think of anything where we haven't always agree! It's always interesting
talking with you!
:hi: :hi: :hi:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You're one of the few who I see is willing to listen in order to resolve differences. I value that
more than you know!

Peace won't come from always agreeing.. peace will come by being willing to hear.

I hear your frustration, and empathize with it. :pals:

You hear my pain about being "the OTHER", and that means the world to me! :toast:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. The corpofascists will not stop until they have it all... by any means necessary.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That's exactly right.
Which is why we should fight them tooth and nail.

Never compromise with the devil.

Hear that, Mr. President? (No, I know you don't care)
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. YAY!! GE CEO Jeff Immelt has been appointed chairman of the new Council on Jobs and Competitiveness!
Now we'll be fucked a lot faster and harder than before.


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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Gosh
maybe Jeff will hire Alan Simpson! Yikes.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm for raising the cap. Is that considered a Challenge or an improvement?
That would be hard to get done, if as you recommend, the words social security cannot even be uttered.

Obama has spoken of raising the cap on SS, but somehow, those words haven't been repeated over and over again...or morphed, etc....because they don't support the meme that some want us desperately want to buy into; the worse of Pres. Obama and his intentions.

His quotes over time.....

The best way forward is to first look to adjust the cap on the payroll tax. ... Ninety-seven percent of Americans will see absolutely no change in their taxes under my proposal. ... What it does allow us to do is extend the life of Social Security without cutting benefits or raising the retirement age.”
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkDAdVJpF1U&feature=player_embedded


“Second, I do not want to cut benefits or raise the retirement age. I believe there are a number of ways we can make Social Security solvent that do not involve placing these added burdens on our seniors. One possible option, for example, is to raise the cap on the amount of income subject to the Social Security tax. If we kept the payroll tax rate exactly the same but applied it to all earnings and not just the first $97,500, we could virtually eliminate the entire Social Security shortfall.”
Article: http://www.barackobama.com/2007/09/21/fixedincome_seniors_can_expect.php


"....Warren Buffett, who makes more than $100,000 a year, the vast bulk of his income, he doesn’t pay Social Security taxes on it. That could be modified or changed in a way that would help extend the solvency of Social Security."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DhBi2i3UZc


Other statements on uncapping the payroll tax
September 22, 2007 — “If we kept the payroll tax rate exactly the same but applied it to all earnings and not just the first $97,000,” Obama wrote this week in an Iowa newspaper, “we could eliminate the entire Social Security shortfall.”

September 6, 2007 — “I think that lifting the cap is probably going to be the best option. Now we’ve got to have a process back in 1983. We need another one. And I think I’ve said before everything should be on the table. My personal view is that lifting the cap is much preferable to the other options that are available. But what’s critical is to recognize that there is a potential problem: young people who don’t think Social Security is going to be there for them. We should be willing to do anything that will strengthen the system, to make sure that that we are being true to those who are already retired, as well as young people in the future.”

April 27, 2008 — “In terms of raising the cap on the payroll tax, right now everybody who’s making $102,000 or less pays 100% of payroll tax on 100% of their income. There are about 3% to 4% of Americans who are above $102,000 in income every year. So if you want to talk about who’s middle class, me giving cuts to folks making $60,000 or $70,000, and potentially asking more from friends of mine like Warren Buffett. That’s a debate I’m happy to have with John McCain, because it’s the people making $75,000, $50,000, $60,000 who are hurting.”- Fox News Interview 2007

April 16, 2008 — “What I have proposed is that we raise the cap on the payroll tax, because right now millionaires and billionaires don’t have to pay beyond $97,000 a year. Now most firefighters & teachers, they’re not making over $100,000 a year. In fact, only 6% of the population does. And I’ve also said that I’d be willing to look at exempting people who are making slightly above that.”
Q: But that’s a tax on people under $250,000.
“That’s why I would look at potentially exempting those who are in between. This is an option that I would strongly consider, because the alternatives, like raising the retirement age, or cutting benefits, or raising the payroll tax on everybody, including people making less than $97,000 a year--those are not good policy options”- Philadelphia Primary Debate

--------------------------------------

Obama will keep his promise not to cut Social Security Benefits, and the daily rumormongering and conjectures by some will not come to fruition.

Informed and documented discussion is fine.

Constructive Activist Actions supporting Social Security are excellent.

However, assumptions based on nothing more than the use of one word or the make up of 2 members of a multiple member Commission looking at everything fiscal is not, IMO.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. real improvements
should be welcome. Some that should not:

- raising retirement age.
- lowering benefits.
- allowing Wall Street to manage it.
- Alan Simpson.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. I disagree. We should be shouting about it. SS needs a sounder footing. I am for
removing the payroll cap or at least raising it significantly. That would go a long way toward making SS more solvent.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Exactly
improvements, not theft.
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