The Big Lie Lie: Digby On Why Jon Stewart Is Wrong About Referencing Goebbels

[Hissyspit]

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/big-lie-lie.html

Friday, January 21, 2011

The Big Lie Lie

Last night Jon Stewart delivered a scathing rebuke to Representative Steve Cohen for his comment about 'The Big Lie." It was quite the lecture, serious, pointed and very aggressive. I know that I felt thoroughly chastised. After all, I've been writing about The Big Lie for years, as have many other writers. In fact, anyone with even the tiniest bit of historical knowledge knows that if you write or talk about The Big Lie, you are referencing Nazi propaganda.

Here's the Wikipedia entry:

The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, for a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." Hitler believed the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany's loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

- snip -

Now some of us reckless liberals might have said, as Steve Cohen did, that the Republican talking point accusing the health care reform of featuring euthanasia was the perfect definition of a Big Lie, in exactly the way that Goebbels defined it:

- snip -

If that isn't The Big Lie at work in our time, in living color, I don't know what is. I'm sorry the term was coined by Nazis, but that's an inconvenient fact for those who use the technique. It was coined by the Nazis, they did use it to convince the people that Jews were the reason for all their problems. These are just the facts. When you reference the Big Lie you reference the Nazis, whether or not you use the term or say the "H" word or bring up Goebbels. You can leave those out, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a Nazi propaganda technique .

- snip -

But let's not kid ourselves about one thing. Policing of the left by our putative leaders against those who are calling out The Big Lie will only result in liberals saying nothing while the right carries on with its program.

MORE

[provis99]

1. Jon Stewart is a useless asshole.

Ever since his cheesy mockery of political rallies, he's taken the bat to Democrats, as part of his idiot attitude of equating the actions and words of Democrats and Republicans.

[ellie]

6. Thank you

He is an asshole.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. The Big Lie is an effective propaganda tool...

He could have called them on using "The Big Lie" without resurrecting Goebbels.

Using "The Big Lie" doesn't make Republican Nazi's or Fascists. It does make them propagandists.

[Disintermedia8]

3. Jon Stewart is an often funny man.

By my estimation he is not very bright. And sadly, his long run at the Daily Show has begun tasting like a stale bagel. Thank goodness for the cast and Colbert, who is far brighter than Jon. I've watched TDS from Day 1 many years ago. I stopped watching the day after the DC rally.

[theophilus]

9. I have to agree. I believe Jon means well, but he wants to keep his job

no matter what (understandable) and he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so to speak. At this time this is my opinion.

[Gregorian]

15. Wow. Same here.

I never thought I'd ever stop. But as of this week, it's no longer a mandatory habitual daily exercise. It was a long long episode. I never thought it would last more than a few years.

Welcome aboard, by the way!

[Disintermedia8]

16. Thank you.

Remember Craig Kilbourne? I never thought anyone could replace him.

[Gregorian]

20. I know. I thought it was over.

But they just got better and better. I wish I could remember the early episodes. I've lived several lifetimes since then. I didn't miss more than a handful of shows over the years.

I love what they do. And the crew has always been inspiring. But I want more cutting edge. I want more fire. I'd like to see Jon be more like Bill Hicks.

The amazing part is, for a commercial show, they do get away with a lot. Hicks would never fly with sponsors. That, to me, is what is wrong with this country. Right there. Everyone except a few are bought.

[Disintermedia8]

23. Loss of diversity seems to be harmful

in many, many respects.

[LostInAnomie]

4. Nazi comparisons are almost always idiotic.

Including Cohen's.

[StarsInHerHair]

19. to rush & deny such a big pattern only ennables those who r lying-why do

you help the gigantic liars? Why do you consider the Nazi's a TABOO SUBJECT?

[LostInAnomie]

21. Because it is childish.

There have always been liars and propagandists. Why not just call them liars and propagandists?

Why is it that every time either side runs into any kind of political opposition in this country, the opposition's actions have to be directly linked to the Nazis? If it wasn't such a dangerously cynical use of the most loaded word in history, it would almost be laughable.

[StarsInHerHair]

28. why so much false equivalency? Was it childish as a Bosnia parallell?

nt

[LostInAnomie]

29. False equivalency, my ass.

Try typing in the words "Bush", "Nazi", or "Hitler" into DU's search and see how many results you get.

We're just as likely to call our political opposition Nazis as the Repubs.

[StarsInHerHair]

30. so because OTHERS have written that I GET DISMISSED? I don't think so

and yes, you're using false equivalency.

and another thing.........what about the Nazi-esque actions in Bosnia? Don't ignore that part.

[chelsea0011]

5. Jon Stewart is taking the Daily Show down. His constant nuance that

all the RW and left leaning opinion shows are all the same is a lie. He did it again last night taking down KO with his 'worst persons" gig comparing it to faux news. If he can't see the difference between KO, Big Ed, and Rachel and Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly there is no help for him. Colbert is a much funnier and much better written show. And there is no nuance.

[leftstreet]

7. Stewart participates in propaganda himself

These comic-news-entertainers are nothing more than Court Jesters

They make fun of the anti-Working Class bullshit coming from the Ruling and Political Classes, and give the peons an approved relief valve.

Not knocking him, he's pretty darn funny, just a reality check.

[jillan]

8. Rachel wasn't that impressed either with the comment.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NuclearDem]

18. Uh...I...uh....whoa

What part of the episode was that? He hasn't mentioned Keith in...well, a while.

Oh, and I get the Israel comment. Haha it's because he's Jewish, right? :eyes:

[Swamp Rat]

11. k&r

[opihimoimoi]

12. He is balanced...ying yang time.....sometimes he is a genius...other times boring...

His checks went up...pay wise.....meaning, he must be doing something funny

[IcyPeas]

13. I hardly ever miss a show....

so what if it's hit or miss sometimes. you're not gonna like it 100% of the time.

he has interesting guests most of the time too. Like those Iranian guys last night... where else would you ever come across that?

give him a break

[provis99]

14. Stewart is a worse interviewer than Larry King.

so his show is consistently crappy for at least half it's length.

[NuclearDem]

17. Right, I forgot a show on Comedy Central should be held to the same standards as CNN

:sarcasm:


Jon Stewart's always claimed his show is first and foremost a comedy show.

[Disintermedia8]

24. I am not familiar with CNN's standards.

:-)

[NuclearDem]

25. Well played, sir

:)

[Marnie]

22. "but it doesn't change the fact that this is a Nazi propaganda technique ".

Absolutely.
It is the Repocons that Stewart should be shaming for using a technique that was used to cause great harm against the Jews, not the people who point that fact out.

Lets face it is the same kind of PR lie that has allowed Europeans and Americans to enslave and slaughter millions of indigenous people and Africans.
There's not difference.

[muffin1]

26. I don't care much for comparing political opponents to Nazis, either.

But Stewart is wrong on this 'both sides are equally guilty' trip he's been on lately. I'm certainly not saying that the Dems NEVER go too far, but there is MUCH, MUCH MORE hate, lies, and violent speech coming from the right. I still watch his show, but find myself turning the channel when he goes off on one of his tangents.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. Nazi propaganda used posters, too.

But that doesn't mean that comparing Republican posters to the Nazis isn't dumb.

To justify comparing someone or something to the Nazis, there has to be something which 1) is true of both them and the Nazis and 2) is not true of many other people/things. 1) is often met; 2) very seldom.

[Kurovski]

31. Kick. (nt)

[Kurovski]

32. A snip more from the article:

Perlstein wrote about the consequences of this a couple of months ago:


We live in a mendocracy.

As in: rule by liars.

Political scientists are going crazy crunching the numbers to uncover the skeleton key to understanding the Republican victory last Tuesday.

But the only number that matters is the one demonstrating that by a two-to-one margin likely voters thought their taxes had gone up, when, for almost all of them, they had actually gone down. Republican politicians, and conservative commentators, told them Barack Obama was a tax-mad lunatic. They lied...

*clip*

When one side breaks the social contract, and the other side makes a virtue of never calling them out on it, the liar always wins. When it becomes "uncivil" to call out liars, lying becomes free.

[Kurovski]

33. One more thing...the comments are worth reading. nt