In 2007, a mentally-ill 23 year old got a gun and killed 32 at a school in Virginia

[NuclearDem]

And now, four years later, a mentally-ill 22 year old got a gun and killed 6 people at a grocery store in Tuscon.

I mean, seriously, did we all of a sudden just forget that guns + mental illness = bad shit happening? Did we just sweep VA Tech under the rug or something?

[cliffordu]

1. how many mentally ill are there in the US??

How many guns??

Do you have a valid point?

Tim McVeigh killed a shit load more people with a Ryder truck.

One COULD make the argument that anyone killing another human with a firearm is mentally ill, but that would require too much thought and sensitivity.

[NuclearDem]

2. My point was mostly it's easier to get a gun in this country than to get mental health treatment

I wasn't saying that everyone with a mental illness in this country is going to take a gun and commit violence, nor was I saying everyone with a gun was going to either.

And yes, I know McVeigh killed more people than these two combined, but McVeigh was a different case altogether.

This isn't an anti-gun rant, it's a question of how we suddenly ignored that people with serious mental illnesses are still able to get guns and carry out these acts of violence.

[cliffordu]

10. PERFECT. PERFECT PERFECT.

"My point was mostly it's easier to get a gun in this country than to get mental health treatment."

That's right it is-

I didn't get that from your OP.

[blogslut]

3. It's a lot more complicated than that

It isn't as simple as simply proclaiming that people who are mentally ill should not own guns. For one thing, there's a hell of a lot of mentally ill people who have never been diagnosed. As well, there are millions of people killed and injured by guns where drunkenness, criminal acts and sheer human anger play a part.

This problem runs much deeper and speaks to our American Society as a whole - a society where people actually believe that guns will somehow keep them safe and that everyone will shoot straight and true like Charles Bronson because we've ingrained that idea into the fabric of our national mythology.

Gun violence is a Public Health Crisis and it's damned well time we start treating it as if it were.

[NuclearDem]

4. I know that, but when the warning signs are there, and are subsequently ignored

It just makes our entire society look stupid as a whole. We know the student who carried out the VA Tech massacre had a history of mental health issues, but refused to seek treatment for it.

Now, here we are, four years later, and ANOTHER man with mental health issues that were recognized by many, never sought treatment, even though many suggested he do.

I agree 100% with what you said though.

[blogslut]

5. Proper mental health treatment

...is a very long process and while it's possible that Loughner and the young man from Virginia Tech might not have killed people had they sought counseling, that doesn't mean they wouldn't have. Eric Harris was in treatment before he killed innocents at Columbine.

Like I said, it's not so simple. Ending gun violence entirely is unrealistic. Just the same, America suffers an awful lot more gun violence than other developed nations and we need to address it as a national problem.

[defendandprotect]

6. The "complications" are the ready availability of guns in America -- !!

[blogslut]

7. It's also more complicated than that

It's a matter of why so many Americans feel the need to arm themselves. This isn't the 1850's where people have to shoot their food or kill wild critters and lame horses. There are millions of American who own guns out of some misguided idea that these weapons will keep them safe when they have no idea how they will react when actually confronted by a mortal threat.

[defendandprotect]

8. Evidently even gun owners are coming to realize that we need gun control ....

unfortunately, when the right wing begns to put something like this in place

a great deal of damage is done in the time before we get things set aright again.

In the interim, 100,000 shootings a year!

But I do agree with your overall assessment -- it is FEAR that moves people to buy

guns -- fear of the "other" guy with a gun -- fear put in place by right wing

propaganda and GOPs/NRA propaganda.

It is also sadly humorous that so many think these guns will protect them against

corrupt government! That's one of the saddest jokes of all!



:)

[Possumpoint]

9. Without A Gun

How would you react to a mortal threat?

[hunter]

14. I avoid mortal threats.

So far I've been successful.

[blogslut]

16. I don't know

And neither do you.

If you want to own a gun and you think it keeps you safe, you get to do that.

[defendandprotect]

21. We need to make sure these political zones are gun free -- imo . . .

No more right T-BAGGERS floating around at Dem town Hall Meetings with

rifles slung over their shoulders -- or guns stuffed in their pants!

[Odin2005]

11. The mentally ill are NO MORE VIOLENT THAN OTHER PEOPLE. Unrec.

Bigoted OP.

[NuclearDem]

15. Alright, I figured I get a response like this

For the record, I'm not saying ALL people with mental illnesses are prone to violence.

My point was that Seung-Hui Cho and Jared Loughner both had histories of violent outbursts and incidents that caused concern among classmates and family members, but were still able to get a hold of guns anyway. My argument would be the same if mass shootings were being perpetrated by right wing militias or white nationalists, but the last two major shootings in this country were carried out by people with mental illnesses and violent tendencies.

[JI7]

23. i think there have been a bunch of big shootings between these 2

[defendandprotect]

24. Well, they need better information -- these are the ideas they get from TV....

UNLESS someone comes forward to tell the truth about it --

Try to explain it to them -- on every thread!

I'll be happy to try to help ... and we might need more info?

Especially re how ALL homeless are suggested to be "mentally ill" -- and how

impoverished people and mentally ill so often become victims of FEAR MONGERING

about them!

:)

[Kingofalldems]

12. Gungeon on the way--they'll tell us what to do.

[Initech]

13. A mentally unstable person watched way too much Fux and shot up a UU church.

I'm noticing a pattern developing here.

[Shagbark Hickory]

17. What if someone buys a gun before they catch mental illness?

Then they find out they caught mental illness they very same day they go on a shooting rampage?

BAN THE FUCKING HI CAP MAGAZINES!!!
(At the very least!)

[blogslut]

18. While I would be open to a ban on high capacity magazine

Your statement that someone "catches" mental illness as if it were the flu is just wrong and insulting.

[Shagbark Hickory]

19. You get insulted way too easy.

However I am mildly offended by the use of the word "slut" in your username.

So now we're even.

[blogslut]

20. Really?

This is your response?

[Shagbark Hickory]

26. Ugh and you sell cigarettes?

Double whammy.

[defendandprotect]

25. Agree with banning the Hi cap magazines ... but ...

people don't "catch" mental illness --

however, I do get your point --

I think the important part of this is that the mentally ill get treatment when

they need it and that's not happening.

Also any high stress situation can push someone to violence -- wasn't there a

movie with Michael Douglass about that not so long ago? Don't think his character

was suffering "mental illness" technically.

You know we've never really called Hitler "mentally ill" --

or W or Cheney or Rumsfeld "mentally ill" -- but something is certainly very wrong

with people who want to torture others, imo!

Often the mentally ill are victims of crimes -- sometimes we hear about it, sometimes

we don't. Homeless are also very often branded as "mentally ill" and that's often

untrue. There's a lot to know about this whole subject but with so many othere things

going on it doesn't always happen.


:)

[Shagbark Hickory]

27. Its refreshing to see people recognize sarchasm and still get the point.

[vim876]

22. It's pretty simple.

Treat mental illness and guns like epilepsy and driving. If you are getting/have gotten treatment and it's under control, you get to buy a gun. If not, no dice. There's no reason to take away the rights of the mentally ill when there is a way to protect those rights while encouraging people to get help.