The involuntary commitment of the mentally ill scares us more than random horrid violence.

[alphafemale]

Which is a good thing.

After all, we don't lock up and lobotomize drunks. Who cause far more deaths, btw.

I just wish treatment and help was there for those who wanted it.

But then, people far into the grips of mental illness such as Jared Loughner or Seung-Hui Cho see "we" as the problem. They are never going to voluntarily seek treatment.

Would it even be possible, in a free society, to distinguish between random "trash talk" and actual voiced threats of violence that needed a confinement of the individual "for the better good?"

I don't know.

[TheWraith]

1. Unfortunately, no, it's not easy to filter out people who need help.

It's not easy to tell the difference between someone who is depressed because they lost their job, and who's going to try to murder their family or their former co-workers... let alone the people who are "just" going to down a fistful of painkillers.

But you're right--the reason we hesitate is because society has a truly horrible record defining both "mental illnesses" and appropriate treatment, particularly involuntarily. The fact that some people slip through the cracks is the more visible part of the equation, but the other side is just as important--the confidence that you're not going to be kidnapped, locked up, and treated like a madman because you don't act quite the same way as others.

[alphafemale]

2. Rosemary Kennedy

Possibly lobotomized for being a headstrong, willful young woman. She didn't meet Joe's standard for a Kennedy woman.

[TheWraith]

3. A perfect example of why involuntary treatment is such a taboo.

They took a 23 year old girl with severe mood swings, and in trying to "treat" her, they destroyed her brain.

[alphafemale]

7. Her story is heartbreaking.

I just hope she lost the memory and knowledge of what she had lost. The grief of those who remembered her as she had been was cumbersome enough.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

4. They don't do lobotomies and can't even force people to take meds

People who are involuntarily admitted are either suicidal or homicidal or very, very sick and unable to care for themselves and can only be held for 72 hours unless the facility goes to court for an extension. The facility can be sued and get in all kinds of trouble if they are being unjust. With the lack of dollars - no-one is at these places that doesn't belong there. Unless the "clients" are playing games and want to be there to have a roof over their heads or something. I did Baker Act admissions at a psych facility and beleive me people were not there for the fun of it. And people are sent out before they are even close to being stabilized. They just end up right back at the facility.

Most of the really sick people were begging to be admitted becasue they were frightened and very sick. The ones who were not that bad usually didn't want to be admitted and were sent on their way unless they had made some sort of suicidal/homicidal threat. If the threat was deemed not to be serious they were usually sent home the next day.

Several years ago a few private places were doing some questionable things - like admitting and keeping people too long and soaking the insurance companies. They cracked waaay down after that.

[lonestarnot]

5. Oh really. So pshycotropic drugs cannot be administered w/o consent. I call bullshit on that.

I've witnessed that with my own eyes.

[alphafemale]

6. To kids maybe.

I think the labeling of kids with ADHD etc and dosing them to a stupor with Ritalin is way over done.

The real reason Calvin and Hobbes is no longer published is because they put Calvin on Ritalin. And he's now an obedient, non-creative bore.

[MicaelS]

9. No the real reason is Calvin has been institutionalized after...

He killed his parents.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6H3LUrd_M

[old mark]

11. Kids are very seldom institutionalized in public mental hospitals...most won't accept

anyone under 18, legally adult.

mark

[alphafemale]

14. But they're prescribed some heavy drugs on a regular basis.

Some kids from about 9 to mid to late teens or occasionally beyond are naturally wildfire for awhile. I think society is tamping down some brilliant minds for the sake of uniformity.

[old mark]

16. Sure...The DSM mostly will not let an individual under 18 be diagnosed with

a mental illness-other than a "personality disorder"-the drugs given to school kids by the ton in the US is a fucking disgrace and should be stopped, but there is too much money being made on it.

I was talking about public mental hospitals, not school kids or even private institutions.


mark

[lonestarnot]

12. Ugh no, Not kids. Burn brainout through drug therapy is as good as any lobotomy ever performed.

[old mark]

10. The patient MUST consent to the treatment initially, not to every

time he is given the medicine...but to the medicine itself. This usually done via a treatment team, who discusses goals and helps the patient recover till it is time for discharge planning.
I served on a treatment team and worked in a state mental hospital for years, and that is the law, at least in most places.


mark

[lonestarnot]

13. Nope w/o consent. Doctor should have been dethrowned of his license.

[old mark]

15. It is illegal in PA and in most states-I am not sure about all of them...nt

[alphafemale]

17. So...what you witnessed was against the law then.

Did you report it?

[old mark]

8. Untill the late 1960's-even into the 1970's a husband could have his wife

institutionalized against here will pretty much on his sayso, depending on his money and political connections...Here in PA, they were doing lobotomies till the 1970's, and shock therapy till the 1980's, IIRC.

I worked at one of the PA state mental hospitals and it is very hard to get admitted to one now-you must really be dangerously ill, and most people come from other hospitals of jail.

My last job there was helpint people prepare for release into the various group homes or to independent living if appropriate...one of my folks had been in that place since the mid 1970's.

mark