I'm sick of Democrats acting like Republicans.

[kentuck]

If you have to ask whether a politician believes in Social Security or not, then he or she is probably not a Democrat.

I get tired guessing where someone stands on traditional Democratic issues. There should be no guessing.

Screw this sitting together. Just tell the truth about these conservatives and let the people decide who they want to vote for. If you don't know what the facts are, then you are probably in the wrong job?

I have lost all interest in this game-playing. People's lives are involved. Everyone is not as comfortable as those politicians in Washington. They make me sick.

[Howler]

1. +1 K&R

K&R

[gateley]

2. K&R, kentuck. Screw sitting together indeed. nt

[begin_within]

3. The Democratic party has simply sold out

... to corporations and the wealthy, and whatever special interests donate big bucks to them. Democrats rationalized this as necessary to survive in the high-dollar world of political campaigns. They thought that to remain competitive against the Republicans, they had to accept big donations. They may have been right on that point, but in doing so they cashed in their ideals, for the practicality of getting elected and staying in office. Now the same powerful vested interests in this country own both parties. That's why no progress is ever really made. The two parties that win most elections are now just factions of the same corporate-controlled party. The endless parade of skirmishes between the left and right factions of this one-party state are just a sideshow, designed to let you think there is still a democracy going on and that somehow you have a say in the big decisions. But the really big power is firmly in the hands of the moneyed interests, not the citizens of the U.S.

[grahamhgreen]

50. Except for Feingold! Oh, crap....

[Mimosa]

76. ^ No truer words ever posted , begin_within ^ n/t

[MissDeeds]

4. K&R

[Bandit]

5. IMO since Obama came on the scene there are no longer Democratic Principles.

When his Administration says "Everything is Negotiable" they mean it.. They have no core beliefs..

[molly77]

41. It started with clinton and the third way

Bill and rahm going all over the country to find neocons who were willing to call themselves democrats and then throwing money and support at them. But not to true democrats. Just like karl rove changed the us justice system .By stacking it. You always get the decision you want.

[truedelphi]

74. It actually goes way back to the Reagan era

Dukakis had Bentsen as his VP largely so that someone conservative could help him swing through the South.

But hey, if you wanna blame Rahm, or Clinton, heck, I don't care. I sure blame them a lot also.

[LawnLover]

6. They've been doing that for twenty years

What else is new?

[obxhead]

7. Both parties are corrupted.

I speak with a few sensible Republicans and they are infuriated with their party as well.

The real problem is they are neither Dems or Repubs. They are corporatist elites fighting for their owners interests.

Maybe the answer is a third party. I genuine corporate party where these Democrats and Republicans can be forced into to show their true colors. Then it's possible we can one day return to genuine Democratic values.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Citizen Worker]

62. First, we must build a second party, then we can talk about a third party. What we have now is the

left wing and the right wing of the same bird of prey, or Business Party #1, and Business Party #2. It really is that simple.

[liberation]

72. I don't know...

... I think this bird of prey is flying with two right wings, apparently.

[INdemo]

88. I agree..We need a real progressive candidate to step forward soon

[old mark]

8. K&R- at least the republicans are somewhat honest about it...Democrats still

pretend to be on our side...
I recall before the 2008 election, several people here took me to task because I stated my belief that ALL politicians were scum...Are you starting to see my point?

mark

[somone]

10. It's still a matter of debate

as to whether they're scum or whores. But they're not working for us.

[old mark]

31. Well, can't they be BOTH? After all they are our Leaders, and the flower of American Society...

Just ask them-they will tell you.

Let's try to find some common ground! (sorry, couldn't resist...) ;)

mark

[femrap]

95. They're

whorey scum or scummy whores. And no one cares about We, The People. Maybe Kucinich? But since Ohio will lose 2 Congressional seats, I'm sure he's on the list.

Nope, We, The People are on our own....and what's sh*t is coming ain't pretty. Get prepared.

[somone]

9. Potemkin village

while the pillaging proceeds

[Javaman]

94. That thought wandered around in the back of my mind as well...

It thought it a good speech, but there is the old reality thing.

Propping up the facade is nice, but even the support beams of that same facade need to be replaced now and then. LOL

Anyone paying attention to the political process since the dawn of time will not be the least bit surprised by a leader promising this or that but fails to explain how it is to be paid for. Last night, we got a glossing over of how it was all to be paid for, but it seems to me exactly how that money materializes relies a lot on "if's and but's".

If this happens blah blah blah, but if that happens blah blah blah.

Lot's of words on the whole "streamlining of government" concept. Lots of the "more efficient" idea, lots of this and lots of that.

Bottom line, if the repukes continue in their now genetic trend of saying "no" to everything, Mr. Obama's words will be the epitaph of "what could have been".

Sadly, since the repukes have gone on record regarding rolling back this and cutting that, I fear that this speech will be looked upon as a president trying to kick metaphorical ass with no feet.

[Safetykitten]

11. Kentuck, you are missing the big picture.

Like the HC reform fiasco, there are advantages in confusion. Just as now the republicans want to repeal it, Obama giving out waivers like candy, and who, what and home planet birth are all up in the air, two things are accomplished. Nobody is really held responsible and everyone can point fingers.

So think of the advantage to being just like the republicans, kinda like a 21st century Rockefeller party. When the shit hits the fan, who DO you blame? We believe what they believe, and the finer points, well it's too confusing to sort out.

See?

[disillusioned73]

86. That's good stuff...

right there with you. The electorate is way too distracted and will continue to be - "they" know this...:dem:

[bobbolink]

92. There's one group of us who are NOT confused..... we poor folk see the plain writing on the wall.

We are under attack by both sides, and we KNOW it.

While the rest of you are busy running around being confused, we know for whom the bell tolls.

We are beginning to say our goodbyes.

[Poboy]

12. Recommend

[harun]

13. I'm sick of all the people in positions to make decisions about SS being

people who have no need for it whatsoever.

It won't fare well for the outcome.

[Hello_Kitty]

26. True that. Notice they don't go after Medicare nearly as much.

Not surprising since even most affluent Villagers probably don't feel confident that they can self-insure major old age medical expenses for themselves or family members.

[harun]

35. Very true. Affluent people I know are well aware their fortunes would

vanish if they had to pay all their own late life medical bills.

[Radical Activist]

14. Obama has been perfectly consistent about his support for social security.

I also get sick of the game being played by those pundits who engage in wild speculation and fear mongering. They're not being honest with us and they make me sick.

Obama won't endorse raising retirement age or reducing Social Security benefits
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/24/AR2011012403472.html

[boston bean]

15. reducing SS benefits for who? those receiving them now. That's not new.....

Has he explicitly said he is not against cutting them at all, in any way?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boston bean]

18. We'll see.........

I might have pulled it right off of Obama's Presidential Deficit Commission Report....

[Radical Activist]

21. Which Obama has never endorsed,

as the article I linked points out.

But sure, keep calling it "Obama's Presidential Deficit Commission." Because that's not a misleading attempt to imply he endorses it or anything. :eyes:

What we're seeing is a vindication of those who said SS is too politically popular to cut significantly and that the pundits/bloggers who engaged in hysterical fear-mongering were full of shit.

[boston bean]

25. Was it not a Presidential Commission appointed after the senate refused too?

Is his non endorsement really that important, when he repeatedly states everything is on the table.

I assume that means his commissions recommendations.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boston bean]

29. Facts, you don't even want to recognize it's his commission and accuse me of altering facts....

Please, I don't buy it. I am not making any assumptions.

i have not said one thing that is not factual.

What does "EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE" mean to you?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestate10]

45. Obama has stated the he will not take the recs on SS.

How does he have to say that to make it clear? Let focus on the real fights and stop making stuff up.

[jtown1123]

91. When did he say this? Link? His Admin. Officials never took it off the table...

[Smashcut]

33. He created and staffed it.

It's his commission.

The fact that he isn't "endorsing" it means dick, especially when he hasn't explicitly taken any options off the table.

[treestar]

23. +1 million

Why does a question "have to be asked" because some pundit made up a possible scare!

[bluestate10]

47. It is trendy to make up stuff that scares people.

But that effort to win advantage is ultimately self defeating. As some progressives become more shrill, other progressives are splitting off from the and joining moderates to form winning support for the President.

[rhett o rick]

96. What makes your crystal ball better than anyone elses? nm

[Greybnk48]

16. Amen Kentuck.

No real Democrat would EVER even consider a cut to SS, or raising the age. EVER!

[supernova]

19. You and me both, Kentuck

Which is why we Dems out in the counties need to periodically shake up the leadership, vote all of them out of office in favor of local people we know. We can't allow people like Rahm Emmanuel to presume that they can simply appoint their own teachers' pets to Congress. I'm looking at you Heath Shuler.

[blindpig]

20. Maybe they are acting like Democrats.

Perhaps people expect the Democratic Party to be things that it isn't.

I think people believe that Democratic Party = New Deal. Yet the New Deal was an expediency adopted to stave off the radicalization of the working class. With the purported 'end of socialism' and the emasculation of the union movement, starting with Taft-Hartley, the conditions which made it useful to capitalist's survival are no longer operative. They will begin driving the final nail into the New Deal's coffin in the next few months and the situation will return to historical normal. Capitalist's normal.

If the Democratic Party is so pro working class why has Taft-Hartey not been repealed in the last fifty years, given the majorities, mandates? They have been the flexible, innovative party of Capital, but are still firmly committed to capitalism and thus the enemy of the working class, the good cop but still a cop.

[treestar]

22. Extremists on both sides say things like this

But you don't "have to" ask. You're only asking because you're letting extremists pull your chain.

[RainDog]

46. so support for social security is an "extremist" position?

in what universe?

[Forkboy]

69. Treestar doesn't know what he wants until Obama says so.

Then he'll drop to his knees, toot sweet.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

24. I'm sick of career politicians acting like buffoons

And getting rewarded for it by being re-elected.

[ProSense]

28. I don't like Republicans or Democrats who vote like Republicans, but

I know what it looks like when a Democrat acts like a Democrat.

[Bluenorthwest]

87. Any Democrat opposed to equal rights for all is more than acting

They ARE Republicans. I'm a Democrat for many reasons, but civil rights are a foundational reason, yours, mine, theirs, all of ours. Anyone who is in favor of discrimination and various sets of rules foisted on others from ancient mythologies is a Republican, and not one of the bright Republicans either, to the right of Cheney on social issues.
It is that simple, you can not be opposed to equality and be an actual Democrat. You can call yourself one, but hell, people call themselves good looking.

[samsingh]

30. kick

me too

[RedCloud]

32. we need to start the Beer Party, the Pizza Party and the Orgy Party. Fear us!

Let those tea baggers suck pond scum.

[Still a Democrat]

34. If you have to ask whether Obama believes in Social Security or not,

you probably read DU too much and need to read a newspaper.

[inna]

37. completely agree. "sitting together" is particularly ridiculous and even offensive, imo.

[sabrina 1]

38. Imagery. They think we are children who are easily fooled.

That is because they are so far removed from the people who elected them, they cannot understand how little their talking points and imagery and propaganda means to the average American.

The press, rather than focus on real issues, will spend days analyzing who sat with whom and why. Trivia that could do without.

I hope I hear a strong condemnation of the attempt to tie SS to the Deficit. And I hope I hear that they are going to start prosecuting War Criminals and Wall St. Criminals.

Who sits where is of little interest to me. We know there is only one party, they may as well give up the act that we are still living in a Democracy anyhow.

In fact, it's probably appropriate for them all to sit together. Most of them are part of the same team and it is not our team.

[LibDemAlways]

58. Discussing who sat with whom is a huge waste of time. The average

American barely knows who Biden is much less any of the Senators or Congressmen. People don't give a shit who sat where. What people want to know is that they have a secure job, Social Security and Medicare down the road, and enough money to "get by." They'd also like to think that bad guys won't get away with their crimes and that justice will be served. Anything else is superfluous.

[KoKo]

63. "They Think We Are Children Who Are Easily Fooled"

"...That is because they are so far removed from the people who elected them, they cannot understand how little their talking points and imagery and propaganda means to the average American."

--------

You know Sabrina...that's an EXCELLENT POINT YOU MAKE... I've thought what you are saying now for over a year. I'm glad you brought that up! :thumbsup:


"They think we are children who are easily fooled"....... WRITTEN IN MY BRAIN....like some damned MEME!

[Enthusiast]

81. Ever the voice of reason. Plus one. nt

[pam4water]

39. K&R!

[QC]

40. Kick!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestate10]

44. Well.

As Tip O'Neill opined, all politics is local. Get involved in the administration of your district, convince like minds to join you. Or, accept that people that do not agree with you are making an effort to get involved locally and impose their will on those that complain but don't get involved.

[fasttense]

80. Until the American people start massive protests in the street

our corporate aristocracy will rule us, through both Democratic and RepubliCON parties.

[Mnemosyne]

48. Holding hands and skipping - how bipartisan. n/t

[defendandprotect]

49. +1 --

[colsohlibgal]

51. Me Too

I didn't put myself through watching this dog and pony thing, but just heard a clip of Obama saying that he was sure none of us would trade living in the US for elsewhere. That may have once been true but anyone not rich would be in a much better situation in about anywhere in Scandinavia, where the conservatives are way left of most of our democrats. Where they don't waste zillions on wars and defense costs. Where they can get cheap good health care and educate their children without anyone going way into debt. Middle class nirvana as far as I can see.

[Enthusiast]

82. Well he is flat out wrong

about that. There is any number of civilized nations I would move to, if they would have me, Canada included.

[adnelson60087]

52. The Rot begins at the head and goes down quickly.

We'd better hope SOMEONE will try a Contested Primary or we are in trouble.

[truedelphi]

53. Same sentiments here. And what FDR once said:

I have posted this before, but tonight it does seem like re-posting this short interview
is not a Bad Idea.

Young reporter (To FDR): "So are you a Capitalist?"

FDR: "No."

Young reporter: "Then are you a socialist?"

FDR: "No."

<pause>

Young Reporter: "So then, what are you?"

FDR: "I am a Democrat!"

[RowdyRacer]

54. One more time...

Republicans = Harlem Globetrotters
Democrats = Washington Generals
Americans = Suckers who keep paying to watch the "game".

[Enthusiast]

83. Plus one! nt

[bertman]

55. I'm so sick of it, Kentuck, that I can't even throw up any more when I hear the word

"bipartisanship".

REC.

[russspeakeasy]

56. Tell the truth? "Shirley, you jest".

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[inna]

61. vile and completely unnecessary personal attack

disgusting

[patrice]

59. I'm sick of inflated-ego buzz addiction. nt

[KoKo]

60. I missed Obama's Speech to America... I take it that it was Ambiguous?

No one is quite sure what he means going forward? He was not clear about where he stands on Social Security and Medicare?

I missed the speech...but from this and looking around DU...where there's mostly silence on it...that he was not "sucking up to the LEFT of the Dem Party...and maybe even the DLC didn't like it because I see no posts here on DU .....so far.. either Lauding ..or Critical of it..... More of Passive or push back on what he didn't get to or obfuscated about. :shrug:

[MadBadger]

64. This thread is from 14 hours ago

[KoKo]

65. From 14 Hours AGO!....Okay....I though he gave speech at 9:00 EST...

But, if it's what you refer to back then...it's out of date...whatever...I don't see much new when I've hit all the Forums about what Obama said in his speech, though. :shrug: I'll go over to Huff Po, for the LEFT SPIN and Politico for the RIGHT SPIN...and then TOMORROW for what he REALLY SAID from the MS SPIN?

[glinda]

66. kick

[Skittles]

67. they are not acting

[woo me with science]

70. The system is corrupt. It is depressing as hell. nt

[kimsarah]

73. Here, here

:think:

[PufPuf23]

71. A Democrat does not put SSI in doubt except to improve benefits.

A neo-liberal or neo-conservatives plays Machiavellian lies and games to confuse.

[kath]

75. A Democrat does not support tax cuts for the richest 2%,

especially when the top marginal tax rate is already ridiculously low.

[StarsInHerHair]

77. k and r up to 178

nt

[apocalypsehow]

78. 177 replies; 83 Recs, not including my UnRec. Proof positive that the current Rec/UnRec system works

contrary to previous assertions to the contrary.

[Enthusiast]

79. Plus one, brother! K&R

We should promote strict partisanship based on what the other side espouses as sound policy.

[Myrina]

84. I think the sitting together was very significant ...

... a silent 'fuck you' to all of us average joe's ... to let us know that it really is us against them anymore, rather than us being able to count on (most of) them for representation.

[ewagner]

85. Whoohoo Kentuck!

Enough weasaling and waffeling......say where you stand and stand where you say!!!!

Proud of ya Kentuck!!!!!

[Action]

89. The Art of Compromise

I'm tired of folks who do not know how our government works and just complain about not getting what they want. If DC did work together (they use to back in the day), things would get done. Would everyone be happy? Of course not. That is what politics really is: The art of compromise

We all know that repubs threw that out many years ago, which is why we are where we are today.

All or nothing means nothing gets done.

Personally, I'd rather get something instead of nothing.

Most Americans would agree.

[leeroysphitz]

90. Excellent summary of the problem with the last 2 years or so. n/t

[lonestarnot]

93. K & R!