New York Considers E-Cigarette Ban

[coti]

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2011/ny-considers-e-cigarette.html

Lawmakers in New York have proposed a statewide ban on electronic cigarettes, the Associated Press reported Jan. 25.

The bill was introduced by a former smoker, Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal (D-Manhattan), after she saw e-cigarettes on sale at malls and encountered ads for them online.

...

Proponents of e-cigarettes say they are healthier than cigarettes and should be legal. Elaine Keller, of the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association, said that the "wheezing and productive morning cough" she acquired after 45 years of smoking vanished after she switched to e-cigarettes in March 2009.

Keller dismissed concerns about the safety of the devices. "I can't point to anything to say it's 100 percent safe," she said. "The thing is, it only needs to be safer. The only standard is that it's safer than smoking."

(more)

-----------------

http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/33581-1272607442-new-york-ban-of-electronic-cigarettes-threatens-public-health.html

Doctors say New York Ban of Electronic Cigarettes Threatens Public Health

The American Association of Public Health Physicians has stated that electronic cigarettes “could save the lives of 4 million of the 8 million current adult American smokers who will otherwise die of a tobacco-related illness over the next 20 years." Despite this fact, Sen. Jeffrey Klein has proposed legislation, S7234, which would ban the sale of electronic cigarettes in the state of New York.

Online PR News – 30-April-2010 –According to the American Association of Public Health Physicians, electronic cigarettes “could save the lives of 4 million of the 8 million current adult American smokers who will otherwise die of a tobacco-related illness over the next 20 years."

Why, then, is Sen. Jeffrey Klein (D-34th District) proposing legislation (S7234) that would ban the sale of e-cigarettes in the state of New York? Consumer advocates and public health experts demand an answer.

“To take electronic cigarettes off the market is to deny smokers a much safer alternative that is likely saving lives and improving the public health,” wrote Dr. Michael Siegel (tobaccoanalysisblogspot.com), professor at Boston University School of Public Health.

Similar laws were recently rejected in Maryland, Utah, Illinois, and California, where lawmakers proposed bans largely based on an FDA press release from July 2009. Dr. Murray Laugesen, of Health New Zealand, had harsh criticism for the FDA's actions, saying the FDA "... condemned electronic cigarettes for containing cancer-causing nitrosamines. However, the levels in FDA-approved nicotine gum and patch are similar, and in cigarettes, much higher (up to 5000 times higher).”

(more)

[JonLP24]

1. Ugh...

I'm smoking an E-cig right now and it is sooooo much better than a regular cigarette and not as harsh either. Plus second hand smoke effects is pretty much non-existent.

[coti]

3. Vape on.

;)

[Lance_Boyle]

2. Idiots. Criminalizing harm reduction is absurd.

And e-cigs are very much a harm reduction strategy.

[coti]

6. Totally agreed. This is about control and money. And education.

The FDA has been trying to get their hands on e-cigs for a couple of years now but have been having a lot of trouble. So lawmakers are switching strategies. I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for the FDA to regulate, as long as they didn't restrict access (for adults) or make it more expensive. At the moment, vaping is MUCH less expensive than smoking, which is one of its primary upsides.

It was good to see that bans have already been rejected in several other states.

Mostly, e-cigarettes need public education. People don't understand what they are and just how much better they are than cigarettes, and in how many ways.

[napi21]

4. That's just foolish! Lots of people use e-cigs to stop smoking.

I thought that was what all (except Boner) congressmen wanted.

[name not needed]

12. That's the problem.

People quit smoking, less revenue from sin taxes.

[napi21]

29. Ig=h for god sake! You can't win with hese people! nt

[ohheckyeah]

5. Think of the children.

Isn't that usually the excuse for controlling adult behavior?

[Lance_Boyle]

9. That's probably the most pernicious way they're going after e-cigs.

The flavors are "appealing to kids." Unfortunately the flavors are appealing to me, too. They'll pry my double-flavor blueberry juice from my cold dead hands.

[True_Blue]

68. Blueberry is my favorite

Strawberry/banana is a strong second. I don't think I could stand to smoke a regular cig again.

[Jkid]

45. More like...think of their (read: politicans) children.

[madville]

7. Just trying to protect their tax revenues on real cigarettes

If they can't ban them next they will attempt to tax them in some way.

[Fla_Democrat]

49. Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner

No more calls, please.



:smoke:

[Bryn]

8. Blah! Who can trust anyone anymore? Big Pharma?

I am using e-cigarettes. I will continue to vape on ...

[Newest Reality]

10. This is trivial and rediculous ...

as if New York doesn't have any other, far more important and pressing issues other than wasting time deciding what people can't do.

Fuck. Enough bullshit control.

Oh, wait, could the electronic cigarettes be impacting the tobacco industry and their lobbyists? I remember when they passed a 2000-percent tax on bulk cigarette tobacco not long ago. A small industry was growing around bulk, tubes and machines that would allow a smoker to cut their cost down to about 85-cents a pack. Plus, you could smoke untreated, natural tobacco if you wanted to.

So, despite the evangelical, anti-smoking crowd, there is a product and a consumer of it. If I could afford it, I would love to "vape" again, as I have tried it and it is easier on the membranes and lungs and doesn't stink-up your clothing and environment. You can vape them anywhere, (even with the false coughs of those ex-smokers who think your vapor is deadly smoke) and your sense of smell and taste gets better, as well. Win-win.

[Ter]

11. Dictators

Sadly, this is why the Tea Party wins.

[TheWraith]

18. Exactly. This is the sort of authoritarian shit that gives Dems and government a bad name.

Unfortunately there is a certain sect of Dems, who seem to pop up most in the big cities like NYC, SF, and LA, that simply want to run people's lives. Reminds me of the laws in San Francisco banning pets and fast food, or the law in NYC banning the sale of things which resemble toy guns--even brightly colored sci-fi rayguns.

[krabigirl]

24. The tea party does exactly the same thing.

[William769]

13. E-Cigarettes Actually helped me kick the habit altogether!

Smoke free for 3 months now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Me too. 6 months for me. After, 40 years of smoking.

[Mosby]

30. That's great

That you and W-769 stopped smoking using e-cigs. I was a 30 year two pack a day smoker myself, and used a prescription nicotine inhaler to quit.

There is this wierd orthodox element in the fda that is very resistant to different strategies to stop smoking. The inhalers I used e.g. Are prescribed differently in the us vs. europe and australia because the people at the fda don't believe the nicotine replacement therapies should ever be used in conjunction with tobacco. It almost seems like they don't want people to stop smoking.

[alittlelark]

25. I started the E-cig the day after Thanksgiving

Smoke free ever since.

[William769]

28. Does that also include the E-Cigarette?

If so good for you!

I have been smoke free plus E-Cigarette free for 3 months.

[StevieM]

57. Congratulations! I'm using the nicorette gum, myself (eom)

[Atypical Liberal]

14. Should not be banned.

These things should not be banned if they are safer than actual cigarettes. I would not be surprised to see the tobacco lobby behind this effort.

However, I do think these things should be regulated so that they stay out of the hands of kids, if they are not already.

[Matariki]

15. Puritanical dislike of the way they LOOK. And little more than that.

[spin]

16. Why is it that politicians, especially Democrats, love banning items?

Prohibition never works.

Sometimes (like now) I think we should ban politicians.

edited to add comment

[krabigirl]

22. Because they think that the state should be able to tell you what you can or cannot consume.

Both parties are exactly the same in this regard.

[FiveGoodMen]

32. "Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave...

...o're the Land of the Perpetually-Willing-to-Give-Up-Every-Right-At-the-Drop-of-a-Hat..."

[TheKentuckian]

19. Nanny state authoritarians are just as harmful as the usual Reich wing variety

Fuck Jeffery Klein and his fellow travelers.

[Odin2005]

20. Nanny-Statists SUCK.

[jberryhill]

21. Been vaping for a while

I can taste and smell things, and feel a whole lot better.

[krabigirl]

23. Ridiculous nanny state crap that will fail. People will buy them anyway, and they should.

[DirkGently]

26. Idiotic. (the ban)

[eppur_se_muova]

27. As a life-long anti-smoker, this strikes me as plain stupid.

If e-cigs produce so much less second-hand smoke, I'm all for seeing them allowed in some areas where smoking is otherwise banned.

Oh, and has anyone asked the fire marshalls about this? I'm willing to bet they'd like to see all cigarettes replaced by e-cigs.

(Though I wish they'd been named electric rather than electronic ... just my quibble.)

[cbdo2007]

31. there are still studies that need to be done - but so far the research points to the e-cigs

as being a good thing.

Sure, I'm still worried about second hand "vapor" so an e-cigger is still going to get an earful if they blow vapor in my face, but they are helping a lot of people kick the real smokes.

[ohheckyeah]

64. Oh for fucks sake

really? You're worried about the vapor and are ready to get up in someone's face over it? Frankly, that sounds rather neurotic.

[cbdo2007]

70. Yes, someone blowing smoke or vapor in your face is very intrusive.

I don't care how "safe" they think it is, don't prove your point by making me breathe it.

[customerserviceguy]

33. I'm not clear on how these things work

Is there any actual tobacco in them, or are they just something to suck on?

[TK421]

34. From what I'm told, it is all water vapor

those I have spoken to about them that use them are pretty happy

[William769]

35. Hopefully this will answer your question.

http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/do-electronic-cigarettes-work-480221.html

[customerserviceguy]

41. Thanks, I appreciate that

Not a smoker, and not personally interested in them, but I wanted to be informed before I took a stand on this issue.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

36. They contain a liquid nicotine solution.

So you take a drag just like a real cigarette and get the nicotine and exhale an odorless vapor -- it's a cigarette without the tobacco, tar or carcinogens.

[customerserviceguy]

42. But it is a nicotine delivery system

Just like the gum, I would suppose. It seems that the two things should be subject to the same regulatory scheme. I'm not in favor of taking them away from cigarette smokers who want to use them to quit a more harmful product, but I'm not keen on the idea of getting kids hooked on nicotine, either.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

46. They're not marketed towards non-smokers.

[customerserviceguy]

47. Neither are cigarettes, theoretically

But we know how that turns out.

I'm still not sure how I feel about them. They 'model' smoking, while nicotine gum just models gum chewing. Peer pressure is a principle reason kids take up smoking, I don't see how this e-cigarette does anything to discourage that.

[coti]

52. It's about harm reduction. Think birth control.

;)

It's pretty hard to argue with.

[customerserviceguy]

54. Good example

In your example, there is a "kids will do it anyway" versus "if we allow this, we encourage more of it" debate. I can see that happening with this.

[coti]

62. You got it exactly. nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

53. There comes a point where "What about the children?" needs to stop.

It's really annoying having to base everything in this country on the risk that some dumbass kid might get involved.

[customerserviceguy]

55. Agreed, but if nicotine is a drug

and these e-cigarettes are nicotine delivery systems, I would expect some regulation as to how they work. With a piece of gum, you're only going to get a certain amount of nicotine, if one of these e-cigarettes malfunctions, perhaps a large amount will be delivered.

I guess it's like the methadone vs. heroin debate we had in the 1970's, and the clean needle exchange programs of the Eighties. Each side had its proponents and its arguments.

[JonLP24]

51. Tobacco products and gum are regulated differently

I'm not sure what the specifics are but a judge overruled the FDA's decision that they should be treated as drug/medical products but rather as tobacco products.

[Doremus]

58. Do you really think a kid is going to buy a $100 e-cig starter kit than a $5 pack of regular cigs?

I don't.

Weak argument, at best, dreamed up by the PTB to try to maintain control of a revenue stream.

[customerserviceguy]

60. OK, I had no idea how much they cost

Thanks for informing me. You're right, they wouldn't shell out that kind of dough, even if a pack of smokes were $10.

Besides, if it's peer acceptance you're looking for, I doubt that the e-cigarette would give you the kind of cred that you want, only the real thing would do, I suppose. I've never smoked, and I really don't know that much about it. At this time it seems to me that whatever regulations are appropriate for nicotine gum, they would probably be OK for this product. It does alleviate the secondhand smoke issue, that's for sure, and that's a good thing.

[Doremus]

63. There are a variety of prices, but all are more than the cost of a pack of cigs.

That's the reason the fed's red herring about kids getting started on them is so silly.

I fully expect the FDA to eventually hand them over to PhRMA so they can reap the profits instead of these small upstart co's.

[True_Blue]

67. The kits are expensive

but in the long run e-cigs are cheaper than regular cigs. But I agree that kids aren't likely to put out the money for a kit.

[greyl]

61. They *may* contain nicotine. You can also fill them with 0% nicotine juice. nt

[Digit]

79. I use an e-cig and use the drip method

Purchasing the flavor (and strength of nicotine) you desire enables you to cut down to zero nicotine level. Other styles use cartridges which are pre-filled with the juice.

I have a Joye Ego model I purchased as a starter kit and prefer to "drip" my liquid into the device.
I purchased some drip tips to go with my Joye. Currently I am using vanilla at 18mg strength although I started at 24mg.
I purchased mine at e-cigsupply.com out of AZ...I have no affiliation with them. They offered a discount for first time buyers and the shipping was free since my order was over a certain dollar amt.

You can check out vapersforum.com for more info. Jump into the chat room and they will answer any questions.

[JonLP24]

39. Nicotine

They also make non-nicotine juices that I'm not sure what those are made out of.

[customerserviceguy]

43. If the juices are non-addictive

then I can't see any reason why they should be regulated.

[greyl]

65. Propylene Glycol and/or Vegetable Glycerine are the main ingredients of all e-cig juice.

They can also include water, alcohol, flavors and coloring, like this Cinnamon Danish Swirl Coffee juice for e-cigs..

[Ratty]

37. More info on E-cigarettes please?

This looks fascinating. I'm trying to quit smoking and this looks like an interesting way to go about it. I've tried to quit many times before and while it seems E-cigarettes may not be the best method I'm thinking they're a better alternative to giving up. When I feel I can't do it anymore and have an irresistible urge to smoke I would like to try one of these first and maybe that will keep me on track.

Problem is there's so much out there and the different options are dizzying. I don't know where to start. Where does one go to buy them? They weren't at my Walgreens and there really wasn't much on Amazon that seemed useful. Does anyone feel they can recommend a specific brand or if not that, point me to someplace where brands are discussed and evaluated? It's really hard to separate the wheat from the chaff out there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Here's what I use.

http://www.greensmoke.com/catalog/electric-cigarette-cartridges/cat_4.html

[coti]

44. Some beginner info on e-cig models:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ShanBurkholder#p/f/6/XZQZabwNFts

That's if you're looking for a "disposable" model that's less expensive, just to try before committing more money.


If you want to make the long-term commitment to vaping, the model you'd likely want to go with (by popular opinion) is the Joye eGo 510. It's the newest "top-of-the-line" and most people (on YouTube, for example- you'll see Jan starting with that model in the vid above) who are into vaping and have really looked around use it and say it's the best all-around. It doesn't look like a cigarette, but the rest of its specs basically make it the most effective while still being easy to use.

YouTube Joye eGo 510 reviews:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joye+ego+review&aq=0

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

71. I have eGos and others like the eGo. Riva and VGO and they're fabulous. As a former

heavy smoker, they work wonderfully.

[Ratty]

73. Youtube!

I should have thought to go there. The regular web is too choked up with people trying to make a buck and creating sham sites to up their placement in Google. The nice thing about Youtube is for the most part spammers haven't discovered it yet and it's easier to find stuff by real people.

I particularly like the first link you posted. I think cheap and disposable is the way I want to go. I'm not looking to start a new expensive habit but rather use them occasionally and as needed to quit the habit I already have. I went to the Madvapes site and it's pretty cheap for a kit. I'll need to add some extra cartridges - I don't want something with a lot of nicotine as I'm already on the patch.

Thanks very much for the info!

[coti]

77. You're welcome.

Good luck to you, though I think you may be pleasantly surprised at how effective e-cigs can be.

[Digit]

80. Yep, I did a ton of reading to come to this conclusion

The Joye Ego 510 was the best device for my purposes.
The only thing different I did was purchasing drip tips to add to the convenience.

[Michigan-Arizona]

48. Where are you located?

I'm in Tucson, AZ. & at all our mall's here you can try one to see if you like it, you don't have to buy it. I tried it there & I did buy, it's called GreenNicotine. Best of luck if you do decide to try the electronic cig..... Try there web site to see if they are at a mall near you or one of the Indian Reservations...... www.GreenNicotine.com

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

72. Please read this post if mine. I think it will help.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9204804&mesg_id=9204804

[Ratty]

74. Outstanding thread

Thanks for pointing it out. Lots of new information for me. Wish me luck!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

75. Thanks Ratty and of course I wish you the best of luck! :)

[coti]

78. I remembered seeing your post when I began researching them.

Thanks for that.

I've been smoke-free (with the only exception of two bummed analogs when I ran out of e-juice on a trip) for two weeks now, and I'm not feeling any urges to buy or smoke real cigarettes. I'm very optimistic. :)

[The Straight Story]

40. Banners gonna ban, haters gonna hate - me, will stick with YOUR body, your choice

anyone who does not agree with that is trying to control my life and choices - and they can go screw themselves :)

[fishwax]

50. yeesh n/t

[krispos42]

56. Genius

:sarcasm:

[Doremus]

59. I was able to quit a 30+year 3 pack a day smoking habit with e-cigs.

I've been smoke-free since June 2009. Nothing else worked. I hope they don't screw it up for the people that patches, gum, etc. don't help.

[chill_wind]

66. On the bright side, FDA Loses Second Court Battle over E-Cigarettes

For now, anyway.

January 26, 2011

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has lost another round in its battle to regulate electronic cigarettes as drug-delivery devices rather than as tobacco products, The Wall Street Journal reported Jan. 24.

E-cigarettes are battery-powered devices that heat cartridges of liquid containing nicotine to create a mist that users inhale. The FDA classifies them as drug-delivery devices like nicotine patches and gums – products that it must approve before they can be marketed.

In December, a three-judge appeals panel in the District of Columbia (D.C.) disagreed with the FDA's position. The panel ruled that the FDA could only regulate e-cigarettes as drug delivery devices if purveyors made claims that their products would help people quit smoking or had other benefits.

The FDA appealed the decision, but the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit sided with the e-cigarette industry. The agency is now considering whether to take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2011/fda-loses-second-court-battle.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

69. In NY. 5 months yesterday smoke-free after 43 yrs, 3 packs a day. Ecigs did it for me.

I get all my ecigarette supplies over the internet from all over the country. Screw NY. All they want is the obscene tax revenue from cigarette sales. $10 a pack here.

[jmowreader]

76. I can see a ban on white ones, but not an overall ban

I've said it before, but if someone starts smoking a white e-cig in a place where tobacco cigarettes are not allowed to be used, some damn fool is going to think the sign doesn't really mean what it says and light up. Won't someone think of the morans?

But the black ones or the blue ones? Or pink for the ladies? Those would be fine; last I checked no one was making blue cigarettes.

[kudzu22]

81. What is it with New Yorkers?

They just love banning things.