Why Men Don't Listen to Women

[katty]

more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-leahy-phd/why-men-dont-listen-to-wo_b_808187.html

Robert Leahy, Ph.D..Director of the American Institute for Cognitive Therapy
Posted: January 27, 2011 08:26 AM

In a recent posting I identified a list of the wrong things to say to someone who is upset. Interestingly, this led to a lot of comments on The Huffington Post, which got me thinking. The first thought I had was, "Why do men find it so hard to validate women?"

Before I get into this, I'd like you to think about the research by psychologist John Gottman. Gottman has been able to predict with 91 percent accuracy which couples will end up getting divorced. He calls these "The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse" -- along with other problematic styles of communication. The Four Horsemen are Criticism ("You are always whining"), Contempt ("You're a basket case"), Defensiveness ("I'm not the problem, you are!") and Stonewalling (withdrawing or becoming silent). Other problematic styles include starting the conversation in a hostile or intense style, giving off body-language that is defensive or cold, flooding your partner with negativity, and bringing up past memories, complaints and injuries. When you can predict divorce with 91 percent accuracy you know you are on to something.

Now I don't want to claim that men are always the problem -- or that they are even more likely to be the problem than women are. No group is innocent, no group is perfect. But I can see that a lot of times men have a great deal of difficulty validating and emotionally supporting the women in their lives. Here are some reasons.

[FormerDittoHead]

1. How long is this going to be? Just get to the point, please.

:sarcasm:

[stevedeshazer]

2. Well, I guess I'm among the 9%

My wife has put up with me for 30 years and she still thinks I'm a good listener.

Good communication is what works best in any relationship, dontcha think?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

3. Works both ways.

There are a lot of women who don't listen to men, either. Dear Hubby had an ex who said "Men don't know how to help in the kitchen" and other things that were not true in his case. Nobody can say "ALL men do this" or "ALL women do that". Some people of both genders act like jerks.

There are just a lot of insensitive, judgmental recta (because I don't wanna say "assholes") out there of both genders.

[enough]

7. Absolutely. I am a woman and mother of two adult daughters. I was reading this

and thinking that you could reverse the genders and it's just about the same thing.

[seabeyond]

9. i had a woman tell my son in the grocery store laughing, .... men dont know anything about cooking

my son and i were discussing what sauce we wanted for dinner. she butted in to make the quip. a joke. i was suppose to laugh. but it wasnt funny. my hubby cooks better than i. and i certainly dont want to condition my son that "genetically" he is incapable of taking care of himself.

works both ways.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

24. My wife and M.I.L are terrible cooks.

MIL invited me over for homemade lasagna once... didn't even know you have to cook the pasta. I was there when they grenaded a potato in the oven once too (ever blow up a potato? I thought it was a myth but this was like a grenade coating the whole inside of the oven with potato goo. Glorious). Beautiful granite and tile kitchen... just gorgeous! And then they order out, cook boxed/premade foods, or eat out every night.

Now my mother and grandmother (from Italy) are awesome cooks. Growing up with them, I picked quite a few things up even though I never meant to. I consider myself a good cook in general, and for a typical guy a great cook. Needless to say, I do ALL the cooking in the house. My wife's travelling on business now... I'm planning a stuffed boned-duck (maybe with a reduced port wine or orange-pomegranite glaze) for the night she retuns valentines weekend.

Alot of our skills are learned and have nothing to do with genetics.

[seabeyond]

26. i didnt use my oven/stove for over 6 months when i moved into house when single.

i showed hubby refrig after shopping. refrig empty, freezer full, microwave dinners.

i married hubby cause he would cook for me. he actually tastes the spices to see if they belong in a recipe he creates. go figure. who would have thought, lol

i have since learned to cook, and now i am really good. i am so impressed with me. 17 yrs later.

but i am not going to embracesocietal conditionings raising my kids. how stupid is that. besides, i tell boys, learn to cook, and see the results, lol

[SoCalDem]

35. As soon as our sons could safely use the stove, I taught them to cook

they are all great cooks & have happy wives :)

they also did their own laundry & had to clean their own bathrooms as young kids (from about age 10)

My theory was:

boys eat..they should know how to cook
boys get clothes dirty..they should know how to get them clean
boys' hands fit the handle of an iron and a mop, just as well as Mom's

[seabeyond]

37. "did their own laundry & had to clean their own bathrooms" damn, i have to get on that

bthroom, anyway. lol.

[SoCalDem]

40. I gave up on their rooms.. I just shut the door

Surprisingly, they LIKED doing their own laundry.:)

Of course we often had "dryer" fights :)

[onpatrol98]

42. +1

I only have sons (4), and yes they cook, wash clothes, etc. But, I grew up with a friend whose mother didn't believe in it. She had two daughters and two sons. The only chores her sons had were mowing the lawn and taking out the garbage. Her daughters did everything else...including washing and ironing for her sons. It was kind of miserable to watch, frankly.

Meh...my father is a great cook and so is my husband! But, I know people who still try to rigidly define gender roles even today. I've got family members who won't let their sons (2 year old and younger) cuddle and rock teddy bears. They think its too "girly"! Now, that's interesting. Who knows the issues they'll have in marriage later.

[SoCalDem]

44. My 36 yr old son still has his "airplane quilt I made for him when he was 5"

His wife thinks it's cute:)

I can't believe it's still in one piece..

You can see bits of it in this old pic..he's the oldest one.

[seabeyond]

47. thing is, i grew up with two brothers, have two sons. i see, that their want and need no different

than my was/is. so when i am told i must treat them differently because of their gender, i call bullshit.

i have a brother that is typical male role. another brother that is all the societal conditions of female. i tend more toward male.

my 16 yr old son still likes me to sit on side of bed and just "pet" him. to connect. i had stopped cuddlin adn lovin on him when he hit 12/13 cause he was stepping into another phase. and i bought into it. one night huggin on youngest i am walking out of room and it hits me what i had done. just seemed wrong to not give the other son the same lovins. i went to teenage son, kissin on his face and he totally absorbed the love. walking away it hit me how unfair that was and he still needed the lovins.

[onpatrol98]

74. good point!

[undeterred]

19. The article doesn't say "all men"...

Maybe the same ones who don't take the time to read don't listen.

[Demeter]

4. I provide care for a couple celebrated their 70th Anniversary last weekend

If I'd married a better man, I'd be halfway there already....

[csziggy]

13. My parents will celebrate their 65th anniversary next Wednesday

And for about half that time, Dad has had a good excuse for not listening - he was going deaf. Not really - even when he could not understand anyone else, he could understand Mom. Now his hearing loss is getting so bad he can't hear understand her sometimes.

All us "girls" have had long term marriages, too. Sister #1 had been married 15 years when she passed away; #2 will celebrate her 40th this June; hubby and I will have our 34th in July; #4 had been married 28 years when her husband passed away and now she is on year three with the new one.

Since all the women in our family are intelligent and strong willed with our own goals, we all have been happy with men who were intelligent enough to support us in our lives and and to know when to yield for the important things.

[WinkyDink]

5. Aw, STHU.

:-)

[petronius]

6. It's not rocket surgery - life is just much less interesting when we listen to all that

common sense and sound advice. ;)

(OK, now I'll read the article...)

[Beacool]

8. If I had a dime for every girl and woman who complains about men not listening,

I would be very wealthy indeed. From teenage years on, us females have complained about guys hearing but not listening. For example, on Tuesday wife tells husband that on Saturday they are invited to the Jones' for dinner. Saturday early evening wife asks husband if he is not going to change. He asks, what for? She reminds him of the dinner invitation. He responds, what invitation? Irritated wife reminds him that she told him about it on Tuesday. Husband can't remember the conversation. Fight ensues.........

:eyes:

I think that men have selective hearing, they only hear what they want to hear.

:D

[Blue-Jay]

11. Did you just say something?

Sorry. I was watching 30 Rock.

[Beacool]

12. See what I mean?

:spank: (On behalf of the woman in your life).


:7

[dionysus]

49. Bea, were you saying something?

:hide:

[Beacool]

71. I get the feeling that you do listen to the lady in your life.

Banky!!!!

:woohoo:



:hug:

[Gaedel]

53. I selectively listen

Since most of it is recycled for the hundredth time, it is just like the safety lecture on an airliner.

After 30 years, most of what she is saying is "boilerplate", so I just zone out every sentence that doesn't have a question mark at the end. She talks because she can't stand for things to be silent (TV has to be on when she is in the house whether or not anyone is watching it).

Still, I love her and try to satisfy every thing she needs (except listening).

[Beacool]

72. Hmmm, I don't know...........

Maybe she's repeating it for the 100th time because she doesn't think it sank in the other 99 times?

:D

[PassingFair]

61. But I have the same situation with my teenagers all the time.

It's because they won't wait for a real opportunity
to give me the information.

Situation:

Driving car in traffic, in snow, teenager asks:


"Let's go to the mall"
"No"
"Why Not"
"Because I have to go home and make dinner"
"Well, I NEED mascara or I can't go to school
tomorrow, we have a pep rally".
"Tough luck for you, I don't have time
to stop at the mall and buy you a $25.00 tube
of mascara right now, but I'll consider it if you
will promise to clean the basement when we get home."
"You suck! (Lovingly and with understanding
that she is out of line)

The next day:

Frantic phone call from child @1:30, outside her
school.

"Where ARE you? You were supposed to pick
me up early, it's an early release day!"

"I didn't know it was an early release day!"

"Yes, remember, I told you YESTERDAY in the car!"

"No you didn't, you said there was a pep rally
and you asked me drive to the mall in a snow storm
and buy you an over-priced tube of mascara as if
it was an EMERGENCY."

"Well, you KNOW that every pep-rally day has an
early release!"

"How would I know that?"

"Because they ALWAYS DO!"

Yada, yada, yada..........



Kids, wives and husbands need communicate
properly, and REPEAT themselves if necessary,
to make sure the demand/question has been
PROCESSED by the demandee.

This means not dropping bombs in the middle
of 43 other questions that are being answered
in the negative to the point where the conversation
is tuned out.

Sometimes I look at my teenager after she has
blabbed on NON-STOP for 20 minutes and have to
ask her "Are you still TALKING?"

Gotta love them!

[seabeyond]

62. lmfao. that is so fuckin funny. and so true. i am going to use that

"Are you still TALKING?"

with my oldest SON. lol. love it

[PassingFair]

66. ...and I left out the laundry list of other favors, demands and pipe-dreams that were....

interspersed while I concentrated on not
SLAMMING INTO THE CARS in front of me.

LOL.

[seabeyond]

67. bah hahaha. my oldest, the talker, just took drivers ed. i tell him, need to focus on driving

and he shuts up. every class, at least half were blood and gore videos. i was laughing about the whole conversation adn didnt even think about the part of concentrating on poor driving conditions. more funny

[Beacool]

73. Well, teenagers are from another planet.

They don't become human again until they reach voting age. Even then, some stay alien for far longer.

:7

[elocs]

10. It's stuff like this that makes me happy to have chosen to remain single all my life,

and the older I get the more happy I am with that decision.

[raccoon]

50. Same here. I have run into lots of men like this,

"some men view relationships in terms of power and control. "

Living in a red red state, lots of men are like this.

I know, not all men are.

[PassingFair]

65. It IS the Xtian way.

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

[HEyHEY]

14. Well, MAYBE if women stopped talking SO much we'd assume it's important when they do!

:P

[Shrek]

28. +1 trillion

:fistbump:

[onpatrol98]

43. -1

LOL...Believe it or not, I've known a few men that you COULDN'T GET TO SHUT UP! Wow! I think there are fewer differences than we think.

[harun]

45. +1, we can only absorb so much....

[pipi_k]

51. I've actually gotten the opposite complaint...

Mr Pip has said that I don't talk enough.

Which is true. I'm not the chatting type. Mostly I live in my own head and forget that I'm supposed to actually talk in order for people to know what's going on in there.


What??? You mean men aren't mind readers????

:7

[seabeyond]

56. my brother is very expressive. his wife was not. he would get so frustrated she would not talk

about the issues. they divorced.

i dont think it is a gender thing.

my niece is the same way. learned from mom. there is a power and control in not opening up. not to mention protecting their vulnerability. all kids of things come into play.

[treestar]

55. +1 and I 'm a woman

I have several relatives and friends who talk constantly and so far, all who have this characteristic are female.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

15. "Men have fragile egos and you have to PROTECT them."

Maybe they don't listen because they are spoiled and expect the woman to wait on them like their momma waited on them. But they just might not be the prize that momma thinks they are!!

I heard that all my life when I was young and it made me gag. It still does. And on the other hand I was told constantly, 'You are a brilliant girl, we're gonna send you to college and grad school if you are smart enough, yada yada." The only thing I was praised for, as a girl, was being brilliant. And playing music. Not for anything else I did or my looks, by the family.

I did not have many dates in high school so i was convinced I would be an old maid. Got to college, hung out with the smart guys that are today called science nerds, and didn't have a problem finding dates!

[seabeyond]

18. the weaker sex. i am so damn tired of having to consider males fragile ego. i mean, wtf

i read about the fragile male ego, and my job protecting it all over the place. female ego must ALWAYS take the backseat to that fragile male ego. psychiatrists telling us that we must "protect" our mans fragile ego. i mean

a real wtf.

how did the male ego get so damn fragile

and

doesn't that make him the weaker sex?

i wouldn't be owning up to what society has been pushing forever, if i were a male.

[Shandris]

16. The one about problem solving gets me.

Since the article is about emotional venting, if something is CAUSING the need to emotionally vent, then there is a problem. Now, do you want to see the person you love in a state of emotional distress? I sure wouldn't. I'd try to find some way to properly solve the problem. I wouldn't DIRECTLY go to problem solving, but if I didn't end up there I'd feel like I was neglecting them, which isn't a real good indicator of being able to take care of someone emotionally.

Article long on conjecture, short on substance.

[distantearlywarning]

34. I didn't like the one about rationality, and I'm a woman.

First of all, that just reinforces the stereotype that "upset woman" = "irrational".

Second, if I *was* being irrational (which we all are sometimes, regardless of gender), I sincerely hope that someone I trusted would gently point that out to me instead of allowing me to remain in that condition. My husband is willing to do that for me (and vice-versa), and we have a terrific marriage. He is a better husband to me when he helps me find my way back to reality than if he were to just pet me and soothe me and allow me to continue being stupidly upset over nothing.

And also, I personally find it extremely frustrating to attempt to help people who are stubbornly irrational and experiencing problems in their life because of that stubborn irrationality. I don't think that feeling that way makes someone a bad person.

[seabeyond]

38. one of the things i love the most, having a mate. he grounds me when i need it. BUT

i do the same for him.

ground me as in not punishment, lol, but brings to stillness to see another perspective.

[Lucian]

17. Maybe it's because a lot of times they talk about stuff we don't care about.

I had a fiance and she talked about stuff I didn't care to hear, like gossip from her work, gossip about her friends, etc. She was intellectually uninteresting.

Of course, most things most people say to me is uninteresting, both men and women.

[Dorian Gray]

48. LOL

You sound like my husband. (Most people are uninteresting....)

[lunatica]

20. I divorced that problem right out of my life

I've been quite content ever since. Marriage isn't for everybody.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

21. Probably hearing loss from the persistance or prior nagging.

[seabeyond]

22. my husband and youngest son nag. my oldest and i dont. but we love them anyway. roles....

keep those roles alive

[Darth_Kitten]

36. Oh, right.....maybe they wouldn't have to be nagged if they didn't expect women to do everything.

:sarcasm:

[SmileyRose]

23. Mine doesn't need to listen

it would be nice to have someone living in my home that takes some sort of interest in who I am but honestly, if the man would rather sit in front of his sports than bother with me I'm not going to fight that. We are still married but I quit bothering him decades ago. 6 billion people in this world. A couple of them are bound to actually like me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. Exactly my situation.

:hug:

[RadiationTherapy]

25. Yawn. I am personally tired of validating and emotionally supporting

every little friggen thing. How about we all stop catering to fragile egos and we all stop validating and supporting the emotional burden of emotional people? It is lame to lose communication because of one's ego or emotional fragility.

Of course, further yawn, this isn't really about men and women, but egos and emotions.

[seabeyond]

27. there you go. i am so all over this. nt

[RadiationTherapy]

29. Sometimes when my ego is hurt, I lash out emotionally.

Just to complicate things...hahahahahhahahaha.

[seabeyond]

31. lmfao. nt

[Lucian]

70. +1

[rug]

30. What?

[JVS]

32. Listening sucks.

[RobinA]

33. Two Way Street

I'm unmarried (female) and have known men who listen and men who do not. Surprise! The best male listener I knew was a nice, average looking guy who had women crawling all over him. He listened and he heard. He was never dismissive. It is possible. On the other hand, some woman do yammer on. I know women I cannot listen to.

I do find that men more than women tend to not listen to stuff that doesn't affect them directly at the moment or that they think doesn't affect them. Women tend to listen to more stuff and store it away for future use. Those men then complain when they are out of the loop. I know everyone makes fun of the Venus and Mars books, but the first couple (before it turned into a franchise) cover communication issues in a very real, common sense way.

[seabeyond]

39. both my boys are capable and willing. but we do the same with them. they want to be heard

they can talk too. and identify what they are feeling.

it isnt about gender. it is about being allowed while young.

[Bunny]

41. I hated that idiotic Venus and Mars book.

It placed the burden of keeping communications open completely on the woman. It was a sexist crock of shit, and is one of the few books that I've literally thrown across the room. It was disgusting.

I'm a woman and I'm not always comfortable listening to people vent. My instinct is to go into problem solving mode, so that the issue can be fixed and the person complaining will be happy. And I do get irritated after several tries at solving the problem, or at least soothing the person, and they're STILL going on and on about the situation. That's probably because I'm not much of a talker when it comes to my own problems, I'd much prefer to work them out on my own. So maybe I'm not the best listener in the world. :shrug:

[treestar]

58. I can identify with that

Certain people I just don't tell my problems to, because they will just tell me what to do. So when someone vents, just listening is best, they don't want you to fix it possibly - they want to fix it themselves, but just need to talk it out.

I'm going to try asking them to brainstorm solutions rather than suggesting them (which is of course so tempting for some reason!)

[onpatrol98]

46. Same Sex Couples

Isn't some of this hogwash? What would this say about same sex couples and gender roles?

[treestar]

60. What was the Kate Millet essay that was so famous?

She got into this - the dynamic was the same in the couple, someone had the male role and the female role. I think the argument in the end was that it was not gender, just dynamics of the relationship. In straight ones, either party could have each role, but due to the patriarchy, there was a tendency for the male to have one role and the female the other.

[Odin2005]

52. This is a personality thing, not a gender thing.

When "Feeler" people get upset we want sympathy at that moment, rational problem solving can come later when we have calmed down.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. lol

[treestar]

57. There is going to be some lag there from the days

When women were supposed to be inferior. There's a slight assumption overall that what a woman has to say is somewhat of less value. We're getting over that, bit by bit, but some small hint of it is still there.

Palin, Bachman, Angle and O'Donnell don't help!

[seabeyond]

64. Palin, Bachman, Angle and O'Donnell don't help! ... so true. +1. nt

[Swede]

59. I'm sorry,I wasn't listening.

:shrug:

[old mark]

63. What?... Sorry, I was......nt

[begin_within]

69. Sorry can you start over? I wasn't listening.

[Arkana]

75. Uh huh. Yep. That's whatever you were talking about for you.

:boring:



























Sorry, you must have been boring.