Spain sets deadline for US to investigate TORTURE

[jtrockville]

Looks like Spain hasn't dropped the ball on their prosecution of the "Bush Six":
http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20110128-000277&

In a National Court writ, judge Eloy Velasco said the U.S. government must promptly state whether alleged human rights abuses in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp during the George W. Bush administration are being probed by U.S attorneys. In the absence of a positive response, he will decide whether Spanish courts must take on the lawsuit against former U.S. General Attorney Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo--author of the so-called "torture memos" on interrogation techniques--and David Addington, formerly a chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, as well as three others.

[democrank]

1. K & R

[spanone]

2. k&r....

[annabanana]

3. Viva España!

Thank God someone on this Planet is ready to consider doing what is necessary.

[vtdem_6550]

4. +1

[Celtic Raven]

6. Ashamed it isn't us

But second your Viva España!

:thumbsup:

[jtrockville]

7. Sadly, I think we'd just whitewash it if we investigated ourselves.

I'm almost relieved someone else is willing to do it.

Viva España indeed!

[Celtic Raven]

8. No doubt

which is another reason to be ashamed of how we operate in the world. The sycophants made sure that nothing could touch the * Admin, and it all carried over to this one.

[LiberalLoner]

37. Amen to that, k&r n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

5. And the Deadline Is March First !!!

Holy Crap !


This could come to a head fast !!!

[kudzu22]

14. I'm kinda curious what they'll do

when the deadline passes.

[jtrockville]

23. I guess they'll proceed with the lawsuit (which has been on hold)

The Center for Constitutional Rights has a summary of the proceedings thus far. It's moving far too slowly for my taste. CCR doesn't mention this latest development on their summary page:
http://www.ccrjustice.org/spain-us-torture-case

[Cid_B]

46. Can someone explain...

.. the Spanish courts claim of jurisdiction? IOW by what authority are they claiming to judge and/or investigate?

[jtrockville]

48. Universal Jurisdiction, See The Magistrate's post here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=297070&mesg_id=304072

[Cid_B]

52. Ahh.. as I thought...

The famous supreme court precedent of "pulling it out of one's ass"

[Senator]

9. K&+R

[Lugnut]

10. K&R n/t

[Solly Mack]

11. K&R

[azul]

12. The Torture Team took taxpayer dollars and broke the law,

tortured and and silenced and killed its victims. Past time they were taken court-side.

Unless the taxpayers get legal satisfaction, somewhere somehow, they own these crimes. The congresses and presidents are making us all complicit by directing the justice department to look away, to ignore lawbreaking at the highest and most secretive levels.

This was government action, paid for by the people, admittedly criminal. What gives?

[NuclearDem]

13. Bout damn time someone did!

[barbtries]

15. kicking

prosecute!

[leftstreet]

16. K&R

[upi402]

17. A nation of laws says whaaa???

I can't believe it. Is it real?

[Catherina]

18. 2011 just keeps getting better and better! Thanks Spain n/t

[SpiralHawk]

19. Thank heavens there are some honorable people in the world

[Enthusiast]

20. K&R

George W Bush, your greatest sin was making the ignorant American people believe that in some instances torture was acceptable. I will never forgive these bastards for doing this. God bless Spain in this undertaking.

[Ohio Joe]

21. Good

Those fucks need to face justice for their crimes.

[mmonk]

22. So the Spanish trials will start in March.

I will watch out for this with interest.

[jtrockville]

31. Not so fast...

See my post #23 - a timeline of the case. It's moving at a glacial pace (does that still mean "slowly" in this age of rapic climate change?).

It looked like it may stall completely after Garzon transferred to Den Haag, so it's good to see at least a murmer from Velasco. But I think it's unlikely the next phase will begin promptly on March 1st.

[madokie]

24. Please let this be so, please

My duties in 'Nam took me to the villages where the only security was me and my shotgun and our wits and our personalities. At any time we could have been captured because there were never any security detail with us, just me and my partner mixing with the Vietnamese people in their villages being ourselves eating meals with them and trying to show them that we as individuals were not all out for blood. That we felt their plight. If we as a country were openly torturing our captured then I'm sure my fate wouldn't have brought me home in anywhere near the shape I'm in now, which btw is a mess psychologically nevertheless.
Please Spain do this, make them, the bush cabal, pay like we've been doing to the Nazi's since ww2. For me for us and especially for our troops in harms way today and in the future and the past. Do it for them Please.
Torture is wrong where ever it takes place

+1

[azul]

27. Most well said with authority.

Thank you.

[hack89]

25. Spain has no jurisdiction

they will be ignored.

[liberation]

34. Technically, the US has no jurisdiction over the people we're holding in Guantanamo

or the ones we tortured over in Iraq.

Kind of ironic really...

[hack89]

35. Irony make the world go around. nt

[The Magistrate]

42. It Has Jurisdiction, Sir; The Lack is Enforcement Capability

Grave breaches of international humanitarian law, such as systematic torture of prisoners under direct orders of a government's leadership, is a crime all courts have jurisdiction over: such crimes are not against a particular state, but all states. Where it is established a government is not moving to act against such crimes committed by its officials, or its police or soldiery, this jurisdiction becomes a duty.

Certainly, a Spanish court could not enforce a judgement, or a sentence, against a citizen of the United States, unless that person owned property in Spain, or was present in Spain, or owned property or was present in a country willing to co-operate with a Spanish judgement. But that is not the same thing as a lack of jurisdiction; it only means the U.S. government will not carry out its obligations under international law, and that at present there is no coercive power able to force it to do otherwise. The fact is that the United States government is obligated to prosecute these crimes, which there is no reasonable doubt were committed.

[jtrockville]

49. I don't think enforcement is limited to being present in Spain

Here's an interesting note from the Center for Constitutional Rights:

http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/ccr-applauds-spanish-efforts-hold-u.s.-torture-conspirators-accountable
...

CCR President Michael Ratner, author of the book, The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld, said, “The importance of this investigation can not be understated. Contrary to statements by some, the Spanish investigations are not ‘symbolic.’ Just ask Augusto Pinochet, who was stranded under house arrest in England and who ultimately faced criminal charges in Chile because of the pressure of the Spanish courts. If and when arrest warrants are issued, 24 countries in Europe are obligated to enforce them. The world is getting smaller for the torture conspirators.” CCR Executive Director Vincent Warren said,

...

It seems anywhere in Europe would be off-limits.

[hack89]

51. They are powerless - that is all that matters.

they will roll over when push comes to shove.

[JBoy]

26. Standby for Spanish Rice to become Freedom Rice.

[Michigan-Arizona]

28. K&R n/t

[JDPriestly]

29. We are seeing in Egypt where excessive police brutality and torture

take a country. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Is that so hard to understand?

And for the atheists among us: Think Kant.

[OnyxCollie]

30. K&R. nt

[MasonJar]

32. Vive la Spain!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bobthedrummer]

33. K&R+ The Torture Archive (from The National Security Archive)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/torture_archive/index.htm

[JJW]

36. Inquisition

No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition.

[rhett o rick]

38. Our government will use our tax dollars to buy them off. nm

[RZM]

39. I doubt they'll pay anybody

Probably the opposite is more likely -- strong diplomatic and/or economic pressure behind the scenes. If some sort of real legal action against Bush administration figures does happen, it will go nowhere and be completely repudiated by almost every member of Congress and the President himself. From a political perspective, this issue can only benefit Republicans.

[chowhound]

40. does the us support spain in anyway?

any support that can be used as leverage?

[upi402]

41. Is Spain making a play for our tax money?

"$upport us or Wikileaks will look like a day at the beach?" -Spain

lol

[Mnemosyne]

43. Please, if there is any justice, let this become it. n/t

[gateley]

44. What gives them the right to do this? Boy, that sounds really bad, but what I'm

trying to ask is what legal authority do they have to make this stick?

I'm with them all the way! I would LOVE to see it -- just not sure how/why Spain is the country that's doing the right thing.

Thanks.

[jtrockville]

50. Two torture victims were Spanish citizens

This article gives some history about the case, and what happened back when Spain was deciding whether or not to open the case:

http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/ccr-seeks-intervene-spanish-court%E2%80%99s-investigations-bush-administration%E2%80%99s-tor
...

The expert opinion also examines the scope of universal jurisdiction, and determines that because of the nature of the crimes alleged and Spain’s obligations as a signatory to the Geneva Conventions and Convention Against Torture, in particular, it should retain jurisdiction over this case.

In his decision opening the investigation, Judge Garzón called the torture program “an authorized and systematic plan of torture and ill-treatment on persons deprived of their freedom without any charge and without the basic rights of any detainee, set out and required by applicable international conventions…” On January 27, 2010, Judge Garzón issued a decision in which he ruled that Spain had jurisdiction and the investigation into complaints filed could proceed. Judge Garzón based this finding in part on the Spanish citizenship and residency in Spain of two of the victims, and also cited the previous relationship between the victims and Spain due to the request for their extradition issued by Spain. Judge Garzón also found that opening an investigation was proper given the nature of the crimes – including torture – under universal jurisdiction principles, despite the amendment to the Spanish law in November 2009. His decision also takes note of the Letters Rogatory that were sent to the United States and United Kingdom on May 15, 2009, inquiring about possible investigations into these cases as well as into the possibility that the victims could initiate criminal proceedings themselves. Neither country responded.

...

[grahamhgreen]

45. Big K&R!

[Mosaic]

47. It is past time

Spain, Germany, the UK, anyone with their moral compass right must take action on this rogue regime, all the repulicrats. Us normal Americans, unless we whitewash for the criminals, are innocent.

[bobthedrummer]

53. ^

[bobthedrummer]

54. February First-kick