Student off hook for Facebook insult of teacher

[alp227]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

(01-28) 18:23 PST CITRUS HEIGHTS, SACRAMENTO COUNTY -- A Sacramento-area high school sophomore who called his biology teacher a "fat ass" on Facebook was suspended for a day for cyber-bullying - an action the school has now erased from his record after a First Amendment lecture from the American Civil Liberties Union.

The Constitution "bars schools from disciplining students for speech, unless the speech creates a material and substantial disruption of the school environment," ACLU attorney Linda Lye said in a letter last month to the principal of Mesa Verde High in Citrus Heights (Sacramento County).

California law also protects student expression, and the school was exposing itself to a potential lawsuit, Lye said. On Tuesday, the San Juan Unified School District told her the suspension had been expunged.

The boy's mother, Kristina Dunlap, was relieved.

Her 15-year-old son, Donny, an honor student and a football star, "was just venting like the rest of us used to do, sitting on the grass at lunchtime," she said. "Students will always talk about their teachers."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/28/BAT11HFSPT.DTL

---

Hmm. For every one of these stories there'll be 1000 more "students never disciplined for personal/online insult of other students...especially gays, minorities, nonconformists, other honor students, etc." Do you believe that the 1st Amendment means that schools can't discipline students for talking trash about teachers off-campus?

[FailureToCommunicate]

1. Eh, yes. That's exactly what that means...

See "Tinker vs Des Moines"

[alp227]

8. the article mentioned it at the end n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

2. Yes. If it was directed against another student, it might be bullying.

Not against a teacher. Bullying implies that the bully has power over the victim. The teacher has all the power in this situation.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Off campus it is a civil matter. Schools have no authority over it

It is well settled law.

[kiva]

3. Sound like mom is raising a real winner there...n/t

[bluestateguy]

4. It's a shitty thing to do, but I don't see how any rules were broken

Although this boy may not want to ask this teacher for a letter of recommendation for college.

[jonthebru]

5. I guess the teachers feelings were hurt.

But I bet he won't do it again.

I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. It is a pretty lame insult

I'm a teacher and I'm hoping my kids have been more creative when insulting me :rofl:

[msongs]

6. a suit for defamation of character and libel might be in order and perfectly legal tho nt

[bhikkhu]

7. ...and would be one of those idiotic lawsuits everybody likes to talk about

seriously, if a kid mouths off or misbehaves, how about a good talking-to? It sounds like the mom might need a word or two herself if she has a similar "venting" problem.

Individuals never develop self-discipline if it is never expected and never demonstrated.

[Cid_B]

20. Unless of course he is a "fatass"...

[markpkessinger]

23. The teacher could sue, but couldn't win the case

The legal tests for defamation and libel in the U.S. are pretty stringent. The teacher would have to prove (a) that the offending statement was false, (b) that it caused actual harm and (c) that it was made without adequate research as to the statement's veracity. (a) is impossible because calling someone a "fat ass" is clearly a subjective opinion that cannot be proven true or false. (b) Hurt feelings are not typically considered "harm" in a legal sense. (c) is moot because, again, it's a subjective opinion for which research cannot establish as being true or false.

The teacher could file the suit, and I can promise you here is how it would proceed: (1) teacher files suit; (2) defendant's attorney moves for dismissal based on (a) the fact that the statement was not a statement of fact and therefore cannot be considered to be true or false; and (b) lack of actual harm; and (3) the judge would promptly dismiss the case.

[HankyDubs]

9. nuke facebook!

:nuke:

[plumbob]

10. He's obviously not really an honors student. Insulting people who have

power over you is simply dumb.

And flash, sophomores are not football stars. Ever.

Well, time will cure.

Many years ago, a classmate of mine called a teacher of ours an ugly old bitch to her face in class. Her response? "What would make you think that your opinion matters to me?" And went right on teaching.

[oNobodyo]

12. Insulting people who have power over you is simply dumb.

so we shouldn't "insult" the congress, senate, potus, scotus or any significant financial institution or wealthy individual?...

that makes criticism of those that have power over us kind of difficult don't you think?

I wonder how it would've turned out if when it was "dumb" to "insult" king george because he had power over us if more had listened to that kind of advice.

[plumbob]

19. You know that I am speaking of the person in immediate attendance

with power over you and with something you want, ie, course credit.

WOULD you tell your immediate supervisor face to face in a public place that he's a douche bag, loud enough for everyone in the room to hear? Or post it on your FB site? And that would accomplish what?

Instead of juvenile insults (and a sophomore is a juvenile, no doubt), I'd suggest actually listing what someone is doing wrong, why it is, and what you want instead and why if you're working for political change.

Nice straw man, though, equating political expression to an immature student not wanting to do homework, and rather than address that, simply use the ad hominem insult. And then being able to claim a superior position after that.

My favorite is Dick Cheney, with his "go fuck yourself" comment to Patrick Leahey. Later, he said that it needed to be said and that he felt good about it.

Even the sophomore had the good sense to apologize later.

So if you wish to use Cheney as your model for change agency, please feel free. I won't.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. If you think about it...

Don't most people have fat asses except for a certain percentage that has no ass at all?

[BzaDem]

13. Yes, that is precisely what the 1st Amendment means. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. There's a difference between talking trash and posting it on the internet

Hopefully kid learned this lesson.

[markpkessinger]

21. The First Amendment applies to the Internet, Too

Although it might be a detestable thing to do, a person is entitled to talk trash in a public forum if s/he wishes to. If, however, s/he publishes something that could be considered libelous, the aggrieved party might have a legal cause of action provided that party could meet the legal test for libel. If the aggrieved party is an ordinary citizen, there is a three-pronged test for libel: (1) the aggrieved person must prove that the statement was false; (2) that person must prove that the statement caused harm; and (3) the person must prove that the statement was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. If the aggrieved party is a public official (and a public school teacher might qualify as such), there is an additional requirement that must be met, which is that the aggrieved person must also prove that the statement was made with the intent to do harm. Calling someone a "fat ass" cannot really be proved to be either true or false, since it is a subjective description. It would be pretty hard to say that a student's subjective epithet against a teacher in a semi-public internet forum caused that teacher any real harm. The issue of adequate research is moot because it is not an objective statement for which research can provide an answer. So we're 0 in 3. And if the court were to deem a public school teacher as a public official, how could it be proved that a student expressing a subjective opinion about a teacher was intended to cause harm?

So, if anybody has a lesson to learn here, it is the teacher and the school administrators, who apparently don't understand that (a) unflattering epithets from students towards teachers goes with the territory, and (b) the law does not protect people from hurt feelings.

prove damages (which can be a pretty tough thing to prove). It's pretty hard to conceive of any court deeming "fat ass" to be slander or libel, because it is clearly a subjective epithet

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. School was wrong...and wide open for a lawsuit

Short of threats of violence, off campus expression is outside the purview of the school, despite craven attempts to enact "long arm" rules. Many precedents.

[lame54]

18. absolutely...

schools out

[aikoaiko]

22. its too bad, because this case will probably be used to protect bullies of children

:shrug: