Rumors rife with reports of at least 60 rape cases during the days unrest

[oberliner]

From Ha'aretz:

As night falls after fifth day of riots, Egyptians seek to provide their own protection

Egyptians armed with sticks and razors have formed vigilante groups to defend their homes from looters as police disappeared from the streets on Saturday, after days of violent protests that have left dozens of Egyptians dead.

Rumors were rife with reports of escaped convicts running through the streets. State television reported at least 60 rape cases during the unrest. It also reported that the country's cancer hospital for children had been stormed.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/as-night-falls-after-fifth-day-of-riots-egyptians-seek-to-provide-their-own-protection-1.340045

[boston bean]

1. ah yes, the escaped convicts.......

[malaise]

9. Escaped?

Who let them out?

[boston bean]

13. i was being sarcastic. I don't believe it for one minute. especially after watching

the made up scare stories during katrina.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. They said the same thing about the Superdome in NOLA...

...interesting and IBTMTIP...

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. yup

[Ichingcarpenter]

4. Ha'aretz: has no axe to grind in Egypt

nor will they use it as as propaganda

for Israel......

[oberliner]

7. They are a pretty left-wing paper - normally very critical of Israel

Gideon Levy is a regular contributor for instance.

In any case, though, these rumors are apparently coming from Egyptian state-run television so there is every reason to be skeptical.

That being said, human rights groups have highlighted incidents of rape against women in Egypt by police in the recent past.

[zazen]

5. bedlam theme might help Mubarak, but rape is highly likely too

In crisis after crisis--hell, even in wild festival like celebrations--the small percentage of sonofabitch males who would only rape "if they could get away with it" finally think they can get away with it. I refuse to deny that chaos can often mean open season on women, just because reports of it right now might be serving Mubarak's interests.

We rightly worry that false accusations of widespread rape can be used by one group of primarily men to animalize/demonize another, given the ways white guys projected their sexual hangups onto black guys in this country to justify lynching them, but the above axiom still obtains.

[Chorophyll]

12. Yes.

Right now we don't know exactly what's going on. Individual rapists may find more opportunities when a state of unrest prevails, but rape is also widely used as a weapon of oppression in the world.

[DURHAM D]

6. The incubators - what about the incubators ?

What is taking so long?

:sarcasm:

[alittlelark]

8. They did report on looting in a childrens cancer hospital...

I guess they needed to tweak the story a bit.

[SoCalDem]

19. Here's hoping they stole all the cancer n.t.

[alittlelark]

51. LOL!

I needed that!

[SoCalDem]

17. you rascal.. I was going to post that.. now I will have to take "looters for $400, Alex"

[EFerrari]

10. Escaped convicts raping while running to attack a childrens' hospital with WMD?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oberliner]

14. More info: "My contact has witnessed at least 16 rapes in front of his apartment complex."

At 12:25 p.m. California time, the phones came online in Egypt. I got through to my contact.

"How are you?" I asked.

"Not so good," he said. "Everything here is in total chaos. Egypt isn't a country anymore, it's a war."

According to my source, the more than 1.4 million police officers in the country have abandoned their posts. Citizens are looting businesses and homes throughout El-Mansoura and other major cities across the country.

"In my complex, we have armed guards," he said. "They use kitchen knives, guns, even iron bars to protect us from the looters. The Egyptian people are no longer afraid. We are protecting ourselves."

My contact has witnessed at least 16 rapes in front of his apartment complex.

"The phones just came up before you called," he said. "Everything else is offline and the army is just sitting there and watching this. It is sad. I weep for my country."

http://sanclemente.patch.com/articles/wholesale-rape-and-looting-in-egypt-sc-journalist-reports

[EFerrari]

16. Not a word on twitter, which has distributed warnings and tips

for protesters for days.

And CITIZENS are not the main looters but plain clothes police thugs, as has been reported repeatedly.

16 rapes?

[oberliner]

20. From Twitter: "women are staying home because of rumors of rapists trolling the streets"

From this account:

http://twitter.com/randajarrar

[EFerrari]

22. So, that tweet reports rumors.

It's good to see women being pro-active about possible danger.

[oberliner]

24. The rumors are coming from Al-Arabiya I believe

Several tweets have suggested that news outlet has been reporting on the alleged rapes.

The Ha'aretz article appears to cite that source as well.

[EFerrari]

25. I haven't seen any tweets telling women or anyone to avoid the protests. n/t

[oberliner]

26. Would those tweets be in English?

It seems that the tweets in English are more geared to get the word out about what is happening to the West - I would think that messages directed at people in Egypt would be in Arabic, wouldn't you?

[EFerrari]

28. There hasn't been a language problem on twitter, no.

Have you been following?

[oberliner]

31. I've only been following what is posted in Engish (I don't speak Arabic)

I assume that there are numerous people in Egypt tweeting in Arabic and that there are at least a pretty sizable number of those involved in the protest who would get their information that way rather than in English. Do you not think so?

[EFerrari]

32. I don't have to surmise. There has been an active effort

to get news, warnings, tips out in both languages.

[oberliner]

34. "Women fear that they may be taken and raped. There is no one here to protect us."

It is VERY DANGEROUS here in Egypt. We are having to protect our homes ourselves from looters. Women fear that...

http://twitter.com/abu_joumana

[EFerrari]

35. Again, another tweet reporting a fear, not 16 rapes.

Seriously.

And they should be afraid. Mubarak's thugs have been loosed on the population.

[oberliner]

36. You think someone is going to tweet that they were raped?

I'm not sure what kind of proof you are looking for exactly.

[EFerrari]

38. This story is bullshit, I'm sorry.

There is a big, sturdy network getting news out of Egypt and no one is reporting this.

[oberliner]

39. I certainly hope you are right

Thanks for the link by the way to: http://twitter.com/safeworld4women

[cbdo2007]

15. There are reports that these were all the President dressed as a convict to...

make it seem like the protesters are bad.

[peacebird]

18. og course, and looting, and incubators - demonize protestors just like they demonized New Orleans

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

21. Tweeted by safeworld4women:

safeworld4women Safe World Campaign
by knkyvxn
R @sandmonkey: Nasr City safe and calm, Heliopolis on the way thx to ppl taking control of street protection #Jan25 #Egypt
26 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[bettyellen]

27. so Nasir city is safe and calm, but.....

[EFerrari]

30. City centers, where the army is, seem to be safe.

Out of those areas, there are thugs all over the place -- police thugs we know because they have been busted several times.

But there is no rape epidemic in Egypt, no.

[bettyellen]

40. epidemic-no. but a spike along with other forms of lawlesness probably.

i think it;s odd that tweets from the spot lighted city center are defining this for you. i know as well an anyone the propaganda is being catapulted, but really I don't thnk you and I will ever hear the true extent reported. no one is there to take complaints or be of much help in the bedlam, especially in a culture where reporting rape in the most normal of circumstances, could ruin your life.
the truth is, we don;t know 1/10 of what's going on, the most vulnerable in any society are not the ones tweeting.

[EFerrari]

49. Young people are tweeting and there is no filter.

If this was happening, they would be talking about it, yes.

[bettyellen]

59. i think the fact you are talking about a select group, young tweeters is quite a large filter

and there are very large areas beyond the central square, and huge porions of the population that cannot afford phones means that we are only hearing from a very small cross section of the population who have thrown themselves into the bright spotlight that is the epicenter of the protests.
what is occuring elsewhere? you and I both have no clue at all. you do not, and can not know.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[purrFect]

33. reminds me of the BS reporting during Katrina

[Liquorice]

37. Disaster rape is very real. It happened in Haiti as well. Here is a news

story about New Orleans.

http://www.wdsu.com/r/5627087/detail.html

[purrFect]

42. i don't mean it doesn't happen, just how the gov inflates the numbers to scare people

e.g. most protestors are peaceful, however most news is about rioters, looting, etc.

that is propaganda designed to scare and legitimize force.

or worse...

Egyptian Secret Police Thugs Are Rampaging Across Cairo In An Attempt To Discredit The Protesters

Reports have confirmed the looting is being done by the secret police in an attempt to discredit the protesters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=301121&mesg_id=301121

[grahamhgreen]

41. More PR to scare people.

[Old and In the Way]

43. Well, lets call off the revolution, then.

Because I'm sure no rapes occurred while the country was under totalitarian rule. Seriously, I'm sure lawlessness is happening in Egypt, but why would some reports of rape be surprising? And what does that mean in the larger picture of a country trying to rid itself of a non-democratic regime. I wasn't there, but I'll bet there were some rapes and other lawless behavior being committed during the American Revolution.

[Cerridwen]

44. So rape is down?

If links upthread are correct, "normal" is 55/day.

The past 5(?) days it has been 60 total?

I don't mean to make light of rape. Even one is horrific.

I'm making fun of the questionable "reporting."

[oberliner]

46. I am sure spousal rape is also continuing unabated unfortunately

This number is just in reference to alleged incidents occurring during the protests.

[Cerridwen]

47. You're "sure." Interesting way to go with this 'meme.' n/t

[oberliner]

50. I am not going anywhere with any "meme"

I am just saying that the average number of rapes per day was based on a UN report which made an estimate for the year and extrapolated a daily rate from those numbers.

For the most part, those incidents of rape occurred in situations where the rapist and the victim already knew each other.

[Cerridwen]

53. Average per day does not equal number per revolution.

Got it.

You try again....


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO SALE!!!!!

Flag on the play!

50 Yard Penalty for moving goal posts!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

50 Yard Penalty for moving goal posts....POORLY!

[oberliner]

56. I don't understand the z's and/or whatever joke you are making

Perhaps there were many fewer than average incidents over the past few days due to what is going on politically. That would be good news indeed.

[Cerridwen]

57. Good news, indeed.

I didn't expect you to understand.

[Hannah Bell]

52. what are you babbling about? is there no "spousal rape" elsewhere? here, for example?

what is the relevance to the current events unless one has a hard-on about arabs & muslims?

[oberliner]

55. Yes, of course - it's everywhere unfortunately

I was referencing this comment: "So rape is down? If links upthread are correct, "normal" is 55/day."

That 55/day number was in relation to the average rate of occurrence of rape in the country normally (which was most often spousal rape) - not connected to the 60 that were alleged in this report.

So the claim about rape being down is assuming that the 60 incidents alleged in the report were in lieu of the usual average of 55 per day as opposed to in addition.

I believe the link that had that info is among the deleted sub-threads so I can understand the confusion.

In any case, I certainly hope these reports are fabrications and no such incidents have taken place.

[browntyphoon]

45. Sadly women often fall victim in these times.

[Kievan Rus]

48. They said the same stuff happened at the Super Dome after Katrina in New Orleans

[oberliner]

60. More Stories Emerge of Rapes in Post-Katrina Chaos

Law-enforcement authorities dismissed early reports of widespread rapes in New Orleans during the lawless days following Hurricane Katrina. But a growing body of evidence suggests there were more storm-related sexual assaults than previously known.

"I admit that rapes are underreported," Benelli says. "I know more sexual assaults took place. I've expressed many times that we're willing to investigate any sexual assaults that happened in this city at any time. We can only deal with what we know."

The California Disaster Medical Assistance Team spent 24 hellish hours inside the Superdome. Team members said they delivered babies, treated gunshot and stab victims, and ultimately fled for their own safety. Commander Dave Lipin says they saw two women who said they'd been raped — different women than those the police attended to. He says his team only saw a fraction of the desperate people who sought assistance.

Lipin says when he arrived in Baton Rouge and turned on the TV, he was surprised by reports of rampant violence in New Orleans. "I think that that was probably over-reported," he says. "And so now I think it's swung the other direction and it's underreported. I don't know why. My sense now is there are victims out there whose stories haven't been heard."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5063796

[Catherina]

54. Sorry but this is pure bullshit. The ones doing the raping and looting are the police

MANY of them have been apprehended and turned over to the Army. They were roaming around in plainclothes and police and security division IDs were found on them.

I noted with interest a lot of strange new tweeters show up today, people no one saw a single time in the last few days, screaming that CHRISTIAN women were getting raped, that savage MEN were beating up on MUSLIM women for being out in the streets, and a ton of other nonsense.

It's true that escaped convicts are roaming the streets. They're with the special police units causing chaos.

Ben Ali did the same thing before fleeing Tunisia. Mubarak's doing it with a savage vengeance.

Thankfully the Tunisians warned the Egyptians what to expect and before the protests, the Egyptian people gathered pictures of all the policemen, Mukhabarat (Mubarak apparatchik secret police) they could so that people could identify their faces when they switched to plain clothes.


the country's cancer hospital for children was stormed by Mubarak's thug police. Doctors gave testimony about it.

The same with the museum. Those police thugs were caught and handed over to the army, police ids and all.

Someone really needs to help Haaretz out here. I'm plain ashamed for them.

[Mojeoux]

58. I suspected it was the bitter pissed off policemen who were acting as agent saboteurs.

Very interesting that the Egyptians were warned about this from the Tunisians.
I'm glad.

[jobycom]

61. Next comes the "thousand bodies in the Nile" rumor, then the crematoriums...

Funny how the same stories pop up with every conflict. Hurricanes, protests, riots, wars, raids on religious isolationsists in Waco... Always rapes, always someone torturing babies, always someone hiding thousands of bodies and cremating them day and night to hide the evidence. Of course, such stories justify force, so when the tanks start popping the skulls people can nod sadly and remark how it had to be done to protect the people.