Tiger Parents and Chopper Parents

[RandySF]

But it is the differences between the Tigers and the Choppers that help explain the furor Chua has caused, at least in the U.S. Tigers fixate on success, defined as achievement in precision-oriented fields like music and math; Choppers are obsessed with failure and preventing it at all costs. Tigers operate in a culture of discipline; Choppers, in a culture of fear. Tigers view children as tough, able to take the abuse; Choppers view them as precious, to be raised under glass. Their fury at a bad grade is more likely to land on the teacher than on the child.

And if Chua appears to sentence her children to slave labor, Western parents enshrine their children and crave their friendship. "The thing that impresses me most about America," observed Edward, Duke of Windsor, who knew something about indulgence, "is the way parents obey their children." There is something bracing about Chua's apparent indifference to her daughters' hostility, especially for parents who have learned that even if you let your teenagers spend 50 hours a week on Facebook, they'll still find reasons to hate you. (My favorite title of a parenting book: Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me and Cheryl to the Mall?)

The reactions to Chua's book, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, have ranged from praise for her honesty to scorn for her "extreme, rigid and authoritarian approach," as one critic put it. But in less hysterical precincts, she elicits a more conflicted response. First reaction: My God, she's crazy. Second reaction: Maybe she's right. I suspect one reason the book has touched such a nerve is a suspicion among the Choppers that an excessive fear of failure guarantees it — that if you don't let your kids get clobbered now and then by a tough teacher, they'll never have the resilience to thrive as adults in a competitive economy.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2043298,00.html

[RandomThoughts]

1. Sounds like.

Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Also sharpening the axe for 4 hours, if you have 6 hours to cut down a tree.


But there is something else, I am swinging away, and plenty sharp, because I am due beer and travel money, and the world should be more just and compassionate.

So those that create the hardship may have a positive effect in the long run, but that does not make there actions valued, since if there was not hardship, people would not need that training.

Or if you think your role is to make it hard on people, something even some religious groups think about my situation, then you are my enemy, although I will not personally make it hard on you, I do know you will get your due, as will I.

[seabeyond]

2. then there is the middle road. i will keep on truckin down that one. nt

[Pithlet]

4. Middle road, you say?

What's that? How does one know how to judge, if you go on muddying the waters like that? Geeze!

[RandySF]

6. I don't think it muddies the waters at all.

I would never want to act like the "Tiger Mom", but I've also seen a lot of parents get walked over by their kids. I even know a mom who makes her 4-year old ride in a stroller when he wants to walk. And as for "achievement vs. fear", all I can say is that when my kid is in karate, I don't flip out at him if he makes a mistake or doesn't hold his arms up when he kicks, but I don't have any problem when his sensei makes him do a couple push-ups for not following directions.

[Pithlet]

8. I think it's ridiculous that the OP articl wants to pigeonhole parents into either one or the other.

I think it's perfectly fine if a parent wants to take the middle ground. The whole reason that stupid book has become such a hot topic is because there's this media push to judge parents these days, because kids are just so out of control. And people eat it up with a spoon. The whole "Kid's these days" meme has been around as long as human beings have, but everyone thinks it's new. People want to be comforted that they're doing the right thing, and they can see themselves in these stories and be reassured. It's bullshit.

[Mojeoux]

12. Agree totally Pithlet. As fuc*ing IF.

Right, there's only two kinds of parents, and if your not an abusive Tiger, your a "Chopper?"

There's a million varying degrees of parenting.
But she's touring and selling books.
Every interview I caught, she immediately says her techniques didn't really work and she backs away from all the stupid cruel things she says she did to her kids.

[seabeyond]

15. i hated the restriction of stroller. never used it. i let the kid walk, i slowed me down, and

follwed along in his exploration. but, you seem to be right there with me in parenting. i too have said.... no whine do it. with many things. my son had a 5th pe teacher that actually worked kids out. i went to him after school, and told him, thank you so much for making these kids work. puching them. it was the first time expectation was high for these kids.

he was young, his first year. he told me, he had to back off because parents were complaining

son was never considered "athletic" but he loved this man and worked hard. the coach praised and pushed more. made son excel more. was so healthy and good for son.

i was so disappointed that parents had issue that coach actually made little johnnies run...

but, he was one of the first male teachers that was such an excellent example for my son and help to build his confidence in success.

[seabeyond]

14. one of the thing copter parents do, give adult world in freedom, dont give them responsibility

they cushion and protect their child from pain and responsibility in it so a child never learns to handle disappointments, failure. but they allow the kids the adult world before they can grasp the hugeness of it and ability to process in a healthy manner.

the tiger mom rejects the creativity and freedom of individuality to have only the responsibility and structure.

my kids say i am the hardest parent in some areas yet the mellowist in other areas.

age appropriate thru out the years learning thru their experiences and choices repercussions and rewards. yet the respect in who they are, and appreciation of who they create themselves.

i was at sons middle school the other day looking for two teachers. i ran into about 7 looking for these two teachers. EVERY teacher raved about one of the two boys or both.

i came home and told the boys, ... thru their behavior and choices, they make me look better than who i am. i dont get the credit for who they are, they do. they get the pat on the back for good, and they get the blame for bad

[Shandris]

3. I was raised by Tiger grandparents, according to the descriptions.

And I'm glad I was. It's what fuels my concern for others, the driving desire to bring others up to a level of comfort - at the very least - that I myself enjoy. Now, my level of comfort in the overall scheme of things is actually probably quite low...but I don't think anyone should be lower than what I am allowed to have.

[Odin2005]

5. That woman is a child abuser and deserves NO praise.

[BlueIris]

11. Ah, Odin.

Always the voice of sanity in any thread.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. It's a bullshit dichotomy, but it sells, because navel-gazing Merkins love to be told that

"You're DOING IT WRONG!"

Help! Please! Tell me how to parent my children! What, only $14.99 in paperback? Why, surely I'll shell it out, my good sir, a bargain for all the answers to my miserable, imperfect approach to life in one easy to read harangue.

:eyes:

[RandySF]

9. On the other hand

Is there a reason why colleges feel compelled to teach parents how to leave their kids alone for a day or two?

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I don't know. Is there?

Who are these mythical parents who are going to these mythical colleges to learn "how to leave their kids alone for a day or two"?

How old are the kids?

Are the parents leaving them COMPLETELY alone? Are they infants?

I'm sure this example of yours points to some serious deep deficiency in the American Parental Psyche, and it probably directly leads to several irritated diners who can't get through a restaurant meal without being interrupted by "brats", but more information would be helpful.

[Bonobo]

10. They prefer to be told they are "doing it right".

And in order to do that, the Westerners create the mythological Asian "Other" to hold up against them.

The mythical Asian "Other" is a kind of beehive society where people walk in lockstep with each other and all creativity is stifled and the kids lead a joyless life of slavery.

This allows America and other Western countries to believe the myth about themselves that they lead the world in freedom, creativity and self-expression.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. No, that's not the gist of these harangues, at all.

It's all about these bullshit myths of how American Parents are all giant fuck-ups, who coddle their kids, hover like helicopters, don't let the kids trick or treat or climb trees, all sorts of bullshit. Then add in the Glenn Beck/Bill O'Reilly whine about kids who play sports and "everyone gets a trophy" :eyes: and that's what's wrong with America.

I think the examples of this "tiger mom"'s parenting are egregious, bordering on abuse. I also think that the parenting advocated by fundamentalist "spare the rod" red state nutjobs is egregious, bordering on abuse, too.

[RandySF]

13. The breast feeding remark reminds me of when our son was born.

He arrived into the world at 10 lbs., 13 oz. and very hungry. At the same time, my wife just couldn't produce the breast milk necessary for a normal sized baby, let alone ours. But that didn't stop the doctors and most of the nurses from chastising us for asking for some formula because he was crying from hunger. "You've just got to keep trying", they said. Fortunately, one of the older nurses snuck a few bottles in when she got the chance. Still, my wife felt like total sh*t because she could not do it all by herself. Thanks a lot, Kaiser.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. The fact of the matter is, Breast Milk is better for babies.

Doesn't mean all moms can successfully breast feed, doesn't mean moms who can't should be made to feel bad. But it is better.