Obama - the new hero of the Muslim world!

[grahamhgreen]

Obama has about 2 seconds to come down strongly in defense of the Egyptian people, and call for the ouster of the dictator/president.

Doing so would make him, and America, a hero across the middle east. We could regain our moral authority to some degree.

Then we can GTFO of Iraqistan with nothing to fear.


If he backs the dictator, we can be assured that he will be making our country less safe, and be creating an opening for Islamic extremists to claim the moral high ground. Of course, more strife in the ME equals more profits for Halliburton, and the MIC.

Let's hope he has the wisdom to stop listening to the people who had no clue Egypt was about to turn, no clue that the Soviet union was about to fall, no clue "Osama bin Laden determined to strike within US".

[Uben]

No offense, but.......

......I trust his handling of the situation more than yours.

[grahamhgreen]

6. Let's hope he does not let this "Sputnik Moment" pass him by!

[Tx4obama]

7. Me too. n/t

[bluestate10]

66. Touche!! nt

[elocs]

1. Don't hold your breath, and don't be disappointed. n/t

[Taverner]

2. Yes, yes and yes.

[gateley]

3. He's already come out in strong defense of the Egyptian people, and warned Mubarak

to take "concrete steps". It's not just either/or -- he's in a tough spot and he did the right thing insisting on the rights of the people.

[Tx4obama]

10. Seems like a bunch of folks keep missing that fact. n/t

[sabrina 1]

11. Because he has not been listening the people. THEY DON'T

WANT MUBARAK. THEY FIRED HIM. Sorry to shout, but some people appear to be deaf, including the President.

'Insisting on the rights of the people'! Please don't say that to any of the people living in the countries governed by our Dictator Friends.

Platitudes, heard over and over again as we continue to finance Dictators which mean nothing.

Do you realize that a dictator is a certain kind of personality which is why he is a dictator and why we hire them? They don't have the words 'human rights' in their vocubularies.

Let's stop the pretense. Obama's speech is irrelevant to the huge historical shift that is taking place in the world, and he is of the old guard, the status quo that the world is revolting against from Latin America to Africa to the ME.

He COULD have been a history making president, instead he sounds like Reagan telling the dictators he was supporting in Central and S. America to be 'nice to your people, respect human rights'.

There is only thing anyone, including Obama, can say now and that is 'Mubarak, the people have judged you, you need to go. We will not be supporting you any longer and our apologies to the people whose lives you have destroyed'. Anything else is the same old same old from U.S. supporter of dictators everywhere.

[grahamhgreen]

20. Yup, a clear, unequivocal statement could reverse our perception in the ME.

[gateley]

21. I'm sure he's listening to the people, but what can he do? Call for his ousting

then if somehow Mubarak remains in power -- what does that do to our relationship with our strongest ally in the area?

Ideally it would come down as you (and I'm sure all of us) would like to see happen, but there are legitimate concerns if somehow Mubarak hangs on. If we didn't NEED an ally there, I'm guessing that's what he would do. I'm also guessing that's what he'd love to do on a personal level.

[grahamhgreen]

31. Even if Mubarek holds on (which he can't without our support, IMHO) Obama would own the Arab street.

Even some back channel pressure might achieve the same ends.

[gateley]

46. He'd own the Arab street, but what of our relationship w/Mubarak? As distasteful

and wrong as it is, he's a stabilizing presence (as I understand it, anyway) in the area regarding Israel.

I don't think Mabarak will be able to hold on, either, but I'm just saying I think they admin feels they have to hedge their bets until they know for sure. Plus, they might actually prefer him to an unknown (which is crazy in my book, but that appears how the game is played).

[grahamhgreen]

54. I would say he has destabilized Egypt, and that

is a threat to the entire region.

I support the peoples decision on getting rid of Mubarek, I'm sure that in a country of 80 million they can find a better president.

[gateley]

64. Who's destabilized Egypt -- Mubarak or Obama? nt

[grahamhgreen]

71. Mubarak. One can rationally assert he has

destabilized his own country through his use of torture, harsh police tactics, disparity of wealth, etc.

[gateley]

73. Agree -- if it weren't destabilized we wouldn't be seeing the demonstrations. I heard that

Dr. Nancy in MSNBC (who is in Saudi Arabia) was asking citizens there if they could see this happening in her country, and although there's oppression and no women's rights, etc., they all said no because essentially they felt secure. Therein lies the difference, I think.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. From the wikileaks released THIS WEEK

that pressure is already in place.

The speech was very diplomatic, I admit a foreign language to most... but there are three things to take into account.

1.- The president did NOT talk to Mubarak until he went on TV, in diplomatese that means you are on your own buddy.

2.- He came as close as you can, in diplomatese, to coming on the side of the people, which again is a strong signal as to you are on your own buddy

These two give space for all to go back to normal if Mubarrak manages to stay in power.

oh and finally...

3.-Go read the wiki leaks. Most are not that critical. These six are actionable right now. WAPO has them, Guardian has them, Observer has them. We are playing a role behind the curtain on this... as of at least 2008

[barbiegeek]

60. Please make a post on this- Thank U

[sabrina 1]

35. It will guarantee Mubarak's collapse if the U.S. withdraws

its support. So that need not be a concern. The U.S. is operating on the old Cold War policies rather than the 'change' we were promised. Obama is simply doing what Reagan did eg, when there signs of revolt against our dictator friends in Latin America, mouthing platitudes.

He has a choice, speak up now, there is enough evidence of brutal oppression from this regime that should make any true democratic leader ashamed to support them in any way, for him to be able to safely say 'We cannot support this leader. We accept the people's choice'.

We need an ally, but not a dictator. We will have to accept whatever the people of Egypt choose as their government and then negotiate with them in a civilized way. What we have been doing has failed. Why would we want to continue to do it?

Mubarak is finished. Even if the U.S. manages to prop him up for a while. And if they do, he will crack down hard on the protestors as China did after Tiananmen Square and the U.S. will turn a blind eye, for business reasons, as they did then.

I do not want to live in a country that in any way supports these cruel dictatorships and shame on us here that we have not done anything to stop our government from doing so. There are simply NO excuses for it in any decent society.

[gateley]

47. I understand your anger, frustration and betrayal -- I truly do and I feel much the

same. I'm just being (probably too) pragmatic. I think politics/foreign relations are messy and their are repercussions on any action taken -- pro or con.

[grahamhgreen]

56. This is Obama's moment to change our perception in the ME.

[gateley]

67. ...And here at home, but I just don't see it happening. I still think he'd like to

but it's those damn complicated politics and secrets that get in the way.

[sabrina 1]

4. He's not going to do that, he's already made his position clear as

mud. 'Both sides have to behave themselves'. See? when something cannot be denied anymore, like the fact that one of the U.S.'s dictator friends really is an evil monster and they can't hide it, we just wave our fingers at 'both sides'.

Right now Obama is irrelevant to this History Making moment. He has made himself irrelevant.

His spokesperson from the State Dept. is still tweeting platitudes like this:

# PJCrowley The people of #Egypt no longer accept the status quo. They are looking to their government for a meaningful process to foster real reform. about 2 hours ago via web Retweeted by JacobPark and 79 others

See, they will not acknowledge that the people are NOT looking 'to their Government' (our brutal friends) they FIRING THEM.

Washington doesn't care what the people want. All they are doing now is scrambling to try to influence the outcome so they can continue with business as usual. I hope the Egyptian people make sure 'businenss as usual' is over.

Obama is part of the Status Quo that Crowley is talking about. And everyone knows it.

[grahamhgreen]

8. If only he could see what asking Mubarek to step down could do. I hope it's on the table, anyway.

Lovely platitude - WFT (the new WTF)

[sabrina 1]

19. Yes, I left out the quote from PJ Crowley the State Dept. Rep

whose been tweeting regularly and just not hearing the Egyptian people's demands. I edited the post above to include it. But here it is again, he keeps repeating it, like a robot:

# PJCrowley The people of #Egypt no longer accept the status quo. They are looking to their government for a meaningful process to foster real reform. about 2 hours ago via web Retweeted by JacobPark and 79 others

Posted a few hours ago on Twitter by him. Notice he is insisting that the people are still 'looking to their government'. He refuses, and refused in interviews also, to acknowledge that they people have FIRED the government. This is our government refusing to accept the fact that their dictator friends are being fired, everywhere.

It's just thoroughly frustrating.

[barbiegeek]

13. We need to get USA Tourist OUT first: All countries are evacuating

USA: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/01/28/marines-ready-for-egypt-rescue-mission/

Malaysia: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/1/29/nation/7898177&sec=nation

Israel & Netherlands already left embassy-google it

You'd be complaining if the 10s of thousand USA tourists, students, anthrologist, archeologist & press were killed. Can't you wait until we get our plan organized to remove our people first.

Jeez...

[grahamhgreen]

16. Yes,

I meant "2 seconds" in historical terms.

He's got a few days or weeks.

[Doctor_J]

41. few days

this will be over in a week.

[barbiegeek]

34. Yep, i unrec. for reasons listed above

[sabrina 1]

36. We could make them safe by simply withdrawing support for the dictator.

The country would celebrate and welcome those who are there to celebrate along with them. What they have to fear now are the government thugs not the people.

[grahamhgreen]

40. Very true. Americans would be sanctified!

[tabatha]

5. Egypt is a sovereign country.

If you did not like Bush's call for regime change in other countries then you should not support Obama doing the same.

See:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=304089&mesg_id=304115

[grahamhgreen]

12. But Mubarek is not supposed to be the sovereign, the people are. I just hope that

they seriously consider asking the guy to step down - it would be fantastic for our perception in the ME, and Mubarek is not the kind of person we should be dancing with if we really want to solve Islamic terrorism.

[stevenleser]

17. That kind of rationalizing would support any US intervention ANYWHERE. n/t

[tabatha]

27. The kind of intervention that countries do with

effect and legality is sanctions. It worked with South Africa. Obama is threatening to do the same with Egypt.

However, the people of Egypt need to select their own leader.

[WinkyDink]

15. Except for that leeeetle difference with bombs and such-like.

[tabatha]

29. I disagree with bombs being used.

I think sanctions and aid cutoff if there is no action.

But Mubarak should be kicked out by Egyptians.

[grahamhgreen]

42. Absolutely. I just think it would be great for our country if obama supports him leaving.

We can give him a McMansion in Florida, instead of 2 billion next year.

[barbiegeek]

9. SOTU- he said he support all people seeking democracy like Tunisia

You are about 5 days behind.

[grahamhgreen]

14. No, he is still equivocating. We need a clear statement, simply asking Mubarek to retire.

The guy is 82, after all.

[stevenleser]

18. No, we don't. What you hear most from people around the world is for the US to stop butting in to

other countries business.

[grahamhgreen]

25. Which is what we are doing when we support the torturing dictator to the rune of 2 billion

a year over the will of the people.

This is really a no-brainer, IMHO.

Mubarek will not be around much longer anyway.

[stevenleser]

No, sorry, it is not remotely the same thing. n/t

[defendandprotect]

28. The way to "butt out" is for Obama to STOP backing Mubarak ... a dictator --!!

[tabatha]

32. Obama has said that he will cut off aid and impose sanctions.

[defendandprotect]

43. Obama knows the Egyptian people are calling for Mubarak to step down...either

he acknowledges that directly or he runs from it --

PLUS, as it always clear now, presidents often say one thing publickly and

then we find that they and our CIA are doing something entirely different!

[barbiegeek]

49. Obama cut Aid in 1/2 in 2009

[defendandprotect]

52. And the people are still asking for Mubarak to step down ...

[barbiegeek]

53. Yeah, they have less $$ from Us

[defendandprotect]

57. I think you mean, Mubarak has "less money" to steal --

[sufrommich]

22. He really can't publicly ask Mubarak to retire,that would

look like meddling big time. He also can't appear to other countries as being willing to call for the ouster of a world leader.

[defendandprotect]

33. Any democracy can ask a DICTATOR to step down... especially when US supported him!!

[grahamhgreen]

45. Of course he can, we do that all the time.

[Robb]

23. You suggest this, given our country's track record?

Forgive me, but the last time we came out against a dictator in the Middle East things went pear-shaped in like three days.

[stevenleser]

30. Exactly Robb. We should do absolutely, positively nothing other than urge no violence and perhaps

elections.

[defendandprotect]

37. Saddam was also our "dictator" as is Mubarak ... let's return Egypt to the Egyptian people ...

ANY and ALL nations in the ME are under threat from US --

How about Iran? Biden has been calling for Israel to attack Iran for a year now!!

Biden says, "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" -- !!!

:eyes:

[grahamhgreen]

38. It took many years for things to go

pear shaped in Iraq, with a lot of convoluted permutations - he was our boy in Iraq for quite some time.

I just hope they're looking at this, because it is an opportunity to suddenly and radically change our perception over there.

[JI7]

24. Everyone doesn't have to be about us, and in cases of US intervention in the Middle East

it's even worse.

[defendandprotect]

39. All that Middle East ... and all that OIL ... !!!

[defendandprotect]

26. With you -- except that this is not about Obama "wisdom" ... it's elite ownership vs the people ....

and Obama is regularly on the wrong side of that!!

[Doctor_J]

44. this president is not really good at "coming down strong"

on anything. He makes Bill Clinton look like Truman in comparison. But I guess e can hope.

[browntyphoon]

50. Very true. Talks like a lion and acts like a lamb

[Hannah Bell]

48. imo, the us gov't is not committed to mubarak at all & is currently negotiating terms w/ him.

mubarak doesn't control the egyptian military; the us does. they basically fund it & train it.

which is why, i'm guessing, the military has had such a light hand in this process.

[RandySF]

51. We had eight years of grandstanding.

When Bush was president, the M$M would wet their pants with glee every time he got up at the podium and make a "strong" statement, not that it mattered whether it either had a disastrous effect or no effect at all. Now they are critical of Obama because he doesn't give them as much material to work with. I much prefer competent to a lot of words.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GSLevel9]

59. US has been tacitly supporting the resistance there since 2005

so it'd be good for him to come out.

(source, Telegraph UK)

[DeSwiss]

61. Sorry.

But he can't "come down strongly" in defense of the Egyptian people and call for the ouster of the dictator/president. He is only the President of the U.S. It's not like he rules the country or anything. That's the MIC's job.

- Still, it was a nice thought......

[RandySF]

62. Do we even know what comes after Mubarek? n/t

[bluestate10]

69. No. And that is the problem.

If the Muslim Brotherhood takes over, the USA and the world has huge problems. President Obama's detractors don't have a clue about what is happening behinds the scenes. The USA can't just allow things to happen in Egypt, doing that is dangerous for the US and the world. I would guess that diplomats are working around the clock to get someone that Egyptian people can trust, but who does not have ties to Mubarak or Al Qeada. Even though US diplomats in Egypt have been reduced in scope, foreign embassies that can operate freely are most surely active on both the US and their behalf's.

[mzmolly]

63. Why should he try and be a hero to a particular religious group?

:crazy:

[bluestate10]

70. Because that is what President Obama detractors say President Obama should do.

And if things get freaked up because President Obama took their directives, they will get it straightened out with a few strong choruses of kumbaya.

[grahamhgreen]

72. The people of Egypt are not a religious group. This is a moment when we could win hearts and minds

in the middle east, or we can be known as the country that sold the teargas to the dictatorship.

I should have said - "the hero of the people of the middle east".

[pnorman]

65. Here's a relevant DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x602387

[rucky]

68. Obama's playing it like a statesman

I don't expect him to take sides until this is sorted out.