Senator favours cutting US aid to Israel

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Sunday, January 30, 2011
Senator favours cutting US aid to Israel

WASHINGTON: A new Republican senator favours cutting US aid to Israel as part of a deficit-driven effort to slash government spending by $500 billion this year, drawing criticism from Democrats and Republicans who argue the US must be unwavering in its support for the long-time Mideast ally.

Sen Rand Paul, who is backed by the conservative tea party movement, unveiled his budget proposal this week that would make significant cuts in education, housing and energy while reducing money for wars in Afghanistan and Iraq by $16 billion. Paul’s plan also would cut some $20 billion in overseas aid, and he said he wants to eliminate the $3 billion the United States provides to Israel annually in foreign military assistance.

“The overwhelming majority of Americans agree with Senator Paul our current fiscal crisis makes it impossible to continue the spending policies of the past,” Paul spokesman Gary Howard said in a statement responding to the criticism. “We simply cannot afford to give money away, even to our allies, with so much debt mounting on a daily basis.”

The latest economic forecast puts the deficit at a record $1.5 trillion. Paul explained his position in an interview with CNN on Wednesday, saying he respects Israel as a democratic nation but feared funding an arms race in the Mideast. His proposal drew a swift response from Republicans and Democrats. “We share Senator Paul’s commitment to restraining the growth of federal spending, but we reject his misguided proposal to end US assistance to our ally Israel,” said Matthew Brooks, executive director for the Republican Jewish Coalition, in a statement Thursday.


Read more: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011%5C01%5C30%5Cstory_30-1-2011_pg4_7

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. I can't believe I agree with this douchebag on something. I need a shower. nt

[peacebird]

6. I know... scary, huh?

[stranger81]

24. Agreed.

But even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

31. my first thought too

[laconicsax]

35. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean you're on the same side. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

38. Well no, he's still a fraud and a prostitute but you know....... nt

[vssmith]

152. Just like the Oil companies--they will do alright without subsidies

[aikoaiko]

159. stopped clock and all that.

[Lost-in-FL]

2. !

:popcorn:

[whosinpower]

3. And so ends his career

Doesn't he know that the number 1 export of the US is arms?

[social_critic]

80. Or maybe you mean his career will end because....

Something else is in play, a theme so many fear, we can't discuss it?

[HankyDubs]

124. oh that's right the JOOOOOOOS

be afraid of the joooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos.

[Ter]

135. He's our next president, in 2016

n/t

[loudsue]

4. I agree 100% !! I'd really like to know what our annual taxpayer contribution is to

foreign governments. Not even for the cost of keeping military bases and $400 billion embassies, but just the amount we taxpayers donate to foreign governments to try to make them like us.

My guess is SOME of that trillion or so dollars could surely save our teachers, police and firefighters jobs.

[on point]

83. Foreign Aid is about 10 Billion annual, and is the LOWEST percent of gdp of most OECD

Some perspective on our foreign aid

Most goes to Israel, about 3-4 billion.
1.5 billion goes to Egypt.
The other 5 billion goes to the rest of the world.

We give LESS as our percent of gdp than most other OECD countries. For instance Sweden and Canada give far more. The total amount is larger yes, but so is our economy. We are not the largest giver. The EU for instance gives more.

Personally, I wouldn't cut our foreign aid as a total, but I would cut all military expenditures in this. I would cut Israel for sure, and I would cut authoritarian regimes if it goes to the regime as opposed to the people directly as in food or education aid.

[ProSense]

5. Rand Paul is pushing the House teabaggers' position

They're trying to eliminate foreign aid and are using Irael as the talking point for their actions.

[pampango]

17. I suspect Paul will find a lot of support here for cutting foreign aid. n/t

[ProSense]

30. Well, cutting

foreign aid is misguided.

[social_critic]

82. I believe he means to cut military aid to a rich nation

Given Israel's GDP, why not cut military aid? It's sort of wasteful. That money can be re-routed to Haiti.

[cali]

140. try reading. he wants to cut every penny of foreign aid. duh.

[LeftishBrit]

167. 'That money can be re-routed to Haiti'? Not if Rand Paul has anything to do with it!

Rand Paul opposes ALL foreign aid.

And his father Ron was the *only* member of Congress to oppose a congressional bill advocating long-term American government support for the rebuilding of Haiti, saying that help should come only from voluntary donations:

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/ron-paul-dr-no-says-no-to-hait.html

Admittedly, father and son are not the same person; but they seem to agree on most things - except when Rand is even further right.

[Mosby]

7. he wants to eliminate aid to the Palestinians also

You guys do know that right?

It's about a billion per year that's going to the PA and the Palestinian refugee org (UNRWA).

[Dokkie]

10. i dont know where you get your numbers

but i seriously doubt the US is giving the PA anything closed to $1b. The country is so small that if we were giving them $1b a year, it would look something like Beverly hill and this is in spite of the bombing by Israel. But lets see how the other 99 senators hang him out on this one, there are a few rules in senator you cannot break and this is one of them.

[Mosby]

13. Sorry I should have posted links

the numbers come from the US state dept.:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/11/150812.htm

But Obama raised the 150 bil/yr to 400 bil:

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/06/201069153936486722.html

that brings the total to 989.9 billion dollars.

[boppers]

90. Your numbers are off by a thousand-fold.

I couldn't get the second link to come up, but the first link shows us paying only a thousandth of the amount you're indicating.

I'm guessing it's a typo, but you made it three times, soooo....

:shrug:

[trud]

148. our friend Mosby

doesn't know the difference between a million and a billion. Or he doesn't care when trying to make a point.

[Mosby]

166. I was posting in a hurry

From the US state dept:

With the full UNRWA contribution = $739.9M

then add the increase of direct aid (250M) = 989.9M

I'm sure your much better than me with math, but 989.9 million is just a little under one billion right?

[joshcryer]

70. Palestine gets the highest per-capita aid of any "country" on the entire planet.

Please don't be silly, it's not just the US, but the Arab League gives them money in order to keep them imprisoned.

[trud]

150. "the Arab League gives them money in order to keep them imprisoned."

Please. Rolls eyes.

[trud]

12. I looked this up

I don't know how reliable the sources are:

U.S. aid to Israel:
$1-2 billion a year from 1949 to 1996
$2-4 billion a year from 1997 to now.

U.S. aid to the Palestinians:
$75 million a year up to 2004 (Yasser Arafat dies in 2004)
$400 million a year 2004 to now

That doesn't include, of course, the hundreds of billions we've spend on Middfe East wars at the instigation of the friends of Israel in the U.S. government.

[SOS]

155. In perspective

$4 billion a year to Israel = one third of the annual New York City school budget.

If Rand Paul thinks cutting foreign aid to Israel will magically make a whit of difference to our
finances, he's an idiot.

[oberliner]

8. The Daily Times of Pakistan? Was that the only source who didn't mention Rand Paul's name

in the headline? Or anything about him being a "tea party" far right-wing Republican?

If not, why choose that particular source for this particular story?

[Violet_Crumble]

20. post hiccup n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

21. What does it matter?

Or don't you like wasting yr time reading the actual article where it clearly gives much more information than the headline does?

[Judi Lynn]

111. You really are dragging out a stupid charge against me. I posted an AP article from the wrong paper!

Read the article and shut the #### up.

Your problem about how the headline should have been written is simply stupid.

It's not up to me to keep you from having to open the thread to learn what the article concerns.

You've got far too much time on your hands. Should save your hostility for the valid arguments.

[krabigirl]

9. I agree with him. We need to focus on aid here at home, not that he would agree with that.

[ProSense]

14. From the OP: “The overwhelming majority of Americans agree with Senator Paul

our current fiscal crisis makes it impossible to continue the spending policies of the past”

It's not a choice for Paul. He wants to cut spending on social programs here in the U.S. and the foreign aid is simply part of his isolationist rhetoric.

There is no need to give him credibility on anything.

[kurtzapril4]

36. + 1 brazillion

Keep that money here at home.

[decidedlyso]

11. More chance of the Pope registering here for a password.

[AnnieBW]

15. Oooh, Randy stepped in it big-time!

Hope he's wearing his asbestos undies when AIPAC finds out about this!

:nopity:

[oberliner]

42. Pro-Israel lobby groups supported his opponent, Democrat Jack Conway

As did most of DU.

Sadly, to no avail.

[social_critic]

86. Sadly because he wants to cut military aid to overseas nations?

A senator who wants to end our military involvement in iraq and afghanistan and cut military aid is fine with me. Unlike many democrats, I'm truly anti-war. This means I oppose war, period. Disclaimer: The above is written by a pro-Palestinian peacenik.

[AnnieBW]

93. Oh, I'm not saying that I don't agree with him

I mean, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I'm just saying that AIPAC is a huge, influential lobbying organization. Congressmen tend to ask "how high" when AIPAC says "jump". Add to that Fundie "we support Israel because we want them to convert to Christianity so the End Times will come" constituency, he's really stepped into a big, stinking pile.

[oberliner]

99. You are off base in your assessment

AIPAC is well aware that Rand Paul holds this position. This is not news to anyone who followed his election in Kentucky. Least of all AIPAC's membership.

There are much much larger and more influential lobbying organizations that Rand Paul's proposed budgetary cuts will enrage.

He is proposing doing away with the Department of Energy, the Department of Education, Housing and Urban Development, and on and on and on.

[Ter]

137. He's right a lot more than once a day

He's also against the Patriot Act and the wars.

[oberliner]

97. Sadly because he is a RW lunatic who wants to do away with most social programs

This is Rand Paul we are talking about.

[Raksha]

153. He's probably also anti-Zionist if not anti-Semitic, period.

I'm old enough to remember the days before the Occupation, when ending foreign aid to Israel was the default position of most right-wingers. That was at a time when most liberals were unequivocally pro-Zionist. This wasn't out of any great love for the Palestinians, but more out of hostility towards Zionism and Judaism. Don't forget that Rand Paul is also apparently a Christian fundamentalist, at least going by his attitude towards abortion. CUFI (Christians United For Israel) is a very recent, very superficial development. But I doubt that Rand Paul even gives lip service to their agenda.

[LeftishBrit]

163. Sadly because he wants to cut any sort of aid to his own nation or any others!

And because he is the darling of the teabaggers; opposes all public services; supported by far-righties, racists, xenophobes, and all who are quite happy with crushing the poor.

He is not aiming to cut aid to Israel because he thinks that e.g. Haiti needs it more, or because he wants to increase public services and prevent poverty in America. He wants to slash ALL spending. And I doubt very much that he's pro-Palestinian, given things he's said about Muslims. He, or at least his hardcore supporters, probably hate Israel and Palestine equally, because one is full of Jews and the other of Muslims (yes, we can criticize both Israel and Arab countries without being either antisemitic or Islamophobic; I am talking specifically about the attitudes of Rand Paul's base). But he seems, by his actions, to hate poor Americans even more than he hates foreigners.

He is even worse than his father, and that's saying something! Some nuts don't fall far from the old nut trees.

[XemaSab]

16. If it was money for food, medicines, and housing it would be one thing

but giving money for guns and tanks and gold-plated toilets in the presidential palace... why should our dollars pay for that?

[ProSense]

18. It is

From the OP: " part of a deficit-driven effort to slash government spending by $500 billion this year"

That's social spending in the U.S.

[Violet_Crumble]

25. No, it's not. US aid to Israel is not for food, medicine and housing...

And why would it be? Israel is a wealthy and highly developed country. It's for bombs and weapons that result in the deaths of innocent civilians...

[barbiegeek]

47. Israel has Universal Health Care

[Violet_Crumble]

89. So does Australia, and we don't get hand-outs from the US n/t

[ProSense]

50. Yes, it is.

His budget cuts are not about Israel, they're about lunacy.

[Violet_Crumble]

87. I'm talking about aid to Israel...

That appeared to be what the person you responded to was referring to. Not sure what yr talking about. Do you support the US giving aid to Israel? Just curious...

[ProSense]

92. Sorry,

I'm not going to pick and chose what I like, which is nothing, from a lunatics proposal.

It's not like Paul came out with a plan to cut aid to Israel only. His plan eliminates foreign aid, but more importantly, dismantles U.S. social programs.

[Violet_Crumble]

95. Picking and choosing? Read the thread title. It's talking about Israel...

If you want to talk about something else, go for it, but it's probably just a bit offputting to everyone else to pretend the person you replied to who was talking about Israel was talking about something else...

btw, you didn't answer the question. Do you support the US giving aid to Israel?

[ProSense]

98. Read past the thread title to

the first line of the article:

"A new Republican senator favours cutting US aid to Israel as part of a deficit-driven effort to slash government spending by $500 billion this year"

[Violet_Crumble]

101. Can you answer the question I asked you?

Maybe it'll be third time lucky. Do you support the US giving aid to Israel.

btw, I read the entire article, even the headline, which you appear to have ignored...

[ProSense]

108. I already

answered

I do not support Paul's proposal. Aid to Israel is irrelevant in the context of his budget, which is to cut all foreign aid.

[Violet_Crumble]

110. No, you didn't. I asked you if you supported US aid to Israel...

You haven't answered that question at all. If Israel gets foreign aid from the US, then it's pretty damn relevent, especially for those of us who bother to read the headlines of articles...

[ProSense]

112. What is it about

this response that you're not getting?

"If Israel gets foreign aid from the US, then it's pretty damn relevent"

So is all the other foreign aid that will be cut under Paul's proposal. Do you support eliminating all foreign aid?

[Violet_Crumble]

114. Uh, you didn't answer the question I asked you about whether you support US aid to Israel...

Maybe it'd help if you answered that question instead of linking to a post of yrs that doesn't answer it at all?

I'll repeat it again. You claimed Israel is irrelevent to discussion in this thread because it's about foreign aid. I pointed out that apart from the big-arse headline mentioning Israel, Israel does get foreign aid from the US, so of course it's relevent. Is there anything not clear in what I've just explained? I'm happy to repeat it...

[ProSense]

116. "Maybe it'd help if you answered that question..."

Maybe you should realize that you're not going to get a different answer you'd be happier.

Rand Paul's proposal is not about Israel. Period.

[Violet_Crumble]

117. I'll help you answer it...it's either 'yes' or 'no'...

C'mon, give it a whirl...

Of course Rand Paul's proposal was about Israel. Unless yr of the belief that Israel doesn't recieve US aid, in which case you'd be seriously wrong...

[ProSense]

118. .

Strive for happiness.

[Violet_Crumble]

120. Okay, obviously you don't want to say whether or not you support US aid to Israel...

You could have just said so, rather than claiming you did answer my question when you didn't. I'm not sure why any American with an interest in politics would be reticent to answer a question about whether or not they supported US aid to Israel, but from what I've seen online, politics in the US gets bizarre and beyond strange when it comes to anything to do with Israel, so maybe I should be more understanding of yr reluctance to answer a question about US aid to Israel...

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

128. And you think this

crazy budget is going to change that?

[stockholmer]

131. you hve to end empiric spending, and repudiate illegimate sovereign debt owed to Fed and its ilk

81% of your budget is military and non-discretionary spending, which means you can cut ALL other spending, the programmes that are up for debate that you will see argued over in Congress, and still only remove $600 billion from your budget deficit, which now stands at a projected $1.5 to 1.6 trillion for 2011. This means that you still have trillion a year in hard deficit.

Lets face it, even 33% across the board cuts in discretionary spending will devastate hundreds of millions of people. There would be a huge uproar as each special interest group gets its ox gored. Even if it happened, it only saves 200 billion a year, thus the debt explodes further. If the Fed raises your rate to what most of the west and China is , then the debt service explodes to well over $1 to 1.5 trillion year.

What the USA does have, the 2 things that matter most to it, and ultimately to the rest of the world, are the dollar as the world's reserve currency, and your military empire. Both are incredibly linked, as the actions of the military are what keeps the dollar ss the international currency. 87% of all international financial transactions are still denominated in US dollars. Especially oil and commodities. If you are another nation, you have to buy dollars to buy commodities and oil.

What this does, is to allow the US Federal Reserve to simply keep increasing the debt and money supply, and thus debase your currency more and more, and also allows the US to keep spending insane mounts of money on its budgets, especially the military (in reality you spend well over $1 trillion a year on all military programmes, when off-budget and black ops are added in), your transfer payments (ie Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc) plus you debt service (which is now at $600 billion year, and that is at near zero Fed discount rates).

In conclusion, the EU and all the rest of the world are being crushed by the bond markets, as we have to pay true market rates to finance our debts. The USA, due to the dollar, is somewhat exempt from this, so you simply print money, more and more debt piles on, but it is game of russian roulette, as all of us hold dollars, and have not yet cut our losses, due to your military enforcing the dollar at gunpoint.

The USA actual national debt is over 200 trillion dollars. ($14 trillion in 'official debt', plus $111 trillion in unfunded mandates (Social Security, Medicaid, etc), plus the over $80 trillion in toxic debts that the Federal Reserve (a PRIVATE bank, as are the IMF, the ECB, the World Bank, and the big one, the Bank of International Settlements) has traded treasury debt for over the last 10 years and parked in off-shore holding companies such s Maiden Lane I, II, and III, etc).

At some point soon, the dollar will no longer be accepted due to massive systemic devaluation. At that point, the USA will have to take oil and commodities and food by sheer force. That is called world war, and that is my worst nightmare. Here in Sweden, for all our relative well-being, could be snapped into splinters at the whim of the international bankers, we are too small to fight it.

The USA is considered, to borrow a phrase, too big to fail, but the bankers have hijacked the monetary system, and have racked up such huge debts that they can never be paid back. They will use the sovereign debt alone to turn all nations and our citizens into debt peonage slavery. Just look at what is happening in Ireland, Greece, Hungary, Spain, the UK, etc. This will come to the USA, thru sheer laws of simple math, and at that point, war will come. Every major war since Napoleon (including the Bolsheviks, Nazis, and Mao) has been financed on BOTH sides by the international banking system that now controls the worlds wealth at ever-increasing levels each day. War only profits one group, these very same bankers, and they will use it every time.

[ProSense]

132. What? n/t

[stockholmer]

136. look at the numbers, in regards to what the USA actually spends, and what it actually owes

there will be a huge debate over many important and not important programmes

the hatred will flow, people will be hurt by the ending of vital services

but the huge bulk of your expenditures (non discretionary and military empiric spending)

will never even be adressed, as only small percentge of 19% of your budget is even open to debate

the nation will be torn apart in debate over what amounts to a drop in the bucket in the overall fiscal schema

meanwhile the war machine and interest paid to the bankers rolls on and all others suffer

then, when it gets to breaking point, the pension funds will be seized, and social security will collapse as well, just like in rest of world




Trillions In Secret Fed Bailouts For Global Corporations And Foreign Banks – Has The Fed Become Some Kind Of Financial God?

http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2010/12/03/trillions-in-secret-fed-bailouts-for-global-corporations-and-foreign-banks-%E2%80%93-has-the-fed-become-a-completely-unaccountable-global-bailout-machine/


Over US$ 100 Trillion Additional Credit Needed to Support Global Growth Says World Economic Forum

http://www.weforum.org/news/over-us-100-trillion-additional-credit-needed-support-global-growth

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/davos/8267768/World-needs-100-trillion-more-credit-says-World-Economic-Forum.html

[LeftishBrit]

164. 'Just look at what is happening in ... the UK, etc.'

What is happening is being caught up in a world recession, caused largely by the greed and incompetence of the banks and other financial institutions. And at least in the case of the UK, the Tory party using it as an excuse to impose massive spending cuts in the public services, as part of their general ideology. They did the same under Thatcher, even when there was no similar crisis. It's part of being a Tory. And the same with some of the other countries you mention; combined with pressures from the IMF, which has always pursued a pro-cuts agenda.

We are not being 'turned into debt peonage slavery' by overspending; and, like most recessions, this will end eventually - but many lives may be ruined by public service cuts and unemployment in the meantime.

And while the banking industry has a lot of blame for the current recession, I really don't think that bankers financed the Bolsheviks or Mao! War doesn't only benefit the bankers. It benefits various powerful groups who think they can defeat each other and gain more power. It benefits the arms industry, which is one of the biggest industries around. Etc/

[stockholmer]

146. links to the $1 plus trillion spent on military each year and the over $200 trillion actual debt

Defense Spending Is Much Greater than You Think (over $1 trillion per year)

http://www.independent.org/blog/index.php?p=5827


$200 trillion in actual US debt

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/boston-universitys-kotlikoff-explains-why-us-bankrupt

http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/us-government-hiding-true-amount-of-debt/story-e6frfkur-1225926567256

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html



$112 plus trillion in unfunded mandates, and many other debt stats as sourced from official US government sources and the US Federal Reserve

http://usdebtclock.org/

[cali]

144. don't link to the worst anti-semitic dog shit.

[cali]

142. oh for fuck's sake. it's clear you know jack shit about Rand Paul

He wants to slash food stamps, get rid of the EPA and on and on- and that's all in this story- which has gotten a lot of coverage. His plan to slash 500 billion is utterly disastrous for working and poor people- HERE IN THE U.S.

[davidinalameda]

94. maybe if terrorists weren't lobbing bombs at Israelis

and suicide bombers weren't blowing up buses, then maybe Israel wouldn't need as many bombs and weapons to protect its citizens

[Violet_Crumble]

96. There's been no suicide bombings for a few years, so what are you talking about?

And even if they were, how can you justify the US giving Israel weapons to kill innocent civilians? Do you think killing innocent civilians would stop it? How is it not just as bad as killing Israeli civilians?

And why do you ignore Israeli terrorists, who reside in the West Bank and attack innocent Palestinians? Do they get a free pass because they're not Arabs or Muslims?

[davidinalameda]

149. maybe when the Iranians and the others

stop arming those "innocent" Palestinians, Hamas comes to mind, and the Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon, maybe the US will stop

maybe you're giving the Palestinians a free pass because they're not Jewish or Israelis

[Violet_Crumble]

160. So according to you there's no such thing as innocent Palestinians...

Yr silence when it comes to why you ignore terrorism carried out by Israelis on innocent Palestinians speaks volumes. Painting ugly and untrue generalisations about a population that's been brutally occupied by Israel for decades seems to be popular in some circles in the US. How anyone could cheer along the US funding Israel's weapons and discarding the killing of Palestinian civilians by making out none of them are innocent still stuns me, even after seeing comments like that more than once here....

Me? I'm opposed to attacks on all civilians, no matter who they are. I don't give a shit if they're Israeli or Palestinian - they're all innocent, and I think yr comments in yr post about Palestinian civilians was so ugly and wrong.


And just a reminder. There's been no suicide bombings for a long while, so you trying to make out they happen now is totally incorrect.

[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomp]

147. maybe israel should give up its brutal oppression of the palestinians....

....and then, perhaps, no one would be throwing bombs at them.

[TheDebbieDee]

19. I agree that we should cut our aid to Israel......Israel should

should be sending aid to US!

[The abyss]

22. Recommend!

Thanks for posting Judi.

I am sure that there are some roads & bridges that could use TLC in the US of A. Plus public schools, a health care system, decent veteran's care.... the list does go on and on.

[oberliner]

29. Rand Paul supports public schools and health care?

You think that is what will come of this money if he gets his wish?

[The abyss]

37. We need that money in the here and now

I don't care if it gets promoted by the democrats, republicans, tea baggers or the zombie secessionist party!

We can argue about how to deal with the funding AFTER it stops flowing out of the country.

[oberliner]

44. He supports cutting money for those programs you listed as well

I don't think you fully understand Rand Paul's plan here with respect to the budget and how this cutting of foreign aid figures into it.

[The abyss]

61. This is how the vietnam war ended

They simply stopped funding it. (in the house of course)

Proposals are one thing, agendas another.

One way or the other I like the idea! We can sort out the wash after the fact.

[Ter]

138. The money saved isn't to spend

It's needed to pay our 14 trillion dollar deficit.

[AndyTiedye]

23. Even a Clock that Runs Backwards Tells the Right Time Once in a While

[defendandprotect]

26. Israel is our foothold in the ME has been since Nixon ... and we may actually own it?

And run it?

Who knows -- ?

But sending israel money for more warmongering and warmaking is the wrong thing

to do -- financing weapons -- wrong thing to do!

[The abyss]

32. US foothold since May of 1948

The brits were totally spent after the 2nd world war, no time between the wars to "gear up" or "birth up". They held the major western influence in the middle east and were to have inherited it after the war, they lacked the money, infrastructure, man power to do no more than fight some non-sense actions in Kenya & Malaysia.

The US stepped up to the plate with a brand new idea. Exodus!

Truman hit the ball out of the park.

The gift that keeps on giving!

[defendandprotect]

40. Agree ... but like US, imo, Israeli leadership is pro-war, citizens not ....

Agree re British -- same with French in Vietnam -- we were financing their war there and

then took it over.

However, according to a terrific book called "The Secret War Against the Jews" by Aarons --

which is a minomer because it deals with a whole ton of stuff -- it was NELSON ROCKEFELLER

who gave the final OK for Israel as homeland -- with the proviso that there be no further search

for Nazis. Only one to persist in that was Simon Weisenthal. Otherwise, the Nazis made

a clean get away -- evidently also with the gold -- thru the Vatican's rat holes. With a

great deal of elite help!

[ProSense]

27. Here are Paul's budget cuts

The Washington Examiner (the PDF at Paul's site)


LEGISLATIVE BRANCH...............................$1,283,000,000. (23%)
Notes: The Government Printing Office is abolished.

JUDICIAL BRANCH......................................$2,434,000,000. (32%)

AGRICULTURE............................................$42,542,000,000. (30%)
The Agriculture Research Service, National Institute of Food and Agriculture, Resources Conservation Service, and Foreign Agricultural Service are abolished. The Forest Service gets a $1.2 billion haircut.

COMMERCE...................................................$5,322,000,000. (54%)
National Oceanic And Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is cut by $857,000,000.

DEFENSE.......................................................$47,500,000,000. (6.5%)

EDUCATION..................................................$78,000,000,000 (83%)
Only the Pell grant program survives.

ENERGY............................................................$44,200,000,000 (100%)
The Defense Department takes over all of Energy's remaining functions (nuclear waste, for example) and about $18 billion of its budget.

HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES..............$26,510,000,000. (26%)
Notes: FDA is cut by $230,000,000; Indian Health Service is cut by $650 million; CDC is cut by $1.17 billion; NIH by $5.8 billion.

HOMELAND SECURITY.................................$23,765,000,000. (43%)
Notes: Coast Guard is shifted to Defense. TSA's funds are cut by $900 million.

HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT....$53,100,000,000. (100%)
Notes: Completely eliminated. Veterans' housing programs are transferred to the VA

INTERIOR........................................................$10,934,000,000. (78%)
Bureau of Reclamation and Bureau of Indian Affairs are abolished.

JUSTICE.............................................................$9,057,000,000. (28%)
Note: Office of Justice Programs is abolished.

LABOR....................................................$2,803,000,000. (2%)
OSHA, MSHA, and the The Employment and Training Administration are spared all cuts (no cuts to unemployment benefits)

STATE...................................................................$20,321,000,000. (71%)
Note: Massive foreign aid cuts. All international commissions and organizations are defunded.

TRANSPORTATION............................................$42,810,000,000. (49%)
Notes: Amtrak is completely de-funded.

VETERANS’ AFFAIRS..........................................No cuts

CORPS OF ENGINEERS......................................$1,854,000,000. (27%)

EPA..............................................................$3,238,000,000. (29%)

GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION.....$1,936,000,000. (85%)

INTERNATIONAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS...$24,300,000,000 (100%)

NASA.........................................................................$4,500,000,000 (25%)

NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION...............$4,723,000,000. (62%)

OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT.......$9,070,000,000.

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.........No cuts

FCC...........................................................$2,150,000,000. (22%)

ABOLISH...............................................................$2,050,000,000. (100%)

(1) Affordable Housing Program.
(2) Commission on Fine Arts.
(3) Consumer Product Safety Commission.
(4) Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
(5) National Endowment for the Arts.
(6) National Endowment for the Humanities.
(7) State Justice Institute.

MISC

Collect delinquent taxes from Federal Employees........$3,000,000,000.
Freeze Federal Government employee pay...................$2,000,000,000.
Reduce Federal Government travel..............................$7,500,000,000.
Repeal Davis-Bacon..................................................... $6,000,000,000.
Prohibit union project labor agreements......................$2,000,000,000.
TARP repeal.................................................................$4,481,000,000.
Sell Federal Buildings..................................................$19,000,000,000.
Reduce Federal vehicle budget..........................................$600,000,000.

[quakerboy]

39. I agree with Rand Paul

on the following


SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION.........No cuts
VETERANS’ AFFAIRS......................No cuts

Thats about it however.

[ProSense]

48. That's what happens when the link is to a RW site. Actually

the cuts are worse.

[krabigirl]

53. I do agree about homeland security..but i would go further. Abolish it. And cut more from defense.

Other than that, the list looks scary.

[ProSense]

54. " Other than that, the list looks scary. " And

it's actually more crazy than that site lets on.

[AlbertCat]

123. ABOLISH

(1) Affordable Housing Program.
(2) Commission on Fine Arts.
(3) Consumer Product Safety Commission.
(4) Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
(5) National Endowment for the Arts.
(6) National Endowment for the Humanities.
(7) State Justice Institute.



The only civilized country that does not support the arts. I guess we're all supposed to live in cinder block cubicles with one door and one window.

I know the arts seem like a luxury in this country, but for a life with some kind of value, they are essential.

Make churches and corporations pay a minimum tax, make the wealthy 2% pay up, perhaps run a defensive military instead of an offensive (pun intended) military.... and we probably could pay for this and get a personal tax cut.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jae1227]

33. He want to end ALL foreign aid, I find it hard to believe most people on DU agree with that

[defendandprotect]

43. Frequently we're lending governments money so they can buy weapons from us -- !!

Depends on what the "aid" is for, imo --

I'd be against any further funding of Israeli warmongering and warmaking!

[defendandprotect]

45. How about US taxpayer "aid" to the RCC/Vatican? Most of the "faith based" religious

organizations we're subsidizing are run by the Vatican/RCC --

Last figures I saw years ago were something like $500 million!!

Notice also that W arrived on the Vatican scene just as the Vatican hit

its most desperate need for money for their pedophile lawsuits!

Also convenient that W ended up in a "Crusade" against Muslims in ME!


????

[pampango]

67. Foreign aid goes to foreigners ("them", "others"). When you wonder if "most" on DU agree

with cutting it all ... well, let's just say it would make for an interesting poll question.

Paul also wants the US out of the UN, WTO, IMF and World Bank in the interest of national sovereignty. The degree to which DU agrees with him might make for another interesting poll.

http://www.randpaul2010.com/issues/q-z/sovereignty/

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pjt7]

41. Cut the massive $$ give away to Israel

& Egypt.

Love it.

[oberliner]

46. Lots of love for the most right-wing Republican in the Senate

Bizarre.

[HERVEPA]

60. If it's anti-Israel, it'll get love here

[joshcryer]

79. Yep, almost entirely based upon naivety.

[pjt7]

64. Our foreign policy has been criminal

& wrecking us financially. I don't care about R's or D's on this issue & neither should you.

[oberliner]

69. Rand Paul's budget proposal is criminal

Have you taken the time to look at it? It is posted upthread.

[pjt7]

72. Obama lied to me when I voted for him

He told me he was going to cut wastefull GOV. Baloney

Sorry man, but i think your not seeing this issue w/ clear eyes.

[totodeinhere]

78. Wrong yes, criminal no. I don't see anything in his proposals that would violate any law. n/t

[oberliner]

103. Criminal meaning senseless or foolish

As in: It's criminal to waste so much good food.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/criminal

[Violet_Crumble]

105. People can be opposed to his budget proposal and still oppose aid to Israel...

Is there some reason why you think they can't?

[ProSense]

85. delete. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

104. Agreeing with one thing he says is not 'lots of love'...

Most people do agree with him that aid to Israel should be cut. That doesn't mean they love him at all. Or do you really think that people who support cutting aid to Israel should suddenly change their 'anti-Israel' view and go for the opposite of what Rand Paul thinks just to be different to him?

[oberliner]

106. The word "love" was used in the post to which I was responding

That word is also used twice in other response to the OP as well.

Generally favorable responses (including ones that actually use the word "love") = lots of love.

[Violet_Crumble]

113. They did NOT say they had lots of love for Paul...

You claimed there was lots of love for Paul. That's not at all what the poster you responded to said. They loved the idea of stopping aid to Israel. I love the idea of the US stopping aid to Israel, but that by no means I have lots of love for the most RW Republican or have said I did...

[Ter]

141. He's more up and to the right than pure right-wing

Up is Libertarian, and down is Authoritarian.

[LeftishBrit]

169. His 'libertarianism' consists of being laissez-faire on economics, and reducing powers of the

FEDERAL government. As far as he's concerned, state governments can be as oppressive as they like.

He is opposed to all abortion, even in cases of rape; and to gay marriage. Unlike his father he opposes the closure of Gitmo. I don't consider any of that as libertarian.

OK, he's not in my country (for which I'm devoutly thankful!), but nowadays right-wingers of all countries influence one another, especially America and Britain given the 'special relationship'; and I think that it's important that we all unite in rejecting the economic and social Right.

[Ter]

172. That's why I said "up and to the right" rather than just up

He's not a true libertarian. He does oppose the Patriot Act however, and that in itself is his best position.

[DeSwiss]

49. Whoops!

AIPAC ain't gonna like this.

- K&R

[oberliner]

57. Rand Paul is not someone that anybody rational person should like

AIPAC member or otherwise.

[on point]

51. About time!!

[oberliner]

59. Rand Paul has been singing this tune for a while now

Part of the libertarian mantra. Cut everything.

[bluesmail]

52. What's his angle? eom

[oberliner]

58. Cut all foreign aid - cut lots of domestic spending

Cut cut cut cut cut.

[underpants]

55. hahaha now I know that I know more than a US Senator

Paul is a joke.

[riverwalker]

56. talk about the Elephant in the room....n/t

[totodeinhere]

62. It's easy for him to say that because he knows it will never happen.

It might win him points with his tea bagging base, but that's about it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Ok why did I guess Rand Paul before I opened the article?

[oberliner]

68. Why was Rand Paul's name not included in the title of the OP?

There are a myriad of articles on this topic that do so - why was one from a newspaper in Pakistan chosen that just happened to not name the senator in question for the OP?

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Because LBN requires you to post the header as is.

[oberliner]

74. But why choose that particular article with that particular headline?

Why choose an article from The Daily Times of Pakistan to introduce this topic in LBN?

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. the one the OP found

chances are that is the AP feed anyway.

[Violet_Crumble]

102. What's wrong with posting from that source?

There's no reason why anyone shouldn't post from the Daily Times of Pakistan, so I'm not sure what yr problem with it is...

[joshcryer]

81. LBN allows minor editoralizing in parenthesis (like this)

Simply putting (Rand Paul) in parenthesis would not have garnered a lock.

[oberliner]

107. Yes - good point

There was no reason not to include his name in parenthesis.

[Judi Lynn]

109. What's your problem? That's the article I saw. It's an Associated Press article.

It was not written by a Pakistanian reporter, you can probably take it on faith.

You must be leading a charmed life if you think most of us have the time to pass by the article we just saw by a major wire service, and go look for the same article from a different paper to please people like you.

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

What the #### does putting Rand Paul's name in the title have to do with anything? Take that up with the editor. We post the headlines as we find them. Use your head, if you can manage it.

[oberliner]

115. It's an AP article with a headline written by an editor at The Daily Times of Pakistan

The headline does not include the name of the senator - Rand Paul.

Seemed strange to choose that version of the story.

I've noticed that sometimes people choose from several different options for a story because they favor one particular headline over another. Have you noticed that? Perhaps it just illustrates that I have too much time on my hands.

In retrospect, I regret having brought up anything about it in the first place.

No offense intended.

[Hulk]

65. I tend to agree with him as well.

I suppose there is a downside to backing the little bully in the ME, but I'm not sure I really care.

[eagertolearn]

66. I agree too. We ned that money for are people and for the schools and

library's that are closing everywhere. Since that is part of our tax money shouldn't we have a say? I don't want it going to the wars either. Still wouldn't vote for the Tea Party ever but why can't we have that as a democratic stand?

[oberliner]

73. Rand Paul: Israel is a fountain of peace and democracy in the Middle East

I wonder what the response would have been if that was the headline.

That quote comes from the same interview.

Or "Rand Paul wants to cut all humanitarian aid to Africa."

Also mentioned in that interview.

[craigmatic]

76. I knew who it was before I read the article.

[JCMach1]

77. Rand Paul is anti-semitic in 3...2...1...

Of course, couldn't happen to a nicer bloke...

[Ter]

143. The Karl Rove/Bill Kristol neo-cons are already saying it on Freak Republic

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2664501/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2665391/posts

[Catherina]

84. Recommended in full agreement. n/t

[ProSense]

88. Why does Rand Paul want to cut all foreign aid but only 6.5 percent from defense?

In fact, while eliminating several agencies, Paul is cutting the war budget less than President Obama:

· War funding from 2001 to 2010 has cost the taxpayer $1.109 trillion. That amount doesn’t include the $159 billion that will likely be spent funding the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for FY2011. The proposal seeks to reduce war funding for FY2011 by $16 billion, in other words to provide $144 billion (President Obama has requested $117 billion for FY2012, $27 billion dollars below our proposed level).

more

I find it fascinating that Paul is garnering so much praise for this bit of demagoguery against Israel, which is being used to criticize the administration.

[oberliner]

91. J Street Alarmed by Senator Paul’s Call to End Foreign Aid

J Street is alarmed by Senator Rand Paul’s suggestion that the United States should end all foreign aid, including to Israel.

The foreign operations bill is a pillar of the US-Israel relationship and advances American diplomatic objectives by providing aid not just to Israel but to key partners in the Middle East and elsewhere across the globe.

Senator Paul’s proposal would undermine the decades-long bipartisan consensus on U.S. support for Israel. Any erosion of support should concern Israel’s friends on both sides of the political aisle, and we call in particular on leaders and donors in Senator Paul’s party to repudiate his comments and ensure that American leadership around the world is not threatened by this irresponsible proposal.

http://www.jstreet.org/blog/?p=1392

[Raksha]

156. Somehow I missed that, but I can't say I'm surprised.

That has to be one of the few things J Street and AIPAC agree on these days. I receive updates from J Street in my e-mail, but lately I've been so focused on the revolution in Egypt that I neglected to read that one.

[Leithan]

100. Odd, is it not?

Cutting education? Feeble protests. Curtailing funds for infrastructure? Yawn. Not giving Israel everything it wants??? OH NOES!!!!!

We're not talking about a 98-pound international weakling. Robust, well-equipped (by us) military, and NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS, HELLO???

Bring the troops home. Let Israel take care of its own goddam business.

[ProSense]

119. Please

respond to this poll. Thanks.

[ColesCountyDem]

121. He pretty much favors cutting everything. His objective is...

... to cut government until it's small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Don't waste your time applauding this douchebag-- he is NOT in any shape, form or fashion a friend or ally.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Scottybeamer70]

122. The 1976 Symington Amendment

specifically says that the US cannot send foreign aid to a country that is involved
in nuclear technology that is not for peaceful purposes........this would include all
countries that have NOT signed the Non Nuclear Proliferation Treaty ( NNPT). Israel
has always refused to sign the treaty and has refused any inspections..........
just sayin'..............THERE IS A TREATY.......WE BREAK IT EVERY YEAR!

[Ken Burch]

125. Well....Rand ain't gonna be president now.

We know THAT one for sure.

[Ter]

145. He may by 2016

With the tea baggers that will get elected in 2012 and 2014, he probably won't be alone.

[EvilMonsanto]

126. Whoa!

Why is everyone arguing with each other?

The cause is good, the person is irrelevant!
At least cutting aid to Israel is a good thing
Tomorrow Paul will probaby say something that we won't like tomorrow anyhow
Like something about the civil war

Cutting aid to Israel to fund an Apartheid is a bad thing, who cares who the one driving it is?
It's not like Kuccinich is a big fan of it either, maybe they can work together

Palestinians should not suffer for our partisan ideals

[shaayecanaan]

129. Im not sure why a relative non-story such as this qualifies for an exception to the usual

editorial policy that exists on this site with respect to stories pertaining to Israel/Palestine.

I would have thought that there were developments of far greater import particularly in recent days (the Palestine papers, for example, or developments in Lebanon) that may have been better qualified.

[Violet_Crumble]

134. I agree. My thread on US policy in the UN on Israel was sent to the I/P forum...

There doesn't appear to be any consistency at all when it comes to what stays in the big forums and what's hidden away in the very quiet I/P forum...

[earcandle]

130. We spend 39 Billion Dollars on those fucking wars? We need to invest that in JOBS.

[Obamanaut]

133. This is a good time to review and/or cease all foreign aid to everyone.

If even a portion of the corruption re the monies being ferried out of Egypt are only partially true (many threads on DU), why is it hard to imagine that little if any of the aid is actually getting into the bellies of the hungry kids?

Stop all the aid, all the military equipment, all the contract maintenance on any/all of the aircraft being used by the despotic leaders.

There are ample quantities of hungry kids here in the US that could use the assistance. Many bridges across the country need maintenance. Roads and sewer systems are in disrepair. There is plenty of stuff here in the US that could use that influx of money currently being used to line the pockets of foreign leaders.

[cali]

139. Cutting off all foreign aid? Moronic.

Agreeing with Rand Paul and praising him? Idiotic. Pathetic.

[olegramps]

151. It will play exactly with the right wing extremists.

You know, those God fearing Christians. They are in total agreement that the down trodden should be starved to death. Hell, they are for staving off our less fortunate citizens as nothing more than parasites. Its their Final Solution.

[upi402]

154. Taboo!

Wow, pinch me. We can't afford to buy-off entire nation states anymore. Duh!

[Enthusiast]

157. Rand wants to cut the aid

because he is a racist. I want to cut the aid because it is not right to play favorites in the Middle East just because we are of a certain majority religion. Besides, we should examine and reconsider any and all foreign aid.

[pampango]

158. Too many "I agree with Rand Paul"s to count. Ouch. n/t

[FooshIt]

161. If Rand Paul supports it then it must be a terrible idea

[L0oniX]

165. Why doesn't Germany pay the 3 billion a year instead of us?

[annabanana]

168. heh heh heh. . These tea party guys are going to give the old GOP

some serious heartburn, I think.

[LeftishBrit]

170. Hope they end up destroying each other!

[Renew Deal]

171. I thought "Rand" as soon as I read the subject.

Somehow it was obvious. Anyway, this is no surprise considering who some of his supporters are.