Neocons meeting with Obama at the White House today over Egypt

[Catherina]

Obama invites Elliott Abrams to the White House: between Jeffrety Feltman and Abrams, US Middle East strategy is in tatters

"INVITED TO THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY, per Laura Rozen: Michele Dunn of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and the Brookings Institution's Robert Kagan. They co-chair a bipartisan working group on Egypt. Also coming are others from their group, including Elliott Abrams, President’s Bush’s deputy national security adviser for the Mideast, and George Washington University Middle East expert Marc Lynch."

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/01/obama-invites-elliott-abrams-to-white.html

[villager]

1. "Bet you hope there'll be change -- there won't"

n/t

[Demeter]

80. No Change in DC, Maybe Most of US

Not so petrified in the rest of the world.

[H2O Man]

2. Sad.

Elliott Abrams should be incarcerated.

[Catherina]

4. Tragic n/t

[pscot]

3. Maybe the Whitehouse could get Ollie North

to drop by. He has a lot of relevant experience. I'm sure John Bolton is available too.

[Recursion]

17. Ollie North isn't a neoconservative

For a board this obsessed with neoconservatives, DU doesn't seem to have much of a grasp on who they actually are.

[grahamhgreen]

70. But he did 'screw up' the hostage rescue in Iran.

[jonnyblitz]

5. k & r. sickening but not surprising. nt

[frazzled]

6. Well, that's what everyone's been asking for, right?

All the criticism of Obama having cut "Democracy Funding" for the Middle East was specifically an endorsement of neocon policy. You were all saying he should have continued pouring money into the Elliot Abrams type democracy-building projects.

Now you've changed your minds?

P.S. I actually don't think it's a bad idea for him to listen to what the previous administration's middle-east experts have to say, no matter how much I (or he) disagrees with them. There may be some nuggets of information that are valuable. These are not completely stupid people, just ones with whom we disagree on policy. But they do have some facts about players and intrigue and such.

[Catherina]

7. We were? Total bullshit n/t

[frazzled]

13. Many, many were

It was a story from Huffington Post and elsewhere that was posted several dozen times here over the last few days, intending to criticize the Obama administration for switching this "Democracy Funds" to purely economic funding. Look it up.

[H2O Man]

9. Sad.

You may "just ....disagree on policy" with Abrams et al. But you are alone on this thread in that.

[grahamhgreen]

71. It doesn't take a think tank to suggest Mubarak step down, just common sense.

[sabrina 1]

88. Elliot Abrams is a rightwing crook.

He was convicted of two misdemeanors and only escaped prosecution on more serious charges because of Bush Sr. who pardoned him.

What is a rightwing crook doing giving advice to a Democratic President? When Bush Jr appointed him to his cabinet, there was outrage throughout the left blogosphere.

I did not support a Democrat to have him drag these ousted criminals back into the WH to give advice. What kind of advice do you get from a crook?

Disgusting, we kick them out of office, Norquist, Simpson, Abrams, Gregg et al only to have this president rescue them from political obscurity and give them power we thought we had taken away from them.

I know next time a Democrat runs for president, I have a whole list of questions I'd like answers to. Such as, 'do you intend to include Republicans in your cabinet?'

[liberal N proud]

8. Between them and Israel, the pressure will be for him to support Mubarak

[Demeter]

12. It's Too Late--That Boat Has Sailed

and if they try to board it, they'll be shot down like the pirates they are.

[Catherina]

16. He has unwaiveringly supported Mubarak. No pressure there. See this

"We do not want to send any message about backing forward or backing back,” she said. “What we’re trying to do is to help clear the air so that those who remain in power, starting with President Mubarak, with his new vice president, with the new prime minister, will begin a process of reaching out, of creating a dialogue that will bring in peaceful activists and representatives of civil society to, you know, plan a way forward that will meet the legitimate grievances of the Egyptian people."

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=636042B0-C220-425D-9485-96FE4D3E221D

Obama and Mubarak
Let me predict: when Mubarak lifts off from Cairo airport, Obama will call on Mubarak to step down.
Posted by As'ad at 1:35 PM

[leftynyc]

33. So let me get this straight

The US should stay out of everyone's affair's except for when we shouldn't?

[Catherina]

42. Today's new talking point is already worn out leftnyc n/t

[leftynyc]

44. I have no idea what you're talking about

I've gone through several years listening to the left claim we need to butt out of everyone's business and now you're complaining that we aren't getting involved. Care to explain or are you just going to ignore the hypocrisy because it makes you uncomfortable?

[Erose999]

60. Ha-Nutty was all about supporting Mubarak on his radio show Friday. I kind of got the feeling that

they are quite chummy. Ha-nutty made it sound like him and Mubarak have one of those chess games you play through the mail going on. And missus Ha-nutty sends the Mubaraks a fruitcake every X-mas.

[ProSense]

10. They weren't at the meeting

Inside the White House-Egypt experts meeting

<...>

George Washington University Middle East expert and Foreign Policy.com Middle East channel editor Marc Lynch; the National Security Network's Joel Rubin, a former State Department Egypt desk officer; the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace's Michele Dunne, a former NSC and State Department Policy Planning and Egypt embassy official who co-chair a bipartisan working group on Egypt); Council on Foreign Relations's Egypt expert Steve Cook; the New America Foundation's Steve Clemons; Center for American Progress Middle East expert Brian Katulis, and former U.S. Amb. to Israel Martin Indyk, now with the Brookings Institution and an advisor to George Mitchell.

Elliott Abrams, the former Bush White House Middle East/democracy advisor, was invited but couldn't go. "I had other commitments I did not think I could fairly cancel at such short notice," Abrams told POLITICO. While another colleague tried to soften Abrams's implication he had better things to do than offer counsel to the White House, saying he thought he was out of town, in fact Abrams said he had already committed to speak to the AJC along with Jordanian former diplomat Marwan Muasher.

The Brookings Institution's Robert Kagan, who co-chairs the Egypt working group, wanted to go but couldn't get a flight back from California in time to make it.

It was a good, serious meeting, an attendee said afterwards.

<...>

[Catherina]

18. That list is just as bad. The point stands. Even more neocon thugs. Shame on Obama n/t

[JuniperLea]

21. You should update your OP with the truth... eom

[Catherina]

23. Thanks. I added the names of the additional neocons meeting with Obama today n/t

[SoCalDem]

25. Negroponte oozed out from under the bridge & showed up on TV last night

who's next? Bolton?

[Catherina]

27. The whole crew is on overtime now. Never seen such a panic n/t

[Kweli4Real]

38. Why is meeting with the Neocons a bad idea?

We, the Left, claim to value being high information decision makers; we don't get there listening to one side of an issue.

[Hydra]

67. Where is the counterbalance?

Assuming we actually followed that narrative. Obama is the one who thinks the RW has "Good ideas."

[emulatorloo]

68. Obama has lots of advisors and none of them are neocons

So there is your counterbalance.

[hulka38]

76. Let's hear from the group

with no credibility and ulterior motives.

[QC]

82. If the girls get sick, why not bring in Pat Robertson for some faith healing?

It's OK, if he also consults an actual doctor at some point.

[chimpymustgo]

86. LOL. Great analogy.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Oh cool. That makes it OK.

:sarcasm:

[JuniperLea]

20. Too late; the first thing read will be the only thing allowed in some minds...

For far too many, there will be an insistence that they were there. Truth be damned. "So what? Obama asked them there... neener neener." Just getting ahead of the rush to condemn.

[Kweli4Real]

37. I don't know,

call me patriotic or something, but ...

If my President calls me to discuss just about anything, let alone a matter in which I claim expertise ... I'm there!

The only thing that might keep me away would be the birth of my child.

[bvar22]

58. Problem is...

..their "expertise" is in FAILED Foreign Policy.

[Recursion]

11. The same working group that urged Obama to cut all military aid on Friday?

Doesn't sound very neoconservative to me...

[tekisui]

14. Sickening.

[annabanana]

15. Clearly THEIR track record is stellar. . .

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[alsame]

22. PNAC 2.0 nt

[joeunderdog]

62. Yup. And we all have to meet with the people who gave us our job, too.

These people are still in power.

[Renew Deal]

24. The same people that criticized Bush for not talking to outsiders now criticize Obama

for talking to outsiders. Talking to someone you disagree with doesn't mean that you will change your mind, but maybe there is something they can teach you.

[RufusTFirefly]

29. He was CONVICTED of withholding evidence from Congress and was instrumental

... in the whole Iran-Contra Affair.

This is not just some guy with a differing opinion.

Even as far back as 2001, the Nation's David Corn was appalled when Bush chose to resurrect Abrams

"How would you feel if your wife and children were brutally raped before being hacked to death by soldiers during a military massacre of 800 civilians, and then two governments tried to cover up the killings?" It's a question that won't be asked of Elliott Abrams at a Senate confirmation hearing- because George W. Bush, according to press reports, may appoint Abrams to a National Security Council staff position that (conveniently!) does not require Senate approval. Moreover, this query is one of a host of rude, but warranted, questions that could be lobbed at Abrams, the Iran/contra player who was an assistant secretary of state during the Reagan years and a shaper of that Administration's controversial-and deadly-policies on Latin America and human rights. His designated spot in the new regime: NSC's senior director for democracy, human rights and international operations. (At press time, the White House and Abrams were neither confirming nor denying his return to government.)

More

[Arkana]

26. BURN HIM! BURN THE WITCH!

[scarletwoman]

28. Do you ever read Pat Lang's blog, Sic Semper Tyrannis?

It's the home of some excellent foreign policy commentary and analyses by both Pat Lang himself, and many of his regular group of commenters. It's not a home for starry-eyed liberals or leftists of any stripe, however Pat Lang is unequivocally anti-neocon and anti-likudnik.

Anyway, I found the comments about Egypt below to be very interesting food for thought. The thread they came from is here:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2011/01/more-sensible-attitudes-on-egypt-today.html

Eventually, it will dawn on the US foreign policy establishment that it cannot keep the lid on the Middle East any longer and frog march the local leader-vassals into bed with Israel.

The "street" (moderate middle class persons in this case) has just sent a message about economic conditions and so on. One would expect the next message, which is implicit, will relate to the US and its marcher state, Israel.

So what about the US and what about Israel?

1. Perhaps the pro-Israel lobby will get nervous about Obama: good guy, pro-Israel, but not a good manager of domestic and foreign policy. Thus Israel might become more threatened.

What to do?

Shift in 2012 to support a staunch pro-Israel Republican and use the Tea Party and Christian Zionists as leverage within the party to this end.

2. Israel, seeing that the US cannot keep "the Arabs" on a leash any more concludes that now is a good time for a game changer in the region: a war. War against Lebanon, war against Lebanon and Syria, war against Lebanon and Syria and Iran, maybe all three and a whack at Egypt, too.

The basic idea would be to set the region back about 25 years so as to strengthen Israel's position.

Posted by: Clifford Kiracofe | 30 January 2011 at 04:20 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems there is a new self-appointed group of Beltway "intellectuals" yakking (sp?) about Egypt.

1. This sort of Neoconnish coffee klatch styles itself somewhat grandiosely: "Egypt Working Group".

Savvy journalist Lauren Rozen, bless her, has the story:

"Only free and fair elections provide the prospect for a peaceful transfer of power to a government recognized as legitimate by the Egyptian people,” the Egypt working group called in a statement Saturday. Other members include co-chair and former U.S. official Michele Dunne of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, former Bush NSC official Elliott Abrams, Human Rights Watch's Tom Malinowski, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy's Robert Satloff, and the Center for American Progress's Brian Katulis."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0111/
Exofficials_urge_Obama_to_suspend_aid_to_Egypt.html?showall#

2. Then Rozen has this nugget: "They also said that some members of the administration were influenced by Israel’s concern at losing a reliable peace partner."

3. Israel-centric Neoconnish types in the group like Kagan and Abrams, not to mention Satloff, have their own agenda: Israel. They are supporting "democracy" and "elections" for Egypt. They want Mubarak out and US aid suspended.

So just how do we interpret this Neoconnish pro-Israel clique's angle?

A wide open election, of course, would bring the MB (my note: Muslim Brotherhood) into the picture, unless what the Egypt Working Group means is an election without the MB or any other "anti-Israel" political party. It would also bring other parties, whatever they might be, which are "anti-Israel."

Because Egyptian public opinion is across the board "anti-Israel" any new "democratic" parties would logically reflect this.

This would not be "good for Israel" thus we will have to pay attention to what the working group means by elections.

On the other hand, the Neocons could calculate that such elections would destabilize Egypt and thus be good for Israel because the US would tighten relations with Israel and loosen relations with a "radical" Egypt.

A destabilized Egypt with "anti-Israel" overtones would also provide useful context should Israel be planning a larger regional war.

Posted by: Clifford Kiracofe | 31 January 2011 at 07:20 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Egyptian judges and scholars from world’s prestigious Islamic seminary Al-Azhar joined mass protests, calling for an end to Mubarak’s 30-year rule."
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article1141785.ece?homepage=true

And a million people in the streets this week? This time perhaps ones wearing galabias?

Seems like the sons and daughters of the Nile are awakened...

Posted by: Clifford Kiracofe | 31 January 2011 at 08:02 AM

sw

[Catherina]

30. Thank you. They're all acting like they're "about to lose a precious baby".

Ethan Bronner freaking out

"For the United States, Egypt is the keystone of its Middle East policy,” a senior official said. “For Israel, it’s the whole arch.”" When New York Times or Israel say "Egypt" they mean, Mubarak of course. You read this article and you almost want to cry: it is like a story about parents who are about to lose a precious baby.

Posted by As'ad at 6:38 AM

[ellie]

31. Maybe he is gathering

them all together to have them arrested. A girl can dream.

[ProSense]

32. Marc Lynch and Brian Katulis are neocons? n/t

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobthedrummer]

35. President Obama might as well "invite" a couple more ME "experts" Elizabeth Cheney

and the Afghan niece of former DCI Richard Helms Laili Helms who also was the Taliban's US PR "person"-both of these women are well experienced in ME affairs too.

While were discussing neocons and their allies take a serious look at the United States Institute of Peace/USIP-both Laili and Liz are well connected to that Orwellian titled front group.

United States Institute of Peace (USIP experts page)
http://www.usip.org/experts

United States Institute of Peace (Source Watch page)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=United_States_Institute_of_Peace

Elizabeth Cheney(Source Watch profile)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Elizabeth_Cheney

[Catherina]

41. They probably videoconference in. Thanks Bob n/t

[bobthedrummer]

45. Easy to do that when you've got access to "privatized" earth orbiting networks

which, in the context of neocons and their allies, is a reality- and all part of project "national security".

[Catherina]

51. How much money do we spend a year on "national security". Any idea? n/t

[bobthedrummer]

57. We're talking about black budgets here-derived from crime--no idea at all n/t

[Catherina]

63. I figured if anyone could take an educated guess, it would be you. Thanks n/t

[blindpig]

36. Hey, when Empire's the game you go with the pros.

They know what they want and they know how to get it.

[Catherina]

43. Naked as a jaybird right now n/t

[markpkessinger]

73. The trouble is the jig's been up on the "empire" business for quite some time now n/t

[Desertrose]

39. Wha???

Why??

[bobthedrummer]

40. "We do think-tank sessions on an almost weekly basis...the goal is to bring in some of the top

opinion leaders and thinkers on a given subject and have a candid conversation. We've done it with China, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Today's topic is Egypt."

Below are some alternatives to most of those "opinions" Mr. President.

Project For An Old American Century
http://www.oldamericancentury.com

Right Web
http://rightweb.irc-online.org

[TBF]

46. Why should today be different than any other day? We'll be lucky if he doesn't bring in

Xe Services, LLC (aka Blackwater) to "manage" the situation.

[bobthedrummer]

48. That's more Hillary's realm, and it's a fact. n/t

[TBF]

53. I think we've seen enough to know Hillary and Barack are in the same realm. nt

[Catherina]

50. True point. Blackwater has probably already been called in. n/t

[barbiegeek]

47. I'd listen 2 them & do the opposite-HA HA

[Catherina]

49. Ok, that was funny n/t

[barbiegeek]

52. I seriously think that is what he does

Or he listens to them then when they're gone, they have a good laugh at the idiots.

[Catherina]

54. Ok, that's not funny n/t

[TBF]

55. I wish that were true - but when we see folks like Arne Duncan in a cabinet position

it's hard to defend him. I'd love to believe Barack Obama was really interested in helping people, but I see a man who knows who he is working for and throws us crumbs at best. And now he is doing exactly the same to the people of Egypt. I'll give him one thing - he's consistent.

[barbiegeek]

56. Bush ignore Powell, Obama can too, Obama said he'd have a cabinet of Rivals like Lincoln

I swear, Obama tells us he'll have a cabinet with different views and then people get upset when he does it. It's hypocritical to me. I think a cabinet of rivals is good.

[TBF]

59. You may think it's good, workers worldwide continue to suffer. Enjoy your "freedom" . nt

[barbiegeek]

61. He can listen & ignore

[TBF]

66. I'd rather have a president with original ideas who spent his time wisely.

A strategy of "listen and ignore"? Seriously?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Kinda like bringing in the Sopranos to discuss banking policy.

[RufusTFirefly]

65. A shame Elliot couldn't make it. For atrocities and coups, he's the go-to guy n/t

[Dokkie]

74. No

its more like bringing in Geithner and The Bernanke to discuss banking policy

[grahamhgreen]

69. You don't need a think tank to decide to suggest Mubarak step down. This means trouble.

[markpkessinger]

72. Well, Mr. President . . .

Hell, Mr. President, why not just give Rummie his old job back, along with Wolfowitz and all the rest! Or is this just another example of "moving to the center" (which is somewhere to the right of Ronald Reagan, apparently). Gawd!

[Dokkie]

75. K & R

[peacetalksforall]

77. Obama invited the Council on Foreign Relations ror people connected to its magazine

and writer group.

[defendandprotect]

78. This is absolutely sickening -- sickening -- sickening -- !!

[slay]

79. Change you can.. aw hell does anyone

actually believe that crap anymore? Ugh. What is the point of having a Dem president when he surrounds himself with republicans and covers up the war crimes of the previous republican president. seriously. :puke:

[bread_and_roses]

81. planning to spin more lies about how we're such good friends of the people, no doubt

Matthew Rothschild tells it like it is:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/31-10

Who’s Hillary Clinton Kidding on Egypt?

by Matthew Rothschild

On Friday, Hillary Clinton urged "restraint" and Obama urged "reform." But neither endorsed the demand of the Egyptian people to be rid of their dictator.

And then Clinton told a whopper on Sunday. "We are on the side" of the Egyptian people, "as we have been for more than 30 years," she told Candy Crowley of CNN.

Who does Clinton think she's fooling with this crap? ...

... At times like this, such bald-faced lies don't fool anyone, especially not the Egyptian people.

[Catherina]

83. NO! She didn't dare say that.

:wow:

"We are on the side" of the Egyptian people, "as we have been for more than 30 years," she told Candy Crowley of CNN.

[bobthedrummer]

84. Neocons and their allies truly utilized "full spectrum dominance" , they still do-they can't

control the perception of reality by We, the people anymore--nor hide their crimes against all humanity, nor remain unaccountable.

Their time is up, President Obama.

[bobthedrummer]

85. Whoever listens to WAR CRIMINALS and TRAITORS is complicit

[Catherina]

87. Inconvenient article now. n/t