Breaking in Houston: Our 9 Rottweilers ate our baby. What. The. Fuhhh...

[elehhhhna]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?

HOUSTON -- From the confines of their kennels at Harris County Animal Control, the nine dogs don't seem particularly threatening. But they are at the center of a heart-wrenching investigation.

One of them killed 3-month-old Jeannette Vaughan in northwest Harris County on Sunday.

"Because of so many dogs, we don't know exactly which of the animals was the dog that mauled the child," said Deputy Thomas Gilliland of the Harris County Sheriff's Office. "That's one reason animal control seized all of the animals."

http://www.khou.com/news/cnn/Family-pet-kills-infant-in-Northwest-Harris-County-112209764.html

[hobbit709]

1. Proof once again that many people with children shouldn't be allowed to have any.

[lukasahero]

11. Exactly. eom

[demwing]

12. Did you read the article?

This is a tragic story, but not one of abuse.

[hobbit709]

15. Who said anything about abuse?

If you had to pass a test to be a parent that was as easy as a driving test, a fair percentage of people would fail.

[TexasObserver]

19. It is a story of parental negligence and bad dog owners.

They have a pack of Rotts in the backyard. Two of them were known to be hostile to the baby. The mother was bathing a Rott in the house and while she was doing so, one of the dogs from the yard got in and killed the baby, who was sitting in a room other than the room the mother was in.

These people shouldn't have dogs or children.

[LiberalLoner]

20. But don't you KNOW....ALL parents are angels straight from heaven, who never do wrong and

are NEVER to blame! NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!

Parents NEVER do bad things to their children or let bad things happen!

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE does not happen la la la la la :sarcasm:

[demwing]

22. Got any evidence in THIS story?

la la la la?

[TexasObserver]

27. When your baby is eaten by your dog, you've failed Parenting.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. Bingo. Hard to debate that kind of reasoning. n/t

[demwing]

55. That's easy to say when it's not your tragedy

But I would challenge you to say the same thing to this mother's face.

Do you not think she's already told herself the same thing over and over? Do you not think she'll be haunted by the death of her infant for the rest of her life? Can you not see that this was a misfortune of grave dimension? What sense of self satisfaction do you get from passing judgment when your entire understanding of the event comes through the filter of the same main stream media that we at DU daily condemn for their inability to tell a simple story without spinning in the most horrendous elements of social bias and cheap side-show sensationalism?

[Barack_America]

57. It's easy to ACCEPT when it's not your tragedy.

But there is a undeniable element of truth in the poster's statement.

[demwing]

62. You equate sympathy and empathy with acceptance?

That I understand and feel for this family does not mean that accept what happened with a shrug of my shoulders.

Be serious. You don't have to condemn a person because they made an error, even if the error was horrible and fatal. Sometimes bad shit happens, and sometimes there really is no one to blame.

[Barack_America]

65. No. I'm separating fact from an emotional response.

[TexasObserver]

76. It's easy to say because it's obviously true.

How lousy the mother feels now is not the issue.

These are bad parents who are also bad dog owners.

Some people lack the sense or skills to be parents.

This kind of event doesn't happen except with people who can't recognize that big dogs and babies don't belong together.

[demwing]

81. They were not left together. That's been stated repeatedly

but whatever. Be judgmental. It's yours, so own it.

[TexasObserver]

83. The mother left the baby in one room and went into another room.

The ONLY thing stopping the dogs in the backyard from getting to the baby was a makeshift arrangement the mother put in place using an appliance to block an entry way. The makeshift block didn't work, and a dog came in and killed her baby.

She kept the baby in close proximity to the big dogs. She allowed a big dog access to the baby by virtue of her negligence. Her failure to use good judgment caused the baby's death. Her failure to have enough sense not to allow big dogs around her baby cost the baby its life.

[demwing]

94. Your definition of "Allow" is a stretch.

The mom fucked up. Her baby died. It's a horrible tragedy. Fucking horrible.

The police have not pressed charges. Why?

Not one person in this thread has the right, or the ability to judge a person based on what they read in a newspaper article.

Not you, not me.

[TexasObserver]

100. Every poster here has the right to judge the mother's conduct.

There's a big difference between my criticizing the mother for her actions and your attacking me for properly expressing that opinion. The former is within the rules. The latter is not. We're supposed to form judgments about current events and express them here. We're not supposed to attack other posters here whose judgment about current events departs from our own. Please read Skinner's many posts on this topic, typically where he locks threads.

[demwing]

101. I'm "attacking" you?

that's rich

[GSLevel9]

104. that about sums it up... nt

[demwing]

21. Do you have additional material not in that article?

I don't see that part "Two of them were known to be hostile to the baby"

What you wrote is not included in the text or the video.

What I do see is the following: "The Harris County Sheriff's Office is investigating, but said it appears to be nothing more than a horribly tragic accident. As for the dogs, which have no history of attacks, ultimately the family will determine their fates."

[TexasObserver]

26. Yes. Why don't you take some time to read other stories about this?

Browse Houston news outlets.

The story has been all over the Houston news. There are a half dozen news channels you can consult.

Here's one column, to get you started.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7348291.html

[demwing]

53. Exactly why I asked if there were data outside this story

thanks for the links, I'll read them

[demwing]

60. Thanks for the read, It helped

underscore my original thoughts.

The very first bit:

"Alva Vaughn figured if she slid the washing machine and a heavy slab of marble up against the back of the door, it would keep her powerful Rottweilers out of the house and away from her baby girl who was snuggled up in an infant swing. She was wrong."

So all the critics here, who act as if the mother left the child alone with 9 rottweilers, tell me if this doesn't change your view just a little?

The child was NOT left unsupervised WITH THE DOG.

The parent took what they thought would be HEAVY PRECAUTIONS - using a washing machine and a marble slab to block a door.

then more:

"It's a horrible, horrible deal," (Sgt. Felipe) Rivera said. "This woman loved the child. She didn't purposely endanger this child. But a child is dead. Parents have to put the child first, animals later. You have to maintain the child's safety."

Vaughn, whose husband was at work, immediately called for help. When first-responders arrived at the home in the 5900 block of Caruso Forest, Vaughn was outside, her baby in her arms.

The baby was taken by ambulance to an area hospital. Vaughn trailed behind in a patrol car, vomiting, the sergeant said.

"She was in shock," Rivera said.

So let's have a moment for this unfortunate family, who lost a child just before the holiday, instead of clucking our tongues and congratulating ourselves for being so much more civilized and intelligent.

[Bettie]

66. I'm a mom and I don't agree with you.

Ok, if the dogs are so aggressive that she even thought that she needed to use anything more than a closed (and maybe locked) door to keep them out, then they should have been secured in a kennel.

I have two dogs, both of whom have been great with my kids were never, ever left alone with my baby. When I am at my mother's home with her many dogs (all rescued and fosters), I keep my now-two year old in sight at all times, usually within arm's length because dogs can be dangerous to small children even if they don't mean to do harm.

I feel terrible for the mother. My DH and I lost our first child at birth, I do know her pain, personally.

However, this is a tragedy that didn't need to happen.

At the end of the story, it says that the fate of the dogs is in the family's hands. What do you want to bet the dogs will all be in the backyard again before the baby's funeral.

NINE Rottweilers is a LOT of big dogs. Makes me wonder if they are doing a breeding operation or something.

[Dappleganger]

98. If the dogs are that agressive, get rid of them!

Jesus, some people haven't a clue! The woman had 9 rotties, how could she pay proper attention to her baby if it was constantly divided between several who were known to be hostile to her BABY.

I love dogs but my human babies are #1!

[northernlights]

59. neglect is abuse. she left 3 month old ALONE in another room

with multiple dogs, while bathing one dog.

I love dogs. I have a large lab-cross who wouldn't deliberately hurt a fly. But I would NEVER leave a baby or toddler alone with him, because he's so big he could accidently hurt them while loving on them.

They have 9 large dogs. One was kept outside alone (:wtf: that will just increase any anti-social tendencies/lack of socialisation). That means 8 kept inside the house. She was bathing 1.

She left a 3 month old alone with 7 large dogs. That is neglect. The 3 month old should have been with her bathing the dog. Or she should have simply not bathed the dog until husband or somebody was home to watch over the 3 month old.

Stupid people. Stupid.

I'm surprised (and relieved) the state isn't killing all the dogs due to their stupid owners. I'm also surprised the state is leaving the fate of the dogs up to their stupid owners.

[demwing]

63. Not true

"she left 3 month old ALONE in another room with multiple dogs, while bathing one dog."

The dogs were outside, the passage in blocked by a washing mashine and a marble slab that the mother moved in front of the door.

[northernlights]

70. per the article "The dog...gained access to the house through a back door that hadn't been secured."

Perhaps you could provide a link to an article disputing the description in the linked article. Because from what I read, the door was not secured, the infant was in another room and she had 1 dog with her. That leaves 1 dog outside that gained access through the unsecured door and 7 dogs unaccounted for.

[demwing]

75. Per the Houston Chronicle, the door was blocked by an appliance and a heavy slab of marble

That's a barricade.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7348291.html

[northernlights]

84. so there are conflicting stories, so the jury is out...but frankly there is something fishy

a dog moved a washing machine and a heavy slab of marble -- and she didn't hear that from the next room?

That sounds like a very motivated dog. And she doesn't know which one did it, even though they say just one made its way (silently) through the barricade and barked after doing the deed?

And they're keeping an intact male, and breeding crosses...

[demwing]

93. Clearly there's a lot wrong here

but the rush to judge this family as stupid and criminal reminds me of the pack behavior of the dangerous dogs that this thread warns about.

[northernlights]

95. I don't see a rush to judgement. simple common sense. 9 rottweilers, unattended toddler. preventable

disaster.

What she did *was* stupid. And I didn't call her criminal, I called her neglectful. Which she was.

But you do seem to have some ax to grind here, given the sheer volume of your posts, not to mention your suggesting to some people that they try reading the article, when it was clear from your first response to me that *you* had not read the linked article. :shrug:

[beam me up scottie]

87. A properly latched door with a bolt wouldn't need to be barricaded.

And if she was too incompetent and stupid to put the child in an interior room with doors that closed properly, she should never have let that baby out of her sight.

Not for one minute.

[demwing]

92. Ok. There's no talking to some people

own your judgmental mentality. It's all yours.

[beam me up scottie]

97. I agree.Some people actually think keeping nine 150+lb dogs and an infant together is good parenting

When it so obviously wasn't.

[GreenPartyVoter]

99. She did leave it in a swing, which is not recommended.

[blondeatlast]

31. Yup. nt

[LiberalLoner]

2. k&r

[DrDan]

3. sick

[LiberalLoner]

5. Sorry, I have a very dark and cynical sense of humor. Came from all the abuse I lived through. n/t

[DrDan]

7. thanks for the edit

[Occulus]

8. Never mind. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

9. It occurs to me maybe the family let that happen on purpose. You know, there are babies tortured

and killed every day in the U.S. It wouldn't shock me at all to learn that this happened on purpose.

[demwing]

13. Why the hell would you even consider such a thing?

This is a tragedy for the family.

[LiberalLoner]

16. Maybe because I was raised in a family that raped and tortured me for fun?

Maybe I have a whole lot of suspicion when it comes to parents whose children turn up dead.

Not all parents are angels sent from heaven.

[LiberalLoner]

18. And why would anyone with a new baby, have so many dangerous dogs that can have

access unsupervised to that baby? Something doesn't add up.

[demwing]

23. Maybe you just didn't read the story, and responded to the subject line

la la la la

[demwing]

24. Are all dogs dangerous?

How would you know the dogs were dangerous, if there were never any previous warnings?

[TexasObserver]

29. Four Rotts and Five Rott crosses weighing over 100 lbs each are.

Nine large dogs, nine territorial dogs, all living in a backyard.

They're pack animals living in a pack.

The new baby is a threat to the pack pecking order.

At least one Houston story has stated that the owners said two of the dogs had shown hostility to the new baby. One of them got into the house and killed the baby while the mother was bathing the "daddy" Rott for this family with big dogs and small minds.

[safeinOhio]

32. When ever I see a "got in" or "out"

that was not suppose to, it only proves that the dog was smarter than the owner.

[TexasObserver]

78. Unfortunately, stupid dog owners often have that problem.

Anyone can own a dog, and many dog owners are seriously incompetent to raise a dog.

As long as the dog is not large, the only suffering is that of the dog and the people who have to put up with a poorly behaving dog and its owner. But when the dog is big, when the dog can inflict deadly bites far too easily, it's a big problem for everyone.

[adigal]

45. All dogs are dangerous when kids are around

and I love dogs. Kids are not trustworthy, and babies are vulnerable, they are the weakest members of the pack. Packs kill the weak - not their fault. Don't leave them alone together, ever!!!

[TorchTheWitch]

51. all dogs have the potential to be dangerous, yes

Dogs are dogs and will behave like dogs. Thankfully, dogs can also be trained to accept your authority but even then there can be situations where your authority isn't going to matter, and that's most likely to occur when you aren't there. Any dog has the ability to harm and may do so in certain circumstances. The bigger the dog, the more potentially harmful they can be. NO dog should ever be able to get to a baby unsupervised, EVER. Doesn't matter if the dog has never shown any aggression toward anything before... and most people don't even know how to recognize when a dog is showing subtle signs of aggression in the first place. A new baby in the household is an interloper to ANY dog until they have accepted the new addition into their pack and understand that the new addition has a pack ranking higher than themselves. Even with dogs who have accepted the new addition and accepted their lower ranking than the new addition harm can occur to the baby by the dog not because of any aggression but because of play or even attempted protection of the new addition.

No dog regardless of their size, temperment or training should ever ever ever have unsupervised access to a baby. PERIOD.

[corpseratemedia]

28. sorry that you had such a horrible childhood

that is terrible and i can see how it alters one's perspective

[LiberalLoner]

33. Thank you. Yeah, vets coming back hear a gunshot in every backfiring vehicle, and I see

abuse in every family, whether it is there or not, to be honest.

And I vowed never to have children. Because I wanted nothing to do with perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

And the anger never goes away. They say therapy makes it go away - nope. Therapy is just what they send you to to make you shut up about the abuse and make you fake your way into being "normal" whatever that may be.

[corpseratemedia]

56. Im so sorry.. I wish it could be taken out and away...

*your perspective will always be important,* please keep that in mind (((hug)))

[Flubadubya]

71. My heart goes out to you...

I hope somehow you have found (or will find) that there are loving, gentle people in the world and who will share that with you. I know the hurt can never go away, but it can be sublimated with love. I know... I have "adopted" a person with a similar background to yours and who is now actually quite happy.

Don't forget... things can get better. Wish for it! :hug:

[renate]

48. ...

I'm so sorry... there just aren't words. I wish it were possible to go back in time and protect that little you and give you a million hugs.

[lamp_shade]

6. +1

[HillbillyBob]

4. and gay folks are not responsbile enough to raise kids

nt

[bigwillq]

14. ....

:thumbsup:

[racaulk]

46. Exactly!

Thank you for saying it. :thumbsup:

[lonestarnot]

10. Horrible!

[KurtNYC]

17. How can they not know which one did it??

"The infant's father believes he knows which dog killed the his baby"

Hmmmm.. how about the one with baby blood on its mouth ? They were in another room of the home when it occurred. Heard it and came in.

Seems like there might be another reason they took all 9.

[Barack_America]

58. Simple answer, because it was an unsupervised attack.

As almost all of these tragedies are.

[Myrina]

25. 9 ROTTS in one house? Seriously??

I have 4 dogs in my house at present: 1 beagle, 1 aussie & 2 labs (1 is a foster dog) and that's too damn many!
I love them to death but they're always underfoot & get on my nerves sometimes!!
There's no way in hell NINE DOGS of that (or any) size is manageable, or allowable by any city's standards.

:wtf:

[XemaSab]

35. I have three dogs and they're a handful

I love them all, but if I had a baby or a child in the house, I would definitely downsize to two, and I might take it down to none. (Sorry, Maddy, I love you but I don't trust you. :P )

[Pisces]

39. I have a golden retriever and I would still watch him like a hawk. He can be

[Still a Democrat]

30. Dangerous breeds need to be prevented from breeding as much as possible

No easy answer, but reducing the population of some types of dogs would be a good thing.

[TexasObserver]

34. The demand for such dogs far exceeds the responsible owners.

That's the problem. The very people who should not own a large, aggressive dog are some of the ones who tend to want such dogs. Of course, not all large dog owners are compelled by a desire to have large, aggressive dogs, but many large dog owners are not emotionally fit to have such an animal. You can see them out at any public area where dogs are present, particularly beaches, lakes, and parks.

The dog is a physical specimen its owner will never be, and the vicarious living through the dog starts there.

Bad dog owners make for bad dogs.

[LiberalLoner]

36. Absolutely right. n/t +1

[elehhhhna]

42. goes for dogs AND people

[Lucian]

79. That's the most idiotic thing I've ever read here.

It's not the breed of dog that's the problem. In this particular story, it's the idiotic parents who are at fault. They failed to keep the dogs contained, and they owned NINE of them when they had infants around. Not a smart thing. The parents should lose custody of any other kids they may have for being stupid.

[kimi]

37. This is too horrible

Breaks my heart.

And any parent who loses a child - for whatever reason - deserves sympathy. What's the matter with some of y'all, you don't see that??

However. This many dogs, apparently unsupervised. It was a tragedy waiting to happen.

In the end, we parents have to determine what's most important to us. I'd bet that the majority of us would have no hesitation in saying that our kids take top priority. I love my pets dearly, and the only pitt bulls and Rotties that I've known have been wonderful dogs who I adore.

This family seems to have had issues. Heartbreaking. All the way around.

[aikoaiko]

38. Very sad, but it can happen with any breed of dog and it takes only one.

Sad story.

[Nikia]

40. The first rule of babies and dogs is to not leave them unsupervised together

Obviously large dogs can do more damage, more quickly. Multiple large dogs could be a diaster even when the parents are right there. Our elderly dog died recently and we have talked about getting another dog. Since we have a two year old and want to have another baby in the near future, one of my criteria is that it must be a dog that I could easily physically restrain from my child if necessary. If we had a pair, they'd definitely have to be a smaller breed. Maybe this is unfair, but you have to be better safe than sorry.

[Javaman]

43. There is so much wrong here...

but given the fact that these people are obviously fucking stupid...

Oh forget it, even I won't go there.

The poor kid.

[Barack_America]

54. Yep. That's pretty much it.

It seems pointless to even discuss the numerous ways this could have been avoided. Bad things happen to everyone, but especially to stupid people and unfortunately to innocent ones too.

[adigal]

44. I do dog rescue, and more than two dogs is a pack

I don't leave dogs alone with each other unless they know each other very well. Two is fine, three is a pack, two can gang up on the third. When I had two big dogs and my babies, I never left them alone, even in the room when I ran out for a second, unless my babies were in a playpen type of enclosure. Never trust any dog with any child - the kid can do something stupid and gets bitten, and the dog gets killed. NO dog is trustworthy - the only dog that ever bit my kids was a Golden Retriever, and I have had pits and rotties in the rescue. So don't think your Golden or Lab can't bite your child.

Never trust kids and dogs - dogs are animals. They are pack animals and the new baby is a weak member of the pack, an intruder.

[TBF]

52. Completely agree - I have rescued Labs and have had the same experience -

our child was maybe 2 or 3 and we were nearby (same room) and the family lab nipped at her when she got to close to the dog while he had a bone. Out of the blue - had never happened previously. You have to be alert anytime, but especially not leave children alone with dogs. You just never know.

[XemaSab]

86. I got bit by a chihuahua when I was 2

The little shit latched onto me and wouldn't let go.

Even little dogs can be vicious towards babies.

[felix_numinous]

47. Dogs become a different entity in a pack

even when they are peaceful as individuals. How sad this is.

[smirkymonkey]

72. Kind of like frat boys....

very strange.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

49. Four additional representatives

That is all.

[burning rain]

50. A baby & 9 Rottweilers. What could possibly go wrong there?

These parents are too negligent for me to have any sympathy for them. Sorry they didn't get arrested before their tears dried. Poor damn baby, being born to such thoughtless vermin.

[revolution breeze]

61. No freaking excuse.

As a parent, you make sure your baby is SAFE and SECURE. An unsecure back door is your excuse? You have a dog that your normally keep outside yet you allow don't make sure that dog cannot get to the baby? I am so sick and angered by this! My daughter has a 3 month old and as soon as her fiancee's pit growled at my granddaughter, he was rehomed, despite the fact he had been a family pet for 6 years and never bitten anyone.

[demwing]

64. The back door was not "unsecured"

the way was blocked by a washing machine that was moved in front of the door, along with a marble slab. Obviously and horribly not enough, but not "unsecured."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7348291.html

[revolution breeze]

67. From the original article:

"The dog apparently gained access to the house through a back door that hadn't been secured." Even if it was blockaded with a washing machine and a slab of marble, it was unsecure. Hell, throw in the sofa and a couple of chairs. It is still unsecure!

[demwing]

77. Per the Houston Chronicle, the door was blocked by an appliance and a heavy slab of marble

That's a barricade.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/734829...

[revolution breeze]

106. What about just having a door that could lock? n/t

[Barack_America]

68. Is a house with that many powerful dogs a safe home for an infant?

If the dogs were able to push aside a washing machine and marble to gain access to the infant, they would easily be able to push aside the mother to do the same.

I feel sorry for the parents that they decided to bring an infant into an unsafe living environment and suffered the worst possible result, but that does not negate the fact that they did and that the infant is now dead.

[revolution breeze]

69. A washing machine and a slab of marble

That indicates to me that the mother knew there was a potential risk to her infant. Damn, it just breaks my heart thinking about this happening to my granddaughter who is that age. She would have no way of defendin herself or even trying to get away. And I know the dog is doing what is instinctive, but this should never have been allowed to happen.

[LisaL]

102. I am curious as to why washing machine and a slab of marble

were needed? Didn't the door have a lock?

[Blue_Tires]

73. The mere fact that the dog got in is the definition of "unsecured"

unless for argument's sake the dog chewed through the door or physically knocked it off its hinges...

Did it have a bolt lock? Was the door wooden? Was it a raggedy screen door? Did the woman always have to slide a washing machine and marble block to "secure" the door, or is that just after-the-fact bullshit to mitigate her negligence?

And I'm not even going to begin on the apparent lack of obedience training...

[beam me up scottie]

90. That's the equivalent of saying "I only left her in the car for a few minutes while I..."

A properly latched wooden door with a bolt would have been enough to keep the dogs out.

These parents were incompetent and negligent.

Criminally so.

They shouldn't be allowed to have dogs or kids.

[demwing]

91. No, it isn't the same at all, and the police do not think they were criminally negligent

and thank god you don't get to decide who has kids and who doesn't

[beam me up scottie]

96. Oh, bullshit. If her dogs had killed someone else's baby she'd have been prosecuted.

Since it was her own kid they probably think she's suffered enough.

[RegieRocker]

74. It is obvious that pit bulls and rottweilers are a dangerous breed

and that they should be outlawed. They are a menace.

[flvegan]

85. (facepalm)

[BeachBaby]

88. Self-delete.

[BeachBaby]

89. Outlawed? Seriously?

Then - by your metric - humanity should be outlawed.

[RegieRocker]

105. You act as though you are concerned about the baby

but I am tired and more than fed up of hearing about these dogs killing children. Hunting them down and killing kids. Ripping their throats out. They might as well be lions. The children are dead. End of debate.

[Lucian]

80. I see this is a "let's kill all rottweilers and pitbulls" thread.

:eyes:

If anyone with a little reading comprehension can see, the idiotic parents are at fault for this. They failed to keep the dogs contained, they owned NINE of those dogs when they had an infant around, and they failed to keep the house properly secure. They're at fault, not the dogs.

[HuckleB]

82. Say what?

Most of the posts appear to be focused on the parents.

Your response seems very much out of place.

[JI7]

103. The parents should be arrested , this is THEIR fault