Maine LD 216--Resolve, To Prohibit Smokers from Receiving MaineCare (Medicaid) Benefits

[Maine_Nurse]

"That the Department of Health and Human Services shall amend its rules governing the MaineCare program to provide that a person who smokes is not eligible to receive benefits under the program and that, in order to be eligible to receive benefits under the program, a person must attest to the fact that the person does not smoke."

Discuss.

[Occulus]

1. Oh FUCK *THAT* noise

I so hope the antismokers try to defend this one

[FreakinDJ]

6. Typical RATpubliCON "Divide and Conquer" politics

next will be Fat People

then people with Handicaps

then people born with disabilities

then Democrats

[RagAss]

7. I don't know...seems every Tea Bagger I know of is a smoker.

[FreakinDJ]

10. TeaBaggers were ALL over the issue during HCR debates

fanning out all across talk radio proclaiming "Obesity would break the Healthcare system"

[shimmergal]

19. That's strange, because

every video shot I've seen of a Teabaggers gathering shows most of them are at least middle-aged and overweight.

Not that I'm demonizing them for being overweight, but it does seem like more have extra poundage than a random sample of Americans would.

[CarolT]

22. Then why do the Democrats do the same things?

Then why do the Democrats do the same things, only worse? Why does the same corrupt gang remain power at HHS and the CDC, decade after decade, no matter who is elected? And what do you meam, "next will be fat people?" Are you even aware of what Mrs. Obama is doing?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Le Taz Hot]

3. The availability of medical care

should be unconditional. Anything else, you're going down a slippery slope with no end.

[Buzz Clik]

4. Bad idea. Taxing the hell out of cigarettes is fine, but put the revenues in the health care system.

Deny coverage? bullshit

[CarolT]

21. How about protecting our Constitutional rights?

How about use some of those hundreds of billions of dollars they've stolen to protect smokers' Constitutional rights to the equal protection of the laws, which have been systematically violated by the anti-smokers' scientific fraud?

[Buzz Clik]

24. This is fun. One exaggeration after another. Let's start:

Hundreds of billions? Care to back that one up with some documentation? You're suggesting that the amount of money "stolen" from smokers exceeds the GNP of dozens of countries.

Constitutional rights? What rights have been violated? Care to explain?

Anti-smoker scientific fraud? This should be real good one: do tell.

[walldude]

29. .

deleted

[DeadEyeDyck]

5. got mixed feelings about this one

people who take high risks should pay more.

I ride a sport bike and pay more in life insurance. It is my choice, as is smoking.

[crim son]

8. I feel the same way.

If I pay higher premiums because I suffer from clinical depression and rheumatoid arthritis, both beyond my control, then it makes sense that a smoker might have to pay more too. On the other hand, being a smoker isn't a guarantee that you will cost the insurance company more... there might have to be other factors considered.

All of this is bullshit, of course. We should all be fully covered under single payer, period.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Also Shorter Time In Hospitals...

Someone who is diagnosed with Lung cancer is more likely to die younger and in a short period of time thus their care and expenses are not as much as someone who suffers from a long-term illness such as Parkisons or Altzheimers and requires years of expensive care. There are statistics that show that smokers will also put off getting medical check-ups so that when something is detected it is at an advanced state and again, their care is short as is the expense.

I also have mixed feelings about a law like this as those who are excluded aren't going to just go away or stop smoking...and in some cases the damage has already been done. So instead of getting treatment, they will become "deadbeats" who will eventually end up in a hospital and the bill passed along to the rest of us through yet higher prices. So do you cut them off now and have to pay later?

High risk behavior should be charged higher rates...the problem is the definition of what those risks are. However that behavior should not be a reason to be excluded from any health care. It serves no good purpose...

[CarolT]

23. Why should they get away with that?

Why should they get away with charging more for high-risk behavior? The insurance companies don't pay for peoples' old-age costs such as Social Security and Medicaid. These are far higher than health costs, and those they dump on the taxpayers. How about if the government regulates the insurance companies with the peoples' rights in mind, for a change?

[eShirl]

14. this isn't about paying more for coverage, this is denying coverage

[PSPS]

17. No, that's not how health insurance works.

You price coverage based on the risk of the pool, not the individual. Health insurance is pooled risk. Once you start charging different rates (or denying coverage) on the individual level, you end up with what we now have -- coverage only for those least likely to ever need medical care with the rest left without coverage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. Smoking doesn't appreciably increase lifetime health costs.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506

If it encourages people to quit, I'm for it. Unfortunately it's apparent that even ridiculously high cigarette taxes won't break the addiction.

[CrispyQ]

9. I wonder if the tobacco companies will get in on this fight?

It's going to get interesting when we reach the point where the big corporations start fighting with each other. Until now, everything has been pretty cushy for all of them. But as resources dwindle & markets get smaller, what will they do?

[Sinistrous]

11. Why don't they just shoot us.

Smokers have been made into such odious pariahs, the anti smoking zealots might just as well start exterminating us.

[eShirl]

12. Wouldn't the impact on schizophrenic people be devastating?

[Occulus]

15. Absolutely.

But rabis antismokers don't care if you can't do what you like in your own home, get fired for doing it, or get denied medical assistance such as in the OP. The only thing they care about is the fact that you can't smoke, period.

I just wish they'd get it over with and make tobacco illegal, full stop. We all know that's what they really want, and the ensuing rage and glorious smackdown would be amusing to watch.

[bbgrunt]

16. first they came for the smokers, then the drinkers, then the useless eaters.

[CarolT]

20. The government lies about smoking costs

The anti-smokers' phony smoking cost claims, such as the CDC's SAMMEC computer program that they spread around the world like a disease, pretend that costs paid by smokers themselves were paid by non-smokers, that diseases caused by infection were caused by smoking, and that non-smokers' costs don't exist at all. Here's a real study that looks at both sides' costs. Table 1 gives the bottom line: At age 20, smokers' lifetime costs will total 220k Euros, obese peoples' costs will total 250k Euros, and the "Healthy Living" will cost 281k Euros.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029

The Centers for Disease Ccontrol has been its fraudulent smoking cost propaganda since 1986. Year after year, and decade after decade, they tell the same lies, no matter who is in power, and are never held accountable.

[Buzz Clik]

25. You're suggesting that the cost of not smoking is greater than the cost of smoking?

Uh. Ok.

Do you smoke?

[Gormy Cuss]

30. The lifetime costs are lower for smokers because of shorter lifetimes

First paragraph of the "Methods and Findings" section at your link:

Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers.

[mainer]

26. So now we need smoking spies to out patients?

Who's going to do the reporting?

What if the smoker gets hit by a car?

[WinkyDink]

27. Is smoking a legal activity, or is it not? Discuss. Do states benefit from cigarette taxes? Discuss.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. Discuss? Disgust is more like it.

About 1 in 6 Mainers smoke. Among low income communities I'd bet the rate is much higher but I can't find a stat to back that up so let's just assume that the rate among MaineCare recipients is the same as the state. The new lobbyist headed DHHS would immediately shave the caseload by one sixth and thereby save something close to that on the Medicaid budget.

Those smoking and now uninsured people will clog emergency rooms in hospitals around the state for their minor care. Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.