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The Democratic leaders are not even pretending to defend Social Security.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 09:25 PM
Original message
The Democratic leaders are not even pretending to defend Social Security.
That program has been a mainstay in our country since 1935...they are not even bothering to defend it. Social Security is being trashed by the right wing, and the Democrats are not standing up for it.

In my mind that means they probably are fully agreeing to cut the benefits. We just don't know how far. If they don't plan on that, then they are doing some lousy messaging...and people are getting angry.

The Democratic leaders are not even bothering to defend public school teachers. In fact under this administration teachers have been ridiculed and treated with scorn more than ever before. No one in the leadership is coming out to defend public education and to offer kind words for teachers.

I have been talking to teachers who are still working in the system, more than I have in ages. Their fear and unease is palpable, and it makes me uncomfortable. They can not share their feelings openly for fear of reprisal from principals.

I talked to an assistant principal this week, well-liked, respected. Before I retired I taught with him. I approached education cautiously because he is now in an administrative position. I know they have to be careful. I should not have worried at all. He said the hardest thing was having to keep his mouth shut about the harm being done by Race to the Top. He should know. His school is one with minorities and migrant workers, but last I heard the community spirit was great there. I assume it still is.

He said those in the system now are stunned beyond belief at what is going on. They know Arne Duncan's name, and even in this very red, very fundamentalist area....they despise what he is doing. Trust me, teachers and school administrators seldom know or worry about who is Secretary of Education. I know that from experience. It usually does not touch their lives, they do their best job no matter what. Many know Arne I hear. And they despise him.

But this assistant principal must worry in silence at what is probably coming for his school and others like it. It's hard for them to compete with the magnet and charter schools that do not have to keep underperforming students. Eventually if Arne's plans continue, it will cause their school to be "turned around" into a charter most likely. He says it is hard to keep his mouth shut, but he must.

I said I try to speak for teachers anonymously because they can't do it themselves.

The Democrats caved on the tax cuts for the highest income folks, saying it is because they needed that 13 months of unemployment. Agreed, that is needed desperately. But we gave them a majority so they would not have to expand the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. They did it anyway.

In fact the president said if we complained we would appear "sanctimonious" and seem to demand "purity" God, I hate those words.

The Democrats are catering to the religious right on positions of women's rights. They are more and more taking the position of allowing religion and public schools to blend. This quote from the WSJ put it in clear perspective recently.

5. Separation of church and state? We found a loophole.

Charter schools are public schools, supported by public tax dollars. But among the thousands of charters nationwide are schools run by Christian organizations as well as Hebrew and Arabic language academies that blur the line between church and state. “What would not be tolerated in a regular public school seems to be tolerated when it’s a charter school,” says Diane Ravitch, a professor of education at New York University and the author of “The Death and Life of the Great American School System.” Even if these schools aren’t explicitly teaching religion, “it’s potentially segregation by religious preference,” Bulkley says.


The president took another step toward the religious right when he signed an executive order severely limiting the use of public funds to pay for abortions.

From the White House website:

Executive Order -- Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act's Consistency with Longstanding Restrictions on the Use of Federal Funds for Abortion...Section 1

Section. 1. Policy. Following the recent enactment of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (the "Act"), it is necessary to establish an adequate enforcement mechanism to ensure that Federal funds are not used for abortion services (except in cases of rape or incest, or when the life of the woman would be endangered), consistent with a longstanding Federal statutory restriction that is commonly known as the Hyde Amendment. The purpose of this order is to establish a comprehensive, Government-wide set of policies and procedures to achieve this goal and to make certain that all relevant actors -- Federal officials, State officials (including insurance regulators) and health care providers -- are aware of their responsibilities, new and old.


The man who trained Obama's campaign staff on organizing had words recently about how OFA was being used.

Similarly, Marshall Ganz, the famed labor organizer and Harvard lecturer who trained Obama staff on organizing, showed his independent streak last month, when he critcized his former colleagues for putting OFA "to sleep," instead of mobilizing meaningful reform. "The president demobilized the widest, deepest and most effective grass-roots organization ever built to support a Democratic president," he wrote in the LA Times.
Former Aide criticizes Obama


Worst of all, the part that hurts the most....is that they are not paying any attention to those who want them to stand up against the extremist group of Republicans who are hurting our country.

They are simply ignoring us.

That hurts.

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. The White House, Senate, House, etc. are a bit busy right now .....
after X-mas, after New Years, and after Congress resumes January 5th - there will be plenty of time for the dems to come out and kick butt.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year :)

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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I for one am tired of the dems kicking my butt.
Bah Humbug
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I love your sense of humor
That was hilarious. Merry Chrissmas.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. err...
We lost the house. Remember. We sort of had our chance at kicking butt for the last two years, but the blue dogs spoiled it for us. Evan Bayh is probably the most to blame of any man for the fix we are currently in.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
43. I'm proud to say that I might hold the record on DU for the most
number of posts critical of Evan Bayh. If there ever was a Republican dressed in a Democratic suit it was him. I remember during the G.Bush regime, he would step up and defend Bush right when Bush needed to have his ass put in jail.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
71. Good!
Good to know you. I've never been a cheerleader for the administration but I do hate it when people don't give Bayh the credit he deserves for screwing us all over. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees what a shmuck Bayh has been.

What I find odd is that there is a contingent of the Obama pom-pom squad that never squeaks up when I defend him and point out that Bayh is the real reason we have been screwed so badly. It is almost as though they are actually agaisnt progressive policy and want to make the whole discussion about personality and figureheads.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. LOL - care to put a year on there? nt
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
56. You mean that new dem...uh, Republican House? (n/t)
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. Oh, yeah, right....
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. If a Democrat Stands Up For Something and the MSM Fails to Report It, Does That Make a Sound?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Is there anyone rich and caring enough to create an Antifox Network? nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
52. Which is exactly why we need to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. Unfortunately, DUers
and the rest of America need someone on the teevee to endorse the idea before they even seriously contemplate it, and that will never happen. The MSM tells America what the issues are, and America obeys.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. Maybe some nice progressive country will invade us and liberate us.
Or maybe not.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. forget the MSM, if a democrat stands up for something and other dems ignore him/her . . .
I think I'm spending too much time on DU and DU spends too much time trashing dems.

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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. My oldest son will graduate with an Elementary Education Major in the spring.
He is trying to educate his fellow education classmates about these issues but sadly most of them are either uninterested or unaware of how it will effect them.

Most of them have no clue about how Charter schools will effect them and how important teachers unions are.

He said it is suprising how many of the teachers he has interacted with that don't like the union.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That is because no political party is standing up for unions now.
That is why. Both parties badmouth teachers and unions. That is why people believe what they do.

Our party either approves of union bashing or their messaging is lousy.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. What Messaging? We Have a Media That Believes that Democrats Should be Not Seen and Not Heard
Nobody will see or hear our "messaging" unless they happen to come to a Democratic or Democratic-leaning website.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Democrats also believe that they should be seen and not heard....!!!
That's beeing going on for two decades now ---

This is collusion - across the board collusion.

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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
79. Democrats Have Been Trying to Survive the Repiglickin Onslaught
To call it "collusion" is absurd. No Democrat is colluding with the Republicans to lose his own seat.
They are lurching further and further to the right to try to keep their seats, and with every loss this process accelerates.

The Republicans are moving to the right even faster, and are now openly fascist. The MSM is cheering them on all the way.

The Democrats are in survival mode.


We continue to underestimate the power of the media. WE get our information from the net, but there are still a lot of
people who get it from the Tee Vee, and ALL of those people vote for the Repigs if they vote at all.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #79
99. Did you happen to notice that Obama was elected in a landslide?
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 09:29 PM by defendandprotect
That it was W who had a squeaker -- and actually lost in 2000 -- but governed as

though he had a mandate?

You don't survive a "Repug corporate onslaught" by having the Dem Party sell itself to

the same corporations/elites--!


Back room deals with Republicans are collusion ---

and perhaps you don't know that the Blue Dogs used to caucus with the Repugs?

2008, like 2006, were monster liberal/progressive wins --


They are lurching further and further to the right to try to keep their seats, and with every loss this process accelerates.


If you understand the elections -- i.e., liberal/progressive wins -- why would anyone be moving

to the right? Especially since, as you can see from the 2010 election, every time Obama moves

further to the right, he loses more liberal/progressive votes.

28 million expected voters stayed home in 2010 because of Obama's corporate decision making --

especially his back room deals with Big Pharma and private Health Care industry -- to assure them

there would be no Medicare "negotiation" on drug prices -- and no single payer or public option.

Obama has now followed with yet another back room deal with GOP on tax cuts for wealthy.

That's not transparency, let me assure you!

76% and more of Americans wanted single-payer/government run health care --



The Democrats are in survival mode.

Recall that post-2008, GOP was in collapse ... what happened?



We continue to underestimate the power of the media. WE get our information from the net, but there are still a lot of
people who get it from the Tee Vee, and ALL of those people vote for the Repigs if they vote at all.


Who voted for the Repugs in 2008?

No one --


We've had Operation Mockingbird since the 1960's/1970's - CIA infiltration of our "free press" --

Pentagon players under contract to major networks. Total corporate control of our press.

And many of us here have understood that for decades.







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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #99
116. I Don't Belong to an Organized Party, I am a Democrat
The Democrats are in survival mode.


Recall that post-2008, GOP was in collapse ... what happened?


Citizen's United happened. The Bush Court. The gift that keeps on giving.
Unlimited (and unaccountable) corporate and even foreign money for the Repiggies. Billions of dollars.


We continue to underestimate the power of the media. WE get our information from the net, but there are still a lot of
people who get it from the Tee Vee, and ALL of those people vote for the Repigs if they vote at all.


Who voted for the Repugs in 2008?

No one


The Repigs ran an doddering candidate whose senility was obvious to television viewers.

the Blue Dogs used to caucus with the Repugs?


That's the point I was trying to make. We only have a majority on paper. The Repiggies have had a working majority all along.
That doesn't mean that "The Democrats Have Sold Us Out!". It means that they don't have any real power.
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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. Republican agenda fits nicely into a Fascist Govt. like the US
That is the reason for all republican coverage all the time on US MSM...whether democrats are in office or out. It makes no difference. I think the coup began in earnest in 2000 with the SC giving w the election.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #53
100. The coup began immediately after the Revolution ....
came out into the open in 1963 -- with the assassination of JFK which also

took our people's government with it --

but much had gone on before in the way of eliminating liberals/progressives

by violence and other deceptions like the McCarthy Era.

2000 was simply another brazen steal -- it's the only way the right wing can

rise -- political violence - stolen elections -- and lies.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. His classmates' parents likely are not union members, so they do not see the benefits as "theirs."
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent post, as usual, madfloridian.
I hope you've seen my latest essay in which I try to explain what we're seeing from both Obama and the Democratic Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=49305&mesg_id=49305

-Laelth
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
72. Thanks for the link .
I had missed that, and I just read it. Nice post. Too late to rec.

:hi:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Thanks for the kind words. n/t
:toast:

-Laelth
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
78. The following is from your blog
In reality, if Obama appears and does follow through with gutting Social Security, that will be the final nail in his political coffin. Most people in the U.S. want their SS as is or improved in some fashion, not done away with in any fashion. The Republican hopeful for the President's office will say what-ever about restoring SS to some state of being and will get a vote of confidence from the media as to their intention. As for Obama, he will have the distension of becoming the first Black President of the United States (no small feat in itself) and will hang his hat on that.

<snip>
One thing is certain, though. If Obama determines that the American political caste wants to “reform” Social Security, Obama will do his level best to make it happen, and he will not lose any sleep worrying about how his actions will hurt the American people. Oh, he’ll blame the Republicans for “making” him gut the most popular social program in American history, but he will do it, all the same. The groupthink of America’s political caste will, once again, become the law of the land, no matter what the people think, and Obama will celebrate his “victory.” He’ll also be patting himself on the back for his “winning” strategy. Kissing the collective derriere of the entire American political caste may even get him re-elected.
<end of snip>

The link for the above snip: http://laelth.blogspot.com/
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OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not true.
See here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/LindaTSanchez

Or here:

http://doggett.house.gov/

And also look out for a Mazie Hirono letter being released tomorrow.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's two.
Who is speaking up for teachers? For women's right to choose?
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OrwellwasRight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Doggett and Sanchez and Hirono and G. Miller and
and the nearly 90 members of the Progressive Caucus. Look, I'm not saying they are winning the debates, but let's not insult them by saying they are not standing up--they are.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. an excellent post, thank you
"Democratic leaders are not even pretending to defend Social Security"
I think the Congress with exception to the blue dogs are trying to stand up for Democratic values. They are in conflict with a WH, who seems not to not take them seriously.

As far as what is happening to the schools and our teachers is a travesty. One of the most abused occupations in the country. The decades of a right wing smear campaign...we should be investing in our public education not financing charter schools.

Watching Rachel tonight, she had on Mrs Greenspan and someone else for from the bush adm. The talk was about O achievements and how he will now attract more Independents.
If this is his s strategy, which I believe it is. I don't know if you will see the Ind. organizing,knocking on doors, and busting their humps like the liberals did.

They say he's going to bring up cuts to SS in the State of the Union...it scares the heck out of me.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm looking forward to hearing that speech; I've anticipated his mentioning
his stance on Social Security/Medicare, but I had more faith in his rejecting plans for cuts until now. A Democratic president weakening Social Security is something I could never have imagined.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
57. I'll bet he refers to Social Security by the republican mem; "entitlement"!
By using it as a bargaining chip, HE ALREADY HAS weakened Social Security...
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. If he did, he would be crossing a major line.
He'd just as well have his suit outlined with neon lights, flashing, "I'm a Republican!"
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. Agreed
Unfortunately the party has gave undue to the Blue Dogs last time around. Despite the progressive caucus being bigger they were given almost no weight in the house or senate.

Now, with the Blue dogs being less present it is possible that we will reach actual compromises instead of a compromise on a pre-compromised position decided upon by Evan Bayh (may he rot in obscurity).
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. Reagan's election was the opening act in a war on the middle class.
"Free trade" is freedom to create a class system similar to those in Saudi Arabia, India and China. That's all it is.

They are attacking Social Security first. They will destroy that and with it the American dream of a secure and independent retirement in dignity. Then they will move on to the mortgage interest deduction which deal a final blow to the American dream of homeownership. And then, they will strike the final blow to public education. Charter schools are just the first step in that.

Once they finish, our cities will look like Calcutta. Our people will be hungry and angry but too weak and subservient to do anything about it.

The Teabaggers are actually middle class fools who do not understand that they are the target, that they will be the losers in the war against the middle class.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
44. I agree with you. However, don't forget that after WWII, Republicans
hired former Nazi propagandists to work on their political propaganda team. (check this out on the INTERNET)
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
68. And you do not think people will reach a point where they will bring
the hardware out of the closet? If so, I hope you are wrong. They will have to take my wife and I down in the street.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. The first of the nailgun nails in the coffin of SS is the
2% cut in SS funds that will never be rescinded, and 0 knows that. It is the death knell to SS. He has put SS on a shaky foundation; pitting young workers against older folks nearing retirement. That tax cut can never be rescinded in the present state of this government by the rich, for the rich and of the rich. He has bamboozled an entire population....again...and again, add infinitum.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I'm afraid I agree.
It has really caught me off guard that our party would do this.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. That is 100% correct.
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. K&R X1000! What puzzles me is how many of our fellow DUers
fail to see this.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. They don't understand (or don't wan't to acknowledge) that the President
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 10:44 AM by jtown1123
does not "get" Social Security and his advisors are woefully ignorant of the program. He has repeatedly spouted the false meme that Social Security adds to our deficit. That should raise a red flag that he does not understand the program, therefore may be less motivated to defend it at all costs. It's a winning issue across all political parties. If the president is truly serious about reaching across the aisle, he should make protecting Social Security his main talking point.
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
111. This is infuriating. But, then, many DU'ers are younger and know
they will not get any social security anyway. And problems see much more serious when they affect you directly.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for posting Mad,K & R for later response.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks.
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hard to decide whether they're worthless or destructive
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 02:51 AM by somone
i.e. same or worse
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. I know. I know.
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 03:56 AM by truedelphi
In either case, the Democratic Party needs some major re-organizing.

As a fifty something, I don't even care if I get Social Security as long as they give me back every red cent I put in with six percent interest!

But this whole "scare" of how the fund will be insolvent in like 2037or so is just nuts., It really is all about the nation being able to pay for the six wars we are now fighting.(Michael Moore shedding light on that earlier tonight - it's not two wars - it's six!)
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. How much more will it take to finally understand this is NOT a party which
represents the average American?

What more needs to be thrown in our faces - ?

How much more Shock and Awe?

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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
64. Until there is blood, no one will do anything except post on boards
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 02:52 PM by sirthomas66
and/or email or Fax Bernie Sanders, expecting results. This is the thing I am most disgusted about. We are American wimps. Have you heard anything from our little p president about replenishing the fund? No. And you won't. I just wonder what this congress will do when the year-end social security statements show a decrease in benefits. How can you steal benefits from people who have already contributed all of their working lives? As I have said continuously, if this happens, it is time to bring out the rakes and shovels. And they WILL come, and there will not be enough military to stop them.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. there will be blood.
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I live in California and groups are already forming, but not anything
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 03:13 PM by sirthomas66
like States like Idaho, Oklahoma, Texas and Arizona. One of the reason the government needs to control the internet is to keep us from communicating with one another. And they know they must act quickly, for when the tax holiday happens again, people (the activists at first) will hit the streets. It will an excellent time to fight and die.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
24. The New Deal was an exceptional episode in history.

It was not, as too many assume, a step in social evolution. Rather it was an aberration in capitalist history, one now being corrected as Capitalism returns to it's norm. It is however an object lesson in reformism, that lesson being that reforms will always be defeated or compromised into oblivion as long as the Capitalists have the power to do so. The only remedy is to separate the Capitalists from the source of their power, the means of production.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
97. I have to ask ... "How"?" -- but otherwise agree overall -- !!
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 09:01 PM by defendandprotect
Is there a day coming when everyone understands that they are labor --

and we all together decide to STOP being exploited -- fail to report for

work --have agreements with local food producers for future payment?

No heat, electricity -- how is it done?

I'm sure it can be done -- if we're all together in it!!



:)
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #97
115. Watch the Greeks....

The KKE is clear eyed and in it for the long haul. Our circumstances may be somewhat different, but not that different. Organization and solidarity are the glue which will bind us into a force that will be irresistible. It is not a matter of us convincing people, the capitalists will do that for us.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
25. Recommended.
It's up to us to stand up. Nobody will do it for us (save Bernie Sanders).
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bonnieS Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
26. Diane Ravitch
was on the Thom Hartmann show yesterday and was magnificent. She was adamant about how bad the "reforms" are. She spoke to the fact that poverty is the major problem, and that the reforms should be to our economic system, so that well fed and well taken care of children can come to school and learn, not be turned into little robots who can pass tests and not think. She spoke at length about her concerns about Bill Gates and the threat he and other billionaires pose to education.

As to who is standing up for a woman's right to choose, NOW is trying to, but when women are mostly complacent and believe that a charismatic leader is taking care of business, it is hard to whip up militancy, which is what we need. So many generations of women have now grown up taking certain rights for granted that they do not even believe there can be a threat. They barely know women's history--they just know they want a career. I recently had a discussion with my feminist niece, who has a feminist discussion group, and she never heard of Rosie the Riveter, for example. Her sense of women's history starts AFTER Roe v. Wade.

As to Social Security, I think everyone is trying to figure out how it will affect them personally , not quite believing that it will ever be gone, and certainly not for THEM. They also believe that other people will stop it from happening--seniors will march on Washington with their walkers and in their wheelchairs and happy days will be here again. Nothing else will be needed, according to this scenario.

Also, activists are demoralized from having gone to previous demonstrations on every/any issue for years and not getting any coverage whatsoever. Ten Tea Partiers can show up somewhere and get wall to wall coverage including Keith and Rachel; 132 anti-war protesters can be arrested outside the White House and be virtually ignored by the mainstream media, which really is "lame."The October 2 rally of labor and peace groups got zero coverage while the Jon Stewart rally for "sanity" also got wall to wall coverage.

So people are cowed, complacent, depressed, demoralized--just where our ruling elites want us. I am ready for the Social Security demonstrations, but I fear that no one will ever find out they happened afterward, let alone turn out in the first place.
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
73. When they happen, the boomers will be participating, and it will not
be like John Stewart's rally with singing songs and making speech after speech, signifying nothing. There will fights and blood. The boomers have everything you can imagine for such an event. And they will be ready. You say "Social Security Demonstration" God, I hope it is so much more than that, or just don't bother. We are being taken over, and having Betty and Jim get up an deliver a moving speech will do approximately nothing.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
101. When your demonstrations are covered and you begin to get noticed ....
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 09:44 PM by defendandprotect
then FBI will label you "terrorists" and get money for doing so from Homeland Security!

Lots of money behind the right wing movement -- and lots of violence --

the only way the right wing can rise is by political violence -- stolen elections -- and lies.

Until Americans wake up to the fact that this isn't "Conspiracy-free America" and begin to

discuss politics and understand the right wing wedge issues for what they are --

nothing much will change -- except we will be closer to "third world America."

:)

Of all the immensely shocking things that have gone on over the last two years --

it's also the disappearance of women's groups where they seem to have no prominence,

either, on the internet. Where were their voices during the MEDICARE FOR ALL debate?

Where from the first instance of "The cat food commission"?

They have been disappeared ...!

How often does Keith Olbermann tell us what NOS said about health care debate --

or Rachel -- or Schultz -- ?

They're doing plenty but they need to be reminded of women -- the majority of the nation --

the majority of workers -- and the majority of voters!


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
107. Excellent post.
You are so right. The fact that Tea Party groups can get such coverage in small groups and large groups of our activists are ignored....sad thing.

Ravitch is right about the billionaires. Their boys' club has their interests in mind...profit.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Sanctimonious" voters may end putting a whole lotta politicians
out on the unemployment lines in a few short years, regardless of party affiliation!
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. Obama is pleasing the people that matter--the corporatocracy.
AKA the Belt-way insiders, the ruling elite, the power brokers.

Neither the RepubliCONs nor the Democrats really give a damn about the majority.

Look at the grassroots CONs: They want to pay down the national debt? Bush and the CONgress doubled it. They want to outlaw abortion? Bush and the CONgress make symbolic tweaks to stem cell and overseas abortion regulations. They want illegals immigration stopped and illegals out? It's worse than ever after Bush.

Once they get elected, the RepubliCrats serve only their corporate masters, democracy be damned.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
84. Team Obama is counting on Big Money the next election. NO WAY will or can Obama ask for
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 05:51 PM by WinkyDink
"little donations". HE WON'T GET THEM.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
34. At this moment the best defense is the senate refusing to pass any
bills and the president vetoing any that might get passed or attached to some other bill. Obama made a big mistake letting that committee even begin to look at SS as one of the problems and giving us the break on payroll taxes but he can still use the veto to keep them from happening.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. How do you know it was a mistake? n/t
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Well, I suppose it depends on how you look at it. The repug leaders
on that committee are openly setting their party up against SS but on the other hand wouldn't it have been better to just explain that SS has nothing to do with the deficit? Also it makes it look like the Democratic Party is for cutting SS. Let me tell you as a senior that rings bells. Even in NE MN where seniors usually vote Democratic. I grew up believing that our party stood for helping not taking away. IF they actually go after SS I will have to rethink my ideas. Now I do think that SS needs to be changed (raise the caps and increase the taxes paid on SS when the recipient is high income) and I only trust the Democratic Party to do this. But will they or will they once again play for business?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
102. You really think that Obama set up the committee, named the Repugs to it ... and they
weren't doing what he expected them to do?

Presumably, Baucus wasn't doing what Obama expected him to do either with

dropping "public option" and "single payer" off the table???


:eyes:

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alturn Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
35. The only cure is is people power and to start the new
"Maitreya insists that there is a purpose in life for everyone. “It is divine to be a road-sweeper, or to sit on a throne. Everything is divine as long as whatever you do you do with detachment.” Faced with such awareness, all divisive politics can only crumble. Everyone will experience themselves as unique — how can they be told what to do by others, asked the associate. They will reject the old political system. This is the end of an old road — a new road begins, he added.
Everything is moving so fast now that events are beyond the control of the politicians. All political systems that divide the world, that create rich and poor, will come to an end."
- World Teacher Maitreya through an associate as reported in Share International magazine
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. Yes, and the road to "people power" is education. They have got
to be able to see how they are being used by the "Corptocracy". nt
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alturn Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
74. Absolutely education, education, education
“Awareness alone is more powerful than nuclear bombs, more powerful than anything else in the
universe. Awareness is even ‘beyond light’ and is growing fast now”.
- World Teacher Maitreya through an associate as reported in Share International magazine
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick for Truth.
The kleptocrats don't control everyone as long as we have madfloridian.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. But but but... "compromise"
:banghead:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
42. ALL according to the Plan, my dearie....
all according to plan.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. This is good thread . nt
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
47. I am very frightened about how I will be able to survive.....literally.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
48. EXCELLENT article/interview about this, and the media's complicity.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thanks for that link.
I agree, good article.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
50. It's worse than that; they aren't just "not standing up against Republicans", they are promoting
GOP positions on the issues. Obama fought to pass RomneyCare for the rest of the nation, he fought for tax breaks for the rich; he even said that "Republicans have good ideas" and Democratic leadership swore that they "wouldn't do anything to embarrass Republicans" when it came to discussing tax cuts for the wealthiest.

They're playing a "good cop, bad cop" routine. Anyone who isn't sucked into the MSM propaganda machine can easily see that.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
51. I started working at age 14, part time after school, and have paid into SS
till I retired a few weeks before my 60th birthday. I collect a small amount from SS, and my wife is on SS disability. We don't get much, but we depend on what we do get to pay medical bills and private insurance.

I want the President to understand this is not theoretical - this has to do with the good of most Americans, and I'm not really too concerned about his philosophy or bipartisanship or getting along with the GOP.

We elected him as a Democrat, and I want to see him live up to that label. There are some good things that have been done recently, let's not go back to giving up and giving in.

K&R

mark
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Ditto. No COLA incrreases on my SS for three years...all the costs around me are rising.
I am terrified.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #58
103. Seniors should be organizing to have the COLA's restored ... and actually based on inflation rates.!
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R Is there a way to calculate
how many people will be homeless without enough SS benefits? What is the plan for that?? How can it be acceptable to be putting people out of their homes???

How do we appeal to representatives who do not represent us any more? Is there any way to make them represent us? The system has become psychotic.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Probably about half of seniors. That is no joke. I believe more than half
rely on SS for 60% or more of their total income.
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BridgeTheGap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
55. When will it be time for, say, 4 or 5 million of us making our way to D.C.
to shut that fucking place down!?! They are so out of touch it's treasonous.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
104. They are not "out of touch" ... this isn't happening by accident ... it is purposeful....
and, sadly, Obama is leading the way on attacks on SS --

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
59. We've been had.
We can ignore it. We can pretend that it didn't happen. We can try to cheer ourselves hoarse to distract us from reality.

The reality is that we have been had.
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BridgeTheGap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. The talk about raising the retirement age in France...the workers there don't dick around.
They shut the place down.
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Yeah, but in this Country we've armed our police force to take down any revolt by "the people"
Not saying we don't need police, but even those not in riot gear are very quick to shoot to kill, ask questions later, knowing however many innocent people are killed, their actions will be justified.
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. As a result of the social security raid, the revolt will come and there
will not be enough police to stop them. Folks like me who served on the front lines in Vietnam are not one bit afraid of today's police.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #67
85. And, as with the Civil Rights Movement, people WILL die. It is the necessary stuff of revolts.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #85
106. Whatever the revolts, they must be kept non-violent ... only right wing profits from violence....
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #106
112. I didn't say the PROTESTORS would be the violent ones. History says it will be the police.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. Agree ....
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
63. Obama is not perfect, but....
didn't he sign the repeal of DADT? Didn't he make the trains run on time? Didn't he build the Autobahn?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
77. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Wow
Not very nice.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. LOL
:thumbsup:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
88. Laugh at me and give the insult a big thumbs up.
I am not the one in denial.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #77
86. If YOU wanted to maintain something, anything, would you appoint as guardian one who has vowed to
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 06:00 PM by WinkyDink
destroy it?
IOW: Alan Simpson, Republican former Senate leader, and Erskine Bowles, White House chief of staff under President Clinton.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Social Security has a guardian ?
How did I miss that?

Damn, talk about misinformation.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #90
108. Perhaps you thought Alan Simpson was appointed to SAVE Social Security....?
Try the game-playing on some other website --

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #90
113. The analogy might be flawed, but the point remains: Obama KNEW THE VIEWS of whom he was appointing.
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 11:49 PM by WinkyDink
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Turkey? Whine? Not germane? You are kidding yourself.
Not germane? What I say is not germane? I disagree. I will not be in denial about this. Too many are feeling the same way. Insult if you need to, but it is germane.

More on the topic.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/12/obamas-social-security-stumble/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-lux/where-do-obama-and-progre_b_800260.html

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/12/obamas-tax-deal-and-future-social-security

This kind of being in denial is not healthy.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #77
91. What a crappy mouth you have.
The better to wash down your brie and cabernet as the peasants starve. I would like to hope that you are just like the rest of us, subject to economic attack, but I suspect that such an attitude goes with a nice portfolio of corporate holdings that you think will inure you to our government's attack on SS. That or your willful denial will end in your being shocked, shocked I tell you, when you find yourself in the soup lines.

But then if you don't plan on doing anything about it, you might just as well remain blissfully oblivious and enjoy the ride to what is coming.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
82. Americans, those who need and those who loathe S.S., identify it with Democrats. ANY CUTS WILL DOOM
Edited on Wed Dec-22-10 06:01 PM by WinkyDink
OUR PARTY FOR ALL TIME.
People will never forget or forgive. I include myself in that group.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
89. r
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
92. RACE to the top is rebranded RESEGREGATION. That is all.
Oh, plus the profit thing. Don 't forget the private/profit axis of evil.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
93. What is the ratio
of women to men in the teaching profession from K thru 12? I know only women can get abortions...so we're always under the bus on that. Women get screwed on SS...so I am assuming most of the teachers are female.

I could see this coming a mile away....a couple of years away actually.

That underside of the bus sucks....

And I believe I'm correct that women still can not get abortions in the military....gee, that's something the Lesbians can look forward to after they're raped by their fellow servicemen.

Hurts??? They hate us. Remember the ERA? It brought Muslims and Jews together.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Last I heard..women in military couldn't get emergency contraception pills
though that part may have changed.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #94
109. They still can't even pay themselves for an abortion ... !!
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
95. K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
96. Hope he doesn't adopt the Bowles Simpson recommendation...
That would be scary. I wish someone among the power elite would say flat out...no no no we won't do that.

Latest deficit commission report will do great harm to those on Social Security. 20% cut.

4. The elderly will face harsh benefit cuts.

The average Social Security retirement benefit today is $1100, and even less for women ($920). Under this proposal a median earner, someone earning $43,000 in today's dollars, would face a 20% (19.1%) benefit cut. It looks, therefore, as if the average benefit would eventually drop to $889 overall, with women receiving an average of $744. These cuts are offset somewhat for lower-income workers but, as we'll see, those offsets aren't what they seem to be.


Two writers I respect fear this.

Kuttner: Blinking first on Social Security, Republicans win 3 ways.

And Dreyfuss:

The Real Threat to Social Security

An insistent part of the debate is a proposal to privatize one-sixth of the system, funneling at least $80 billion a year into privately held accounts that would invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds and money-market accounts. Of that $80 billion, something like 5 percent would be eaten up in bureaucratic and administrative costs, investment and management fees, and enforcement and compliance costs, with financial-services companies and investment houses pocketing $1 billion or more of the $4 billion total. And that would be just the beginning, since, once privatization of Social Security began, pressure would grow over time to complete it. In all, trillions of dollars are up for grabs; already Social Security accounts for a larger portion of the federal budget than the Pentagon and will rise exponentially decade after decade.

In his State of the Union speech, President Clinton fired the first shot in the battle, proposing to use the projected budget surplus to bolster the existing Social Security system. He avoided support for the private accounts privatizers want but, in a nod to free-marketeers, proposed investing part of the system's reserve funds in stocks and bonds and suggested a separate system of government-aided private accounts over and above Social Security.


The WORST part:

Commission recommends cutting Social Security to present retirees...should not have been on the table

The chairmen’s plan would increase the Social Security retirement age and limit yearly cost-of-living increases to the rate of inflation rather than of wage growth. The cut in annual increases would affect current retirees -- which was supposed to be off the table. Their benefits would go down by about 3 percent after they’ve been retired for 10 years, and about 6 percent after they’ve been retired for 20 years.

And the retirement age increase is just a particularly cruel way of cutting benefits. The age at which the elderly can retire on full Social Security benefits is already increasing to 67 by 2027. The chairmen’s plan would “index” the retirement age to increase in longevity, meaning it would hit 68 in about 2050 and 69 in about 2075.


So make your snide remarks, but I take all this very seriously.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
98. Democratic leadership is an oxymoron nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #98
110. Not true ... for decades, Dems have been leading us to the right ....
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
114. D or R, none of them will ever have to depend on social security.
None will ever need unemployment insurance. All of them can send their kids to the best private schools. None of these things affect them personally; they likely do not affect their family or friends (since they're all in the same social class). So they don't give a shit.

And for those who might be the type to care about people: since they don't generally encounter people who are not in their social class, they have no real knowledge that there are many people in existence whose lives depend on these things. They're clueless.
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