Should Chavez condemn his friend and fellow dictator Gaddafi?

[Very_Boring_Name]

[EFerrari]

1. The word you want is "Gaddafi".

lol

[meegbear]

5. Gaddafi? I though it was Gadhafi ...

or Qaddafi ... or Kadhafi.

[EFerrari]

11. LOL! True!

[Shining Jack]

18. Even when googling Gaddafii or Khaddafi you get to see his ugly mug.

Can't he make up his crazy mind and bomb everybody who doesn't spell it the way he wants it spelled? :silly:

[jberryhill]

61. The word he wants is written in Arabic

Transliterations of words in other scripts can vary.

It's not like Peking changed its name to Beijing, or that Bombay changed its name to Mumbai, either. They are the same cities in the same places, and neither of those places native names are in latin characters in the first place.

[Puregonzo1188]

2. I voted yes, though I don't understand the Chavez obessession. What's Mandela said about

his brother Gadaffi? Yes, Nelson Mandela.


That's not getting much play on DU is it?

[Modern_Matthew]

4. Me neither. I condemn both Gadaffi AND Chavez. n/t

[tabatha]

10. I would think that if Mandela knew of anything

bad that Gaddafi did, he would not have called him a friend.

I think he considered him a friend because they both threw off the imperialist yoke.

Mandela is probably appalled at what is going on now in Libya.

http://woyingi.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/gaddafi-mandela-african-mercenaries/

[Puregonzo1188]

32. Somehow I think Mandela, in 1997, must have been aware of "bad" things

Gaddafi had done.

And yes, I do agree with you as to why they consider each other friends, but why doesn't that apply to Chavez as well? Why can we rational Mandela being friends with Gaddafi as "they're both anti-imperialist," but with Chavez it's because they're both dictators.

[tabatha]

56. Your are presuming about 1997.

And BTW, the ANC has condemned Gaddafi.

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-02-28-sa-calls-on-au-to-end-violence-in-libya

You are comparing what Mandela did in 1997 with what Chavez is doing in 2011.

ON EDIT:

Also, in 1997, Mandela was President, having been in prison for a very long time, where I am sure he did not know too much about the details of what was going on in the rest of the world. I am sure all his energies and time, for an old man, were spent running the new South Africa, and he did not have time to research all about Gaddafi.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission were having hearings about the atrocities in South Africa, and it only wrapped up in 1998.

[Bake]

3. Interesting framing ...

Is Chavez, in fact, a dictator?

Bake

[EFerrari]

9. Any progressive leader in Latin America who flips off the US is a dictator.

By now, that's most of them. But our government and its owners go after Chavez because they rightly see him as an opinion leader within that group. See how it works?

[Shining Jack]

25. +1 n/t

[EFerrari]

29. This may be my last Chavez thread

so somebody else has to take up the mantle.

lol

[Shining Jack]

38. Are you kidding?

I wonder who could handle that mantle as well as you do. :)

[EFerrari]

46. Getting out of the way of better, fresher talent is the better part of wisdom.

lol

:hi:

[Shining Jack]

58. Lol!

:hi:

[Kurovski]

39. You know I would just fuck it up.

You're stuck with it, sister-woman.

[EFerrari]

43. LOL

I think this poor horse deserves a decent burial.

:hi:

[Kurovski]

45. Stop talking that way!

Mommy, you're scaring me!

:hi:

[JVS]

44. No please.

I've always seen your posts as extremely helpful on the issue as you know the language, the political culture, and you don't have an axe to grind about Cuba.

[Kurovski]

57. +1000

But I'm in love.

[vaberella]

72. Exactly. n/t

[SusanaMontana41]

77. I don't mind any progressive leader giving the U.S. the finger when it's deserved.

I also think it was more personal for Chavez than that. He gave Bush the finger.

I don't think he has a problem with Americans in general. Just a few. (Funny, I have a problem with the same ones ...)

Peace, y'all.

[SusanaMontana41]

79. What about Allende in Chile? Can't call a democratically elected president a dictator. n/t

Of course we know what ITT, Kissinger and Nixon did to him.

[EFerrari]

Well, when they kill you then they don't need to insult you 24/7

that's very true!

[SusanaMontana41]

84. Well, the point is, he was Latin American progressive and was not a dictator. Pinochet

got his. Bush will, too.

I like you, EFerrari. You make me think. Well, sometimes you make me scratch my head ... lol!

[EFerrari]

88. LOL

I meant, they're "dictators" while they manage to stay alive.

:)

[Puregonzo1188]

19. Oh, I missed that. I regret voting yes now.

[Kurovski]

40. Just unrec' like I did.

As insurance.

This era in DU: "The Rec Wars" :crazy:

[nichomachus]

6. Should George Bush condemn his friends who are fellow dictators?

[EFerrari]

14. Should Hillary Clinton have condemned her "family friend" Mubarak?

We could do this all day.

[nichomachus]

21. No, you can.

Other people have lives.

[EFerrari]

23. I hope other people have lives that include chewing gum and walking.

:)

[SusanaMontana41]

83. Huh? I don't get it. But you sure are entertaining. n/t

[Very_Boring_Name]

15. Absolutely

[EFerrari]

16. Meanwhile, Mullens praised the king of Bahrain

and Obama has said nothing about violent repression in Iraq.

So many straw men, so little time. :)

[Kurovski]

42. Saudi Arabia is super-cool, I hear.

Why doesn't everyone just move there?

[EFerrari]

48. The Saudis make triangulation look like hopscotch and personally tanked the DLC.

[Kurovski]

50. But they have nice malls.

Now you're just being difficult for difficulties' sake.

You know the DLC doesn't exist.

[EFerrari]

51. I SAW a light on in that room!

[Kurovski]

53. !

:rofl:

[SusanaMontana41]

85. Wouldn't say they're straw men, but you do have a point. n/t

[EFerrari]

99. It's a straw man because it asks, look what Chavez didn't do. n/t

[SusanaMontana41]

81. + a brazillion. Thank you.

[Skidmore]

7. What is with all of these asinine polls which ask the obvious?

[leveymg]

8. I don't accept the proposition that Chavez is really a dictator.

Farcical, maybe, but not nearly as malign or venal. Certainly less ambitious.

[Doctor_J]

12. unrec

:eyes:

[robdogbucky]

13. Help! The Rovian Concern Trolls have invaded, the Rovian Concern Trolls have invaded! n/t

[nichomachus]

20. +1

[frylock]

17. knu

democratically elected dictator.

[JVS]

22. Chavez isn't a dictator.

[slay]

27. +1

n/t

[Kurovski]

60. +1

[SusanaMontana41]

86. +1 n/t

[L. Coyote]

93. NEVER was, but Bush installed one for a few hours when he tried to overthrow a democracy!

And Chavez kicked Bush's sorry ass back to Texas.

[ReggieVeggie]

95. I wonder if Clinton or Obama would have authorized the same

given Dem support of the Iraq war something tells me they would

[sufrommich]

24. Venezuela union leader Ruben Gonzalez jailed for strike

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12604642


Why people make excuses for this guy is beyond me.

[EFerrari]

26. You post a story that is exclusively from the viewpoint of the defendent

in this case and ask why people defend Chavez

Really?

[sufrommich]

31. And you defend a world leader who jails labor union leaders.

Really?

[EFerrari]

33. I don't know the facts of the case.

And too many of these stories have turned out to be mierda. Yup.

[cali]

37. lol.

and you allow no criticism whatsoever of Chavez but bray on about how he's alaways a victim.

It's become quite funny.

:rofl:

[Kurovski]

59. What is it about right-wing propaganda that makes you such a fan?

That's just a general observation.

[Puregonzo1188]

35. Make excuses is different than saying someone who isn't a dictator isn't.

Chavez is democratically elected in internationally monitored elections in the country with the second highest satisfaction with democracy in the region.

In terms of freedom of speech, read about Fred Hampton or the Socialist Workers Party sometime.

[sufrommich]

28. Wrong thread. nt

[EFerrari]

30. Do you have a list of OPEC members who have condemned Gaddafi?

Thanks.

[Shining Jack]

34. How is this related to Chavez?

:shrug:

[sufrommich]

36. I posted it in the wrong thread. nt

[Shining Jack]

41. Oh, sorry then.

[Agent William]

47. Chavez was elected, he has popular support, ergo he is not a dictator. n/t

[blondeatlast]

49. Chavez isn't a dictator. He MAY be part of that word (phonetically), but

technically, he isn't a dictator (as many have already pointed out).

[EFerrari]

52. Chavez just calls out the same guys we do

but the media makes it sound like he's calling us out, that's why he sounds like a dick to us.

[blondeatlast]

55. You have a point. I'm not a fan, but I don't think he's the Satan he's been presented to us as. nt

[EFerrari]

62. I didn't know dick about him before DU.

But if I had a nickel for every bs story I've chased down since, I could go to the Olive Garden and buy myself a suckling pitbull with a side of circumcision and a smoker to go.

[blondeatlast]

66. I'll kick in for the Laura Branigan vinyl LP! nt

[EFerrari]

67. LOL!

:)

[apocalypsehow]

54. Yes.n/t.

[Kurovski]

63. Yes and no. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. Flamebait.

[Kurovski]

69. Laugh party!

It's a LULZfest.

[mmonk]

65. When did Chavez become a dictator? I thought he was elected.

Like Mubarak............oh wait.

[EFerrari]

68. Chavez was elected in monitored clean elections.

Mubarak was elected in a process more like ours. :)

[Kurovski]

70. And the winner and champ-een is...

That Girl!

[EFerrari]

73. Remember to tip your wait staff.

[Kurovski]

74. Aww, Marlo.

Hey wait! Ain't she a Muslim!!??

[EFerrari]

75. Notice you never see her and Michelle Obama together?

Why is THAT?

lol

[Kurovski]

78. I saw them fist-bump once!!!

[upi402]

82. Good one! +1^

I'm usually supportive of him but hafta part ways at this point. Medicine is indicated!:silly:

[EFerrari]

90. It's a no winner.

None of the OPEC guys are going to do that. And Venezuela and Ecuador sure can't be the only ones.

[rabs]

71. Unrec

for stupidly in labeling Chavez a "fellow dictator."

Oh, has Dubya, who restored relations with Gadaffi (oil, you know), condemned him yet? Has Condi Rice returned the $300,000 in jewelry Gadaffi showered on her?

[L. Coyote]

97. Thanks, almost forgot. Oh yeah, there's that IGNORE THREADS thingie too!

[On the Road]

76. I Have Some Sympathy with What Chavez is Trying to Do

as well as some reservations. But this is definitely a black mark on his record.

It reminds me of the term 'politically correct,' which was originally used for American leftists who refused to condemn Stalin on grounds such as 'you have to break some eggs to make an omelet.' If someone starts doing what Gadaffi did, he has to be condemned. Period.

[Kurovski]

91. DUer Catherina has a theory on this also espoused by youth in ME.

posts #28 and #33.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=534930&mesg_id=535573

Everyone has a tactic/tactics. including Obama.

It's stomach-turning, but you know the line from Willy the Shake: "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive "

[krispos42]

80. Chavez is not a dictator. Free and fair elections put him in power

The American plutocracy hates him, so they call him that.

[Ignis]

87. Dictator?

[lunatica]

89. I think Chavez just likes to pick at the US scab and see it bleed a little

[L. Coyote]

92. Should democratically-elected President Chavez condemn fellow national leader al-Qaddaffi?

We need more ways to spell Muʿammar al-Qaḏḏāfī's name :rofl:

Polling requires beginning without built-in prejudices.

[Dappleganger]

94. Doesn't matter.

He's a dictator, the fact that he can be benevolent at times doesn't give him instant credibility.

[TheKentuckian]

100. How is a dictator, because he doesn't play international ball?

Which he shouldn't.

[L. Coyote]

96. Tea baggers are not the only liars in politics!

Here at DU we have quite a few too!

[killbotfactory]

98. Unfortunately, most nation states that exist in the world have horrible human rights records

And we as a nation deal favorably with many of worst of them, even while we condemn the other nations who deal favorably with all the others. But when one of them is in the process of actively slaughtering their own population and starting a civil war in the process to thwart any and all peaceful avenues for democratic change, you have to draw the line.