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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 09:58 AM
Original message
"Your Forefathers Would All Have Been Gassed"
There's a video available online that has created quite a scandal this week. It shows a fashion designer in Paris telling someone he loves Hitler and that their mothers and forefathers would have all been gassed to death.

I think the staying power of Hitlerian madness is more easily understood when we properly understand that Hitler and the Nazis didn't invent it out of whole cloth but built on a deep tradition that had long dominated European and U.S. culture. I wrote about U.S. influences on Hitler in "War Is A Lie." Another book that should be required reading is "Exterminate the Brutes," by Sven Lindqvist.

I just spoke at an event together with Ben Ferencz, the last living prosecutor of the Nazis at Nuremberg, and he compared current U.S. foreign policy to the actions of the Nazis. At the same event, author Sandy Davies described the current U.S. war on Iraq as genocide. I've also noticed in recent years that U.S. abuses of civil liberties abroad swiftly make their way home. Lindqvist documents the roots of the Nazis' genocidal policies in the earlier colonial and imperial policies of Germany, Belgium, France, Spain, England, and the United States. Maybe we should be paying closer attention to the policies of aggressive war that Ferencz denounces.

Lindqvist borrowed his book's title from a line in Joseph Conrad's "The Heart of Darkness," a book that, he suggests, accurately portrayed what was happening in European empires in the late 19th century -- a book that was, in fact, able to convey scenes without much detailed description because the reality was widely understood. In fact, Lindqvist argues, it was understood and accepted as an act of charity to exterminate "inferior races." Lindqvist quotes Winston Churchill's description of a slaughter of Africans by British guns, which Churchill concludes thus:

"It was a terrible sight, for as yet they had not hurt us at all, and it seemed an unfair advantage to strike thus cruelly when they could not reply."

Lindqvist comments:

"An old-fashioned concept of honor and fair play, an admiration for such pointless bravery, had still not been superseded by the modern understanding that technical superiority provides a natural right to annihilate the enemy even when he is defenseless."

Lindqvist says nothing more about Churchill, but Churchill was clearly with the program when he remarked in 1937 in reference to Palestinians:

"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

This so-called modern understanding developed among scientists during the mid- to late-19th century. Charles Darwin, in "The Descent of Man" (1871), Lindqvist writes, "made public his conviction. Today between the primates and civilized man are intermediate forms such as gorillas and savages, he says in chapter 6. But both these intermediate forms are dying out. 'At some future period not very distant as measured in centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races.'"

It was only at the end of the 18th century that European scientists began facing up to the fact that species of any animal could go extinct, and indeed had done so. By the end of the 19th century this was believed to be inevitable and desirable for "inferior" varieties. But the exterminations of peoples by the Europeans had begun in 1478, when the Spanish had taken over the Canary Islands, whose native population of some 80,000 human beings had been exterminated through disease and murder by 1496. By then Columbus had brought European diseases, slave drivers, and war makers to the Americas.

While whole peoples were wiped out in the Americas, Asia, and the Pacific over the centuries, the example of Tasmania, an island the size of Ireland off Australia, was later much discussed. The first Europeans had arrived in Tasmania in 1803 and begun massacring the local people in 1804. In 1829, all non-Europeans were concentrated in one area and hunted down. When "The Origin of Species" was published in 1859, only nine Tasmanian women remained, all too old to have children. The last Tasmanian woman died in 1876. Her skeleton is displayed in the Tasmanian Museum. Lindqvist doesn't mention it, but only creative nonviolent action later saved the Maori people of New Zealand from extermination.

In 1891, Friedrich Ratzel published "Anthropogeographie" in Germany with a chapter devoted to "the decline of peoples of inferior cultures at contact with culture." Ratzel considered this a deplorable situation, but Germany was developing colonial ambitions, and Ratzel quickly came to consider the extinctions of "inferior" people simply the speeding up of an inevitable process. In his "Politische Geographie" (1897), a book that Hitler was given in 1924, Ratzel managed to group Jews and gypsies with "the stunted hunting people in the African interior." Ratzel was drawing on French and British traditions, and Germanizing them. Alexander Tille, a lecturer in German at Glasgow from 1890-1900, did the same, bringing Spencer's and Darwin's theories together with Nietzsche's Ubermenschen morality.

In 1904, the Germans proved they could do what the Americans and British had mastered: they could hasten the end of an "inferior" race. This the Germans did to the Herero people of Southwest Africa, murdering them, driving them into the desert, and imposing hard labor on the survivors in concentration camps. That term, "concentration camp," had been invented in 1896 by the Spaniards in Cuba, used by the Americans, and used in the Boer War by the British. Now it was German too.

So was another term used by Ratzel: "Lebensraum." Ratzel had been to North America and seen how the Americans killed off the Indians by taking their land. He thought that any great agricultural state needed to seize more land from "lesser" races. As it happened, this was the industrial age, and as Lindqvist notes, "Hitler started the war to acquire more agricultural land a few decades before all the states of Europe began to pay their farmers to reduce cultivation." But Hitler thought of Eastern Europe as farm land to be taken by his master race, in fact as colonial territory equivalent to the colonies that other European nations had long maintained at greater distances from home.

People living to the east of Germany, in Hitler's view, were uncivilized and better off dead. Only 3.5% of English and American prisoners of war held by the Nazis died in captivity, because the Nazis followed standards appropriate for those of their own race. In contrast, 57% of Soviet prisoners of war, including 3.3 million Russians, died while held by the Germans. Lindqvist credits this disparity to the racial theories and motivations of the Nazis, and it seems very likely that he is at least partly right. Lindqvist explains:

"The main intention behind the conquest was not to murder Jews, just as the Americans did not advance westward in order to murder Indians. The intention was to expand Germany's own Lebensraum. The Russian Jews lived in just those areas Hitler was after, making up 10 percent of the total population there and up to 40 percent of the urban population. To faithful Nazis, the killing of Jews was a way of implementing the most central point of the party program. For those less faithful, it was a practical way of reducing the consumption of food and making room for the future German settlement."

Another way in which Lindqvist could have phrased that is this: Hitler's main intention was to kill Jews in order to gain Lebensraum. An important point to stress, with such an emotional issue, how ever unfathomably simple-minded it may seem, is that Hitler and the Nazis did what they did. The fact that the Germans and other European states had done so before in Africa, in America, and on islands in the Pacific doesn't make any crime better or worse or get anyone off the hook for ordering or participating in genocide.

The historical roots of European/American genocide can, however, do a couple of useful things, I believe. The pre-Nazi genocides can direct our gaze in a new way at the post-Nazi genocides, including our recent action in Iraq. We now talk of "humanitarian wars," but those wars leave dead or driven out of their land significant portions of the population. And there can be little doubt that were Vietnamese or Iraqis "white" and Christian, the history of U.S. crimes would be far less hideous. The right to annihilate inferior peoples now goes unsaid, replaced in our rhetoric not with Churchill's sportsmanship but with the idea that by making war on people we are helping them. This is an idea with deep roots in the history of spreading "civilization." In fact, central to that history is the idea of benefiting "savages" by exterminating them.

Perhaps by looking into this heart of darkness and experiencing the proper revulsion we can finally overcome it.


David Swanson is the author of "War Is A Lie" http://warisalie.org
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks and thanks for the links.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. you're very
welcome :-)
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sure you're aware - but it bears repeating
That a lot of anti-unionisim has it's roots in this area. Throughout his mysoginistic life, Henry Ford referred to labor issues as "the Jewish problem.


PS: I have been a lifelong auto enthusiast, especially of Ford cars. Ford's (Henry was proof that the brightest guy doesn't always win...)company was saved from him numerous times by talented, headstrong engineers, like engine designer Bill Sullivan.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. not to mention
his partnership with the Nazis
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. Bad - but pikers compared to the Bush & Dulles families
Ford of Germany was one of the few foreign companies not nationalised by the Nazis. Not good....

Prescott Bush was virtually Hitler's point man in America. Highlights include his participation in the Silesian-American Steel Co., conceived from the beginning to use slave labor, and the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line " questions were being raised as to who were the financial backers behind the Nazi Party electioneering & their 300,000 - 400,000 SA & SS troops - adding that the American-owned Hamburg-Amerika Line was funding propaganda against the German government’s attempts to disband these troops!". The Dulles bros., whose OSS eventually became the CIA - bad actors from the drop : " May. 20. ‘33: As reported in the New York Times: on Hitler achieving power, an agreement to coordinate all trade between Germany & America was reached in Berlin after negotiations between Hitler’s Economics Minister, Hjalmar Schacht (above) & John Foster Dulles. As a result of this, the Harriman International Co. - under Oliver Harriman (Averell’s first cousin) - formed a syndicate of 150 firms/individuals to conduct all exports from Germany to America. It should be noted here that the two Dulles brothers, partners in the corporate law firm Sullivan &
Cromwell, had acted for many Nazi enterprises during & after this period, including I. G. Farben, developer of the nerve gas, Tabun; SKF, supplier of 60% of its bearings to Germany; & the Schroeder Banking house, of which Allen Welsh Dulles became a director of its New York branch - a post he held until 1944. (Further pertinent details of the Dulles brothers: J. F. Dulles became Secretary of State <‘53 - ‘59>; A. W. Dulles became CIA Deputy Director for Plans <‘51>; Deputy Director of Central Intelligence <‘51 - ‘53>; & Director of CIA"

From: Bush-Law in the Land of Mannon
Alfred Mendes outlines the history of America's beloved First Family and some of their choice friends.
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nightgaunt Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. The same forces that almost started a civil war II in the USA are doing it again now
"The Fraternity" in the 1920's & 1930's wanted to directly take over the USA and either kill FDR or use him as a figure head. If only they had chosen a less patriotic general to lead their proposed armies they could have won because FDR had no idea it was going on. The richest and most privileged of the elites wanted Fascism here. A red, white and blue star spangled one to be sure all American, but fascist non-the-less, and ruled by a board of directors of their choosing. You can imagine what side we would have been on in the coming war and it wouldn't have been with France and Britain. (But they would have found a way to make the UK in their sphere somehow.) Since FDR failed to punish them, with death, and confiscation of all their wealth, he laid us open to what has been going on since 1980 and the spiral downward or our republic and the shrinking Middle Class and the down grading of our Republic are all planned. Only this time it is from the inside. We are ripe to be plundered and rebuilt by the oligarchs of today into a new shiny Holy American Empire. It can still happen it is just a matter of time. If we can't stop it.
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Mopar151 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. They've been trying non-stop since Teddy Roosevelt
IMHO, Karma has saved our ass numerous times - at least partly because of the comic ineptitude of their lackeys at critical moments. But we have to keep digging up the truth, and spreading the word.
I'd love to see a movie version of "War is a Racket" - it'd open a LOT of eyes.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. K & R - even though reading this breaks my heart.
I had no idea the casual acceptance of genocide in European and American culture was a mainstream attitude during the pre-Nazi period (late 19th-early 20th centuries). I could and should have known, of course. But I saw every instance I was aware of as some kind of aberration. I just never connected the dots in the right way before. It was NOT an aberration but a mainstream attitude--and why wouldn't it be? It's SOP for any colonial power to come up with an "intellectual" or quasi-moral rationale for its exploitation and brutality and genocide.

Isn't it long past time to STOP doing this?
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. that's the point i think
yes it's way past time
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UnDued11 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The problem is that not enough people know this stuff
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 12:25 PM by UnDued11
Our school system is not set up to teach much real history..

We all get History-Lite, and the ones who dig deeper and follow up in college find themselves unable to make much income at it, and end up writing about it for OTHER history enthusiasts, and the rest of society only ends up knowing what History Channel, A & E, and nutsos on tv & radio tell them is true.:(

In AP history, a teacher of mine got in trouble for showing us pictures of some of the indignities perpetrated upon the people of Stalingrad in WWII.(mass public hangings)..

Our school systems prefer history, the mythology version, so not many people ever really get the grasp of what people have done to each other in the name of "national/cultural pride"..:cry:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. And what the OP peddles is historic revisionism.
take some truth, mix with falsehood and voila, Swansonesque "history".
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UnDued11 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "History" is always somewhat revisionist.
That's why more is always better. People are still writing books about Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, and probably all of them have truth in them.. A fact is a fact, but depending on sight-line, it may not be seen the same way by all people.... that's why it's useful to have many people report facts, and the more people who read those facts, the better picture emerges, of what happened and why.

Imagine what history would be if the winners had ended up losers, and of all the tales that would never be told.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Very true. Otherwise, why would we (americans) have a holiday for
a child molester and mass murderer? Columbus Day.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1011-27.htm
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. that's true but some things are less ambiguous and better documented than others
as is noted down thread, Mr.Swanson is conflating Lebensraum- Hitler's expansionist foreign policy with his genocide of the Jews. They have little to do with one another. It's simply made up.
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billh58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. +1000
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 03:38 PM by billh58
"Author of The World As I See It (For Fun and Profit)..."
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. History may well be revisionistic. However, you only have to watch...
...a few Westerns to see how FUCKING PROUD America was of the miltiple genocides that followed (or preceded) the white man across the continent. You might also take look at a few "off Casino" reservations to see how little matters have truly improved since Little Big Horn.

Films accurately portraying the treatment of Blacks in America don't see much air time these days.

And THERE my friend is the true historical revisionism. You see it in the movies that are no longer shown publically. You also see it in the polititians who claim "it wasn't so bad" or "we did them a favour". We're seeing it right now in the national "forgetting" of what was done to the poor black people of New Orleans prior to, during, immediately and long after Katrina.

And as mentioned in the article: You see it in the schoolrooms of many Western nations. Where it is now chosen to teach virtually nothing at all on the subject of colonialism, rather than expose kiddies to the truth, since taking pride in kicking the living snot out "savages" who couldn't fight back effectively, has fallen out of fashion.

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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. +1
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
43. True enough. And that's true of the mythology of just about every nation
or group. It's a human thing, not merely a western thing.

And sorry, but the article is still full of shit. Conflating lebensraum with the genocide of the Jews is absurd. Two unrelated policies. It doesn't take my knowledge of history to know that.

Furthermore, what's the point of the silly gratuitous title? That it's grabbed from the headlines? How does it relate to the body of the piece.

Yes, I'm a stickler for facts. Mr. Swanson plays fast and loose with them in virtually every piece he posts and sadly the majority here don't know it.

I find it despicable.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. I spent a very illuminating couple of afternoons
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 06:43 PM by truedelphi
Reading just about every issue of Life Magazine, from its inception date in the teens to the early fifties.

In the letters to the editors, the "n" word was used freely back in the day. Ditto the "k" word for Jewish people.

Hitler was celebrated in several Life Magazine issues circa 1936, '37, and maybe even '38. He was hailed as a genius who had finally gotten the Austrian and German empires to once again combine into one totality.

Although there was a two or three page spread on how uncomfortable it was to be a Jew living in Germany, there was still a rah rah contagious feeling of exuberance over the "New Germany!"

It was very interesting to read the history of the times in terms of how it was reported then, before the war.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
25.  "We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison."
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their right to strike." - Adolph Hitler, May 2 1933
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Could be lots o' NAZIs in the Fashion Business
Costs big geld to look sehr gut, ja.



Hugo Boss Acknowledges Link to Nazi Regime.

Little background, courtesy of Mr. Edwin Black and many good DUers:

Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

Most importantly: Outstanding post, DavidSwanson. Would more people -- especially people of European ancestry -- knew their history.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Thanks for posting the Edwin Black article. For the first time in my
life, after reading his book, I understood my family history. We have a deep strain of mental illness - bipolar in generations of our family. During the time of his book my grandfather & wife were looking after 2 aunts who had a "mental illness" and one of their older daughters. The community was afraid of them. Finally about 1924 the oldest aunt was institutionalized and later the oldest daughter was also. Both were forcibly sterilized and only in the 50s was the daughter allowed out to live in our community.

My point is that it was not just an ethnic genocide but also a genocide of the diseased, the poor and others. We fit the Nordic model except we were sick.

If this was allowed to happen today under the new corporatism that is developing eugenics now has become genetics with a full map of all the diseases. Add that to the hatred people like beck and limpballs, etc. are fomenting and you end up in a hell of a mess. It is the one event I have not been able to find a way of protecting my family from even today.
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siligut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Killing is so much simpler if the people who have the stuff you want don't really deserve to live
They tell themselves they are actually making the world a better place while filling their pockets. This is why the enemy is given pet names, like gook and polack, it dehumanizes them. This also gives some insight into groups that study ancestry, they believe they gain standing from a worthy heritage. Great post and very pertinent.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. My hobby is genealogy. I started doing it while I took care of my
severely disabled daughter so that I would also have something to do. I overheard my aunt and grandfather talking about an ancestor who was in the civil war, as a history buff I was hooked.
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siligut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I think it would be interesting too
And don't believe that all the people who research it are interested in reinforcing their worthiness to live. I just know that one of the biggest resources for information has a value system that grades people. The best to you in caring for your family.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Geeaology and ancestry are not quite the same things.
Ancestry has its roots in ancestor worship and there are strong elements of demonstrating personal worth through the perceived worth of one's ancestors.

Modern geneaology on the other hand grew from tracing familial traits, oftimes ones we would prefer to be without. It's a study of what is, warts and all.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. You are so correct. I have always told the kids that.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. The state of Israel was created
because Europeans didn't want to return the land stolen from the Jews.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. That and the need of Great Britain to protect its
Oil nation contacts.

Sort of a win, win for everyone but those Palestinians!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. aaargh. more revisionist history
"The main intention behind the conquest was not to murder Jews, just as the Americans did not advance westward in order to murder Indians. The intention was to expand Germany's own Lebensraum. The Russian Jews lived in just those areas Hitler was after, making up 10 percent of the total population there and up to 40 percent of the urban population. To faithful Nazis, the killing of Jews was a way of implementing the most central point of the party program. For those less faithful, it was a practical way of reducing the consumption of food and making room for the future German settlement."

That's patently untrue. The extermination of the Jews was a central tenet of Hitler's. That couldn't be easier to demonstrate. A reading of Mein Kampf should suffice.


Really, this crap is despicable. As is the shite about how Hitler learned it all from the Brits and the Americans. It's more of the simplistic black/white crap you peddle virtually non-stop.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Agreed
Much like the "Civil war wasn't about slavery" revisionist shit
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. +100
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Jmaxfie1 Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. I agree...
Lebensraum had more to do with killing of Slavs to make room for German farmers. (The Nazis had a weird back-to-nature-plan to purify the volk) Getting rid of the Jews was much different and was not about "living space".
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. that's exactly right. Mr. Swanson is conflating two different strands
of Nazi tactics.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. Exactly
Thanks for calling this bullshit out for what it is.
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. This sort of thing has been going on forever.
The British tried to annihilate the Irish way back when. I think starting in the 1100's or so the British/English invaded Ireland about every 25 years trying to conquer and finish off the 'savage' tribes. Continuing into the 1800's with laws that prevented the Irish from owning anything, especially land, not allowing a catholic custody of children etc. In Scotland what the English did was called the Clearances. I imagine the same thing could be said for the ancient Romans. History spends more time covering wars and personalities than on general underlying trends.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I grew up in an Irish catholic area of
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 06:33 PM by truedelphi
Chicago, CIRCA 1950'S TO 1960'S.

The Catholic nuns, many of whom were Irish, taught us that the Irish were so attached to eating only potatoes that that was the only crop that they bothered to plant. And that when the potato blight hit, the Irish either starved, toughed it out, or emigrated to America.

According to what we were taught, it was rather like the Catholic Irish deserved what happened to them in the eighteen hundreds.

Nothing was said at all about the fact that England took every cow, sheep, goat, horse, grain, fruit, vegetable and milk bucket away from the Catholic Irish. Often when their pets and their food were taken away, they were penalized to boot.



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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. they also do not point out that more food was going out of the
country(ireland) than was coming in as relief. I believe most of the food going out of ireland was going to england to feed the english. And that all the good food, wheat, barley or whatever was grown for cash or for the owner of the land. Potatoes were all that was left for the farmer to eat. Ps. potato soup made with milk is very nutritious.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. Gratuitous and clumsy dragging in of the Galliano business.
It has zip to do with what follows.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. WOO OOO WEEEE!!! That is some scary shit. Put that way, it's hard to deny
that we are acting just like the Nazis even as they were acting just like the American Empire as it expanded.

That history lesson was very meaning filled.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Y'know where they screwed up?
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 10:41 PM by BeFree
They taught a whole bunch of us how to read.

Now, stories like this one get around and their story gets all changed around and we all begin to see the barbarity in a new light.

They know where they screwed up and, by gawd and by walker, they aim to get rid of teachers so the future generations become less and less educated. Then they can get back to their empires unimpeded.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. By Dawg, I'm afraid you're right, BeFree. Hell, I can read and DO read all the time
but I had never quite put that vile puzzle all the way together; although, I was on the verge and already knew that stench was overwhelming.

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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
35. Your own book should be 'required reading'?
It's more convincing if someone else says it.

And most of the conclusions here are pretty shallow. The West doesnt bear responsibility for Nazi policies . . . the Nazis do. There's also your characterization of the Iraq war as 'genocide'. Either you don't know what that word means or you're deliberately misleading people.
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. I've always admired your writing, but...
...I think it is better now than ever. I'm quite amazed that you could improve upon your already very well-developed craft, in fact. Very precise, but eminently readable. It drew me in to the subject matter, almost against my will.

I mean....at this time of night, who wants to end their day with these thoughts?

Thanks, as always...
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. thanks
:-)
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
40. places past genocide in the continuum of dehumanization for 'justifiable homicide'. well done.
dehumanization (be it of 'the enemy' or of the 'inferior savage') is essential for the activation of a populace to gladly act out inhumane policies of mass murder and enslavement. no act of inhumanity is so singular that it cannot be integrated into the narrative where necessity of mental frameworks is used to excuse it. turning the mind to hate, but masked in the name of righteousness, is a prerequisite to carry out cruelty.

essentially, evil must be reasoned out to be morally imperative for it to be digestible to the populace. it takes logic unmoored and faith blinded to excuse the inexcusable.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. does it mattter that he's making stuff up?
The policy of lebensraum had nothing to do with the genocide of the Jews.

A piece rooted in a LIE is hardly well done.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
41. Thanks for this David
They perfect killing during Atlantic slavery.
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