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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:10 PM
Original message
Connecting the dots can get a little uncomfortable
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 12:14 PM by Horse with no Name
When I was growing up, my mom worked in a UNION grocery store.

In the mid-70's, she made close to $20/hour with excellent benefits. But to make a finer point, there was an entire store full of employees who had the same deal, and nationwide, there were over 100 stores. You get the picture.

My Dad owned his own small business.

I remember we bought a nice little house. I also remember that their payments were $175 month.
My Dad drove a new Ford. He paid close to $8k for it. My mom drove a new Firebird.

We had horses and took vacations. We lived a normal, comfortable, middle class lifestyle.

I don't ever remember NEEDING anything...wanting, yes of course. I was a kid and that's what kids do.

We moved to Texas.

My mom went around to non-union grocery stores. She had extensive experience in management.
The MOST she was offered was $4.25 an hour (minimum wage was $2.65). No benefits. She refused to give anyone her years of grocery experience and was insulted by the offers. She ended up entering another field, but still made less than $8/hour. In 1978.

Talk about a paycut from a UNION job to a NON-UNION job.

This is why they are union busting. In Texas, they have been quietly union busting for years!
And not just in their state. Conditioning people to believe that they are lucky to have jobs that pay $8 an hour--while creating an atmosphere that UNIONS are bad and evil and that they are the reason that THEIR wages are lower.

Now, there is at least a generation that has grown up believing this is the best there is.

But watching as things unfold, it is starting to get a little uncomfortable.

This morning, I watched the gas go up another .05 a gallon. It made me cringe. This makes an increase of .30 in the last 4 days.

At the grocery store, I am spending more and getting less.

My health insurance just went up--although not nearly as much as I expected. An extra $100 a month.

High energy bills are up...higher.

There is a concerted attempt across the country to bust the unions. They want to take those jobs making living wages down and turn them into $8 an hour jobs.

Corporations are getting richer by the second. The rich are getting richer by the second. But it isn't enough. They want MORE and MORE and MORE.

Shared sacrifice is a joke. There is NO sharing here. Our President needs to understand that. Instead, the workers who have been beat down since the Reagan era want to pull the workers down that have been fortunate enough to make a decent living to their level because of spite and pure jealousy. Mr. President...sacrifice will be noticeable when the profit margins start decreasing instead of increasing to record levels each year. It doesn't take an economist to figure that out.
Quit telling us there is shared sacrifice because it simply does not exist.

It is a race to the bottom.

But, the ingredient for the PERFECT STORM is taking away the social safety net.

It's happening as we speak. Thread by thread by thread.

It won't be long until we find out what hell has been wrought. It is on the near horizon.

People are going to die in the streets. It really is that simple.

But, with world resources diminishing, is that the end game anyway? To get rid of US by instigating us to fight each other, while they sit back and smoke their Black Dragon cigars?

To put it even more simply, we are in the way. The healthiest of us will survive and they will be the worker class. The sick and weak ones will die off because to the rich, they are just money pits anyway.

Wake up America. We are a stones throw from hell and you are carrying the handbasket.




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Poboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. R'd
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. RONALD RAY-GUN INITIATED THE MEAN STREAK IN AMERICA
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. nice post!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R n/t
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Many Americans today are programmed "stupid" robots. Many just react with
no brain engaged to their hot buttons pushed by political operatives, often voting in absolute fools and sociopaths with none of the voters interests in mind. Often I think US should be renamed United Stupidity. You look at the crap going on and just about every moment is a WTF moment.

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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
43. If we had something like a Fairness Doctrine, the "stupid" programming
e.g. Fox News and other RW propaganda organs, would STOP.
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1gobluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. +1
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
65. +1, n/t
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VoteProgressive Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
78. +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
51. You're blaming the victims -- we lost even the myth of a free press long ago -- we have 24/7 rw lies
Granted -- we all need our BS meters turned up waaaay higher --

too many still trust their government, unquestionably!

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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. How will we as a nation get beyond the lies and money? n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. Yes, it is a form of hatred, too. Then ignoring the REAL victims, poor people,
compounds the whole thing.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Well said.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good story. Still,
there are a lot of people who never knew that America and still don't. Things need to change drastically to improve their lives.

Poverty is climbing. You mention $20 per hour in the 1970s. The minimum wage today is $7.25. That is atrocious.

Along with increasing the minimum wage, there needs to be a drastic change along the lined of this suggestion by Robert Reich:

<...>

The most direct way to get more money into their pockets is to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit (a wage subsidy) all the way up through people earning $50,000, and reduce their income taxes to zero. Taxes on incomes between $50,000 and $90,000 should be cut to 10 percent; between $90,000 and $150,000 to 20 percent; between $150,000 and $250,000 to 30 percent.

And exempt the first $20,000 of income from payroll taxes.

Make up the revenues by increasing taxes on incomes between $250,000 to $500,000 to 40 percent; between $500,000 and $5 million, to 50 percent; between $5 million and $15 million, to 60 percent; and anything over $15 million, to 70 percent.

And raise the ceiling on the portion of income subject to payroll taxes to $500,000.

<...>









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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. One of the things that bother me the most is pitting middle-class against middle-class.
To see someone who says "They have ...... but I don't" makes me cringe because it is what the Big Boys want us to do to each other. Instead of working together to get a good living wage and health care so many are still in a Faux state of mind that "you" don't deserve a good quality of life because I don't have it, while the Big Boys laugh the asses off! Sick, Sick, Sick!

Gary Horton: Pitted against ourselves unwittingly
Posted: March 2, 2011 1:55 a.m.

http://www.the-signal.com/section/33/article/41235/


....Today, rich economic masters lead a charge against the ever-shrinking, ever-suffering American middle class. And like gamecocks conditioned and pitted against their own, Americans have been turned against ourselves, fighting against our own interests, manipulated and controlled by powers outside our ring we do not fully see and do not fully understand.

“Deficit reduction at any cost!” is the mantra that resonates today. “Reduction at any cost” of course, save actually reinstating the taxes on the wealthy, which are essential to actually solving deficits.

“Cut public services, cut medical, cut education and slash social safety nets — all cuts needed,” trumpets the power elite. Beaten down after four years of recession, we’re beginning to believe “This is just the way things are.”

Yet over the past two decades, the richest 1 percent has amassed previously unimaginable wealth, controlling more than 40 percent of the financial wealth of the nation. Meanwhile, the middle class has grown stagnant, and is sinking.

(more at link)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Your post reminds me of this toon on a kpete thread.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Oh so terribly true! Sad! n/t
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
37. +100
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
42. Most working people THINK they are
"middle Class", but realistically, they are not. They attack their fellow workers that do earn a living wage. Out of jealousy and encouragement from the elite (who steal their earnings to finance their luxurious lifestyles). We elected a leader that we thought would stop this thievery and restore some equity to average Americans. With the LEGAL buying of politicians, I don't see how, short of a (peaceful) revolution, this will change. America will continue this race to the bottom unless WE UNITE and take to the streets in huge numbers.
We must have a defined goal(s) or Anarchy will ensue.
We need(ed)to begin immediately drafting the changes that we require. Like the brave people of WI, we have to be ready for the long haul.
We can not reverse 40 years of oppression in a day...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
77. Pitting middleclass against poor doesn't bother you?
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. Why would you think I don't? I didn't say anything like that in my post. I think what I said goes
completely across all middle-class and poor because those who are attacking anyone who have benefits of any kind are being attacked by the rich. Whether it be health insurance, government or private, or even vacation time. They are brain washing people to think if I don't have it then no one deserves anything.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. That is what you don't understand, and Madison should be illustrating this to you.
All the "solidarity" is about the middleclass.. it does NOT automagically transfer to the poverty class. Surely you can see that.

All the "progressive" media are talking solely about "middleclass"... we poor people are left out, and ignoring that only sets us up to be the ones taking the brunt of it.

There is NO bridge between the middleclass and poor people. UNless people like you make that happen.

Are YOU telling the middleclass protesters to include the poverty budget cuts in their protests???
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Let me say this, if there are no more middle-class there will be less and less help for the poor in
Edited on Fri Mar-04-11 02:21 PM by 1776Forever
our country. It is the middle-class who pay the majority of the taxes that help the poor and believe me I have been there with 5 children and a disabled husband for over 20 years when I was younger. I also have one son who has MS and only gets SSI and food stamps and without that he would not have any quality of life. So don't think I am for ANY cuts! Peace to you and know that most of us here are never going to be against the poor in our country.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Ah, yes, the middleclass come first because they are our protectors.
See, you admit that what I told you is in fact true... the muddleclass really doesn't give a damn.

IF you see it firsthand, then why aren't you heavily involved in fighting the cuts?
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Blessings to you. I hope you know that we do care or we woulnd't be here. n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. It isn't just me. Thousands of poor people are very depressed at all of this.
If you are willing to take action, there will shortly be a chance for that, and your participation would be very welcome and much appreciated!
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. I would be very glad to do that. n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. thank you!
I am still sick, and there is too much mucus on my brain.

If I somehow space out writing to you about what we are doing, would you please send me a PM?

I am seriously crashing...

Thanks for your willingness!! :yourock:
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Yes I will check it out in a few days if I don't see your post. Take care. n/t
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. I think triage is in order , take care of the people that are starving and dying first
The middle class tends to largely ignore us except when they ask for support promising some sort of trickle down reciprocity.

I am not buying it anymore.
Unity goes both ways.

you would treat a broken arm and let a man bleed to death while waiting. it is a whole nother kind of class warfare.

The same bully that is breaking arms is also killing people, yet the rage is only about the broken arms with only the promise that a strong middle class will magically raise the boats of the poor.

It is so simple that to not see it is in my mind willfull blindness.

This post will anger you but not for the reasons you think it does.
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. If there is nothing to give anymore how can one give anything back? n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. The only ones who have nothing to give are those who are bankrupt in compassion.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #88
97. You have said this so very well! EXCELLENT!
The visual imagery is stunning.. and a much truer picture of reality.

Thank you so much for this.. your words from the heart are so important!

:hug: :grouphug:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Horse with no Name.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. I will never understand
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 12:29 PM by Tsiyu

how America has sunk so low.

How in the hell do billionaires - who have more than they can ever use in fifty lifetimes - get to tell us that we are the greedy ones because we expect a decent wage and benefits?

How is it esteemed when they fight for tax breaks and subsidies and bailouts, but we're evil if we want to negotiate to make enough to just get by?

Where in the Constitution is it written that negotiating for more $$$ is fine for the wealthiest but evil when done by the poor and middle class?

Where in history is it noted that money is a holy thing to collect if you already have a perverse amount of money, but money is an evil thing to desire if you're poor or working class?

Why have we turned CEOs into royalty and turned cops, teachers and firefighters into "slobs" and "thugs" and "greedy" people?

it makes no sense in a "free" society for ANYONE to hold these opinions, yet this double standard is offered up as absolute fact here in the US.



What the hell happened?

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Television
Edited on Wed Mar-02-11 12:53 PM by JHB
OK, that's reductionist, there are a number of factors, but one that I think needs some more awareness is how the shift to political advertising on television contributed to the current situation.

Politics has always involved money, but the rise of television ads as the primary means of spreading campaign messages in the 70s put rocket boosters on that problem. The need to get money for ads, and the sort of campaign strategies that evolved from that situation, gave a lot of strength to monied interests who could write those campaign donation checks. Especially at a time when changing demographics and economic problems weakened other sources, like urban political machines.

Since then, more and more money has poured into campaigns, and the bulk of that is used to fund political TV ads. It encouraged strategies that wrote off any action in some areas (effectively abandoning any local presence) in order to concentrate ads in "higher value" areas. And it put politicians into permanent fundraising mode.

This is one of the things that needs to be addressed if we're ever going to reduce the influence of money in our politics.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. You know, I also try to blame the collapse of the Fairness Doctrine


in public broadcasting as a cause, but that can't explain all of it.

It's like the American poor and working class have owned the shame the Rightwing scoundrels try to place on them. How did we come to hate ourselves so much, and to accept the perverted hoarding of the top 1%?

Why did we start accepting the notion that money is really, really dirty and we should not negotiate for more of it? Why did we decide wanting to eat and desiring to have adequate shelter and health care are signs of OUR greed?

Why did we begin accepting the notion that people like the Kochroach brothers DESERVE their profane wealth and tax breaks and subsidies THEY negotiated for?

Why? Media sold the story, but shouldn't we have cared enough about ourselves and our neighbors to reject it?

Money is dirty and we shouldn't want any "for the good of our nation." We should all be happy to be wage slaves and homeless "for the good of our nation." Meaniwhile, for the "good of our nation" we must esteem the hoarded wealth of the top 1%

We buy it hook, line and sinker, like abused spouses.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. The 1996 Telecommunication Deregulation Act
drove the final nail in the coffin.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. So true.
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a kennedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. my heart just breaks for what we as a nation have become....
:cry: :cry: :cry:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Your heart is in good company



:pals:



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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
67. Propaganda, 7x24. And now with the Citizens United decision they can
shift into high gear. First step now is to fully discredit and immobilize the unions. Next they will be coming for the non-union taking them further down. Eliminate all public support systems. We're racing to the bottom. The future will make this look like the good times.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. Well said! nt
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. Who Will Buy The Stuff That The Corporations Sell?.......
If wages go lower and lower how will people be able to buy the stuff that the corporations sell? It seems we are in this downward spiral and the breaking point is when no one is able to afford what is being sold and only buy the barest minimum to get by. Can't afford a car. Can't afford a house. Can't afford new appliances. Can't afford to treat themselves to a night at the movies, or go to a restaurant, or go on vacation. Get by with older clothes instead of keeping up with fashion.

And guess what - if people won't be buying they won't be paying any sales tax. Property tax. Hotel taxes. If people won't be buying - there is no need to replenish stock - so more people will be laid off or fired.

Then what begins to suffer - more of our government programs, roads, services, etc.

This is the path we are going down and I can't understand why the corporations/businesses can't see that this is the result of their greed. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Really - the road out of this is jobs. Putting people back to work. Let them earn a decent days pay. Once people start feeling better about their financial situation and themselves - everything else falls in line. They start going to the movies, to a restaurant or on vacation. They buy a new car. They buy a house. They buy appliances. They buy fashionable clothes.

They start paying taxes again. Towns, cities, counties, states, and the federal government begins to feel the ease in pressure as they are taking in money to again service the people.

Jobs and employment and a decent wage is the engine out of this mess we are in.

How can those in power not see this?

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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They can only think more, more, more, ad nauseum. Their fortunes came from us, We the People.
I buy used whenever possible to keep money out of their hands, plus I'm broke. :)

Why do the wealthy get to decide what is needed for the poorer citizens to survive?

Their loss of profits will end up on our backs, through higher costs and even more will suffer.

Why are they allowed to pollute the hell out of the world's environment when they have to live here too? Maybe they have a secret escape from the planet plan we haven't discovered yet.

It truly boggles the mind. :crazy:
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You know why they can't see this.........
They're blinded by greed. Capitalism is fueled by greed. When you have a system that's fueled by greed, THEY CAN'T EVEN SAVE THEMSELVES! Now, they'll tell themselves that they don't need to US consumer because they've got the world, but it boils down to greed. Don't forget that profits are at RECORD levels, even though real unemployment is at 15%+. There's profit (greed) in unemployment. And that's leaving out the raping of the enviriorment.


The only way to save ALL of us, INCLUDING THE CAPITALISTS, is to change over to some sort of socialist system as soon as practically possible. Leave the small businesses and profit sharing worker co-ops to satisfy the profit motive and nationalize the rest. It's the only way.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I agree with you. I recently "came out" as a democratic socialist myself.
and my wingnut and teabagger acquaintances can go screw themselves if they don't like it. It's the only really just and fair economic system there is, and the only one that won't self-destruct eventually.

Re "The only way to save ALL of us, INCLUDING THE CAPITALISTS, is to change over to some sort of socialist system as soon as practically possible. Leave the small businesses and profit sharing worker co-ops to satisfy the profit motive and nationalize the rest. It's the only way."


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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. There are more and more of us every day Raksha
With every Republican Party overreach, with every OVERT move to disempower the working class/poor in favor of the rich, with every OBVIOUS move to the right by all of our politicians no matter WHAT their party affiliation, we grow.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
50. They don't need the American consumer -
exactly. This is the job Obama has been doing for the elites (though it started with Clinton and NAFTA). There certainly is a "middle class" of higher income professionals worldwide (doctors, lawyers, technical workers, bank and ad execs etc...) - these are folks making at least one hundred grand a year. They are living the "middle class" lifestyle. They can buy homes and cars, pay their insurance premiums, maybe choose private schools and take vacations. And then there are the super rich globally, who own everything. A very, very small percentage of millionaires/billionaires with very high income, investments, inheritances. The professional class is not that big either (here in this country you'd look in the top 5% to find those folks).

Everyone else, worldwide, is a worker. That is 95% of the populace, worldwide, that lives paycheck to paycheck and are at the mercy of their employers. Anybody who maybe owns a little house and makes 50K a year or whatever - they probably are calling themselves middle class but struggling. There are a lot of folks hanging on by their teeth, sniping at other workers around them, and praying for their big break. Calling themselves "middle class" to make themselves feel better. Until workers worldwide realize this, face the truth about income inequalities, and band together we are stuck.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
68. +1, n/t
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
39. the top 20% has most of the money; that's who they'll sell to.
widely shared prosperity is not a requirement for a consumer economy.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
56. They see Mexico, and drool over the possibilities.
12 Families own, run, control, and offer political candidates for President on a rotating basis, and have ALL the political power and money in that soon-to-be failed state.

The problem is the moment this country stops immigration from the south, those countries will be in revolt...and the powers that be know it.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
57. Investors are their real customers.
Producing and selling shit is just their shell operation. The real money's on Wall Street.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #57
71. Exactly, why would anyone want to bother with a product and labor if they
can play the manipulative Wall Street game. Production and labor are a lot of work, and the net profit is not always that great. That's why these tax cuts are such a joke, those on the high end receiving tax cuts are not going to run about and create jobs, it will go into the market. The shit that goes on in this country is appalling. Even more apalling are those that believe it ...

"Beam me up Scotty, there's not much intelligent life here."

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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
80. China and India will buy...although we don't really make much here anymore
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. RE: your next to last paragraph; I believe they call..........
us "useless eaters". How's that for showing what they really think of us?
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Those dots are painful to read, Horse. Gas went from 3.40 to 3.50 here today.
It will be awhile before things get any easier, quite awhile I'm afraid. But first things will become even worse, I agree completely. It is coming in the near future.

The propaganda machine has been very productive for them, and they are so much better at 'branding' than decent human beings.

Excellent OP, thank you for sharing! :hi:
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rbixby Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. Funny how prices for ANYTHING haven't gone down
since this union busting started, with the intention of lower prices for consumers.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. guess we need another triangle fire, but
it will happen in china, so it's all good.


bizness forgot ford paying a living wage so his employees could BUY a ford. but hey, we got plastic now. debt is just as good as a living wage. right? right!?!
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is a Depression.....
'Great Recession' my ass.

I've been following commondity prices....and they are going through the roof.

It used to be that when there was a Global Scare like we are seeing in the MENA, investors would flock to the US Dollar and buy Treasuries.

Not this time. Investors are buying Gold and Silver....and other commodities.

This is just the beginning of the Crisis and the Depression. Just wait until the Dollar is devalued.

And you're right....there will be people dying in the streets. I've already seen older women begging for money in the nicer shopping areas. We are living The Decline of the American Empire.

I am very happy for the people of the MENA who are fighting for their freedom and liberty. We should do the same....because what we have now is fascism.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
69. Many of us have been living in a depression, it's always been a depression, the
slight of hand, smoke and mirrors and the rest of the BS gets aired by MSM and some people are fools enough to believe it ...

What are there, something like 54 million Americans in poverty, I'm sure they see it as the good times right around the corner. About 25% of children go hungry each day. Real unemployment is about 18-20%. Social cuts are continuing, more on the way.

And if you're old, oh, just go get a job, there are soooooo many hiring people in their 70's with full health care. I hate to say it, but this country needed another 8 years of Bush. It hasn't sunk far enough yet for many to get a grip on what's going on.

Yep, life is great. Many live in depression, mental, financial or both.

I don't see many happy people running around, most people realize their turn is coming. Only happy people I see is on HGTV, where everyone runs out and buys a $500K condo.

This is like a bad 50's sci-fi movie.

Exactly as you said, 'Great Recession' my ass, ... this is a Depression.



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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. I can't stand those people
on HGTV...especially the ones who are buying property in another country. I had to quit watching.

They should have a show called "How to fix up your refrigerator box home." Or "Cooking for 4 on $10/day."

I could host that last one!

It's difficult to have any hope for the future....and I understand what you mean by having W around for a few more years. We have yet to hit bottom.

If Bernanke keeps printing money, we won't be able to afford food. Never mind gas.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. K & R - connecting the dots can be uncomfortable,
but it's a hell of a lot better than NOT connecting them. It's good to see that the rest of America (outside of DU) is finally starting to wake up. Once everyone sees we're all in the same trap, we can take steps to get out of it.

"I could have freed a lot more if only they had realized they were slaves." I'm pretty sure it was Harriet Tubman who said that. But whoever said it, it was too good to leave out.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. What a beautiful, personal post. Thanks for sharing this.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. great post.
sums it all up rather neatly.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. Excellent.
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. $20/hr then is about $80/hr (or thereabouts) now. Really! nt
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. $20 is still considered good pay in the South... 35 years later. nt
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
59. My point was - $20/hr in a grocery store in the 70's when min wage was
very much (waaaay very much) lower than that. That is borderline unbelievable, hence the 'Really!'
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. She was in management. And seriously, I don't care if you believe or not
:D
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
89. A Union member in "management"? That's a bit, ummm, confusing...
:shrug:
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. kr
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
33. March 30, 2011.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. KNR! n/t
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
38. Huge K&R. Thank you. n/t
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
40. Great post
Very well put and spot on!
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
41. Nicely written, Horse.
And very accurate.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
44. K&R! nt
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
46. Why would you move to Texas? n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
47. This is why asshole walkers bill fails...
here in texas we have no unions. It's a right to hire state, yet we are 27 billion in the hole.

bottom line: years of repuke mismanagement and squashing the worker and middle class. And brain washing the halfwits in this state that unions are bad.

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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
48. The poor have been dying in the streets for decades
Most Americans, Democrats included, were not paying attention. After all, it was "only" "drug users" and the "mentally ill" (no it wasn't, but that was how the story went) and if only we could get those people some mental health treatment, they'd magically be "okay".

The first wave of homelessness was always just the first wave of the neoliberal economic tsunami. And it was always much, much worse than most Americans imagined such poverty to be. Homelessness has been killing people, by the tens of thousands, all along. And it will go up to the hundreds of thousands, and even millions, unless people lose their deference and fear (inclusive of deference to the Democratic party, which has been the kinder, gentler, neoliberal party of money for a few years now) and make every American capitol a Madison, Wisconsin, until real people, and not money people, are back in control.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
83. You are absolutely correct, but your words are ignored.
It is too hard to look at ourselves and see that we are letting this happen.

Raygun deleted 417,000 people from disability, and there were many suicides, but they, also, were ignored.

The same is happening now, and it is again ignored.

When despots kill their own people, it is represhensible. But when a government that prides itself on being "clean" forces so many of its citizens to KILL THEMSELVES, that is beyond reprehensible. It is no longer in any way human.

And that is what we have become as a nation.

Thank you for stating it. Too bad it is ignored.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
53. We should also remember that teenagers made a Minimum Wage -- and it
was also enough to help the family, if necessary.

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Tamarack Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
54. Roll up your sleeves...
...if you support labor!

When I was a kid in the mid-seventies the paper mill that many of my friends parents worked at was being threatened with closure due to overseas competition. The workers volunteered to take pay cuts. Management asked them to go non-union and the employees said no. They would take the pay cuts but the union must remain.

During this time, everyone in town was asked to roll up their sleeves to support labor. Even as a kid, I remember how dramatic it was to see so many people with rolled up sleeves.

Unions are the healthy part of a healthy profit. They make sure that profit is not the only concern management has.

Unions are part of what makes America great.
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
55. The Plain Truth
This shared sacrifice BS is laughable. But the corporate networks are pushing it for all it's worth. CNN comments on the demonstration in Wisconsin and says "some are for this bill, some against" - like it's 50-50.

My local paper in Columbus this morning has a big color photo of the few people backing Kasich's plans.

The Oligarchy depends on people being brainwashed by Fox and people like Rush and Beck, and/or being more focused on "American Idol" - amd just not able or willing to actually think and connect the dots. They surely don't get help from people such as CNN, who will not call out people for their lies and propaganda.
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
58. The other side of the coin
In 1970, a 100 foot long power yacht was a really big deal, even to rich people. Having a 150 foot long one meant you were one of the PTB. I knew the guy who owned the largest sailboat at the Grosse Point Yacht Club in the 1970s - it was a 50 foot Hinckley. If you don't know yacht clubs, Grosse Point is one of the most prestigious ones (counting those not on the coasts).

Now, if you "only" own a 100 foot yacht, the rich laugh at you. I'm not exaggerating. There are several 400+ foot long yachts in private hands.

BTW, the cost of a yacht is GEOMETRIC with length, not linear.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
61. Who wants $8/hr doctors? Republicans! Who wants $8/hr nurses? Republicans!
Who wants $8/hr financial services reps guarding their wealth? Republicans! Who wants $8/hr food services people processing their food? Republicans! Who wants $8/hr firemen and cops protecting their homes from fire and theft? Republicans! Who wants $8/hr teachers edumacating their children? Republicans!

I take that back. They want $4/hr people doing all that.
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Zoeisright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
62. That is one of the best responses to the rich bastards I have EVER seen.
Thank you so much for this story. It may actually change some minds. At least, those not set in concrete.
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libmom74 Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
63. people are starting to notice and
organize in all 50 states and I think it's a good sign even if the MSM isn't really covering it (other than a mention on MSNBC), check out upcoming actions being planned by US Uncut. http://www.usuncut.org/actions/list
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
66. People HAVE been dying in the streets. But I keep getting told that it won't matter until
middleclass people are the ones dying in the streets.

By the way the current cuts against ACTUAL poor people are being ignored, I'm guessing what I have been told is correct.

So, good luck in following in our footsteps.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
70. Kick (too late to rec). This is the real story of America.
Starting wage for a package handler at UPS in 1986=8.50

Starting wage for a package handler at UPS in 2011=8.50

And that's a union gig, imagine the wage destruction going on in the "private-free market"!

I knew a lady from California and she also made over 15 an hour working as a cashier back in the early 90's. How people miss the demolition of wages, I don't get and those calling for more wage destruction because they think folks make too much (aka too close to their income for what they see as menial work) makes me "recycling Indian" sad, sick as a dog, and hot as a pistol.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
72. Some kids don't know that there was a time when
we had practically no homeless and the few there were had their needs mostly met by the Salvation Army and other shelters and soup kitchens. I had to have my car worked on this week and the kid in twenties, a mechanic who drove me home, was amazed when I told him there once were practically no homeless in this country. He was a first generation American of immigrants and told me that he grew up poor, but his family always provided them with a home and the necessities but he too believed that the homeless were just bums, the right wing propaganda meme. I hope I opened his eyes a little.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Excellent!!! n/t
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
79. Huge K&R
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
81. Go ahead, repukes. Kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
Once you've impoversihed us all, who will you bleed your billion$$$ in profits from?
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. We're expendable now
There's a global economy, with billions of new customers out there. American customers are a tiny fraction of the market now. We'll never matter again.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
90. We are not in their way....

They are in our way. And they are making it abundantly clear that the only way for us to resolve this is to use a bulldozer.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
91. In 1964 I graduated from high school and went to work in a union grocery store.
I was making $10 per hour. My dad co-signed for me to get a brand new 1965 Mustang GT. It cost around $3,000. I had a choice of an Olds 442, a Pontiac GTO, Chevy Monza convertible and the Mustang GT all for about the same price.

I played drums in a garage band and life was good until I got drafted!
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
95. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Think about "Take this job and shove it" and "Norma Rae" and the 70's era of the individual. That all got squashed when THEY got their man elected...Reagan.
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