It amazes me how people who clamored for electric vehicles have nothing but excuses now

[DainBramaged]

that they are out.


1) Too expensive

2) OMG if they break what am I going to do after the warranty runs out and those batteries are so EXPENSIVE OMG OMG OMG

3) OMG I have no place to plug them in if only there were more place to charge one

4) OMG they are just too expensive even though they are the first of their kind, but it's OK to buy a $25,000 hybrid made in japan.....

5) OMG the technology is too much for me to grasp (where is my IPad?)

6) OMG it's built by GM it has to be crap.


Excuses, the same reason our Party is up against the wall because of some assholes with teabags around their necks.

[woo me with science]

1. Itchin' for a fight today, huh?

:rofl:

[LynneSin]

2. People made the same excuses about Hybrid vehicles

In 5-10 years it'll be commonplace.

[DainBramaged]

3. Less time, first generations are always the most expensive

Look at the IPad......

Murray says hi.....:hi:

[Drale]

4. While my family is in the market for a new vehicle

we need something that can tow a trailer and right now an electric vehicle can not do that.

[DainBramaged]

5. Absolutely, they are not intended for HD use (not until say 2165)

[LynneSin]

7. Yes but they now have some serious size SUV as hybrids

Toyota now has hybrid in their Highlander and that thing is pretty huge.

It's a matter of time.

[DainBramaged]

8. Hydraulic Hybrid Vehicles

http://gas2.org/2008/10/28/ups-is-first-in-delivery-industry-to-test-hydraulic-hybrids/

[WingDinger]

9. There should be some diesel electrics made that operate like cargo container ships.

All electric propulsion, with plenty of grunt, and good mileage. MAybe even a turbine. Burn waste oil.

[nxylas]

I'd say at least two of those are valid reasons

Not everybody can afford an EV, and the infrastructure is not in place everywhere. I think both those things will change in a few years; the price will come down and there will be more charging stations.

[dmallind]

20. Challenge the paradigm

For once here "paradigm" actually fits.

Many of the silly obstacles to EVs are largely due to thinking about them as alternative ICEs that have to be managed in the same way. For example that there should be/needs to be a whole host of streetside refueling options everywhere because that's what we are used to.

This is at present totally impractical. Even exceptionally expensive 480v chargers take over 30 mins to refill a 100 mile range EV. Do you really think cross-country drivers would stop for 30 mins every 100 miles? Not only that but repeated high-speed charging will adversely affect the battery. Slower is better. But this is not a valid reason to reject EVs any more than a turn of the century lack of gas stations was a reason to reject ICEs. It's instead a reason to use them appropriately and NOT force them into a paradigm suitable for different technologies (early car drivers doubtless were concerned about the lack of "livery garages").

The vast majority of US drivers go less than 100 miles on a typical day - usually far less (the reason btw a used car with 36500 miles for every year of its life would not be considered to have usual mileage). We have more cars than people so certainly most multi-person families have multiple cars where one could be the long distance car (the Volt has a good niche here despite its much lower EV range, although hybrids may very well have better mileage on very frequent long trips - depends on how exclusive the long trip car can be. If you want to use a car for normal commuting 350+ days a year with a couple trips to grandsma's the Volt is ideal. If you spend every single weekend at a remote cabin 200 miles away or have to take frequent business trips by road a better mpg hybrid may be best). Thus the new paradigm should be to compartmentalize your driving based on range. If you live in rural Montana with a nearest grocery store 80 miles away EVs aren't for you yet - same for single commercial salespeople who must drive around large territories. But for multi-car families with more typical range needs there is no excuse beyond price (and the rebated Leaf price is substantially BELOW median for a new car) to not make one an EV for all commuting/errands. Even if you are a single car family you should seriously consider how many long trips you take. If it's a couple of vacations or visits a year you will probably find the gas savings are enough to pay for a rental a few times a year.

Example - 12k miles a year - Leaf at $3 per 100m/charge = $360 using 11-12c/kw national average.
Very economical car that averages 30mpg = 400 gallons = $1320 using national average of $3.30/gallon.

Even assuming you drive a car that averages 30mpg (not gets that at a steady 55) which few do that's $960 rental - a good 20 days of a full size car.

Heck let's say you are already a greenie and your alternative is a 50mpg Prius. You still buy 240 gallons a year and pay $792 for it - so you can rent a car for 10 days or so on gas savings alone. Getting close? Then add back in oil changes/filters and other ICE maintenance items EVs will lack. If you still do more than that difference in long distance driving AND only have one car AND make decisions only on pure $$ then - buy a Prius, or Fusion hybrid.

[AsahinaKimi]

6. Wasn't there one that was

7. OMG I can't run that in the Rain/Snow, it will short out! (Or..I will be electrocuted!)

[FSogol]

10. Vonnegut: "Earth, we could have saved it but, we were too damn cheap and too damn lazy."

:shrug:

[Mopar151]

11. You should know......

There are lots of "armchair experts" who think they know everything about what the rest of us ought to do. I live to make their heads explode.

Bumper sticker on my friend's (ex-Hacker Bros.!) Quad-4 442 " This car is a hybrid! It burns gas and rubber."

[Snoutport]

12. Full time teacher can't afford a new car....

I have a 96. I can't afford afford a new car...even with a full-time teaching job. I would LOVE an electric car!

[groundloop]

18. What, I thought tearchers were overpaid???

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:



Are you implying that the MSM and repukes lied to us?

[PBS Poll-435]

19. They do make 100K a year

:sarcasm:

[Snoutport]

39. 100K? I'm moving to your state!

I have to teach ten years here to make half that much!

[LWolf]

13. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford to buy a new car again.

At this point, I'm in "keep it as long as you can keep it on the road" mode.

If I can ever consider buying a new, or newer, vehicle, I'll be looking at electric, if it's in my purchase price range...which is something with no payment.

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. Pfft

Electric cars are not the answer to using less energy and reducing your carbon emissions. Electricity is an energy carrier, not an energy source; the energy to charge the batteries would have to come from a power plant, which is probably going to be coal-fired. Electric cars by and large still lack the range and battery capacity to replace internal combustion or hybrid vehicles for the average American commuter.

The answer, although no-one as yet wants to admit it, is a very radical shift in living patterns and lifestyles in the US that people aren't ready for. The US has locked itself into a path that leads into a cul-de-sac starting with the post-WWII construction of commuter suburbs and Interstate highways, and now it's much too late to reverse course without quite a lot of people feeling a considerable amount of economic pain.

[dmallind]

25. pfft pfft.

You I assume are fair and add in upstream energy costs for gas too, right? Or do you think it naturally bubbles up in a refined state under gas stations?

Now let's talk about energy efficiency in the drive systems. Heat dissipation is a great way to measure energy efficiency. If I drive for one hour at highway speeds in an EV then put my hand firmly on the motor for 30 seconds would you do the same on your ICE?

About that coal - here I am in the second most populous state in the nation and less than 1/7th of our power comes from coal. Hydro, nuclear and natural gas are all bigger.

And EV's can't manage the needs of the average US consumer. Why not? Do you think a used car with 36500 miles per year is average? Why then do leasing companies, the NHTSA and DOT etc all use 12-15k then - well within the 100 mile range of almost all current and planned EVs and even doable with the 40 miles of pure EV the Volt gates you before the ICE kicks in if you have a busy day now and then? Let's have a challenge to see if you can find one used car on Craigslist over that mileage for every 7-8 I can find under it...

Below is GM's chart showing one way commute distance. They used it to fix range at 40 miles. Personally I would prefer to see some miles for shopping/lunch/recreation which is why I personally favor 100 mile EVs, which are the norm. But given the usual dominance of work commuting in our car needs it still shows why few people need more than EV range very often.

[madmom]

15. I can't even afford to buy and old car, much less a new one.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

16. I woudl buy one today --

but I cannot afford a new car, any kind of new car. Plain and simple. So mnay of us who would happily drive/buy one are those who can least afford them. :(

[DainBramaged]

23. New cars, like everything else, have gotten way too pricey

and with the current gas 'crisis' the price of 4 cyl. cars at auction has jumped nearly 10% in 2 weeks. That is a lot!

[PBS Poll-435]

17. 15 years since the EV-1

The Volt is REVOLUTIONARY!

[Vinnie From Indy]

21. Which people are you referring to ?

While I love a good rant as much as the next guy, you have provided zero evidence that "people" are actually expressing these views. Your OP is a classic straw man argument. Set 'em up and knock 'em down!


Oh yes! We got trouble right here in River City!
It starts with P which rhymes with T
Oh yeah! We got trouble!

Cheers!

[DainBramaged]

22. Meh, meh and meh

just peruse the pages of DU, oh wait that's way too hard....


Merry Christmas

[snooper2]

24. Did you pick up your new Tacoma yet?

[S_E_Fudd]

26. Same with any new technology...

Early adopters will rave about the product...I've heard nothing but good things about the Volt...and eventually prices come down, demand goes up etc...

No different than with any new technology. How many could afford large HD TV's when they first came out?

[DainBramaged]

29. Computers, cell phones, calculators, DVDs, flat-screen TVs, and on and on

My first calculator was a four function Craig with red LCDs I bought in 1971 for $189.

[Modern_Matthew]

27. I'm going to be making about 11k a year. You want to buy me one? nt

[DainBramaged]

28. You aren't a customer in that price category, why would you comment?

20 years from now, you should be able to find a used one for a couple of thousand, if we haven't descended into chaos.

[woo me with science]

33. Put 'em up! Put 'em up!

I'll fight ya with one paw behind my back! :rofl:

[joshcryer]

42. Not really, when electric cars read end of lifecycle the batteries will be worth more than the car.

[GoneOffShore]

30. And effing batteries - how do they work?

Or more to the point - what do you do with them when they finally do break down?
Huge environmental hazard there.

[jp11]

34. They can be recycled.

[Initech]

31. I'm buying a Ford Fusion Hybrid.

I'd love to get a Leaf or a Volt but with as much as I drive they're not practical.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. You know we WERE in the market for a new vehicle

we even looked at electrical... but the job situation right now pretty much means the 18 year old truck will have to serve for at least another five years.

So by the time that happens we might be able to

1.- afford one

2.- convince the HOA to allow us to install the charging station in the garage (This brings me into the major infrastructure issues)

3.- Range\ Charge will be better.

Oh and perhaps the solar panels will be on the roof, meaning that FOR REAL we will cut down on our footprint.

[Vinca]

35. Unless money comes out of the sky on a flaming pie, I'll be keeping

the 9 year old Rav for many, many moons. Too poor to buy a battery, let alone an electric car.

[Drew Richards]

36. Electric cars are worthless

Sorry I am one of those people...

I wanted to see electric cars become standard but, With no infrastructure and lobbying by the Oil companies to block EV subsidies for building an infrastructure...pure EV vehicles are worthless except for short jaunts to the store...

Now when you can pull the road blocks out of the Oil companies lobbying firms blocking all the Diesel Hybrids that already get 60-90 MPH then we can talk about possible EV's finding a spot...Until then?

Well I am waiting for the new Mazda Sky-D engine(2013 maybe) (no urea jug required) slapped in a hybrid then I'll buy two :)
Or maybe VW will finally update their 500 pound boat anchor of a diesel and make an economical light weight hybrid...

Drew

[uppityperson]

37. Until it is affordable, I cannot buy one. My cars are always 10 yrs old, can't afford new

I am glad they're available for those who can afford them, will be very happy when they get affordable.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. The Volt will not be here until the fall...

and we do not have any Leaf's yet either...and when I can I would like a Volt.

[Curmudgeoness]

40. We all know that the newest technologies are priced out of reach

for the ordinary people of the country. It is not that we don't want this technology, but we have to wait for the price curve to come down to our level. It started, and that is significant. Price will come down, more places will be able to work on them, the battery prices will level off. And then more people will be able to buy them.

But I may be full of shit. I have been waiting for solar power for personal use to become more affordable for years and years (at least 40 years).

[DearAbby]

41. I am driving a 15 yr old car

Paid for and Praying to god the sucker doesn't break down, I have no way to turn lose of that much money right now, with the current economy. SOME OF US the "TOO EXPENSIVE" is a valid fucking reason.

[spanone]

43. that's d.u. on every subject

[gratuitous]

44. It's tough, but I'm persevering

My target is to bicycle commute 85% of my work days this year. But then, when someone succeeds in weaning themselves off the gasoline teat, the response is often quite the same as the phenomenon Jesus noticed in Luke 7:34, which boils down to "damned if you do, and damned if you don't."

[BlackHoleSon]

45. 2011 Hyundai Elantra

gets up to 47 MPG highway - they use plenty of new technology to get the most they can out of each drop of gas. I test drove it and it is exceptional.
For those of us who don't live in urban areas the EV's just aren't practical. The Nissan Leaf range leaves me about 20 miles short on my commute.
The Volt might be an option for me but can I get a tax credit for it that would make it remotely affordable for me?
I agree with folks that the bridge to true electric is going to require big tax incentives #1 and the use of diesel hybrids #2 until they can get the pure electric vehicle range up about another 40 miles a charge.

[robcon]

46. The cars seem to be crap. I wouldn't buy one.

n/t