So how come the Catholic schools can do better than the public schools?

[Karmadillo]

These people live in fear we will wake up.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh122210.shtml#DAUGHTER

<edit>

Matthews and Rhee were pounding away in wholly predictable fashion. Matthews has always been a tool, a mouthpiece for billionaire owners and interests; he slaved for Jack Welch in the Clinton-Gore years, still slaves to power today. As such, he played the minion to billionaire power when he and Rhee spoke about low-income schools on his low-IQ cable “news” program.

All standard villains were named and blamed—especially the nation’s loathsome teachers, with their infernal unions (see THE DAILY HOWLER, 12/21/10). Per well-established establishment scripts, Matthews was sure that Rhee had done all the right things when she headed the DC schools—although he has never wasted a moment’s time on such lower-class topics.

<edit>

MATTHEWS: So my daughter went to a very good Catholic school in Washington, Georgetown Visitation. She goes to the University of Pennsylvania and realized she’s ahead of the kids there, at a great Ivy League school. So how come the Catholic schools can do better than the public schools?

<edit>

In fact, Georgetown Visitation Preparatory School is one of the toniest private schools in DC. It’s attended by daughters of various swells. That doesn’t mean there’s anything “wrong” with the school; we’d assume it’s a wonderful place, with lots of decent students and teachers. But a quick glance at the school’s web site shows us that this is no typical Catholic school. “The campus is located on over 20 wooded acres in the heart of Georgetown,” the web site solemnly states. And people! That isn’t all!
•A low student-faculty ratio of 13:1 ensures that each student is challenged, nurtured and guided to achieve her highest potential.
•Students may choose from among many advanced placement courses and a variety of honors courses as well as independent study options, including study at neighboring Georgetown University.
•With four state-of-the-art computer labs, an LCD projector in every classroom and individualized web portals for every student, Visitation is a leader in teaching with technology.
•100% of our graduates attend college; college counselors with a broad network of connections with college admissions directors guide students and their parents through the college selection process.

more...

[SharonAnn]

1. Student's families self-select the school. Parents who want high achievement

look for schools that provide a rigorous environment for that.

Also, these are families with means so the children don't go hungry, have adequate clothing, get adequate sleep, live in a stable home environment, have parents who hold them accountable for attending school and doing their homework.

[Johonny]

7. pretty much

[Cosmocat]

36. FAMILY, FAMILY, FAMILY ...

Schools can only do so much, teachers can only do so much ...

The make or break with 95% of kids is their own inherent abilities combined with the family ...

People who send their kids to Catholic schools generally are people who have their shiite together, and these kids likely would be successful in most any setting ...

Public schools get the full range, including the kids who don't have much ability and the MANY kids from families with neither the natural interest in achievement or the setting to foster it with their children ...

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Parents are paying tuition so there's a buy in

They make their kids behave, which minimizes disruptions.

I taught in Catholic schools. I can't count how many times a parent told one of my students "I'm not writing a check to this school every month for you to come up here and act a fool!"

That's why.

[liberalhistorian]

3. Not just that, but, like all private schools,

they can pick and choose their students. Public schools MUST accept ALL students regardless of disability, needs, or ability. And they are required, under the IDEA Act, to provide a "free, appropriate education" for any disabilities. Private schools can not only be selective, but they don't have to follow IDEA. And they aren't also saddled with unfunded mandates as well.

[DBoon]

5. you can always make the average look better by getting rid of the bottom 10%

nt

[Little Star]

14. Double Bingo!

[elehhhhna]

34. COincidentally, this was JAck Welch's claim to CEO fame: cut the botton 10% every year.

[Deep13]

8. bingo. nt

[blueamy66]

24. Exactly.

I went to Catholic School for 13 years.

We BEHAVED! And paid attention. No foolishness was allowed.

It's about time the public schools follow suit.

[liberalhistorian]

39. Do you honestly think the public schools don't try

to do just that? Catholic and private schools can pick and choose their students and they have much more leeway discipline-wise. Public schools don't have either luxury.

[LuckyLib]

33. Plus, virtually every private school tests applicants ahead of time to make sure they aren't saddled

with students who might arrive way behind in the basics, or might have a severe learning or cognitive disability.

[DBoon]

4. Catholic schools dump their problem students into the public school system

I spent 12 years in the Catholic school system

It seems almost every year there was some kid who was "not invited back" and ended up in public schools

It's a lot easier to teach when you can just get rid of troublesome kids

[FLyellowdog]

17. Sooooo true.

I taught in public schools for over 25 years and welcomed every student into my class regardless of his/her background, parental support (or lack thereof), health issues, IQ, degree of willingness to learn, etc. In other words, in spite of any baggage the child brought with him/her.

"Problem" students (you know, the ones who are most difficult to love but need it the most) were just a normal part of our rosters.

No private school that I know of operates under those conditions. When a school can pick and choose it's students, it's easy to show good results. If it doesn't, something's bad wrong. Kind of like if you have the best ingredients, the quality of cake you get is pretty good. Granted,you have to be able to know how to bake but even a novice cook can get good results when everything being used is top notch.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents. :hi:

[blueamy66]

25. Pick and Choose?

If a student misbehaves and/or breaks the rules, they SHOULD be kicked out....from either a Catholic or a public school. It has nothing to do with picking and choosing....it's about enforcing RULES.

[FLyellowdog]

26. No, actually students apply to private schools

and either are chosen to attend or not. That's called pick and choose any way you cut it.

As for getting kicked out of public schools for misbehaving...dream on. Only the worst of the worst get expelled and that may or may not be permanent depending on their age. Alternate schools are available but usually only as a temporary suspension and the student returns to his regular school.

I'd be interested to know how many years you've spent teaching in the classroom. Maybe your experiences were different from mine. Everyone has a different story to tell.

[Angry Dragon]

40. And after the kids are kicked out of a pulic school

are you going to help them learn??

[Jakes Progress]

6. If I were a doctor

and only accepted young, healthy patients, should my record be compared to doctors who take all patients?

This is an easy one.

[Tatiana]

13:1 student faculty ratio. Says it all right there.

And that's faculty. Student to teacher ration is probably like 12:1

I bet if teachers in urban areas only had to deal with 12 or 13 students per class instead of up to 35 students per classroom, we'd see a lot more direct, 1 on 1 instruction and improved achievement.

[Locrian]

9. $$

Not the only thing, but how much $$$ does is "cost" for private catholic school?

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. It varies

Here they start at $7500.

[Drale]

10. My cousin went to a catholic college prep high school

I went to the public high school, as of now my cousin has switched colleges like 3 times, and has no idea what is going on in the real world. I on the other hand am right on track in college and know whats going on in real life. Whos better off?

[dd2003]

13. went to a catholic prep

Although not catholic, I believe I am better off from it. Growing up in Los Angeles can be a very difficult environment to succeed in some public schools so parents who have means dont take that chance.

[Drale]

27. Had we not moved from the inner city of chicago when I was 6

I probably would have gone to a private school as well.

[rfranklin]

12. The tuition is probably over $25,000 per year...

and if they have trouble they hire special tutors.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Not here it isn't

That's pretty steep for this area.

[rfranklin]

18. don't know which area you refer to...

I was guessing in reference to Georgetown.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Midwest

Not as high here.

[NotThisTime]

37. Not at all true... our local C. HS was around 10 grand a year and IMHO was inferior....

Large class sizes, I didn't feel the academics were that rigorous, the only thing we could be assured of was they'd kick out the kids who misbehaved, or well the worst of those anyways... It looks like we cannot say all Catholic schools work the same way as the one in Georgetown demonstrates.... however, at that price point with those class ratio's I'd damn well expect the kids to pack their brains and be expected to & yes, parents of those kids at that price point pay for tutors when they are needed....

Matthews was trying to take an above average Catholic school to that of an inner city D.C. school, where and how is that a fair comparison? But I would argue that overall a Catholic education doesn't guarantee a good education by a long shot...

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. It's because of God!

God likes teachers with weak unions and favors school admins that pay low slaries and next-to-no benefits.

God. That's why.

[somone]

19. FWIW - NYC atheist donates $30 million to inner-city Catholic schools

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/article.asp?article=1621

[SouthernLiberal]

21. It's a false comparison

Because there is one Catholic oriented school that outperforms many public schools (I'm pretty sure that some public schools didn't send a single student to the University of Pennsylvania. Some probably sent students to even more competitive colleges) does not mean that all Catholic schools do better than all public schools. His 'evidence' shows that one Catholic school graduate thinks she is better prepared than the small subset of public high school graduates she has encountered.

Of course, every one here at DU probably knew that already.

[Luciferous]

22. I went to a Catholic school for K-8 and when I went to a public school

for 9th I was ahead of the kids in my class. However, the school I went to was NOT an expensive school... maybe 2,000 a year. I think it had more to do with small class sizes and their teaching style than the amount of money spent.

[Dappleganger]

23. Same here...

ours wasn't as expensive if you were a member of the local diocese, either. I'm also convinced that smaller class sizes made a huge difference.

[angstlessk]

35. I too went to Catholic school..and skipped school in the first grade to go to my cousins public

school...hey I was precocious ... anyway...MY first grade spent the day learning...but maybe because THEIR teacher knew I was an 'illegal immigrant' to her school she choose to be entertaining? They SANG their attendance...of course I was left off, and raised my hand when asked if anyone was not called upon..DUH!!!

I was quickly discovered to be an 'undercover Catholic'...and my parents were called..and when I showed up at my REAL school...seems my desk was lost and I was forced to share with some BOY!!...The entire day I wondered what HE did wrong to have me sit with him...:)

This is a true story...not to mention the bus trip I took when I was four!

[Brickbat]

28. Families self-select into the system, and then the school itself can refuse or drop students as it

wishes.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[bluestate10]

29. Public schools have to let everyone in.

Even children from homes where parents do not care about their child's education. Private schools can select based upon ability to pay and desire to learn. Any comparison of public and private schools is like comparing an orange to a rock. A more pertinent question is what is the ratio of privately educated to publicly educated individuals that have made enormous contributions to society, contributions of the level of an Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, or Henry Ford?

[tinymontgomery]

30. I think it is because the Nuns could smack the

heck out of your hands with that 18 inch ruler. :sarcasm: kind of. Catholic school 1-8, 1960 to 1970. A few of my former fellow students were discussing the hardest hitting nun on facebook recently. Actually I also did one year in catholic high school and my parents pulled me out since they said "this schools not doing anything for you, your shifting to public hs". Turned out all right in the long run.

[SoCalDem]

31. Many reasons...here are a few

uniforms (can't tell the rich from the poor)
Discipline
tuition
parental responsibility


y'know..like just about ANY "private" school that parents & students are involved with.. It costs out-of-pocket/out-of-budget money and parents want & expect results for their hard earned money, and students know that if they screw up, they will get thrown out.

and in many (most?) the emphasis is NOT on sports & extra-curricular stuff..

[Elmore Furth]

32. Heard of the phrase 'cherry picking'?

If you can select your students and then expel troublesome students, it makes your outcomes look better.

[pipi_k]

38. On Catholic Schools only getting the "best" students...

Until this September, all three of my grandkids attended the same Catholic School. My son and his wife decided that they would downsize a bit and try to save money by putting the two girls in public school.

My daughter's son is still going.

The girls didn't really have any issues before starting school the first time. Interesting thing, and probably non unexpected...they are ahead of their respective public school classmates. The first-grader is at a second-grade level. The fourth-grader is at fifth-grade level.

The boy had big issues. Overprotected...very shy...unwilling to socialize...some very minor learning disabilities. The school took him anyway, and I have to say they've absolutely done wonders with him. He's like a whole different kid.

A few things about the school...it's from K to 8, somewhat small. Teachers are all female (not that it has much to do with anything, probably) and they are not nuns. The classes are small. The teachers pretty much know all the students in the school, and the principal does too.

My daughter wanted her son to go to this school, and I supported her wish. Her husband didn't want him to go there. If my grandson had NOT gone to the Catholic School, I honestly believe he would have been left to sink or swim in the public school system.

So it may or may not be true that Catholic Schools, as a rule, get only the "better" students, but in this case, I know for a fact that my grandson was not an ideal student, but they took him anyway, and have probably turned his life around.

[susanr516]

41. Have to agree that private schools can pick and choose students

The Catholic schools in my area also require parental involvement as a condition of enrollment. Many of them specify that parents volunteer a minimum of 30 hours per year. Public schools don't have that option.