Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

[Avant Guardian]

Source: CBS News

Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief. He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico? "Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."

An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.

Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United States.

Dodson's bosses say that never happened. Now, he's risking his job to go public.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml?tag=contentBody%3BfeaturedPost-PE

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This is sooooo baaaaaaad!

[DURHAM D]

1. I would like to know when this "walking" plan was implemented. nt

[jpak]

2. This is an NRA/GOP smokescreen to prevent the ATF from monitoring Mexican cartel gunrunning

in border states

90% of the guns Mexican authorities have recovered from crime scenes come from US gun/shops shows.

The NRA/GOP voted to prevent the ATF from monitoring multiple gun sales in US border states.

Fuck the NRA

Fuck the GOP

yup

[former9thward]

3. Smokescreen?

One of the ATF guns was used to murder a U.S. boarder agent. I wonder if his family agrees with your 'smokescreen' assessment.

[jpak]

4. Yes, a smokescreen for the thousands of Mexicans that have been killed by US gun shop/show guns

Something the NRA/GOP wants you to forget

yup

[bossy22]

5. or

maybe it was an agency fudging their numbers in order to justify their budget. Wouldnt be the first time something like this happens. When they try to cut police officers- some how there is always a rash of drug crimes.

an ATF agent is coming out and saying this- not the NRA/GOP

and this wouldnt be surprising coming from ATF. ATF over the last 10 years has been a quagmire of an agency- no real mission and considerably underfunded as well (due to their lack of a true mission). Why would it surprise you that they may be inflating these statistics in order to justify their existence

[Ken_Fish]

9. Pfftt, thats the sound of a pantload. its budget time..

numbers like those the agent spoke about keep people budgets off the block. Justify head count.

That agent is now a whistle blower, lets see what his testimony does.

[one-eyed fat man]

39. Here's another ATF smoke screen

That started out as a big media event. Busloads of agents on a "top secret" raid accompanied by TV camera crews. Timed with another budget fight in Congress.

The ATF agents responsible over that were "fired" and quietly brought back two years later and promoted. Guess where they are now?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bossy22]

7. btw that 90% stastic is a myth

its 90% of those guns that were submitted for tracing

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/counting_mexicos_guns.html

im waiting for you to explain to me how factcheck is some GOP/NRA shadow organization

[jpak]

18. President Obama was the source of this "myth" - It is the GOP/NRA that lies

yup

[bossy22]

19. and pres obama is god?

he can never be wrong?

You still havent challenged the Factcheck assertion- and Factcheck isnt a GOP/NRA organization

[Ken_Fish]

20. Dude, its a flat lie. Some idiot on his staff wrote it up and did not check it..

and when it was published the media checked it and found it to be inaccurate. By continuing to post this you are not being truthful.

it has been shown by multiple sources that have been posted to your comments to be false.

Why continue to spread misinformation?

[MyrnaLoy]

8. it's actually a diversion

whether or not the ATF let the guns go or not we NOW KNOW FOR CERTAIN that guns from America kill people in Mexico. The NRA people want to focus on what the ATF did but that's not the important part. The part to focus on is AMERICAN GUNS ARE KILLING PEOPLE IN MEXICO. Don't let them change that truth.

[Ken_Fish]

11. They sure are. Sold to mexico direct from Colt and FN in Colombia SC

machine guns, M4s, m249's, 40mm grenades, m203's to launch them. LAW rockets, m67 frags, M2 browning machine guns. Shall I continue.

Want to see some pictures? Mexicans are killing Mexicans because its illegal to get high.

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. And the State and Defense Departments approved every one of *those* arms sales.

Certain people would prefer to not to discuss them, however.

[Vinee]

24. Isn't it the ATF's fault that the guns ended up in Mexico in the first place though?

It does seem like it's the American BATFE killing people in Mexico more than simply "American guns".

[one-eyed fat man]

33. How much dope do you smoke?

Another series of leaked State Department cables made public this week by WikiLeaks dispute the meme that US civilian arms are the big guns in Mexico's narco wars.

The State Department cables released recently by WikiLeaks confirm that our government is very aware of the fact that U.S military munitions are finding their way into Mexico, and into the hands of narco-trafficking organizations, via a multi-billion dollar stream of foreign military sales and Pentagon arms exports. Much of it diverted from the Salvadoran military and corrupt Mexican police.

The guns stores in Houston and Arizona named by the Washington Post as the top dealers for guns seized in Mexico are not responsible for the increasing militarization of narco-trafficking groups in Mexico. They did not sell the U.S. military-issued ammunition that popped up in an arms cache seized in Reynosa, Mexico, in November 2008 that was linked to the Zetas, a mercenary group that provides enforcement services to Mexican narco-trafficking organizations. What they are guilty of is co-operating with the ATF in selling guns to criminals the ATF at the ATF's behest.

When the ATF lost track of the criminals, the guns and across the border it was doubly negligent and failed to warn the Mexican authorities. When the guns it lost track of were later used to kill US Border Patrol agents, the agency went into full cover up mode.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/photobucket.com/albums/v611/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=383548&mesg_id=383548

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maine_Nurse]

12. Sorry, only 12% were traced back to US dealers. Most of the rest of the traceable were Mexican Gov.

If you are going to spew, at least spew factually.

[aikoaiko]

43. Have you no shame?

90% of the gun SUBMITTED for tracing were traced back to US gun shops, but most guns recovered from Mexican crime scenes were not submitted.

Factcheck (funded by the anti-gun Annenberg Organization) put the number closer to 30% and Fox news put the figure are 17%.

[X_Digger]

14. Fecal material approaching air transitional device. n/t

[Mimosa]

15. There is no payoff for Agent Dodson in revealing the truth

Agent Dodson says his conscience (guilt over the death of a Border agent) has led him to be a whistle blower. I have no reason to doubt it.

I hope CBS and the rest of the media will investigate further. I want to know the motive behind supplying the crime cartels with weapons and ammo.

Bush is no longer President.

[pipoman]

16. Guns have little to do with the violence in Mexico

US pot prohibition is having the same effect in Mexico as alcohol prohibition had in the US. When will our law makers shift away from St. Ronnie's fantasy of a pot free America? I believe Obama needs a bold policy stance to insure his re-election and bolster his legacy. The answer is to increase revenues, stop the drug cartels, slow border smuggling, dismantle a large part of the black market in the US, and dramatically reduce law enforcement and incarceration costs....or, maybe, this will turn into Obama's 'Iran Contra'?

[jpak]

17. 34,000 dead Mexicans say you are wrong

yup

[Xenotime]

21. People die in america all the time....what are they saying?

[Vinee]

23. nothing?

[WatsonT]

26. Statistics are fun!

http://forum.sportsmogul.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18149&d=1219605394

Yup.

[pipoman]

32. So, I assume, you blame

cars for drunk drivers, money for theft, porn for rape, matches for arson, etc...really, I can't think of a dumber position than believing guns are the problem in Mexico, regardless where they come from..help yourself, agree with Raygun's prohibition war..

[Uncle Joe]

22. This is just another snowflake in the insane blizzard; known as the "War on Drugs,"

there is nothing logical, efficient, functional or redeeming about that endeavor.

This corrupting insanity will only perpetuate an adverse dynamic leading to national/international chaos and misery.

Thanks for the thread, Avant Guardian.

[WatsonT]

25. Clearly we need to shut down all gun shows in the US

to prevent this from happening again.

[AlphaCentauri]

27. make sense, arm the cartels, have the Zetas fight them and let special agents provoke each other

so they can kill each other,
sound like a plan to me.

[sarcasmo]

28. Again, worst country on the Planet.

[X_Digger]

29. Hyperbole is the suckiest thing EVAHR! n/t

[Ter]

30. Abolish the vile ATF

It should be a convenience store.

[beevul]

31. Yup.

Yup.

Yup.

[karynnj]

34. In addition, it looks like the Congress was lied to on this

On March 31, 2009, Senators Kerry and Lugar had a SRFC hearing in El Paso Texas. Here is a link to Kerry's opening statement - http://foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/KerryStatement090330a.pdf (As this was off premises, the SFRC does not have video on its site.

As you can see, one problem Kerry targeted was a claim that the weapons came from the US. At the time, he was attacked from the right as just wanting to take away their second amendment rights. (Dodson was there in 2010 - which was after this hearing - the question was were they ignoring it even then?)

[X_Digger]

35. Sen. Kerry's bought the 90% kool-aid, too..

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/

[karynnj]

36. Actually, I watched the hearing and he was trying to get to the truth

- if you read his statement, he was speaking of a specific group of weapons that were checked - and they were mostly from the US. That does not mean they were a representative sample, but that number has more support than the Republican/Fox News number.

Why would you call it Kool Aid? Where do you think the weapons are coming from. This recent story only adds detail to HOW American sold guns got there.

[X_Digger]

37. Well, he did play out the 90% canard in all it's misstatement..

Ninety percent of the weapons seized from the cartels and traced by ATF originated in the United States.

If you read the congressional testimony by the ATF or the GAO report (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09781t.pdf) it reads a bit differently.

90% refers to:

-of the guns that are seized in MX,
-of the gun serial numbers that the MX govt sends to the US for tracing,
-of the gun serial numbers that the ATF was able to trace -- 90% of those come from the US*.

ie, there were 4,449 guns traced to the US in 2009- http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/issue_brief_mexico_2010.pdf

Yet Calderon claimed that 75,000 had been seized in the last three years-

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/05/mexican_president_challenges_c.html

Just to give you an idea, we have seized 75,000 guns and assault weapons in Mexico in the last three years. And more than 80 percent of those we have been able to trace came from the United States — from the United States.

Even Calderon makes sure to state it in a way that, if challenged, can be explained. (the "of those we have been able to trace" bit.)

The careful reader will notice that Calderon does not claim that 80% of 75,000 come from the US. No, that's left to the likes of wapo-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/12/AR2010121202663.html

Federal authorities say more than 60,000 U.S. guns of all types have been recovered in Mexico in the past four years, helping fuel the violence that has contributed to 30,000 deaths. Mexican President Felipe Calderon came to Washington in May and urged Congress and President Obama to stop the flow of guns south.

60,000 is 80% of 75,000.


* Another thing to consider is the types of guns often pictured in MX narcotraficante arrests. Quite a few of them may be of US manufacture, but aren't available over the counter at JimBob's Gunz- short barreled rifles, full auto M-16s, etc. The most likely source for such guns is the US, as approved by the state department's export control directly to the MX government. With 150,000 deserters from the MX military to the DTOs, there's bound to be a lot of theft.

[karynnj]

38. Kerry DID write what you said - in the sentence you quote, he includes "and traced by ATF"

Further, two paragraphs later, Kerry says that not all guns seized are traced back - only about 1/4th are.

What is less common, however, is the cooperation that occurred in this case. Only about one out of every four weapons seized by Mexican authorities last year was submitted to the ATF so they could be traced back to purchasers and sellers in the United States. The Mexican government should provide the ATF with fuller access to these weapons.

This gibes with your quote from the GAO

90% refers to:

-of the guns that are seized in MX,
-of the gun serial numbers that the MX govt sends to the US for tracing,
-of the gun serial numbers that the ATF was able to trace -- 90% of those come from the US*.

Kerry makes no inference on the remaining 3/4ths and in the hearing he did mention that not all serial numbers given could be traced in the hearing. The hearing also did not say that the guns all came from gun shows. (You, in fact, come closer to making an inference that none of the 3/4ths not traced were from the US - though not as close as the WP does in assuming the % is the same as those traced.)

You then shift to Calderon's THREE YEAR numbers and the Washington Post NOT putting in the qualifier that Senator Kerry did.

Kerry's reputation from his Contra and BCCI hearings and his time as a prosecutor, is that he is very careful and precise in his language and that he never included anything that could not be backed up.

Here, your interest in guns, easily seen by using the DU search feature, is why you want to discredit anything that makes easier access to guns look bad, which this does. The big difference between what you seem to be saying and what Kerry was saying is that he obviously thinks their is a potential problem with the 90% of the 25% traced - and you don't.

[X_Digger]

40. I consider it weasel language.

Sen. Kerry's language using the 90% leaves the *impression* that 90% of the guns seized in Mexico come from the US.

It may also be that only one in four seized guns are sent to the US for tracing because only one in four appear to be of US design / mfg. Sen. Kerry's statement doesn't reflect that possibility.

eta: And yes, I did forget to list 2008 and 2007, my apologies- they were in the GAO report - 14,209 were traced back to the US for the preceding 3 years. About 20% of all the guns seized, not 90%.

[BlueIris]

41. My hand went to my mouth when I read this.

Maybe I shouldn't be shocked by this scandal, but I totally am.

[buckrogers1965]

42. Just another example

of state sponsored terrorism.