Indian Executive Burned To Death By Fired Workers

[Larkspur]

Wow! Maybe our executives should be glad American workers don't do things like this.

Radhey Shyam Roy, Indian Executive Burned To Death By Fired Workers
SNIP

After learning they were laid off, about a dozen workers attacked a vehicle carrying Radhey Shyam Roy as he was leaving the factory in eastern Orissa state on Thursday, dousing the Jeep with gasoline and setting it on fire, said police Superintendent Ajay Kumar Sarangi.

Two other people in the vehicle were allowed to flee but Roy, 59, was trapped inside and later died of severe burns, Sarangi said.

Police were questioning two workers and their formal arrest on murder charges was likely, Sarangi told The Associated Press. The steel factory is in Bolangir district, nearly 250 miles (400 kilometers) west of Bhubaneshwar, the capital of Orissa state.

Incidents of industrial violence are common in India, where workers often target executives in cases of wage disputes and job losses.

In 2008, scores of dismissed employees of an Italian manufacturing company, Graziano Transmissioni India, used iron rods and wooden sticks to beat to death the company's local chief executive officer on the outskirts of New Delhi.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[plumbob]

3. Correct. Especially in areas where there are no other options, family

members could die, from lack of food, shelter, health care, any of the dollarized services needed for life now.

Actions have consequences. For too long, those in power have been allowed to use it for ill, to kill, maim and blight with no consequence, where a hungry shoplifter goes straight to jail.

[tularetom]

5. Thank you for having the courage to post

What a lot of us were only thinking.

Fear is the emotion these POS's use to control the rest of the population.

They need a taste of fear themselves.

[sailor65]

6. Maybe you should consider a new avatar??

Just a thought....

[cascadiance]

8. This is the ultimate consequence if the victims have no other options...

And it will happen EVERYWHERE the closer we get to that situation everywhere else around the world. It is what had the French using the guillotine back in their own revolution in earlier times.

I submit that we really don't want to get to that stage, as we will then be living in a real live "Mad Max/Road Warrior" movie script if we don't reverse the trends that are moving us to oligarchy/slavery where we are headed now.

Right now I think there is a lot of emotions even here in this country that would provoke that response even here. What's holding many people back is that many step back and realize that they will lose more of what they have if they pursue them, and most still haven't hit bottom yet where they have nothing left to lose.

But the time where people have something to lose is fast approaching an end. The more people are put out on the street with bankruptcies here, or doomed without any health care coverage, and the more we have a proliferation of weapons and other forms of assets that provide greater means of violence than we had in earlier tough times like the Depression, we could be headed to VERY violent times. The warning signs are there. The key is whether we can at some point have any kind of political leadership that recognizes this, and sees the need to break with the oligarchic control over the system we have in place now and fight to take it down to avoid the end game of enough people being put in desperate circumstances that what just happened in India also doesn't happen here as well.

In the past, every time we've had a revolution of great magnitude (like the Soviet Union falling, etc.), we've had a set of other countries with greater military and financial power to sit on the sidelines and in effect be able to offer aid when the smoke clears to help such a country recover when it wants to fix its system then. It might be helping places like Egypt now, where the protestors are in a way counting on us withholding aid from someone like Mubarek if he becomes too extreme in his methods, and aid them if they do the right things if and when they take over. Iran is an example where more repressive crackdowns happen with less outside influence that might help foster peaceful resolution to leadership crisis.

I submit that the U.S. is a unique country in this world where we DO NOT have this option of having other countries powerful enough to stand on the sideline with its/their power to help us go in the right direction if we had such unrest in our country. Maybe China, but even there, I don't think they can be counted on "helping" us make this country a better place if our country breaks down. It would most likely try to help some oligarchic power structure that remains after the smoke clears.

THAT is why we CANNOT allow ourselves to get to this point. We absolutely MUST find some ways to force the corporatocracy to step down from its Koch-infested extreme measures before its too late. Maybe it will take some heavy acts of violence directed at this corporatocracy before those at the top will wake up to the fact that they aren't immune from violence from those at the bottom. I hope for theirs and our welfare, that they don't wait until that point to make amends for what they've been doing. That violent time IS coming if they don't stop their current insidious agenda.

If we get to the point of a French Revolution atmosphere here, I really think we'll be in for a world of hurt. There will be no one out there to bail us out, and many in the world at that point, having suffered from the acts of those at the top of our country who've screwed our country and they the rest of the world, would be just happy to sit back and watch those finally "get their due", and our previously area of having the most civility of any country in the world, might flip and become the most uncivil society in our world's history.

[Obamanaut]

2. More responses at these earlier threads. Murder is not generally considered

the answer to what one considers a wrong.

Links to threads ->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=557798

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=560594

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=557349

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=556274

[TheKentuckian]

24. Murder???? That's self defense, Jack. Aggressive self defense but self defense.

Food, shelter, and caring for children and elderly parents trumps "a wrong".

These people are in subsistence mode despite the capitalist propaganda that we have elevated their standard of living by giving them "jobs" aka servitude, slaving away for 16 and 20 hours for enough for lite eating and maybe a night's shelter...MAYBE...many end up sleeping under their work tables so they can send money to feed the families they are separated from.

[elocs]

4. Discussion here, from yesterday with 30 Recs:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x557798

[AnOhioan]

7. Pure brutality...and for the posters here, cheering it on.....

You need help...seriously.

[plumbob]

9. You truly believe that the pursuit of profits is more important than the

lives of workers?

Not even Adam Smith believed that. He believed in production to provide for the greatest number.

[AnOhioan]

10. No...but nor do I believe that outright murder is ever justified

[provis99]

11. It looks more like preemptive self defense to me.

Kill him before he kills you and your family.

[AnOhioan]

12. OK...tells me all I need to know

:eyes:

[Nye Bevan]

56. YES. Absolutely clear-cut self-defense.

Burning a corporate executive to death in his car because you were laid off is *obviously* justified. No jury would *ever* vote to convict.

I don't know what's up with those bleeding-heart DUers in this thread trying to claim that it's wrong to burn corporate executives to death after you have been laid off.

[chaska]

15. Cheney vs. the lives hundreds of thousands of Iraqis....

Decisions, decisions.

[cognoscere]

17. Ahh...good thing you weren't around to deal with Hitler.

[plumbob]

23. Why is outright murder worse than not-outright murder?

Give me an example of each, please, so I can get a sense of what you're trying to say.

[TBF]

37. Really, do you support Mr. Obama's military? nt

[WatsonT]

20. That's an impressive misdirect

No your honor I set the man on fire in self defense!

[plumbob]

25. What's misdirecting about that? Was the boss helping the workers

by firing them and enabling their families to go on to greater things?

Or...

[WatsonT]

27. So anyone who is not helping you can be burned to death

with no moral qualms whatsoever?

I disagree.

Likely he was an asshole.

That doesn't mean he should be burned to death.

[plumbob]

28. You seem to hold some notions of value that I can't understand, seeing

as how there are 7 billion or so folks on the earth, the loss of one or two here or there can hardly be significant, can it?

You admit he wasn't helping; that's the first step. Now can you see that he was actually actively harming this man and/or his family? As such, is he not entitled to fight back? Or do you think people should have to watch their families harmed over money?

[nessa]

29. And how did setting the guy on fire help this man's family?

Is their situation better now? Are they less harmed?

[plumbob]

30. Perhaps this was an altruistic act for others in the future. I think you'll

agree that the company's thinking about how these things are done might change a bit, and if the company top managers don't think so, perhaps others in the same level will do so on their own.

Best way to get real performance is get some skin in the game.

Is the family's situation worse now? Are they more harmed? The company may decide to make some monetary amends to them, call the whole thing a mistake ordered by a rogue manager, certainly not the benevolent top management, no, no. This sound like a reasonable spin to you?

And in the end, if it was not altruism, if the company never changes, if there is no spin, if there is no recompense, then there is a leveling of damage done and damage taken by both parties involved. At the least, a karmic leveling.

[WatsonT]

32. "the loss of one or two here or there can hardly be significant, can it"

At what point does human life become valuable?

100, 1000, 10000? 12 million?

"You admit he wasn't helping; that's the first step."

I assume you can prove your value, right now lest you be set ablaze.


"Now can you see that he was actually actively harming this man and/or his family? As such, is he not entitled to fight back? Or do you think people should have to watch their families harmed over money?"

Clearly going to jail for murder is the best course of action, now his family will thrive.

[plumbob]

35. I don't believe that any number is significant, and I'm certainly not.

I'm certain that most all people age 30 or so, including me, could easily be summarily executed for the thoughtless AND the purposeful damage we've done to others by that time in life.

How do you know what will happen to his family now? With him gone and his needs provided by the state, that's one less mouth to feed. You are familiar with societies who put elderly folks out to sea to conserve resources for the you, aren't you?

Apparently you have me confused with one of the classic American exceptionalists, who postulate rules and laws for OTHERS, not themselves. Not at all. Someday I will be put in the ground, if not for rules and laws which require my dead body to be encased in a concrete vault around a coffin after embalming, would provide nourishment for the critters there.

And that will be the end of me, and of everyone else who's alive today. No use bemoaning death - it is inevitable, unlike taxes, which as many wealthy folk prove, can be completely avoided.

[WatsonT]

40. Ok, so you're a genocide enthusiast

wow.

Nothing really to discuss is there?

BTW: I assume you've never complained about the human cost of any war ever fought as it doesn't really matter?

[plumbob]

50. Quite the opposite. You are the one postulating that killing off populations

using economic means is okay. I am saying that actions by individuals have consequences, a very different thing.

You're right, there is nothing to discuss so long as you believe that companies can do no wrong, managers held to no account, that profits are more important than people, and that "nice" people don't think otherwise, and especially don't bring up embarrassing examples of company mis-, mal-, or non-feasance which in death or lower quality of life for people (which is really just a slower death).

I DO complain about humans being sent to die for a bunch of comfy business folks and politicians to make money. I've said often that if any military action is going to be justified, that 435 Congressfolk, 100 Senators, and 1 President need to be in the front line. THEN I can accept that it's important.

It's ironic that you can't see that you are the one putting no value on life, in that you think companies should be able to blight and end lives without consequence.

[WatsonT]

51. Why complain about people dying?

Individual lives don't matter.

Or did you change your mind.

[plumbob]

53. One life does not count for more than another. So why do you insist

that company executives are more valuable than workers and should be allowed to blight and end their lives at will, while ordinary folk must just take it?

You have not answered my request for one, just one, happy-feely story about managers being great; you ignored my 30 years and another poster's career experience without providing an alternative.

So unless you really are going to contribute anything factual to this thread, I bid you adieu.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WatsonT]

59. You keep whaling on that strawman

I think you can let him rest for a bit.

Now if you could respond to my anti-murder stance instead . . . . ?

[Yavin4]

13. Just Wait Until The Factories Start Leaving China for Even Cheaper Labor Markets

The billion or so Chinese workers will literally bring down that nation.

[B Calm]

14. The rich bastards have been riding on the back of a tiger for 30 years and

the tiger is getting very hungry! I see interesting days ahead in this country too!!

[Maru Kitteh]

16. How horrible. Just .. yikes.

[JI7]

18. what if he fired them because they seemed unstable and violent

[WatsonT]

21. Seems like he would have been correct then

[plumbob]

26. More likely him to be unstable and violent. Ever worked in management?

I have, over three decades and three industries. Most of the managers could not have passed any decent psych fitness test.

[WatsonT]

33. Great thing about stereotypes

is that they're 100% true.

:eyes:

[plumbob]

34. Please answer the question - have you worked with 100+ managers in

three industries in the last 30 years? I have, and this reflects that experience.

Take 1997 - shop foreman threatens machinist with large caliber pistol in hand to finish job before quitting time. Action: shop foreman given rest of day off with pay.

later that year - service supervisor slashes tires of serviceman because he THINKS the serviceman bad-mouthed him to a customer. But he didn't - I did. Action: supervisor given 10 minute lecture on not damaging company property.

later that year - branch manager puts D-Con mouse poison in coffee pot after break because he thinks someone is "sneaking" back in and refilling their coffee during work time. They were - company owner gets poisoned, goes to hospital. Response: FINALLY, someone gets fired, the manager, because he bragged to the secretary what he was doing beforehand. But that's management on management.

later that year, new manager rams his car into secretary's car on the parking lot because she spurned his sexual advances. Response: secretary with 17 years in gets fired for "provoking" the manager.

That's ONE year in ONE company personally observed by me in my administrative position in charge of filling out reports on these things, so they are not urban legends.


Now, got any great stories about wonderful, benevolent managers?


Hmmmm?











<crickets>

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

41. I am a postal employee and these experiences resonate deeply with me

In my experience, managers, as a class, generally have no clue.

This is the direct result of pushing MBAs for so many years, and encouraging said MBA recipients to believe that they can manage any business, regardless of their experience in any given field, if they simply follow the prescribed management techniques.

Please believe me when I say that this particular broad brush is very well and truly deserved.

[WatsonT]

42. I didn't realize so many Indians

were in fact American MBA students.

[plumbob]

47. Asked and answered.

Not you.

[WatsonT]

49. Statement does not make sense

is it your contention that Indians = Americans?

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[plumbob]

46. Yes. I even had one young (26 or so) bank department manager tell

me that not only did he not need to know banking, he could create reality by his management techniques!


(Reality turned out to be 22 resignations in a 25 person department within 6 months. Sometimes reality sucks, even one worked so hard to create.)

[treestar]

55. If they have no clue, why didn't you get the job?

Did you listen or try to find out what the company needs to function?

I don't know how many people I've heard tell me how their bosses were so incompetent. Just amazing that there is so much failure to promote the right people. You'd think the economy would have collapsed by now.

[plumbob]

45. Nice work on demonizing me as KKK, WatsonT!

You feel free to stereotype folks you haven't even met. That's weird, since you just slammed me for using my own actual personal experiences over 30 years to set my own feelings about life.

Yet, you will use no experience at all to set your own feelings.

Well, you're clearly non-cognitive, so I will wish you a happy day and a great life! Bye.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WatsonT]

60. Not stereotyped

I have talked to you. My characterization of you is based on your words.

I will not carry your faults to all other people I meet who vaguely resemble you, that would be stereotyping?

Understand now?

[Zax2me]

19. I am glad Americans workers don't do this...

Murder - are you kidding?
Not the answer.

[plumbob]

31. Hmmm, maybe a closer look at just today's news, eh?

Man Accused Of Killing Boss With Shotgun

..........Alkattan had originally hired Christian when he was homeless. Sources say Christian had borrowed money from his boss that he could not pay back.
“He was a slacker, and he didn't work. He was going to fire him,” Bantalav said.
Before Christian was taken to jail, he had a message for the victim’s family.
“I would like to apologize to his children and his wife,” Christian said.

http://www.wftv.com/news/27046705/detail.html

or

Warning signs of potential workplace violence

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (WVLT) -- It was a routine day at Fay Innovative Waste in Athens. But by mid-shift the workday would take a deadly turn.

That's when police say 52-year-old Darrell Hester returned to the office following a heated argument with company owner Darrell Franklin, and opened fire. When the shooting ended Franklin and Hester lay dead. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workplace violence isn't as uncommon as you might think. Infact, 10% of homicides happen on the job, says the BLS.

http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/Warning_signs_of_potential_workplace_violence_117364898.html

Those are on the first page when you hit Google News with "workplace shooting"

10% of all homicides on the job, my, my.

[eridani]

36. We don't do it because we still have a safety net, however tattered

Let's hope things stay that way.

[datasuspect]

22. people do fucked up shit when they think their kids will go hungry

haul ass, get paid

[sendero]

38. There's not enough information to take sides..

... on this.

Maybe the plant lost orders and simply did not have the cash flow to support the additional workers.

Or maybe the supervisor figured he could fire some people, knowing he would condemn them to hunger and knowing he could then make the remaining people work harder out of fear.

Very different scenarios and the "justification" changes a lot depending on each.

[tuckessee]

44. This thread should be viewed by Federal authorities.

To see who shows insane, murderous tendencies of class hatred & envy.

[Horse with no Name]

52. When I talk to the idiots around here who hate food stamps

and think it is okay to take them away because "someone knew someone" who bought something they shouldn't, etc, cadillac queens, etc.

My only response to them..."I sincerely hope that the people that you take away their only source of food live in YOUR neighborhood, not mine"....and all that implies.

We are seeing some really interesting times--and the people who have fed the beast their entire lives are facing the reality that the beast won't reciprocate.

Getting "fired" may take on a new meaning.

[Dappleganger]

54. There's a thin fabric between the haves and have-nots...

as the disparity increases, that fabric become ever so more fragile. Not excusing what happened by any means, just merely observing the circumstances as unsurprising.

[NYC Liberal]

58. Anyone who thinks this is ok is a sick fucking person

who needs help. End of story.

[DiverDave]

61. Maybe the manager was just doing his job.

and if he didn't, maybe HE would have been fired?

So he was just looking out for his, or is that worth dying for?

Seriously, some fucked up people here.