How do you feel when you see a member of management berate an employee in public?

[Cirque du So-What]

This post is inspired by the following thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x569943

[wtmusic]

1. Choice #2 is enjoying 1/3000 odds but they're sliding fast

Get your bets in soon.

[pipi_k]

19. It's not even only about Corporate humiliation...

It's rude and obnoxious for anyone to engage in public humiliation...I don't care who it is.

[roguevalley]

60. 8 people here are either management or tools or both. If they are

management it is probable that they are tools too.

[kelly1mm]

77. Anyone taking those odds would have been rich since the breakdown

looks more like 1/20 than 1/3000. Not quite time to lose your day job and become a bookmaker I suppose.

[WatsonT]

2. Context matters

some managers are assholes.

Some employees deserve to be berated.

[Agony]

3. That wasn't the question.

[WatsonT]

4. I'm aware of the question

but I can't answer it without the context.

What's your opinion when you see a man pounding on an unconscious women in the street?

Depends, violent thug, or EMT trying to save her life?

[Cirque du So-What]

8. No, I don't think you ARE aware

The title of this post/thread clearly states *IN PUBLIC*. There's your context!

[WatsonT]

12. Ah, so that's the only context that matters?

All issues are binary?

Ok in your opinion the fact that it is in public is the only relevant detail.

My opinion differs.

What if, for instance, 90% of employees are known to be stealing office supplies, costing the company millions. Numerous warnings have been ineffective. Then one day the manager catches one employee carting out a dozen or so computers to his car. He publicly berates and then fires the person in front of everyone else, of which 90% were also stealing (although less egregiously).

The next day the thefts stop.

I don't see anything wrong with that tactic.

Doesn't mean it's justified in all cases, but there are situations where it could be warranted.

This is called nuance.

BTW: is the point of this poll to reaffirm your beliefs, or to engage a discussion? If the former why bother putting multiple choices? If the latter why berate publicly everyone who disagrees with you as not understanding the question?

[Cirque du So-What]

27. Nice try

OK, it's NOT a nice try, but I was in a rare conciliatory moment. Lettuce break down your statements:

'All issues are binary?'
No, not all issues are binary, but this one is; it's either right or wrong for a member of management to publicly berate an employee.

'My opinion differs.'
You ain't shittin'! Every publication I've ever read on the subject insists that it's ALWAYS a bad idea. All. Ways. No exception. Like I said, I'll defer to your superior judgment on the issue of human relations if you're an expert in the field. Otherwise, not so much.

'What if, for instance, 90% of employees are known to be stealing office supplies, costing the company millions. Numerous warnings have been ineffective. Then one day the manager catches one employee carting out a dozen or so computers to his car. He publicly berates and then fires the person in front of everyone else, of which 90% were also stealing (although less egregiously).
This company has serious problems that predate the public firing of an employee. If management wants to compound the problem by escalating hostilities, that's their prerogative...not a wise prerogative IMO, but still their choice to make.

'The next day the thefts stop.'
Highly conjectural, to say the least, and I am highly dubious of such a scenario unfolding. More likely IMO: a tiny fraction of the thieves will be 'scared straight,' a somewhat larger fraction will stop stealing briefly or merely become more sneaky about their thievery, and the lion's share won't give a fuck - with some of those doubling-down on their larcenous activities.

'I don't see anything wrong with that tactic.'
Again, I consider your premise highly conjectural, so it's neither here nor there if you 'see' or not.

'Doesn't mean it's justified in all cases, but there are situations where it could be warranted.'
It's not wishy, but then again it's not washy...or maybe it is...I just can't decide.

'This is called nuance.'
No, this is called condescension, and it's never attractive - usually accompanying deployment of a logical fallacy or few.

BTW: is the point of this poll to reaffirm your beliefs, or to engage a discussion? If the former why bother putting multiple choices? If the latter why berate publicly everyone who disagrees with you as not understanding the question?'
As Harry Truman said, 'I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.' Context, yunno.

[WatsonT]

28. Consider this

if I were a manager and one day saw some of my employees calling the only muslim employee a raghead while the rest just watched or laughed you're goddamn right I'd publicly berate those doing it, right before firing them.

Sometimes sending the message that certain behaviors are absolutely unacceptable is more important than protecting the feelings of abusers.

In that scenario, you'd prefer a polite private chat and perhaps a mass email?

Chilling.

[Cirque du So-What]

44. Nice strawman

I recall that you mentioned 'binary' solutions - AS IF the only solutions possible were either a public berating & firing or a 'polite private chat' :eyes:

[WatsonT]

63. It's called "hypothetical"

as you seem to believe there are absolutely zero situations that would warrant a manager treating a worker like this it would take precisely 1 counter example to disprove your thesis, right? That's the downside of absolute statements.

In that scenario, who would you side with: the manager or the anti-islamic bigot?

[Cirque du So-What]

93. Still no cases that I can think of that warrant a public berating

not even the anti-Islamic rant. You really think adults in the workplace need to be treated like children?!? I'm hoping against hope that you have no real authority over anyone in *your* workplace.

[WatsonT]

96. Sigh

I accept that you believe the feelings of workers are sacrosanct. I however do not agree.

It seems we will not agree on this, and continue to retread the same ground.

I would advise in the future though that if your goal is to state your opinion and posit it as fact that you do not put it in the form of a poll.

[WatsonT]

18. Consider this scenario:

a manager walks out on the the factory floor to see a male employee groping a female employee, obviously without her consent.

Would he be a total asshole to confront the man, publicly, and order him to stop doing this and behave better?

Or he sees some white employees calling the lone black employee the n-word. He would be wrong to yell at them?

Nuance, context, this are not 4 letter words.

[bettyellen]

47. "to confront the man, publicly, and order him to stop doing this" is not berating them

and yes the manager unprofessional to yell at anyone. you can voice disapproval and intolerance of the actions, and state it is grounds for immediate dismissal without berating the employee in a personal manner. Keeping calm and professional is what managers are hired for. You can hate the sin, and spare the rest of us your personal outrage. It keeps the focus on the behavior, and other employees are likely to understand that it;s about policy, not a personal beef.

[WatsonT]

64. So he should respectfully tell the guy

to stop in that scenario?

At what point are the abusers feelings not tantamount?

[bettyellen]

78. if you don't know how to control your emotions at work, you shouldn;t manage others. respect is not

the only option aside from humiliation. and if you don't know that, you shouldn't be a manager either.
it;s not only about the employee who has done something wrong, it;s about all the employees present, the customer, and the place of business.
Making the desire to express your emotions paramount is immature and poor management.

[WatsonT]

84. dupe

[WatsonT]

85. And if after a cold, rational

examination of the facts the manager deems this to be the best way to handle the situation?

The reason public beratings are so unpopular is because they are humiliating. We hate to be humiliated in public.

Meaning it is an extremely effective way to deter improper behavior. Likely you don't need to be told not to fart in a crowded room. Why? There is no real penalty for it. Simply because it's embarrassing. That's an example of an effective use of public embarrassment (albeit without anyone in control of it) to moderate inappropriate behavior.

Now if the employee hasn't done anything bad enough to warrant that then it should be addressed in private. Or if there is no reason to send a strong message to other employees.

However, that doesn't mean that in exactly 100% of cases it is unwarranted.

[bettyellen]

98. "It is an extremely effective way to deter improper behavior" but all evidence to the contrary

it's kind of obvious that this is only your own conclusion based on who the fuck cares what. however the whole field of psychiatry as well as every esteemed sociologist publish today will tell you youre dead wrong. I'd spam you with inks, LOL,.. but Im going to take my own advice and spare you the humiliation. Instead I will just cooly ratinally stae that you are out of here. Not worth taling to, yawn....goodbye.

[Cirque du So-What]

5. In public?

That's the gist of this poll and the subject of the post that inspired it. I don't recall suggesting anywhere - and I didn't see evidence that it was suggested in the OP - that management is not within their rights to discipline their employees.

In that regard, you're correct; context matters, and for purposes of this poll, it's in the context of *PUBLIC* beratings.

[WatsonT]

10. I guess I don't see it as that big of deal

private matters should be dealt with privately.

But what if it's intended to send a warning to all employees who are likewise engaged in the same (although to a lesser extent) behavior as the person being berated?

One public berating would be far more efficient and effective than a hundred private sit-downs.

For some reason people really don't like being embarrassed publicly, making it both very cruel when unwarranted and very effective when needed.

I would say that most of the time it is likely unprofessional and makes the manager look bad more than anything else.

However I won't say that it never serves any purpose and is never effective.

[Cirque du So-What]

14. I never thought I would see such apologia for corporate bullies on DU

Can you cite even ONE reliable source that says publicly berating employees is a good idea? If you're an expert in this area, I'll defer to your superior experience. Otherwise, I'll settle for just one citation of an organization that advocates a practice that every other publication I've encountered considers utterly unsound.

[WatsonT]

16. Cite a source, for a matter of opinion?

And I don't recall supporting bullies. Could you cite a source for that?

"If you're an expert in this area, I'll defer to your superior experience."

Are you?

"Otherwise, I'll settle for just one citation of an organization that advocates a practice that every other publication I've encountered considers utterly unsound."

What other publications?

You seem to have a double standard wherein any opposition to your rigid views must cite mountains of evidence, whereas you are free to say things like "I've heard" and leave it at that.

As I asked earlier: is the real purpose of this poll merely to have others reaffirm your own beliefs?

Why add an option then?

[Cirque du So-What]

42. Twisting words again, I see

'And I don't recall supporting bullies. Could you cite a source for that?'
I never said 'supporting bullies.' I said 'apologia for corporate bullies.' Big difference. Citation? Your responses in this thread are chock-a-block with apologia.

'What other publications?'
Well, there's this guy...

Managers should be able to lead and discipline employees and get their point across without yelling or losing control. They should also do what they SAY- never threaten to take away benefits or other threats that never come through in the heat of "yelling". You never motivate employees with fear- for long... Yelling never accomplished a motivated workforce and berating or embarrassing someone is also ineffective. If you need a talk, do it in private or with one additional "neutral" manager present. Also consider- the OTHER employees who see this happening- they also feel bad for the employee getting yelled at as well as say "that manager is an asshole" under their breath. The manager easily isolates himself and employees do whatever they can to avoid being yelled at, to blame others for things that do wrong, to be more concerned with covering their own backside and not just focusing on "getting the work done". Many times, these managers are oblivious to the fact that they suck at "leading people"- or they know it and don't care.

<snip>

You can catch more bees with honey, they say. Just be reasonable and fair- the employees will be better for it and appreciate the manager for letting them have the freedom to do their work. What comes around, goes around.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Human-Resources-2866/2009/9/appropriate-conduct-6.htm

About Brian Phillips, the author of the above passage:

Expertise
Can answer questions in areas of wage and hour, OT, Fair labor standards, FMLA, COBRA, Recruiting, Interviewing techniques, employee manuals, HRIS rollout, Employee Leasing or Staffing company cost analysis, bacon, eggs, and more. Essentially a well rounded HR generalist who operates Harvis, Inc., a human resource consulting and service business based in Northeastern Pennsylvania "NEPA". http://www.harvis.org

Experience in the area
At Harvis, Inc., we provide Human Resource products, services and advice to small businesses that may not have the time or resources to hire a full time HR department. For larger companies with HR managers in place, we compliment their expertise to help with time consuming or time sensitive projects like updating policy manuals, screening and interviewing and more. We make workplaces better by becoming that 1/2 person they need to help handle HR responsibilities on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. Formerly responsible for all Human Resource activity for a staffing agency with 2,500 annual employees as well as an employee leasing / PEO business with 1,500 annual employees. Designed and implemented the HR structure to support hundreds of clients in excess of $ 500 million in payroll volume over career in Human Resources.

http://www.allexperts.com/ep/2866-102614/Human-Resources/Brian-Phillips.htm

OK, your turn. I could do this all day, but I'll settle for just *ONE* citation where an expert says it's ever alright...with the single exception of imminent danger - not stealing, not groping, nor any of the other red herrings you've interjected into conversation thus far.

[WatsonT]

65. Pointing out that managers aren't necessarily

the devil is apologizing for them?

Wow.

[sufrommich]

23. Seriously? It would be hard to imagine anything more

unprofessional for a supervisor that to yell at an employee in public. I worked as a custodial supervisor for over 20 years, that kind of approach would have had me in the boss's office.There are rules as to how employees are treated,even when they do wrong, and there is a reason those rules are in place.Personally, if I saw someone being berated in public by their boss, I would say something to the boss about his/her lack of supervisory skills, see how they like it.

[WatsonT]

25. To repeat my previous analogy:

a manager walks out on the the factory floor to see a male employee groping a female employee, obviously without her consent.

Would he be a total asshole to confront the man, publicly, and order him to stop doing this and behave better?

Or he sees some white employees calling the lone black employee the n-word. He would be wrong to yell at them?

All this would better set the tone that such behavior is unacceptable than a private discussion and possibly mass email would.

If either of those scenarios, you would side with the workers, or the manager?

[MH1]

32. It seems to me the cases you propose warrant immediate firing.

These are extreme cases that might warrant immediate action on the spot without worrying about who else is around. But I think the first step would be along the lines of 'Hey Joe! I need to see you in my office!'

In the first case, he would be a total asshole if all he did was to ask the guy to 'behave better'. Step 1, after stopping what was going on, call HR. Then get the woman's story. If it turns out he saw what he thought he saw, HR terminates the employee and the next question is whether criminal charges are filed. If it turns out he completely misunderstood what was going on and was really a completely innocent incident, minimal harm was done.

Firing sends a particularly strong message.

[WatsonT]

35. Ah but wouldn't stopping him publicly

amount to embarrassing the poor fellow, the worst crime imaginable?

"Firing sends a particularly strong message."

Only if people know why it occurred. Which would requiring announcing it. Which would be public humiliation for the employee. Which is verboten it seems.

Look the OP asked if it would ever be acceptable, I pointed out several scenarios where it would be. Not that it is always a good idea, or even mostly.

But rather that the context matters (hey, I should have said that earlier! Oh right. . )

[MH1]

38. Ok I'll play one more turn

Calling someone into their office is not 'embarrassing' unless of course it can ONLY mean the person is in trouble. Which means the manager is probably a sucky manager anyway.

Firing does send a strong message. If there were not other witnesses to the incident, then no 'message' needs to be sent, because there are already plenty of rules employees are required to read about proper behavior (even if they were raised to be jerks). If there were other witnesses, they'll figure it out pretty quickly. (Come on, you think if someone assaults another employee and then is fired, others can't figure it out?)


But keep trying to find excuses and extreme situations that work for your pov. I've got better things to do. :)

[WatsonT]

39. Um in the scenario lined out

that would be the only conclusion one could draw for bringing the person in.

"If there were not other witnesses to the incident, then no 'message' needs to be sent"

It also wouldn't be public, so doesn't apply to this question.

[sufrommich]

46. That's a ridiculous analogy and you've moved the goalposts.

You've defended publicly embarrassing employees as a good way to keep them in line and when someone disagrees with you, you use an employee who has physically assaulted another as proof that you're reasoning is not out of whack.Of course if someone is being groped on the factory floor a supervisor would do something, why you're comparing that to a supervisor screaming at an employee in public is questionable.

[WatsonT]

66. Not at all

the OP asked a general question.

I said context mattered.

In defense of that I have offered several contexts where it would be acceptable.

The question didn't specify: and the employee doesn't deserve it. If it did that would be a very different poll.

[Angry Dragon]

69. Did you even bother to read the other link before you atarted posting??

[WatsonT]

70. Yes I did

did you bother to read the OP?

It said it was 'inspired' by that link, not that the poll was directed at that specific example.

You saw that right?

[Angry Dragon]

72. Yes I did

So if it was inspired it would make sense that that specific example had a large impact on the poll
Anyone can come up with examples that would tip the poll one way or another

Should a manger shoot an employee that was firing a gun in the office or should they take them into a closed office before they fire them?? So it was done in private.........

Is it wrong to discipline an employee in front of customers?? That is really the question

[WatsonT]

73. That was not the question

I was going off what was actually typed, rather than how you chose to interpret it (I'm not sure how I can be held accountable for your opinion on the subject).

[Angry Dragon]

74. Yes that is the question

the question was about in public
and if you had read the link you would know what the OP meant by public

[WatsonT]

86. Def:

public
- 9 dictionary results
pub·lic
   /ˈpʌblɪk/ Show Spelled Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or affecting a population or a community as a whole: public funds; a public nuisance.
2.
done, made, acting, etc., for the community as a whole: public prosecution.
3.
open to all persons: a public meeting.
4.
of, pertaining to, or being in the service of a community or nation, especially as a government officer: a public official.
5.
maintained at the public expense and under public control: a public library; a public road.
6.
generally known: The fact became public.
7.
familiar to the public; prominent: public figures.
8.
open to the view of all; existing or conducted in public: a public dispute.
9.
pertaining or devoted to the welfare or well-being of the community: public spirit.
10.
of or pertaining to all humankind; universal.

----------------------------

Point out where public is a synonym for customers.

Public could mean amongst other employees (look at all the responses saying it's wrong to embarass them amongst their fellow employees), or out on the street, or among customers, or some combination thereof.

To assume that public = among customers is a tack you have chosen, however it is not in the OP nor is that substantiated by the very definition of the word 'public'. Take it up with Webster if you care to, I don't determine the definitions of words.

[Angry Dragon]

89. Have a nice week

[WatsonT]

92. ok . . .

[Dappleganger]

24. "One public berating would be far more efficient..."

No doubt a public beating would be more "efficient" as well!

Just because someone else does something wrong does that mean it is ok to be unprofessional and humiliating to another human being.

[WatsonT]

26. To repeat my previous analogy:

a manager walks out on the the factory floor to see a male employee groping a female employee, obviously without her consent.

Would he be a total asshole to confront the man, publicly, and order him to stop doing this and behave better?

Or he sees some white employees calling the lone black employee the n-word. He would be wrong to yell at them?

All this would better set the tone that such behavior is unacceptable than a private discussion and possibly mass email would.

If either of those scenarios, you would side with the workers, or the manager?

[Dappleganger]

29. Your examples are ridiculous.

Actually, sexual harassment and hate speech are grounds for instant dismissal in most workplaces but that still does not need to occur in front of everyone watching. Just because one person chooses to act like a low-life is no cause to be unprofessional if you are the manager.

[WatsonT]

33. Ah yes

sexual and racial harassment never happen, how ridiculous of me. What world do you live on? It sounds nicer than this one.

"still does not need to occur in front of everyone watching"

Nice strawman, can I borrow it for a moment? Not all harassment takes place clandestinely, some is out in the open as I've no doubt many on here can personally vouch for (do you deny it?).

The OP made a blanket statement with no qualifiers. Ergo it would take precisely one counter example to disprove it. Meaning that to say it is always unprofessional would be to state that workers never step over the line.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rucky]

17. "In Public" is the context.

[WatsonT]

20. Yeah I got that, it's one factor

not all.

See my several possible scenarios I've listed above for further context.

Consider my statement about the man pounding on an unconscious women. He's a man, beating a women who is unconscious, that's the only context that matters right? He's evil, arrest him.

Well what if he's an EMT trying to get her heart started?

See, context matters.

[rucky]

45. You can use that argument for any poll.

People who vote in polls understand the generality of it. They're not blind to the exceptions, but want to get a consensus on the general sentiment.

[WatsonT]

67. Ah so we shouldn't respond to the poll question

but rather what is assumed to be the poll questions intent?

All I said was "context matters".

Can you disagree with that? Does context never matter, are there precisely zero extinuating circumstances that would make this ok?

If the polls intent was to ask "in general" then perhaps the words should have appeared in the question.

[Vurz]

81. It's pretty easy to tell if it's medical or not

Usually people beating other people up are flailing their arms a little and taking head shots a lot and it's not how you get a heart started, which isn't going to be someone wailing on someone's chest, it's going to be CPR and hoping that the drug you administered into their heart will cause an unstable rhythm you can shock back into a normal heart rhythm. CPR doesn't look like beating someone up. While context matters, this is one you will be able to tell in less than a second.

And yes, in all your other cases, you would ask the person to your office. To yell at them while they are standing next to the person they are being offensive to puts the person being offended in danger.

[WatsonT]

87. So you're saying that there are other details

which would determine how we should respond to witnessing such behavior?

In other words: context matters.

I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you.

[Cirque du So-What]

6. Stop the presses! We got a couple votes for 'no biggie!'

Nothing resembling a defense of the practice, however, which is hardly surprising. It's practically indefensible, yunno, but I'm dying of curiosity as to how one would go about defending it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. Apparently it's okay because it happened to them.

[socialist_n_TN]

7. Well, I picked the unprofessional option, BUT.........

what I REALLY feel like is cold cocking the SHIT out of the mother fucker.

[Cirque du So-What]

11. That's how I feel too

but I don't act on that feeling. I have confronted the assholes, however, and drawn lots of attention to their blatant disregard for both the employee and for anyone within earshot. I've even drawn in bystanders on at least one occasion, who joined me in expressing their contempt.

[socialist_n_TN]

22. Yeah, I wouldn't act on it unless it got physical..............

and if it did get physical, I MIGHT have to intervene on the side of the manager. Of course, I wouldn't be able to intervene in time to prevent a few really good licks gotten in on the douchebag boss though.

I've been a manager before and there's no excuse for public beration of an employee. If you've got a problem that needs to be addressed, address it in private.

[WingDinger]

13. I would berate the manager in public. Telling him to act professional, or I will complain

and ask who to complain to.

[Nikia]

15. Generally unprofessional and disresptful

If there were an immediate situation, however, it could be necessary in some instances. Every effort should be made to bring the employee aside or at least keep it fairly quiet if it isn't possible.
When we went out the other night, I was glad that the manager told the waitress to take care of her other customers, including us, when she was spending a long time (over 15 minutes) chatting with one table. I guess that he could have called her into the kitchen instead, although that would have meant that the neglected customers would have waited even longer.

[Dappleganger]

21. Having been a manager in several places...

I can tell you that this is Manager Training 101, to not ever "call out" a person in front of customers or even other employees for that matter. That goes for folks being late to work (which happens often, but not the most egregious of things) to folks blatantly passing out merchandise out the back door. There are corrective steps to take and be followed to cover everyone and everything, no need to go on a power trip about it. When you do it in public it really does make your company look bad in the eyes of the customer, too. People know this is just basic decency, you don't do certain things in public. Our common sense is aware of this (or at least, MOST of us get it).

[Snoutport]

30. I once had a boss go after me on the sales floor in front of a lady

I was moving boxes and had taken off my jacket. A woman approached me with a question so I helped her and my supervisor saw me jacketless. He laid into me, was really rude, kept on going and then turned to the woman and said, "Don't you think he'd look a better in a jacket?"

She said, "I don't know who you are little man but you are incredibly rude and should go away NOW before I get YOUR boss."

He was flabbergasted, walked away but hated me from that moment on. A few days later I won the big customer service award for the whole store. I accepted it graciously and quit on the spot.

[Dappleganger]

31. Good for you!

I have had more than my share of asshole bosses, and it's always good to hear of those who actually get stood up to by customers.

[woo me with science]

34. I didn't like what the manager did, but "berate" is inaccurate to describe that situation.nt

[AngryOldDem]

40. Praise in public; reprimand in private.

1) It is not the public's business why a particular employee is being reprimanded.

2) No one -- and I mean NO ONE -- deserves a public humiliation.

Why this is even being discussed is beyond me. I saw the post that started this and I am amazed at the simple concept that some didn't apparently grasp. It would have been just as easy to take the employee aside and discuss her tardiness in private. I'm convinced that the kid did it in part because of this woman's age. More disrespect than utter cluelessness, and the manager should be reprimanded as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. I feel like I'm seeing a lousy, weak manager.

Among other things.

[onehandle]

43. Many years ago, I quit a job in less than four hours after witnessing a chew out.

It was my first management role. I had two people reporting to me.

I spent the morning getting to know them and what they did. They were oddly quiet and I could barely get a smile out of them.

Then in the late morning, I heard the owner screaming in the main hallway at someone who had made some sort of mistake. I mean screaming like you would never believe.

In my interview the guy was kind of intense, but friendly.

I left for lunch and called him from the pay phone at a fast food restaurant. I told him that I would not be coming back and he began to scream at me.

I hung up and that was that.

[bettyellen]

52. I changed my mind in mid interview about a job offer after the woman berated an employee in front of

me. She was totally clueless as to why, I was young.... and just I didn't think it was a good atmosphere for me. Yikes. Nasty woman.

[BlueIris]

80. onehandle, you are a smart one. nt

[protect our future]

48. I have a story about this that I'll never forget:

I was poorer than dirt some years ago and the only job I could get was part-time selling donuts at a donut shop in Overland Park, KS. I had to drag myself awake at 4 a.m., off work at noon, spent rest of day and part of night raising my son and entertaining his friends and et cetera, and needless to say the days and nights went by in a sleepy blur of semi-consciousness. So this donut shop was extremely popular and at certain times was mobbed with lines going out the door and three of us working the counter serving donuts and coffee. We were responsible for making the coffee, and we were only supposed to make a limited amount of decaf 'cuz most folks wanted the strong stuff. (FYI, after the mobs left and toward the end of the shift, leftover eye-bugging-out coffee was poured into the now-mostly-empty decaf carafe so customers would think we still had decaf.) So I, in my half asleep/half awake state, made a pot of decaf when I shouldn't have. And this was while we were mobbed. So here comes the boss -- who was sort of tyrannical -- screaming at me for making it, and I knew if I said anything I'd lose the job. I wanted to fall through the floor. So.....what happened next? The very next customer in line shouts out "Decaf!" and then another customer and another customer and pretty soon there wasn't any left. Wow. I loved it. P.S., at a later time this same boss accused me of stealing tips, which I wasn't doing. At that point I'd had enough and quit.


Edited due to I left out a word.

[Curmudgeoness]

49. Not only do I think it it unprofessional, I personally do not

want to hear it. It embarrasses me, it humiliates the employee, and it puts a bad taste in my mouth for the management.

When this has happened in front of me, I have said something right then and there, even interrupting the manager in mid-sentence to let him/her know that I and all the other shoppers do not want to hear personnel issues with an employee. I come right out and tell them that this is something that should be done in private, unless the sole intent is to demean that employee, which demeans that manager even more. I refuse to stand by quietly while this abuse is happening in front of me. And I do not give a shit if the employee deserves it or not. That is not the issue.

[pipi_k]

51. Just wondering...

what sort of responses (if any) you've gotten from the jerks doing this...

I would be happy as hell to know they shut their mouths and slunk away with their tails between their legs...

:7

[Curmudgeoness]

55. Actually, they did shut their mouths. They apologized to me for

upsetting me. I do not know if they did this again, but I got the feeling that it put a mirror up for them to see how this would be perceived by the customers. I thought that they really owed the apology to the employee, but I didn't push that, just in case it would have a backlash.

This has happened on three separate occasions right in front of me in three different locations. They first time I was so shocked that I did and said nothing. But after I had time to think of what my response should have been, I knew what to do the next time I witnessed it. There really is no excuse for this, and I will not be silent again.

[pipi_k]

58. Yeah, that's me too...

If I'm not expecting it to happen, I'm shocked and end up not saying anything.

It's too bad that we have to go around always expecting people to be snotty so we can have an effective reply, but that's the reality of it.

In any case, I'm glad you did speak up when it happened again. No doubt the person being verbally abused went home that night and had a real good story to tell the family about how you let their boss have it... Probably still remember even today.

:)

[Jokinomx]

50. I voted that it is unprofessional ...however...

Some circumstances it could be exactly what had to be done. If an employee was directly observed mistreating a customer for instance. It would have to be severe infraction(possibly one that could cause injury to someone) I think patrons would like to see a manager take the bull by the horns and straighten out the errant employee.

However, for the most part...any discipline should always be done in private. This should be the standard practice in any work environment. I used to work for an owner that basically a couple times a week he would rail on someone in front of all the employees. It was pretty disgusting.

[CTyankee]

54. I think in your scenario, the manager needs to stop the mistreatment of the customer immediately

but it would be perfectly OK for him to say "I want to see you in my office NOW!" in a tone that the customer would know that the manager is going to chew the employee out. The manager should then apologize to the customer and get him/her assistance in finished their shopping and then go and privately fire the employee in no uncertain terms but in PRIVATE. That way, the customer gets vindication, the employee is taken care of appropriately and the manager has achieved all objectives.

[Jokinomx]

57. I agree....:-)

[Initech]

53. It's happened to me on multiple occasions.

But what really pisses me off is when I point this out to my boss, I'm the one at fault. :grr:

[Rex]

56. GREAT.

I always side with The Company! Humans make mistakes, companies are too big to fail!

[Zax2me]

59. I voted no biggie because...

Honestly, I just don't see it.
Eating out, grocery shopping, retail - haven't been witness.
I question the fact that it happens enough to merit debate.
What debate?
You don't do it.
Does it happen?
I'm sure, but really, how often...
Not very.

[protect our future]

91. How often? Quite often at the donut shop in Kansas where I worked!

The "counter girls" were berated in front of customers at various times (except for one, who happened to be the boss' sister).

[Populist_Prole]

61. Back when I was 18 I was berated in front of a customer just for show

I was a gas attendant at a service station/repair shop ( remember those? ) Read me the riot act because I didn't drop what I was doing for other customers to attend to this one jerk that couldn't wait his turn.

Was later told by another of the co-owners that it really wasn't meant against me as such, but to pacify that certain customer who, while a demanding SOB, throws a lot of bucks their way. Basically I was berated just to make it look like they were taking action for his demands.

Assholes. Never felt the same way about either of them from then on.

[ohheckyeah]

62. I chewed

a manager out for chewing out an employee in public. I embarrassed the hell out of her.

[taught_me_patience]

68. Sickening

We are all humans and should be treated with dignity and respect. The world would be a lot better if people followed the golden rule.

[flvegan]

71. Empowered.

Because I'll give that member of management a solid dressing down if I witness it. As a people manager, I know what I'm talking about. As a customer, I wield a lot of power at that moment.

[mrmpa]

75. I've called managers out on this

I was at the Post Office a number of years back on a Saturday. The Postmaster was berating a clerk, loudly and within sight. I knew the clerk from going to this PO on a daily basis. I yelled to the postmaster, to stop it, if he needed to talk to her, do it in private. The postmaster, then walked away.

I didn't stop there, I followed it up with a letter to the head honcho for this region, the conclusion to my letter was that if this is the way employees were treated, then it was understandable why the term "going postal" had entered the English language. The clerk thanked me for intervening & I told her I had written a letter. I never received a written response from the head honcho, but the postmaster was transferred.

I also learned that my letter had become known throughout the region. While talking to my brother (post office clerk), about the bad management at his station, I told him about the incident I had observed and the letter I had written. His response was a look of amazement and "you wrote that letter?" "that postmaster was transferred and eventually fired.

It's a tough decision on what to do. It's like when you see a kid being verbally or physically abused in public, you weigh the odds, because you don't know what the response of the parent might be.

[LadyHawkAZ]

76. "Praise in public, criticize in private"

Anything else is unprofessional at best, harassment at worst.

[HEyHEY]

79. Angry. n/t

[Enthusiast]

82. Before labor unions

management commonly beat women and children employees. It's slippery slope.

[jp11]

83. Berating people is unprofessional in a work environment in public OR private.

If someone is berating an employee or coworker they should be disciplined themselves regardless of why they were berating the other person.

[LoZoccolo]

88. I voted "no biggie" because it is a false choice.

If an employee was abusive to a customer I wouldn't think that this was unprofessional.

[ClassWarrior]

90. Any good children's program teaches leaders to praise in public and discipline in private.

Only makes sense for management-employee relations, too.

NGU.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

94. I was griped at by a manager on the sales floor at Foley's.

Big dept. store, now eaten by Macy's.

I was working in a lease department, Fine Jewelry (I was so ashamed of the crap they sold).

I was behind the counter, and the female manager came up and started hollering in my face. We are both short.
I started crying uncontrollably due to the stress of putting up with this witch. She started yelling at me "STOP CRYING STOP CRYING STOP CRYING STOP CRYING!!".

Well, I couldn't stop. That was too bad. She never said anything positive to anyone that I could see. The store was open but it was deserted, so if anyone saw it it was the employees.

She griped at me until I had had enough. I walked out one day and hid in bed for a month and refused to answer her phone calls. I had post traumatic stress. After a month I went back in to formally resign and she griped at me then.

I am unemployable due to the stress I've been through from bastard bosses for decades, and the fact that in Corporate America, if you show initiative or intelligence, you will be punished for it.

[Taitertots]

95. Anyone who yells at or berates employees shouldn't be in management

They clearly lack the interpersonal skills to manage employees.

If I wanted to hear an asshole I'd stay at home and fart.

[yurbud]

97. I got in the face of a boss for doing this once and yelled at him until he sat down and I was

leaning over his desk telling him off.

[AsahinaKimi]

99. A problem never gets solved when someone is blamed.

A problem is solved when people FIX the problem.

[readmoreoften]

100. My real answer wasn't on the list and would be deleted.