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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:12 PM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Tweets, Day 19 (or 21*), Part 1
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 10:37 PM by Catherina
Libyan Revolution Tweets, Day 19 (or 21*), Part 1

#Feb17 Youth organizers invite Gaddafi's collaborators to stand under his umbrella ella ella ella ella ella http://bit.ly/faa34E

"We have Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. Plan A is to live and die in Libya. Plan B is to live and die in Libya. Plan C is to live and die in Libya."
- Saif Islam Qaddafi
during interview

*I called this Day 19 because the official start date was #Feb17 but events kicked off 2 days earlier.

Previous Day 18 threads: Part 1, Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6, Part 7

The world’s 100 largest arms dealers, excluding Chinese vendors, sold weapons for $401 billion in 2009, with US vendors in first place

Threads for Days 1-18 are in my journal

"I was born in Tunisia, I persevered in Egypt, I sacrificed myself in Libya, I have fought in Yemen&Bahrain. I am Freedom, I will not die."
- Libyan4life Jeel Ghathub


MAP of Protests across the Middle East


Military Installations

Oil Map

Click here for updated and interactive map

Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries

Please rec if you read these so I know if the effort here is worth it.

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. "UNITED LIBYA UNITED" --
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Rec
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't think any of you guys ever sleep!
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 10:33 PM by Catherina
Was just answering Lithos in the last thread and closing all the windows that were open. Sorry for the delay.

I need about 5 minutes to change one of the maps in the OP.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hehe, how about *you*? You're here like 24/7.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Catherina doesn't need sleep--she subsists on the blood of tyrants
:evilgrin:





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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. !!!!!
:rofl:

Well, sadly, the supply isn't likely to give out...:(
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Heh.
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 11:35 PM by Ghost Dog
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Can't sleep. This serious. Might cut off my Moroccan Hash supply!
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 11:00 PM by Ghost Dog
(But, growing own already again now). :hi:

(Psst: In France they have Afgan, they say, and occasionally Lebanese. Different mafias organizations (like: US military/coverts), I guess).

Thats's irony.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Allow me to offer some light, no, heavy, relief, by way of poetry;
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks. Will watch in between tweets or after catching up :) n/t
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. Surmon (small town west of Zawiya) Opposition forces captured about 50 and killed 50 mercenaries
feb17libya Feb17Libya
Breaking out of Surmon (small town west of Zawiya) Opposition forces captured about 50 and killed 50 mercenaries #Feb17 #Libya
1 hour ago
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Great slide show of #Libya 'n Opposition fighters
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 10:48 PM by Catherina
rkdoctr Human Rights
Great slide show of #Libya 'n Opposition fighters http://goo.gl/PolnY
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

There are more pictures at the link and in larger/smaller sizes.












http://www.flickr.com/photos/nassernouri/sets/72157626085462989/show/
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
42. Thanks for posting these wonderful pictures.
I just reposted the link on another forum with this caption: "These are a very high-quality pictures, and it's so moving to see the faith, determination and heroism of these people."

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necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Any chance
of additional mobile attack/relief forces being formed and attacking at different points(!!) -- or, more generally, of more pressure and pressure at different points(!!) -- so there's less adversary freedom-of-movement: the less flexibility they have, the better (this will also tend to show up any lack of resources, in general or particular). These forces don't have to amount to much in strictly military terms (although well-crewed aa guns are highly desirable, for pilot intimidation if nothing else); but always send recon forces ahead and to the sides; and if these get pinned down, try to flank the adversary (if not too powerful); however, he maybe expecting this, so use care.

In some cases, I think orders to opposition forces simply won't come in a timely manner; so organize yourselves, try to maintain even the slightest initiative, movement and/or momentum; and as a guideline, "march to the sound of the guns". It's way better to be coordinated, but if you can tie down even 100 adversaries, then these can't be used elsewhere. However, don't be reckless, and think things through.

Are 4WD paths (like in the desert) being used for or against (ie, watch your flanks, any lines of attack besides roads); use local knowledge, expertise.

Even the smallest attacks on besieging forces by outside popular-forces can boost the morale of the besieged, perhaps trying to hit ammo/fuel vehicles, then taking good cover... or running away under such; many things can provide cover from observation/attack, including dark (observation only), bad weather (observation only), terrain (observation/attack).

You can set up helicopter (...) traps by hiding your aa guns (...), drawing helicopters in and then nailing them (fire in the direction of their flight; if possible "box" them... but helos are maneuverable).

The shovel and sandbag can be of tremendous value. And even those in armored vehicles should dig themselves in (or otherwise seek protection from attack) when halted for any period of time. Don't make easy targets; expect counterattack.

Sentries/observation-posts are essential (advanced OP's are great, but at risk); with mobility, almost any point can be attacked. And I'm not 100% confident that the precise positions of all enemy forces are known to all who should know. (Recon was meant as recon (scouting), warning, observation, fire control/spotting -- and anything else related to acquiring the tactical information you need.)

It's best only to fire when you can maximally damage the adversary. And when you really want to do damage, draw them in (or catch them unaware, like on patrol), and then fire from prepared positions on preplanned fields of fire.

The closer you get to winning, the clearer it is that you're going to win, the more likely it is that holdouts will join you. And people's perspective on this depends on whether you or the bandits (really) control the area (troops not suitable for attacking can do this... with appropriate revo support), are nearby in force.

Advice is a two-edged sword...
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. They have help on that front
Some guy's passing on to then techniques that worked for the Chechens and guerilla tactics. They did really well at Mistrata. The problem now, imo, is that they're under equipped and can't break into the town. Gaddafi's people using women and children as human shields was another barrier.

I think they absorbed your post before you even wrote it. They did a lot of that at Mistrata yesterday.

They're up against Gaddafi's best, most loyal troops at Sirte. UK and US trained.

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necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. I read something
that suggested reinforcements were sent to battle the column as it pushed west. If these reinforcements had been tied up, slowed down or blocked, they may not have got there in time...

Also, as time passes, the need for relief supplies grows greater, and new methods for getting (sneaking) them in (like by sea, at night) will have to be thought of and implemented.

The regime's resources seem limited so far (it's impossible for me to know what's being held back), and it would be a shame to lose any near-run thing, no matter how small in the overall picture, when a little extra push might have made the difference.

Yeah, more impressive efforts; surprised some no doubt -- irregulars doing well.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:52 PM
Original message
free internet access for Libya/ pass it on
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks Sacha. They have that. Telecomix has been working very closely with them
The hard part for them is getting that information to the people cut off on the ground.

Gaddafi's son owns the telecommunications in Libya and has a tight grip on it. Internet and cell phone's aren't working, only landlines and those are listened to.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. reminds me of the days i'd play "counter strike" in #libya. guess all that gaming paid off :)
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 10:53 PM by Catherina
IbnOmar2005 Ibn Omar
http://tinyurl.com/4nuyk33 reminds me of the days i'd play "counter strike" in #libya. guess all that gaming paid off :)
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Tims are changing, the internet is changing everything. So awesome.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. #Kerry urges #Libya #nofly zone plan
libyaoutreach Libya Outreach
#Kerry urges #Libya #nofly zone plan http://aje.me/gVt4Ws
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Kerry urges Libya no-fly zone plan
Chairman of US senate foreign relations committee says such plan should be readied to protect population from Gaddafi.
Last Modified: 07 Mar 2011 01:30 GMT


While rebel groups push for a no-fly zone, they claim to be against foreign ground troops in Libya

A prominent US senator has said that the United States and its allies should plan for a no-fly zone over Libya and consider bombing the country's airports and runways.

John Kerry, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, made the comments on Sunday, but added that no action should be taken unless an international agreement is reached.

He also said that taking out runways and airports could be an effective tactic, and added that a no-fly zone would not amount to full-blown military intervention.

He said, however, that moving against Libyan air defences should only be done if Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi, were to use his air force as a means to target civilians.

...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/201136235322910617.html
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Senator #Kerry & Senator McCain Firstly.Thanks. Hope you give that man Mr O a shout because I think
Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 10:58 PM by Catherina
FreeLibyanman FreeLibyan
Senator #Kerry & Senator McCain Firstly.Thanks 4 supporting inn ppl 2ed Hope you give that man Mr O a shout because I think he lost it.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply


FreeLibyanman FreeLibyan
why u insisted on troops on ground, while u can make it with your advanced air forces. it is even better for the safety of your soldiers.
1 hour ago


This one sounds very young.
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gaddafi has killed around 6000 innocent ppl in in 3 weeks
FreeLibyanman FreeLibyan
by Catherina_Guate
#Gaddafi has killed around 6000 innocent ppl in in 3 weeks and #UN lead by the Hopeless & Useless Mr #Obama still hesitant to do anything!!!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
18.  Libyan revolutionaries brace for longterm war against Gaddafi, Benghazi airport reopens within days
SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
Asharq Al Awsat: Libyan revolutionaries brace for longterm war against Gaddafi, Benghazi airport reopens within days http://bit.ly/dHuWAg Ar
52 minutes ago


too hard to paste this translation. Sorry.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. #Benghazi has only enough food and fuel for 5 days, after that.. crisis point will b reached.
Tripolitanian Libyan
Friend of a friend in #Benghazi: They have only enough food and fuel for 5 days, after that.. crisis point will b reached. Need aid.
50 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. About US$17 million is on the table for #Gaddafi capture, dead or alive (preferred alive)

Tripolitanian Libyan
About US$17 million is on the table for #Gaddafi capture, dead or alive (preferred alive) #Libya (this is a serious twt, no joke)
49 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


I'm on my way!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. Saudi foreign minister visits Qatar Emir to discuss matters of mutual concern
SultanAlQassemi Sultan Al Qassemi
QNA: Saudi foreign minister visits Qatar Emir to discuss matters of mutual concern http://bit.ly/e9EX6x I wonder if 'Al Jazeera' came up
41 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Emir meets Saudi foreign minister



HH the Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani holding talks with Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal at the Al-Wajbah Palace yesterday. The meeting was attended by HE the Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabor al-Thani. Talks dealt with ways to develop bilateral relations and matters of mutual concern.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=420324&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56


There's a previous post in yesterday's threads. Matters of mutual concern included fighting drugs. I wonder if hallucinogenics are on the list.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. This guy is as delusional as it gets:
Shnesh Sarah Hnesh
This guy is as delusional as it gets: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011362186155924.html #Gaddafi #Libya #Feb17
32 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Gaddafi seeks UN probe into unrest
Libyan leader says UN or AU should launch an investigation into unrest rocking his country.
Last Modified: 06 Mar 2011 04:06 GMT


Gaddafi has repeatedly labelled anti-government forces as "terrorists"

...

"First of all I would like that an investigatory commission of the United Nations or the African Union comes here to Libya," he said. "We will let this panel work unhampered."

Gaddafi said he would be in favour of France "co-ordinating and leading" the investigation.

...

"I am surprised that nobody understands that this is a fight against terrorism.

"Our security services co-operate. We have helped you a lot these past few years. So why is it that when we are in a fight against terrorism here in Libya no one helps us in return?"

...


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011362186155924.html
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
24. Opposition forces have a lot of heart, but not training or sophisticated weapons, need air support
EnoughGaddafi Enough Gaddafi
Opposition forces have a lot of heart, but not training or sophisticated weapons, need air support #libya #feb17
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. #UN #BanKimoon calls for urgent access to #Libyan areas affected by violence

libyaoutreach Libya Outreach
#Libya #Benghazi #UN #BanKimoon calls for urgent access to #Libyan areas affected by violence shar.es/3zCI7
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. SAS and MI6 officers released by #Libya rebels Big embarrassment for UK govt.
nytjim Jim Roberts
SAS and MI6 officers released by #Libya rebels gu.com/p/2nhf6/tw (via @guardian) Big embarrassment for UK govt.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama...u are a such a disappointment on so many levels.
Shnesh Sarah Hnesh
Obama...u are a such a disappointment on so many levels. http://tiny.cc/r4kpj #Libya #Feb17
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

MARCH 6, 2011, 7:57 P.M. ET
Obama's Libyan Abdication
Will the U.S. let Gadhafi slaughter his way back to power? Will the U.S. let Gadhafi slaughter his way back to power?

The battle for Libya has reached a bloody impasse. Moammar Gadhafi continues to hold Tripoli, but his sons and mercenaries have been unable to break the uprising or retake the country's east. Having loudly declared that Gadhafi "needs to step down from power and leave," President Obama now seems to have retreated into a bizarre but all too typical passivity.

We say bizarre because the U.S. has already announced its preferred outcome, yet it is doing little to achieve this end. The greatest danger now to U.S. interests—and to Mr. Obama's political standing—would be for Gadhafi to regain control. A Libya in part or whole under the Gadhafi clan would be a failed, isolated and dangerous place ruled by a vengeful tyrant and a likely abettor of terrorists. We presume that's what Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meant the other day when she said that "one of our biggest concerns is Libya . . . becoming a giant Somalia."

Ghadafi can also only prevail at this stage through a murderous campaign that will make U.S. passivity complicit in a bloodbath. Media reports relate stories of his secret police terrorizing Tripoli's population and killing indiscriminately. Al Jazeera is already comparing the West's failure to act in Libya to the slaughter of Iraq's marsh Arabs in 1991 and of the Bosnian Muslims by Serbs later that decade.

The Administration is explaining its reluctance to act by exaggerating the costs and the risks. It rolled out Pentagon chief Robert Gates last week to mock "loose talk" of military options. "It's a big operation in a big country," he said. "We also have to think about, frankly, the use of the U.S. military in another country in the Middle East." Centcom Commander James Mattis offered a similar warning.

...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704005404576176861610325024.html



This is a terrible article! Blatantly unfair too.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Can't win for losing. This looks like a nasty opinion peice and the writer is unnamed.
I wonder if it's fucking Chaney himself.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. My guess was McCain. n/t
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Murdoch owns the WSJ
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. PHOTO: Shrapnel nearly hits anti-Gaddafi fighters outside Bin Jawad yesterday

Shrapnel from heavy shelling nearly hits anti-Gaddafi fighters outside Bin Jawad during fierce fighting yesterday (Reuters)






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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. That is an iconic photo. COURAGE in a photo.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. Iconic, indeed! Up there with Capa's "Falling Soldier," imo.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Put probably without the debate surrounding its authenticity.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Sure; Capa's photo is probably staged, so was the photo of the dead Confederate at Devil's Den.
Both still iconic, though.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. realize opposition forces need better weapons, but am hesitant >>
EnoughGaddafi Enough Gaddafi
realize opposition forces need better weapons, but am hesitant about countries wanting to push more weapons in2 #libya, sounds fishy #feb17
12 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


everyone's 2 big fears in #libya: long-term foreign occupation and #gaddafi and outside forces manufacturing divisions #feb17
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'm going to sleep for a few hours >
My 2 best night tweets for this time of night are sick and resting The rest is mostly chatter or stuff that came out earlier. And it's really really slow.

I think it's a good time to go catch some zzzzzzs :hi:

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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. nite Catherina
:hug:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Rest well. We'll keep it kicked.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Thanks both of you, all of you. I'll say a prayer tonight. "Please let tomorrow be decisive"
See you soon. Goodnight.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
41. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA is 7 AM Monday, March 7
Libya time is EST +7 hours, PST +10 hours.





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
44. Libya: anti-Gaddafi rebels release SAS troops


Libya: anti-Gaddafi rebels release SAS troops
Sunday 06 March 2011

Anti-Gaddafi rebels in Benghazi have tonight released an SAS team captured in eastern Libya. But why did they arrive by helicopter and at night when they could have entered the country by land?

The captured SAS troops were accompanying a group of diplomats who came to the country to establish links with the new council running eastern Libya, according to Channel 4 News Foreign Affairs Editor Lindsey Hilsum.

...


The Foreign Office claims the diplomatic mission was not covert but completely open. It has also confirmed tonight that the eight men have been released and left on HMS Cumberland, which is in Benghazi to evacuate stranded foreigners.

http://www.channel4.com/news/libya-antigaddafi-rebels-seize-sas-troops







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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
45. AJE Libya Live Blog March 7:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
46. NYT: U.S. Weighs Options, on Air and Sea
Military Analysis
U.S. Weighs Options, on Air and Sea


By THOM SHANKER
Published: March 6, 2011

WASHINGTON — American military planners are sifting through a range of options as the United States, like other Western nations, weighs the response to the bloody Libyan military assaults on rebels trying to oust Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi.

Rebel commanders have begged for American strikes on troops and weapons that have turned on civilians and assaulted strongholds of the resistance. And on Sunday, three influential members of the United States Senate, from both parties, renewed the call for a no-flight zone to ground the Libyan Air Force and prevent it from attacking its people. They also pressed the Obama administration for a more aggressive response, including supplying intelligence, arms and training to the rebels.

The defense secretary, Robert M. Gates, and top commanders have warned of political fallout if America again attacks a Muslim nation, even to support a popular revolt. So military planners on the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and in its field commands are offering a broad range of approaches, depending on how events play out in Libya and how tough the United States and its allies want to be.

Even without firing a shot, a relatively passive operation using signal-jamming aircraft in international airspace could muddle Libyan government communications with military units. Administration officials said Sunday that preparations for such an operation were under way.


More plus interactive map of how the rebellion is unfolding, day by day:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/world/middleeast/07military.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss





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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. "Rebel commanders have begged for American strikes on troops and weapons..."
This is what confuses me; are the opposition leaders speaking with one voice on this, or are attitudes toward US involvement changing?

I know they have asked for a "no-fly zone," but are they also now asking for direct strike-aircraft support at ground targets? I know they have said they don't want Western boots-on-the-ground.

Disrupting Gaddafi's commo could be very helpful, as long as it can be focused on pro-Gaddafi forces.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. One voice? I mean, even if it was just one faction, no doubt strikes on troops and weapons...
...would help the opposition. Take out all the tanks, for instance, you just solved a big problem for the opposition / revolutionaries. But you also kill about 200-300 people by doing so. The west is obviously reluctant to act because they don't want those causalities to come back to bite them. Especially if just one opposition faction denounced the west for acting (which would of course invariably happen).

The only short term course of action right now is to wait and see how this thing pans out, and get involved if the tides don't turn in due course (through something like NATO involvement). If that happens, which I hope and pray it doesn't come to, the whole fucking Libyan revolution will be de-legitimized. Anti-American states will be "blaming NATO for atrocities" and the whole thing will come full circle, and the whole world will forget how hard the Libyans did fight up until that point of intervention.

To answer your question more directly, the direct strike and no-fly-zone proposal was made the same day that they said "no intervention." What they mean by "no intervention" is no troops on the ground, and no planes may land (though if a pilot is compromised they'd host them and protect them). This proposal is around a week old now, but ultimately they haven't actually called for this from the intrim council, which purports to represent the Libyan revolutionaries.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. I wasn't aware that surgical strikes were suggested at the same time as the call for a no-fly zone.
I simply wondered if the call for help was expanding into other options per the opposition forces.

I just heard a speaker from Misurata (via phone on Al Jazeera) call for help with specific, targeted strikes; I wonder how widespread this is among the leadership; the benefit to precision strikes is obvious, as is the proposed no-fly zone.

I could easily be misinterpreting, but you sound irritated that I asked the question.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Hit the AJE Libya Live Blog, I think it was around March 3.
Maybe a bit sooner? The no-fly-zone was conjured a little earlier than that, but not by anyone who one could say was a representative of the revolutionaries.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. Thanks; I'll check it out. I've been depending on Cathrina's updates
and Al Jazeera's live broadcasts, when I have the time.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. My browser is crashing on me and I don't want to close it...
...cause I have "Libya: A state of terror" already fully buffered. But anyway I went back to March 3 and I can be sure that it was stated at the earliest before Feb. 28, so if you want to look for the exact date and time go from there. I'd keep looking for it but I don't want to restart my browser.

BTW, here's Libya: A state of terror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UodjAs8mEPs

Going to watch it before laying down, it's been buffered in my web browser for a good 4 hours now, keep forgetting to watch.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. No problems. Hope your browser holds up. I suppose the salient issue
is what the opposition forces call for now, and how the world responds.

Al Jazeera is reporting from benghazi that there is concern that the rebels have advanced so far away from Benghazi, leaving the city less well defended. Hopefully, Gaddafi has no significant amphibious capacity, or helicopter-lift capability from Sirte.

I've been concerned about the speed of this advance for a couple of days; there are obvious benefits and dangers inherent in a rapid advance. Just my opinion.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. I don't think Benghazi has any chance of falling, the revolution started there.
And it is completely anti-Gaddafi. As far as actions are concerned, I have no doubts the revolutionaries would love to see some tanks and pro-Gaddafi forces blown up, but so far they haven't called for it as far as I know. I don't think such actions would be taken for weeks if at all. As far as a no-fly-zone specifically I don't think Gaddafi's air forces are too big of a threat, yet. Once the revolutionaries lose a good number of men to the jets you can expect more pressure to implement a no-fly-zone. The west will be hard pressed not to provide it (simply hitting the air bases would suffice, it wouldn't harm helicopter movement but it would stall jet movement for days if not weeks; helis are a bit easier to defend against because the revolutionaries do have anti-air guns that they took from Gaddafi's forces and a 50 year old man "took down a jet on his first try").

I'm hoping that the revolutionaries continue advancing through Sirt; that's what we'll have to keep an eye out on the coming days.
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. I. too, hope they advance through Sirt. The concern being expressed now on Al Jazeera
is that Gaddafi's forces are drawing the rebels into a trap at Sirt. Hopefully, the rebels will prevail without heavy loss.

This is the point where some good, high-resolution, real-time satellite intelligence would be worth its weight in gold.
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hardcover Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. Thanks for clarifying, The western world should not intervene.
The Arab League should be doing that.
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hardcover Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. That surprised me too.
Where did the NYT get that? I don't believe it.
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Good Morning!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. AJE has covered this extensively, read the Live Blog for links to various reports about it.
It's not new by any means.
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hardcover Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. thanks, I'll read it n/t
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
55. UN Ban Ki-moon in action: A UN-team will go in Tripoli
NEW YORK-The CEO of the United Nations,persuaded the Libyan Government Sunday to allow a team to look at the humanitarian situation in Tripoli.
UN Ban Ki-moon appointed the Jordanian former Minister Abdelilah Al-Khatib as his Special Envoy for this. He is already very soon to the Libyan capital for the crisis to assess on the spot.
Ban Ki-moon did at the same time a call to cease hostilities. He had a telephone conversation with the Libyan Foreign Minister Mussa Kussa. He also asked for uplifting restrictions on the media. The Libyan Government went on those requests.


Ban Ki-moon also spoke with the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi himself, but could not convince him to stop with the tough approach of the opposition groups
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
61. A tribute to the Libyan Uprising of February 17 2011
Libya - Libyan Uprising (Feb17)
http://www.youtube.com/user/EnoughLibya
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
66. Arabiya: Gaddafi forces advance towards Ras Lanuf under military air cover
Arabiya: Gaddafi forces advance towards Ras Lanuf under military air cover
Tripoli ~ Libya | an hour ago
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
67. Gaddafi counter-offensives raise civil war fears
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:04 AM
Response to Original message
68. 'Gaddafi pays mercenaries from Syria to kill rebels'
'Gaddafi pays mercenaries from Syria to kill rebels'
By JPOST.COM STAFF
03/07/2011 10:07


Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi is using paid mercenaries from Serbia, Syria, the Ukraine and Romania to attack rebels, Asharq al-Awsat reported.

Syria denied the claims, according to Israel Radio.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
69. Good luck, Libya.
*sleeps*
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JanDutchy Donating Member (593 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
70. Libyan sources: Gaddafi to resort to the Interim National Council to secure his release
Libyan sources: Gaddafi to resort to the Interim National Council to secure his release

According to www.aawsat.com

http://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aawsat.com%2F
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
71. Pro-Gadhafi forces launch airstrike on rebels
Pro-Gadhafi forces launch airstrike on rebels

By PAUL SCHEMM, Associated Press – 1 hr 3 mins ago

RAS LANOUF, Libya – Forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi have launched an airstrike against a rebel position in a key oil port.

There were no casualties in the Monday morning attack in Ras Lanouf.

Libyan rebels say they are regrouping after forces loyal to Gadhafi pounded opposition fighters with helicopter gunships, artillery and rockets on Sunday to stop the rebels' rapid advance toward the capital.

Sunday's fighting appeared to signal the start of a new phase in the conflict, with Gadhafi's regime unleashing its air power on the rebel force trying to oust the ruler of 41 years. Resorting to heavy use of air attacks signaled the regime's concern that it needed to check the advance of the rebel force toward Sirte — Gadhafi's hometown and stronghold.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/ap_on_re_af/af_libya_275






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
72. Misurata holds, as regime forces regroup outside the city for future attacks
Abdel Basset Abu Zouriq, a spokesperson of the opposition, told Al Jazeera on Monday that Misurata was still under control of opposition forces.

Pro-Gaddafi forces are still somewhere outside the city, regrouping for future attacks.

He said that the city was anti-Gaddafi in general and so government forces could only attack the city or invade it for few hours and then withdraw.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-7





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
73. Air strike hits near Ras Lanuf as more try to flee Libya
Air strike hits near Ras Lanuf as more try to flee Libya

By the CNN Wire Staff
March 7, 2011 6:04 a.m. EST

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Violent strife in Libya continued Monday as an air strike hit about five kilometers southeast of the rebel-controlled town Ras Lanuf.

Planes flew over the area, and opposition forces fired anti-aircraft guns in their direction. Some families fled the eastern Libyan oil town to get away from the situation.

...

"The Secretary-General is deeply concerned about the fighting in western Libya, which is claiming large numbers of lives and threatens even more carnage in the days ahead," the statement said. "He notes that civilians are bearing the brunt of the violence, and calls for an immediate halt to the Government's disproportionate use of force and indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets."

On Sunday, opposition forces in Libya claimed a major victory, managing to block an onslaught by Gadhafi's troops and maintain control of the key city of Misrata, an eyewitness said.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/07/libya.conflict/index.html?hpt=T1






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
74. Fierce fighting rages in Libya (Sunday)
Fierce fighting rages in Libya

Opposition forces across the country are battling forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi in their bid to overthrow his regime.


Last Modified: 07 Mar 2011 12:09 GMT < 7:09 PM Sunday EST >

Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the country's long-time leader, have been staging a fightback against opposition forces, taking the town of Bin Jawad and moving on to the oil port of Ras Lanuf.

Witnesses have also told Al Jazeera that Az Zawiyah, in the west of the country near the capital Tripoli, was under heavy attack by government forces.

There has been fierce fighting in Misurata, located between Tripoli and Gaddafi's hometown Sirte, with reports of at least 18 people killed.

However, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland, reporting from the town of Brega, said that the opposition forces had advantages in terms of "their sheer number, patriotism and enthusiam".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/20113711929686158.html






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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
75. Part 2 here
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
76. Part 2 here
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
77. K&R & thanks, Catherina. (nt)
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