I have a simple way to balance the budget... and NO ONE will mention it...

[Jokinomx]

Tax churches and all the property they own and control. To say that church organizations are not businesses for profit is denying the truth. Maybe an exemption for small individual churches...but those mega churches and televangelists reap tens of millions in tax free income. They support lavish lifestyles for many con artists.

Just saying...

[Libby2]

1. Amen! I'm all for it. n/t

[jtown1123]

2. Good idea in theory, but I doubt it would be a big revenue raiser. Raise taxes on millionaires

and end massive tax deductions on Corporations whose majority work force is overseas.

[Demeter]

3. Stop the Stupid Wars and Close the Military Bases Abroad

[JuniperLea]

4. Any church that has ever politicked from the pulpet...

Should absolutely be taxed.

And far too many of them are doing exactly that. It's not in keeping with the "Give unto Caesar" message Jesus taught anyway!

[bluestateguy]

5. This would have a lot of unintended consequences

Churches would then charge membership dues, and the more liberal mainline churches would be driven out of business.

Rick Warren and John Hagee's churches have plenty of money and they would be able to pay the taxes just fine, but the liberal mainline Protestant churches already have a hard time generating revenue, paying the bills and making payroll. A tax bill could finish them off for good, while leaving the big evangelical churches untouched.

[Jokinomx]

8. I agree... unitended consquences occur all the time.. however as I stated...

the smaller individual churches could have some type of sheltering... but those big mega churches... they have proven they are in it for profit and those that run them have pretty comfy lives.

Just my opinion.....

[bobbolink]

12. It would also close shelters and food banks, etc. that churches run.

As well as day care centers, and a lot of other services churches provide for poor people.

You want to make up the difference in those funds?

[Jokinomx]

13. I understand..... but you have to admit that some churches

are a front for a tax free income. It is fraud that has pretty much been allowed to continue because no one knows how to really deal with this issue.

As I stated in another post... the LDS Church owns a vast amount of land in Utah and various states. They don't pay any taxes on it.

For example...Most if not all High Schools in Utah have located in close proximity to the school a church owned chuck of property for a seminary. That seminary is made at the same time as the school and generally is made out of the same materials as the school is constructed of. Students are then allowed to take time during the day to attend that seminary. In the past they even got HS credits for attending, although they don't anymore.

Why have parochial schools when you can have a sweet deal like that?

Anyway... My point is that not all church organizations are small and poor. Some exploit the system.

[bobbolink]

14. DUers are supposedly smart enough and mature enough to know the difference between the

RW churches and the traditional "mainline" churches.
This has been explained to death on DU, and those who don't get it are WILLFULLY being confused.

[joshcryer]

16. So exempt churches that run food banks and shelters and day care centers...

...and what other services you find positive.

Then more churches will be compelled to provide those services.

[madmax]

6. YES!! Been sayin - for years

Many churches especially the Roman Catholic church pay no taxes on real estate holdings, stocks, bonds and other investments. That should ALL be taxed. The only thing tax-exempt imo should be the acutal building used for worship and the land it sits on PERIOD.

[HereSince1628]

7. Remove loopholes to get corporations to pay their share.

Creating "business friendly" communities, states or nation is simply a buzz phrase for letting our newest US personhood to be a very exceptional anti-social citizen.

[KansDem]

9. For "separation of church and state," don't tax the churches...

Doing so would give them validity to "politic from the pulpit." They would say "We can say God wants this person for president because we pay taxes."

Having said that, don't tax churches but actively pursue and prosecute any churches that do politicking within the sanctuary...

edited for word choice

[Jokinomx]

10. Well..your correct ..However....

I lived in Utah for several years.... the Morman church pretty much controls the state and owns a large portion of it. Utah has one of the lowest privately owned property in the nation. Most is Federal and State land ...however the "Church" owns a vast amount. All tax free.

I see televangelists like Peter Popov claiming that if you sprinkle a some of his "holy water" he gives people that untold financial rewards will be bestowed upon the individual. He has already been tried and convicted of fraud...but he just changes his tactics a bit and he is at it again.

We have mega churches that rake in tens of millions to support a few very fat cats that run the organization.

As far as churches preaching a political view... they do it all the time anyway... lets treat them as the businesses that they are.

[Jmaxfie1]

15. I agree, their tax free status is conditional and should be conditional on their staying out...

of politics. By politics I mean actual electioneering. I believe churches have the right to speak out on issues, but they shouldn't be allowed to endorse candidates or political parties.

[kgnu_fan]

11. Simpler -- Stop Wars, spend money for people here nt

[quaker bill]

17. No, and there are good progressive reasons

Quakers were among those who protested and died to get religion and government separated. At that time in England, the tithe was the tax, and attending the state church and paying the tithe was mandatory. You did go to prison for failing to attend and pay up.

Because you were not attending, you could not be legally married, so your kids were not legitimate heirs, and when you died the state took all your property.

The bottom line, government now spends a great deal of money and time promoting business, because business makes jobs and jobs provide tax revenue.

Shift this a bit, if attending church and putting money in the plate becomes a way that government gets tax revenue, government will quickly begin promoting church attendance in the same way they sell lottery tickets, and provide tax deals and incentives to business.

There are very good progressive reasons to never go near opening this "pandora's box".

[Jokinomx]

18. Thanks for your perspective...

I can't disagree with you. The reason that I made the post in the first place is not the small individual churches..... I just completely disagree that they can own so much property and take in ungodly amounts of money without paying taxes. Churches still use societies services such as police and firemen.

In some cases... religion is used to cover the big business aspect of these organizations.

[quaker bill]

19. Friends Meetings are small

and our organization is an inverse heirarchy with the most power centered at the local Meeting, so money does not accumulate upward. Some Meetings own valuable property, but largely because they have been Meeting in the same building for 300 years and it happens to be in Manhattan.

My Meeting's annual budget is likely smaller than what a typical megachurch will collect on any sunday. We are at little threat from potential taxation.

Some churches are big businesses and some fail financially just like big businesses. Friends do not and would not approve of such practice.

The point remains and it is simple, a progressive government would be ill served to depend on the success of churches for its revenue.

Separation of Church and State was not done merely to protect the Church and its revenue, it was also done to keep government out of the religion business. It was mostly incorporated into the Constitution during the convention, to prevent the various State Churches in the Colonies from working to convert each other (Anglicans in Virginia, Puritans in Mass. were "established" by law at the time).

[Jokinomx]

21. Thanks Quaker Bill..... I appreciate your point of view...

You know I understand where you are coming from.. What I am mostly referring to is the large organizations raking in millions upon millions and many of their leaders living very very comfortable lives off the backs of those that can't really afford to give. But they do give because of a fear of falling out of grace or because they have been told "God" will bless them somehow if they donate to the cause.


Regardless of the belief system.... people are told misguided information or out right lies in order for the organization to survive. Most are unbending in their belief system, even when presented with proof to the contrary.

Religion has exploited and hurt/killed more people on this planet than all others combined. That said... not all religions are bad.. and not all take advantage of their members.

I respect those that are actually making our world a better place... I loath those that are in it to exploit and force their ideologies on others. Such as the so called Reverend Phelps and his minions. Of course they are extremists and easy to expose... it's the ones that are more clever that are hard to identify.


Peace...

[sendero]

20. Churches in this country..

... are indistinguishable from businesses and should be taxed accordingly.