If A Corporation Can Be A Person, Then Why Not A Union?

[napkinz]

Could this be the answer to what's happening in Wisconsin and other "tea party" states?

edit: Would "personhood" stop the union-busting measures/attacks?

[ClassWarrior]

1. Interesting thought...

NGU.

[napkinz]

4. NGU?

What does the mean?

[unblock]

10. google is your friend: non-gonococcal urethritis

but then again, friends sometimes play practical jokes....

[napkinz]

14. Google is my friend?

Is this a friend with benefits? And how do I tell Bing?

;)

[Recursion]

21. Easy: "Sorry, Bing, I've got NGU. You should probably get yourself checked." (nt)

[louis-t]

19. ouch

[Control-Z]

11. Never give up.

I just asked that same question last week.:)

[napkinz]

30. Never surrender

[louis-t]

17. Not ...Gonna... Urinate....?

I've been wondering that, too. Every time I see initials that are a mystery, it takes me back to my childhood. I got my first transistor radio at age 7. Now I could listen to my beloved Tigers on my own radio. Ernie Harwell and George Kell did a simulcast that year, 1963. On the box the radio came in (I still have the radio and the box) were the initials 'O.M.G.S'. The radio was made in Japan, there were no other indications what the letters stood for. We spent days trying to figure it out. My Mom's younger sister came over one day. Always the clown, she suggested they stood for "Oh..My..God....SSSSSSSSS." Still makes me laugh.

[thelordofhell]

28. Take out the "gonna" and "you"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[inademv]

2. Like so many on our side have said already

AND SHEP SMITH OF ALL PEOPLE
It's political, bottom line.

I can't remember who it was but they laid out a counter example to this. It was like, imagine if the left was so vehemently trying to eliminate corporations abilities to contribute money and had to have a vote every year to continue their existence. Could you imagine the shitstorm from the right? Would it resemble what we've been doing in response to Walker's farce of a budget proposal? Would it be more violent?

[bemildred]

3. In the context of the USSC decision (Citizen's United), I believe they are. nt

[SlimJimmy]

22. They are (according to the USSC decision). I'm not sure why the OP is

asking the question.

[FBaggins]

5. Who said that they weren't?

Most unions are already corporations anyway. So it's a distinction without much difference.

Not sure how it helps in WI however.

[napkinz]

7. Well there is a distinction in the way the two are treated

One is treated with praise, the other disdain.

The GOP wants tax breaks for the corporations.

They want to BREAK unions.

[FBaggins]

20. Depends on who is doing the "treating".

GOPers treat one with disdain, DUers treat the other that way.

The GOP wants tax breaks for the corporations.

They want to BREAK unions.


Yep.

[former9thward]

6. For legal purposes and for campaign finance purposes they are a person.

The law treats unions exactly the same way it treats corporations for these purposes.

[damntexdem]

8. Yes, the Citizens United case freed both corporations and unions to fund politics as they want.

So now the right has to stop the unions' ability to do so.

[Recursion]

9. All unions are corporations

I'm not sure what you're saying the distinction is.

[napkinz]

12. OK, I wasn't aware.

nt

[Recursion]

15. Well, DU is sometimes sloppy about the words "corporate" and "corporation"

Which is probably unfortunate.

[speltwon]

13. They already are under the law

See: Citizens United decision, among others. It applies equally to standard corporation (iow businesses) and unions.

[mmonk]

16. They are. Just smaller ones with less free speech.

[SlimJimmy]

23. Less free speech? How so? They are treated exactly the same in the

USSC decision.

[mmonk]

25. You really think they have as much money as the multi-national corporations?

Remember, money is speech now.

[SlimJimmy]

29. I looked that up not too long ago and it was pretty close (nt)

[slackmaster]

18. Unions are indistinguishable from corporations in many ways

They are in effect persons already.

[du_da]

24. The answer to your question

is because unions are not property, corporations are. Corporate personage is not actually about the corporation being considered a person but instead that the corporation as property maintains all the rights and protections held by any of its owners. It is treated as a separate entity from a legal perspective because otherwise the government would have no means by which to interface with it directly. Which means among other things the government couldn't tax them and would have to deal with the individual owners in regard to taxes and regulating the business' efforts. By allowing it to be an entity unto itself this gives a mechanism by which the public may interface with the company as a whole instead of its individual owners.

Unions do have a similar situation in that they have a formal establishment and requirement's to maintain recognition of their status. This gives them a similar public front from which the organization can be interfaced. The difference being that the members of a union do not actually own the organization they instead join it, thus the term members. Because they don't own the organization, then the organization does not retain rights from its owners since there technically are none.

The key to keeping it all straight in your mind is that companies are first and foremost property.

[Yo_Mama]

26. If it is legally organized

It is. Under the law. It would have the same rights under the law, generally.

Some election laws treat different types of organized entities differently.

There is a reason the ACLU filed a brief arguing for the SC to rule pretty much as it did in Citizens United. ACLU faced significant limitations under that law. You tell me how that furthers democracy.

[Brickbat]

27. They're treated the same way under Citizens United, if that's what you're getting at. However, they

have much less money to use in such things, and members are allowed to opt out if they wish, unlike shareholders or employees or corporations.