Man puts woman in coma with punch over a parking spot

[RamboLiberal]

Now he's sorry: The Queens electrician accused of beating a petite Bronx woman into a coma over an East Village parking space apologized Monday after he was indicted for assault.

"I'm very, very sorry for the situation she's going through," Oscar Fuller, 35, said a grand jury indicted him for the Feb. 29 beatdown of Lana Rosas.

-----

Prosecutors charge that Fuller hit Rosas, 25, so hard she "flew off her feet" and hit her head on the ground.

She continues to fight for her life at Bellevue Hospital, where doctors are trying to relieve brain swelling.

The 5-foot-7 Fuller claims he hit the 4-foot-11 Rosas in self defense.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/03/07/2011-03-07_oscar_fuller_charged_with_assault_for_allegedly_punching_woman_into_coma_over_pa.html

[Warpy]

1. He's only sorty he got caught and the world knows he's a thug and a bully

I hope there's a way to get him off the street for a long time whether or not Ms. Rosas survives.

I don't want him out there.

[JI7]

2. asshole

he should go away for life

[JI7]

3. at the link it says she hit him first, i think there might be video of it

she fell into a coma from falling and hitting her head on the ground not from his punch as i originally thought.

i would need to see/know more .

[seabeyond]

5. none of it is good..... bummer for all of them. nt

[TBF]

11. Would she have hit the ground if he had not punched her? Come on. nt

[seabeyond]

12. would he have hit her, if she hadnt hit him? the thing about it is....

it was wrong all the way around. size difference and strength difference.... absolutely. wrong he hit her, damn straight. wrong she hit him, yup.

[Aerows]

53. None of this would have happened

if he would have remained in his vehicle, or turned and walked away if she *did* hit him and called the police.

He provoked the physical confrontation by exiting his vehicle with the motor still running, and she was a pedestrian. This isn't his first arrest for assault and drug possession.

[seabeyond]

68. wouldnt have happened if she had walked away. previous history is a nonissue

and she provoked the physical confrontation by hitting him

[Aerows]

77. Previous history....

....will be an issue at sentencing, and trust me, he will be sentenced. At the very least they could charge them both with assault, but this wasn't self-defense. Since he cause grievous bodily harm, he WILL go to jail, regardless.

A lot of people don't seem to understand the concept of self-defense, and the fact that different states have different laws. It behooves you to know the laws of your state. This isn't like "self-defense" in defense of your home - that would be an entirely different thing. Had she gotten near the window of his car and hit him, that's also an entirely different thing. This was on the street, and there are different laws.

[seabeyond]

123. i expect him to be punished. you won't see anywhere where i suggested otherwise. nt

[cleanhippie]

73. If it happened the way it states, then she provoked this, not him.

I am in no way condoning or excusing the mans behavior (it was as wrong as wrong can be) but no matter WHAT led up to it, whomever strikes first is responsible. Period.

[Aerows]

79. It matters under the law n/t

[cleanhippie]

94. Correct, and they will probably BOTH be found guilty of assault and battery.

As they BOTH should be.

[Aerows]

96. Which is fine, if she actually hit him

His sentence will be a LOT harsher, though. As frankly, it should be.

[avaistheone1]

185. The fellow is a prize.

He walked away and left her to die.

[cleanhippie]

186. Not the point.

[LanternWaste]

217. Not "the" point, however it is indeed "a" point among many.

Not "the" point, however it is indeed "a" point among many valid points...

[cleanhippie]

226. Agreed, but it is the main point.

s/he who hits first shoulders the blame, but everyone is responsible for their actions.

[LanternWaste]

229. There appears to be quite a few "main points".

There appears to be quite a few "main points". I don't pretend to have absolute knowledge which are more valid and critical than the others...

A stool has three legs. I also don't pretend to know which leg is the most important... however I do know that they all appear to be rather critical in the stool's function.

[cleanhippie]

242. Perhaps, but I'm not sure its an apt analogy.

While we are in agreement, in THIS particular case, there was no point (other than both of them being a-holes about a parking spot) until she struck him.

[LanternWaste]

261. So I believe the analogy is indeed apt.

It would appear that stories and witnesses are now saying he initiated the violence, and the only allegation contrary to that comes from the man currently in jail.

Therefore I continue to maintain the analogy is indeed apt.

[Badfish]

19. you should have saw that one comin.

Come on.

[TBF]

20. Saw what coming? Sorry, I have no idea what "ignored" said.

nt

[flvegan]

13. Doesn't matter.

A real man doesn't hit a woman unless he absolutely has to defend himself in that way. I doubt that in such an open space, that was the case.

[seabeyond]

14. a real woman wouldnt hit because she feels she has allowances....

again, i am back to, none of it is good.

[flvegan]

15. I think

we can agree, that nobody should hit anyone in any case.

[seabeyond]

16. i have never found the need... nt

[MedicalAdmin]

63. I have found the need.

But I used to work on a riot squad in a max security prison. Sometimes a guy just didn't want to play nice and so we had to nicely ask them to pretty please put the shiv down. And when that didn't work...

[cleanhippie]

74. ahh, a "real" man. Since she hit him first, doen make her less of a "real" woman?

[Aerows]

126. Quick point...

...If he would have been a man of slight stature, and she would have been a tall, strong woman and she was the one that did this? She'd be headed the same place he is headed to - prison. The issue comes in when you cause considerable harm. Think about it - it has nothing to do with sex, the same things apply when it happens to an elderly person or a child, because they can get injured more easily.

You don't have the right to respond with any amount of force you like to someone slapping you, particularly if you are in no danger.

[cleanhippie]

166. Yeah, dude, I get it it. You are repeating yourself ad nauseum. Your point is made, FFS.

But I would like to hear from the poster I posed this question to.

[flvegan]

171. No, just makes her a violent woman.

Please don't try to make my response something that it isn't.

[cleanhippie]

187. Your response is what it is, with no help from me.

[Control-Z]

17. Yeah. She only flew off her feet

from the punch, then landed so hard she was knocked into a coma.

[Aerows]

50. This isn't his first arrest for assault...

...and he got out of the car and escalated it. He's toast, regardless. She was a pedestrian and he got out of his vehicle. You can't run over people, either, just because they are in your way.

The lesson here: feel free to curse her out but then find another place to park instead of leaping out of the car and starting a physical confrontation.

[seabeyond]

52. nt

[Liquorice]

4. I don't believe a word he says about the incident. He's a violent dirtbag. nt

[Journeyman]

6. Natch. That's what prison's all about. . .

Dirtbag. Hope he has plenty of time to develop true contrition for his act.

[Kennah]

7. Is this really from 2008?

The article says the date of attack was February 29th

[RamboLiberal]

193. No it happened a few days ago

[ejpoeta]

8. 'i'm sorry for the situation she is going through'? wtf is that!

it should be i am sorry for the situation i put you in. uggh.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. We need to see what the purported video of the incident says

before we start condemning him.

[TBF]

22. May be some mitigation, but it's hard to believe that with 8" and 50 lbs. more -

and her in a coma (does he have any injuries?) it's gonna be a tough sale to let him off .

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. Single blow and the fall causing the injuries are also mitigators

I am a very big boy. I have also been involved in fisticuffs over the years. I have never had a problem when my use of violence has been defensive, though the aggressors were seriously injured. Then again, I have never ever struck a woman.

Call me old school...

[musette_sf]

36. + 1

and there's no evidence of his allegation that "she hit first".

Knocked her out, knocked her flat, saw her boyfriend coming, jumped in the car and zoomed away. Yeah, that sounds like "self-defense" to me, not.

[pitohui]

235. yeah, the "she hit me first" story sounds like a bold lie

i am myself a tiny woman, trust me, we don't walk around hitting huge bad-tempered men with a history of criminal offenses, in fact, we don't walk around hitting ANYONE -- tiny, fragile women do not pick physical fights PERIOD

it's easy to make up lies when the other person is dead or in a coma

if he'd raped her, the story would be "she shouldnt' a worn that dress"

this guy is a jerk and a bully, period

[RamboLiberal]

194. He claimed he had blood on his head

But if you look at video I see no apparent injuries.

[Aerows]

54. No we don't

He escalated the conflict by getting out of his vehicle, leaving the motor running to initiate the physical confrontation, and he's been arrested for assault and drug possession before. You can't just run over a pedestrian when they are in your way, either.

He's toast, regardless, because he then proceeded to inflict grievous bodily harm. It's irrelevant if the video shows that she hit him, because his retaliation was egregious and caused serious bodily harm. Charge both of them with assault, but when you cause grievous bodily harm, you will be sentenced WAY more harshly. That's the law.

Not to mention he then proceeded to flee the scene, which isn't going to do him any favors, because he fled because the boyfriend showed up.

[bighart]

125. I actually have some personal experience with this.

Many years ago had a neighbor that was a bully. He came over raising hell because one of his kids and one of mine got into a shouting match. He was drunk and made a threat as he was walking away that if he saw my kid outside "he would teach him a lesson". I stepped out onto the porch and asked him what he said and he spun around and punched me in the face. I told my wife to call the cops, when I explained what had happened they arrested him but told me the prosecutor probably wouldn't do much with it because I had "escalated the situation by coming out of my house and confronting him". They were basically correct and I had to really push the prosecutor to take it to court.

[GSLevel9]

10. guy has "midget complex"... real tough guy. nt

[Control-Z]

18. ...

"I'm very, very sorry for the situation she's going through," Oscar Fuller, 35, said a grand jury indicted him for the Feb. 29 beatdown of Lana Rosas.

"It crushed my whole family," Fuller, a father of two, said of the explosive case.

"It crushed her family as well," he added... An afterthought.

[TBF]

21. It crushed HIS family? He might think about that before crushing other folks' brains. nt

[Taverner]

23. How long before Fox paints this as a "union thug" at work?

[Meldread]

24. Reminds me of my cousin and her road rage...

I refused to ride along with her ever again after she followed a guy into a parking lot. He had cut her off or something (I wasn't paying attention at the time), she became enraged, followed him into the parking lot then got out of the car to confront him. Me? I'm sitting there thinking, "OMFG... What if he has a gun!? Are you crazy?!" That was the worst I had ever seen, but it was virtually impossible to ride with her anywhere without hearing her spew profanity laced tirades at other drivers and crap like that...

Not sure if this is a case of road rage here, but reading about this certainly brought back that memory! Sucks for this guys kids and wife.

[Aerows]

112. I also have a friend that has road rage

and I have repeatedly warned her that she is playing with fire. Some people just plain DO NOT CARE.

Stay in your damn car LOL.

[JVS]

25. Don't assault people, they might hit back.

[Dash87]

29. But she didn't deserve to get hit.

And what kind of a man punches a woman?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Hitting back is allowed in self defense

However, I have never and will never hit a woman

[Dash87]

32. I agree, but he could have just found another spot.

Both the victim and the accused in this case appear to have needed serious anger management. Now, it's too late. :(

[JI7]

44. it's hard to find parking spaces , that's why she was saving it for her boyfriend

but you don't own the fucking spot. how fucking annoying it is when you are driving around looking for a spot and there is one open but some idiot is standing there thinking they own it and saving it for someone who didn't get there yet.

[seabeyond]

49. of course it is hard, that is why they were both pissed, lol. but one could have done it equally to

the other, is all i am saying. he could have left, she could have walked away. neither chose that. she could have not hit, he could have walked away. either did that

[RamboLiberal]

71. The boyfriend was circling the block

So it's not like he was in the next borough and she was saving it for and extended period of time.

[JI7]

164. doesn't matter , parking spaces are not their own private property

i have circled around many times trying to find parking. see from a distance someone leaving but someone else gets the spot before i get there. its just how things are when it's hard to find parking.

[RamboLiberal]

195. You'd just love our area then where they put out chairs and other objects

to save dug out parking spots when there are big snows. And yeah there have been ugly confrontations not to mention stolen chairs.

[LanternWaste]

198. Or those selfish bastards saving...

Or those selfish bastards saving seats for their wives in movie theaters... "thinking that they own it and saving it for someone who didn't get there yet."

[JI7]

249. if she was saving it for him by waiting in her car in the parking spot

i would have no problem.

and at least the theater goers pay for their seats with the ticket purchase unlike the fools who think they own parking spots .

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. I do not have a problem with standing ones ground...the requirement to retreat is BS

By the same token, I do not hit women under any circumstances.

[RamboLiberal]

59. There are times to retreat

Gee, what if he used a gun? To strike someone back you have to think your life or well-being is in danger legally. His was not!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

106. Yes there are, but it is not an absolute requirement, nor should it be

[Aerows]

133. So apparently

in your opinion, might makes right. The mightier person should be allowed to inflict any amount of damage upon another person, particularly nearly killing them, no matter what?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

174. It is situational and general rules are hard to come by

Modifiers include age, gender, and location. Consider also that the "mightier" person may well be the victim and that even in NY you can shoot a burglar regardless if they are armed or not. About the only thing that is clear is that if violence is called for, sufficient force needs to be used to insure the perp can no longer be a threat.


Scenarios:

A gay man is being sexually harassed by another male in a bar with a small crowd of supporters cheering him on. As the somewhat smaller assailant presses closer, the victim crotch kicks him and then back fists the assailant in the temple. Perp falls to the floor disoriented and vomiting. Crowd backs away and leaves the victim alone as he leaves.

A girl walking home from school is confronted by several other girls intent on administering a beat down. However, the victim manages to defend herself against the group attack. All of the perps are injured and are taken to the ER with broken bones and/or contusions.


In both scenarios the victim was "mightier" and might have been able to not harm the perp(s) as much, but I have no problem with what either victim did, considering the circumstances. Do you?

This case seems to have more sensationalism than facts. Different press reports seem to be telling different stories about what happened. Lets wait for the video and not use words written by a flack trying to papers.

[Aerows]

189. New update

Here's the latest: "After she explained she was saving the spot, Fuller jumped out, started screaming at her, and then punched her in the face "with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.
According to witnesses he hit her several more times before speeding off. Stunned onlookers took down his license plate number. He was tracked down at his home in Jamaica. "

So, he screamed at her, punched her in the face, and then hit her again.

So would you like to once again justify this guy's actions, and explain why you are so desperate to defend a violent act just because he told a good story "she hit me first"?

See, that's what happens all too frequently in these types of cases.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

203. More and more comes out...

and hopefully it is accurate. Still waiting on the purported tape to make sure the real story gets out, whatever it may be.

I am not so much defending the instant case but the general concept of self defense without retreat. Many statements were made here at a general level that I do not agree with and in fact are not necessarily the law. The comments about disproportionate force were equally uninformed

[LanternWaste]

214. And I do not have a problem with leaving...

And I do not have a problem with leaving an awkward social situation that is doing little more than inviting negative consequences... especially when any net gain to "stand the ground" is so unbelievably small as to be petulant.

[RamboLiberal]

57. I bet a jury or a judge won't agree on this one

Striking back at a smaller, weaker person of opposite sex(heck even same sex) when escape is available. He was on the wrong side legally in disparity of force on this one.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

108. Disparity of force often referrers to ending a fist fight with a gun

or repeated blows on an attacker already down. Though there is precedent, it is a hard thing to prove with a single blow.

[RamboLiberal]

215. True but it can extend to just one punch by an obviously stronger

person even if the weaker person struck the first blow.

[RamboLiberal]

70. Only if you have no other options and you do not escalate the conflict

For instance 2 guys of close physical ability, yeah you can hit back but you certainly cannot under law turn that in to a beating of the other guy wherein he sustains serious injury after the fight could've ended.

If someone weaker strikes you and you are under no threat of serious injury the law rightfully will expect you to try to retreat and IMHO this was the case. A small woman, a child, an elderly person even if they are in the wrong and striking a more physically capable man, he cannot strike back so hard he inflicts serious injury.

Yeah the pavement caused the injury but IMHO he punched her so damn hard she was probably cold-cocked and unable to brace herself falling.

She's 4'11" 100 lbs, he's 5'7" 150, he could've blocked her blows with his arms and screamed at her to back the hell off as he retreated.

I hope they release any video cause this is one I want to see.

[TicketyBoo]

You can't do that here, not legally.

2 guys of close physical ability, yeah you can hit back

The law here calls that "assault by mutual consent," and the police will cite both participants into court.

[RamboLiberal]

91. Oh definitely both will probably end up in court

Just arguing when you can physically fight someone back. And how far you can go. Defender if he prevails cannot continue to pound the other guy's head in to pavement if attacker is subdued. Or continue to stab or shoot him once attacker is down. And IMHO you have to think you are in danger of serious bodily injury before you can strike back against an attacker, especially if that attacker is weaker or older and would not be expected to cause you serious injury.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

110. State laws vary on duty to retreat. Size alone does not determine threat

My late wife was of similar size and could easily disable any size attacker.

I too want to see the video if one exists. All of this is conjecture until then.

[Aerows]

131. The fact that he nearly killed her...

... and then ran when an actual threat, the boyfriend, arrived, pretty much tells you he was just throwing his weight around.

If this had been a woman attacking a frail elderly man, she'd be headed to prison, too. If it had been a child, same story.

You can't just respond with any amount of violence that you feel like responding with, and what happened is that there was considerable harm done. That's what you really need to focus on, the amount of damage done, because that is what determines the severity of the incident. It isn't as though he just slapped her back or something.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

176. So if an old man had hit her with the same results you would be ok with that?

Interesting set of standards...

One of the sticky points in self defense arguments is the single blow. The person defending themselves has the right to use enough force to stop the attack. If they strike back just once, can that be considered excessive force is a question that gets argued more than many realize and it gets stickier if the damage is done not by the blow itself.
- You can shoot an unarmed burglar in your home and will not have a problem in most places.
- If the defender causes the attacker to fall and are then seriously injured, is the defender still responsible for their injuries (case law is split on that one).
- Does eggshell skull theory apply?

I am looking at this at a macro level. The details still seem to be bouncing around depending on the source. The video (if it really exists) will be telling.

[seabeyond]

38. i can go with the "what kind...man punches a woman?" but did he deserve to be hit

anymore than she did?

[Dash87]

39. Nope but this guy could have ended it by finding another parking spot.

[seabeyond]

41. i dont know what the rules are to saves on a parking space, but you hit, expect to be hit back

simple enough rule. is the guy a fuckin asshole for hittin, ya. she is pretty stupid for hittin, too. runined a whole lot of lives

btw... the bf could have found another place to park, too, you know.

[Aerows]

58. He caused grievous bodily harm

Charge them both, but his sentence will be a LOT more harsh, regardless, because he completely over-reacted. Mind you, if he would have stayed in the car, none of this would have happened. You can't just run over pedestrians in your way, either. This isn't his first arrest for assault, either, among other charges, so he's hardly a model citizen.

Stay in the car LOL. That is the best rule I can offer anyone to keep things like this from getting WAY out of hand.

[cleanhippie]

83. Exactly right.

For all the arguments being made for this woman, many seem to be willfully ignoring this point.

[Aerows]

132. If this had been

an elderly man that was struck by a woman and had this amount of damage caused to him - put into a coma and nearly killed, sex would be totally irrelevant in that case, too. She'd be headed to prison.

It's not about sex - it's about an inordinate reaction of force. When we as a society start accepting inordinate displays of violence, we open ourselves up to might makes right. That is what the law is designed to (supposedly) protect us from.

[seabeyond]

136. i read about some man harrassing a woman, peeing in front of her or something.

the bf told him to knock it off. (i dont remember exactly the story) the guy hit him and the bf threw one punch. the pervert went down, hit head and died. the bf was up for murder.

i was so on the bf side. i felt so sorry for him. and of course he was punished.

another lesson i was teaching my 13 yr old today. one punch. should have not been a deal. he was protecting a gf. his job. and now, his life is ruined. the other man is dead by a fluke.

no one accepts what this man is doing. i also dont accept what the woman did. our women are becoming more violent too. that has to be voiced, out loud and taught too.

NO hitting, by either gender.

[JI7]

43. she hit him for for trying to park in a space he had a right to

while he probably shoudln't have hit back as hard it's not as i first believed since the OP left out a lot of info.

i thought they were just fighting over the same spot and he just hit her out of nowhere.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. No ethical requirement to retreat

[RamboLiberal]

60. Yes there was an ethical requirement to retreat

in this case.

[Aerows]

65. +1

[Aerows]

64. Won't fly

He committed grievous bodily harm, not to mention escalated the confrontation physically by exiting his still running vehicle to go after a pedestrian. You can't run over people, either, just because they are in your way.

I'd also point out he has committed assault before and had drug possession charges. He's hardly a pillar of good judgment, and obviously learned nothing from his previous breaking of the law.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

113. You are asserting as facts things that I have not seen

Not saying you are wrong, just have not seen them before. There is purportedly some video which should make things much clearer. Until then it is all conjecture.

[Aerows]

115. This happened in NY

He's done.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

118. You are mostly certainly correct about him being toast

[Aerows]

119. Here...

"To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage."

He caused grievous bodily harm, in a situation where it was unlikely that he would incur serious injuries or property damage. He also got out of the car and initiated the physical aspect of the confrontation.

Unless she started doing kung-fu moves in the street, he has absolutely no justification for the amount of force he used.

[wickerwoman]

92. But there is a legal requirement.

You are only allowed to inflict force proportional to the danger you face and only if you have no other options. If someone comes at you with a knife threatening to kill you and you have no way to retreat, you can use proportional force to kill them (unless you have martial arts or military training in which case you're expected to try to subdue them if that's reasonably within your skill set).

She slapped him. He had a chance to get away (much bigger than her and had a car), which he was legally required to try to take before he responded with any kind of force. He hit her hard enough to knock her out and drop her into the pavement. Now she's in a coma. That's not proportional in any sense of the word.

Sorry, but he has absolutely no case in court.

[RamboLiberal]

105. +1

[ProgressiveProfessor]

114. That requirement varies by state.

Purportedly there is a video which should settle things, until then much of this is conjecture.

[Aerows]

117. It happened in NY

"To be acquitted of any kind of physical harm-related crime (such as assault and battery and homicide) using the self-defense justification, one must prove legal provocation, meaning that one must prove that they were in a position where not using self-defense would most likely lead to death, serious injuries and property damage."

She wasn't going to cause him serious injury, she wasn't going to damage his property, and the worst thing she might have done was hurt his ego.

Is that worthy of putting someone in a coma these days? I don't think that it is, personally.

[wickerwoman]

120. Yep,

in New York, he has a duty to retreat unless she is invading his home.

[pitohui]

237. she didn't hit anybody

can we stop repeating the abuser's lies now? there were several witnesses, this guy got out of his fucking CAR and attacked this lady

[cleanhippie]

80. No one "deserves" to get hit. He didn't "deserve" it either.

And by the same token, what kind of a woman punches a man?

[Liquorice]

180. Do you normally believe the word of a violent criminal with an assault record who

has assaulted a woman and put her in the hospital in a coma?

"Rosas was trying to hold a parking spot for her boyfriend between two other parked cars on East 14th Street on Feb. 25 when Fuller pulled up in a minivan.

After she explained she was saving the spot, Fuller jumped out, started screaming at her, and then punched her in the face "with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.

According to witnesses he hit her several more times before speeding off. Stunned onlookers took down his license plate number. He was tracked down at his home in Jamaica."

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Man-Accused-of-Beating-Woman-Into-Coma-It-Was-a-Reaction-117518798.html

[LanternWaste]

236. It would appear she didn't hit back...

It would appear she didn't hit back... :shrug:

Unless of course you were referring to his slowly-crumbling story that she threw the first punch...

[JVS]

26. Hold up, "indicted him for the Feb. 29 beatdown" ?

So this is a recent news article about something that happened over 3 years ago?

[RamboLiberal]

201. The Feb 29 is a mistake - this happened this week

Just google news.

[lapislzi]

27. Reminds me of something I learned

In a remedial driving class (backstory not germane). Driving is not an emotional experience. I really learned to take a deep breath upon hearing those words. You're operating a machine. Your job is to arrive safely at your destination. No more, no less.

[Dash87]

28. This guy is a monster, but seriously,

I wouldn't run up to a random person and start punching them over a parking space. That is so stupid. She didn't deserve to get hit, and this guy is a nut, but what was she thinking?

With that being said, this guy is a monster for not walking away and calling the police. That's what he should have done. The self-defense argument is a load of crap.

[joshcryer]

33. Monster. Nice.

[Dash87]

35. Well, what would you call a man who punches a woman straight in the face,

and puts her in a coma?

[joshcryer]

37. I'm not on the jury and I haven't seen the evidence of the case.

But I can certainly see a situation where I would not call the guy a monster.

[okieinpain]

48. she did deserve to get hit, maybe not shot. but hit yep. n/t.

[RamboLiberal]

56. No she did not

You can't just smack back someone smaller & weaker cause they smacked you with a hand first.

You have to deescalate the situation which he could've done by backing up & getting in his car.

[okieinpain]

200. uh keep you hands to yourself and I'll do the same. n/t.

[Bluebear]

75. What kind of violent rules do you live by?

[okieinpain]

202. hey i do not go around hitting people because I didn't get my way.

she started it and he finished it. I have no sympathy for people who do stupid stuff.

[RamboLiberal]

100. Let's see the video tape

That's his defense.

And no she did not deserve to get hit that hard even if she was stupid enough to hit him first.

[okieinpain]

204. as long as he didn't stump or kick her in the head all is fair in

street battles. I have two daughters and a wife and you better believe they know better then to go around putting hands on people who are strangers. especially over something as simple as a parking spot.

[LanternWaste]

212. I imagine many people feel a righteous justification

I imagine many people feel a righteous justification in predicating their own actions on those of others, regardless that a few words spoken would have achieved an obviously much more positive consequence.

I suppose he may even feel a sense of vindication and self-validation while he sits in county lock-up. Epic win... :eyes:

[okieinpain]

225. im pretty sure he hates sitting in the county jail. still doesn't change

the fact that she put hands on him first. I have no sympathy for her.

[LanternWaste]

230. It would appear that the story is changing and she never touched him.

It would appear that the story is changing (see downthread) and she never touched him.

"I have no sympathy for her..."
I don't doubt that at all. :shrug:

[Dash87]

227. A real man would never hit a woman, no matter what the circumstances are.

Of course, minus obvious circumstances that could be pointed out, but seriously.

I don't care how mean she was. She didn't deserve to be put in a coma or punched by a man in the first place.

[seabeyond]

231. i just really have such a tough time..... i dont care how mean she is.....

i am all for him getting time. and he will.

but i really have a tough time hearing this repeatedly. i dont care what a woman does

the man though, that matters.

[cleanhippie]

86. If you consider him to be a "monster" what is she then?

What derogatory term would you call her then? Innocent does not fit, so what is it?

[Dash87]

228. I would call her a mean person, but this guy is a nut job.

[derby378]

34. I'm 6-foot-2...

Let him try that swing on me sometime. Even if I don't hit back, it'll be amusing to see him try to reach my chin.

[BobTheSubgenius]

40. One driving incident, however trivial, put it all in perspective for me.

I used to get quite angry at times - not often, but sometimes - at some of the idiotic antics of other drivers. I was riding in my friend's car along a very main street, when another car veered into "our" lane without signalling and cut him off BADLY. He didn't even miss a beat in our conversation; just backed off on the gas and let the idiot get ahead.

I just had to mention his complete equanimity regarding this, and his answer was "I decided that I'm not going to let the stupidity of some random asshole ruin my day." Funny how the wisdom and practicality of that comment alone changed my attitude. I can't say I'm as forgiving as he is, but, even if my calm is disrupted, I can let it go very quickly now, and it happens way less often. Driving is SO much better....and really, how much sooner do you get to your destination by driving aggressively and\or angrily?

In a completely unrelated but comical story, a different friend and I were driving along the same road but in the opposite direction, as it happens, and some guy was barging in and out every lane available, as soon as there was even a car length available ahead of him. We watched him weave his way in and out of traffic until we lost sight of him.

About 5 minutes later, we pull up beside the same guy at a red light. My friend gets his attention and says "I can see why you're driving like that. You're making REALLY good time."

Perspective. I try to maintain it, and have never had occasion to smack another driver in over 30 years of driving.

[Aerows]

62. Absolutely

Just stay in the damn car and let them go.

[Blue_Tires]

223. +1

[MadMaddie]

42. No sympathy for him

Fucking ridiculous..over a parking place...

Now a woman is struggling to live over a parking place...

[okieinpain]

47. just because you are a female does not mean you get a free

pass. i don't think he should be in trouble.

[RamboLiberal]

55. It's a disparity of force thing

All he had to do was backup and get back in his car. There was no way in hell she could seriously harm him unarmed with her hands.

Hell he could've probably just grabbed her arms & said chill out lady.

You can't just punch out someone smaller & weaker than you cause they smacked you with a hand.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

67. It kind of falls into line with the whole "dont bring a knife to a gun fight"...

petite women should not start physical confrontations with men. Well, no one should ever physically affront another person ever ... but especially not the above example. Without some serious martial arts training it usually wont end well.

My guess is she figured that she was somehow entitled not to be struck by a man in self defense due to her gender. She figured wrong.

[RamboLiberal]

72. And a man must not strike back at the woman

Cause the law and a judge or jury will probably not be on his side.

Sorry but sometimes the best thing is to walk away. I trained in martial arts for many years but I never used it even when an ahole probably deserved to be cold-cocked or kicked in the balls. Why, cause it would probably end badly one way or another for me and it was truly not a self-defense situation.

And now that I carry a gun I damn well better be even more zen when it comes to confrontations and rage.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

76. I agree with your assesment... he certainly should have walked away.

But, in the most literal and technical interpretation of events - his actoins may be considered self-defense under the scrutiny of the law. It's a toss up and he'll probably have to defend himself. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome is decided either way.

My best guess is that he'll be aquitted criminally (maybe only get probation) and she will sue the piss out of him civilly.

[Liquorice]

78. He's the one who jumped out of his car and went up to her. If she did

hit him, it was probably in self-defense and fear.

[Aerows]

82. EXACTLY

People don't seem to understand the difference between self-defense and being an asshole. She was obviously in a lot more danger than he was, and he initiated the physical confrontation. He also caused considerable harm.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

88. She was impeding traffic in a designated area for vehicles...

I mean, you can back and forth... but in the end they both acted like idiots and both contributed to escalating the situation.

He'll probably get pinched on this one due to the disparity of force.

[Aerows]

93. You can't run over a pedestrian

There was no defense of property here, either.

He's done.

[Liquorice]

95. He got out of his car and attacked her. There's no argument here. He attacked

this woman and put her in a coma. I can't believe anyone is arguing that it was self-defense based on this violent creep's statements. How depressing. It's not like she ran over to his car window and punched him in the face... I guess acting like "an idiot" is justifiable cause for a woman to be assaulted and put into a coma now. Jeez.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

107. Actually there is some disagreement

Claims have been made she struck him first and repeatedly. Purportedly there is a video tape, which should clarify things

[Liquorice]

111. No, he got out of his car and approached her. She was certainly trying to defend

herself from him IF she did hit him. That much is beyond obvious. He confronted her. After he punched her so hard she flew off her feet, he sped away and then went to a birthday party like nothing happened. He's a violent criminal, and now I see why so many violent criminals get away with their crimes for so long.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

116. I have not seen that claim elsewhere. If true, you are correct.

I am waiting for the purported video at this point.

[Liquorice]

124. What claim? I'm basing the whole thing on the news report of the attack. He got

out of his car--he had to have because she was standing in the parking spot and that is where he punched her so hard he put her in a coma. He approached her. He then sped off, according to the news report, and the people there took his license plate as he escaped. He then went to a birthday party immediately afterward, again according to the article on the crime, and acted like nothing happened. He has a history of assault as well, and this isn't his first criminal offense for it. He knows what to say to try to get out of it.

[seabeyond]

128. you are afraid so you hit? really? i have heard that afraid argument before. when i am afraid

of someone bigger, i dont escalate something. that makes no fuckin sense to me and never has. i have a huge brother. the mother of his daughter would tell me she was afraid. then... she wuold do every damn thing she could think of to make him adn the daughters life hell. when she said she was afraid, i would be stunned. ask her, why the hell she makes everything so damn hard if she is so damn afraid. i dont get that thinking at all.

[Aerows]

135. This isn't a situation between people who know each other though

this was a heated encounter in the middle of the street. That does change the situation.

[seabeyond]

140. even more so. why the hell would you escalate a situation with a stranger and man if afraid.

in survival mode, that makes no sense to me at all. poster said she did cause afraid. if i were afraid, i would leave and say, .... take the spot

which is logical

[Liquorice]

137. If a man came at me aggressively, perhaps calling names, and threatening

me, I don't know what I might do. I could definitely see a woman trying to defend herself against that sort of aggressive menacing. But that's assuming what the attacker said is true--that she hit him first. I doubt it even happened that way. I don't know why anyone would take his word for it. He put the woman in a coma, for God's sake. Of course he's going to say she hit him first.

[seabeyond]

141. i KNOW what i would do. take the spot.... and walk away. nt

[Liquorice]

142. People often react quite differently than they think they will in the moment. When fight or

flight kicks in, some will fight and some will flee. In any case, it's beyond disgusting to take the attacker's word for it that she hit him without any other evidence.

[seabeyond]

143. why cant you give the same to the guy then.... he was just reacting to being swung at?

anything you say to excuse thsi womans behavior can equally be said to excuse this mans behavior.

i tend to say..... she was wrong for hitting. he was MORE wrong for hitting. both their lives are fucked up.... both were wrong. all the way wrong.

and btw... i do know how i would react in this situation. i would have told bf not holding place. get ass there and hope he gets place. and definitely not going to confront someone i dont know about a damn space. and i dont hit.

[Liquorice]

144. Because he assaulted her and we know it because she is in the

hospital in a coma. We have no evidence that she assaulted him except that he says so. He also has a history of assault and has been convicted of it in the past. He confronted her. He got out of his car and went over to where she was. She didn't approach him. It's obvious that he violently assaulted this woman and it is established by witnesses that he then sped away to escape what he had done. Then he went to a birthday party and acted like nothing had happened. That's not the actions of an innocent person.

[seabeyond]

148. said video surveillance will show Rosas hit him several times before he punched back.

i guess we will have to wait and see if this is true. with either position.

his past assault has nothing to do with this discussion

i am not defending the man. i am not saying he does not deserve jail or is scum. i am not saying this woman is a victim either.

[Liquorice]

152. She's in the hospital in a coma. She's a victim of a viscious assault. And the

only person saying there is video of this assault showing she hit him is HIS lawyer. And he is most likely getting that information from his client.

[seabeyond]

145. i can tell so many stories where the woman is going after the man.... and the man does nothing

if i know women and girls that do it, i know you know women and girls that do it.

it is wrong.

and i am tired of us female making excuses for the females that think they get to behave in this manner and the male is suppose to take it.

my other brothers first real true love would kick him in the balls when they would have a fight. i told him.... hit her back. i think it is cheap and chicken shit and it pisses me off when girls and women do this.

of course, brother says.... cant

well that is chicken shit that a female uses that.

[Liquorice]

149. That is not the situation in this case, I don't believe. I don't really

think this is a tremendous problem in our society anyway. Yes it happense and it's wrong for anyone to hit anyone else. But a woman is raped every two minutes in this country. Almost any man can overpower almost any woman, and that's why it is so easy for men to rape women. That's simple biology. The most likely person to murder a woman is a man, but the most likely person to murder a man is also a man. We don't have a big problem with beaten, murdered and raped men at the hands of women. We do, however, have the opposite problem.

[Aerows]

153. See, that's what is getting lost here

in this debate. People are trying to turn this into black and white situations, and many times, the law is gray.

We also have to look at trends, and you are absolutely correct that the trend tends to be men being more violent, and men raping women. Does the opposite situation happen? Sure, but like elder abuse or child abuse, it isn't usually the child or the elder beating up a healthy male, or female for that matter.

[seabeyond]

154. this is what my argument is and a huge issue for me. this is the same mentality

that i see in the schools. because they are boys... and being hit pinched pushed kicked by a mere girl.... the boys can suck it up. or they deserve it for some reason. the girls learn at a young age, they get to do whatever with a pass.

YOU may not think it is an issue across the country, i feel it is an issue

does that excuse, validate, diminish or justify rape? have you EVER heard me give a male a break?

one has nothing to do with another.

at least the cops recognize today that when a woman hits... then her ass goes to jail. in the past, a woman hits and the man went to jail.

[Liquorice]

159. Boys and men are not ending up in hospitals and morgues at the hands

of violent women and girls. It's just not happening, and it's not a big problem in our society.

[seabeyond]

161. so.... because the females being physically abusive are not hurting the males

enough to go to hospital, then it is ok for females to be abusive?

my sons just are not going to buy that argument.

not that they are going to hit back liq. i taught them well. but it certainly is not logical or just or reasonable.

[Liquorice]

163. No, it's just not a big societal problem. But the raping, beating and murders

of girls and women in our society--in all societies--is a tremendous problem and deserves much more attention than it gets.

I really doubt any man would say women attacking them is a general concern for them. It isn't.

[seabeyond]

167. it was for this woman huh? too bad someone didnt teach this woman that she doesnt get right to hit

and the man will do nothing to her....

if she had been taught that hitting was equally bad on a females part, maybe should wouldnt be where she is now

i cannot do that liquorice. i cannot dismiss a bad behavior because another behavior is worse.

[Liquorice]

168. We don't know if she hit him. He's the only one saying that. We do know he hit her. nt

[Aerows]

151. Wait a second

Shouldn't we be encouraging each other to not hit each other in the first place? It's not noble to escalate a conflict, no matter who does it.

Would you encourage someone to hit their elderly relative? Be realistic here.

[seabeyond]

156. i think i am the one that has been saying NO hitting by either gender about every damn post

and what a condescendingly stupid question and then telling me to be realistic.

[RamboLiberal]

205. Better you tell your brother to drop his "true love"

and walk the hell away. Hitting her back only escalates domestic violence. Any man who stays with a woman who physically abuses him and vice-versa for women is a fool!

That is not love!

[seabeyond]

211. oh, decades ago. new experience in my life. i could not imagine a girl (we were that young)

would behave that way. i had always been in an environment, two older brothers NEVER allowed to hit me. i thought that just automatically meant since they couldnt hit me would be reallyr eally bad form to hit them. silly me. didnt know it was a one way street.

decades ahead now, i make it clear to the boys, ONE aggressive move from the female, dump her. says a lot, too much about her and she is not worth their time and effort. she is so disrespectful and one sided it will come out in other parts of relationship and have more respect for self than to EVER allow that.

but then i say it to my niece about a man that would intimidate or abuse them in any way

[Aerows]

146. Well, he didn't think much about it

Apparently he went to a party after this like it was nothing, and they only caught him because they got his license plate numbers.

I'm sorry, I just can't see putting another human being in a coma over a parking spot and being nonchalant about it.

[seabeyond]

150. so what.... that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

i have not even taken the position he should have hit back.

i am merely saying, a woman is going to hit.... expect to be hit back. that simple.

should they???? who the fuck knows. but because she is female, she does NOT have the right to hit

[RamboLiberal]

84. I'll bet he's convicted

Hell I'm female and about 5'4" but I'd probably be laughing at while I'm arm blocking some female 4'11" 100 pounder trying to smack me.

He could've just pushed her off with open hand shove. Maybe she'd have still fallen but she may have had a chance to catch herself.

IMHO from description of the punch, like a boxer she was cold-cocked and went straight back on her skull onto the pavement further damaging her head. Couldn't help that her brain was probably already moving in her skull from the punch.

[Aerows]

90. I'm 5'3" and don't weigh much more than she does

and I would have probably laughed about it too. Then again, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to get out of the car, and if I did, it would have probably just been a cussing match :D

[wickerwoman]

102. His actions can't be considered self-defense

because he had a clear way to exit the situation without resorting to violence.

Self-defense only applies in situations where there was absolutely no other possible way to resolve the situation. That's obviously not the case here because he could have gotten back in his car and driven away. He also probably could have easily run away and/or called the cops.

The law doesn't recognize "you hit me, so I can hit you back". It only recognizes your right to defend yourself from death or serious bodily harm in situations where you have no other options and then only with an amount of force proportional to the threat you face.

Basically for most men this means (right or wrong) never, ever hit a woman unless she has a weapon, is in a position to do serious damage to you and you have absolutely no way to get away because the law will *not* be on your side otherwise.

[Aerows]

129. It's the same situation with an elderly person or a child

You can't just respond with any amount of force that you feel like responding with and call it "self-defense" if you aren't in any danger. Had this been a woman hitting an elderly man and causing this damage, she'd be headed to jail.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

134. Technically, that depends on the state. See "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand Your Ground" laws...

In many states there is no duty to retreat before self-defense can be used (even when using lethal force in self defense). More commonly, this law applies to the home or vehicle but some states extend this protect outside of personal property. "Castle Doctrine" generally covers the home, car or private property and "Stand Your Ground" generally refers to any public location where legally present. In almost all cases the laws will not protect someone who is the agressor (ie: threw the first punch or escalated the situation). The purpose of the laws is to shift the burden of proof for indictment to the district attourney. Generally, these laws will typically also offer civil immunities the victim from suits filed on behalf of the assailant or their next of kin.

To save you some time, New York has basic Castle Doctrine protectoins (they don't have to retreat on/in their property)... but New York does NOT extend these protections out into the general public. So if he claims self-defense, he will have to demonstrate reason as to why he did not retreat. Regardless of the criminal outcome he will be sued into oblivion without civil immunity.

Honestly, if this was Florida or Texas he would probably walk free and not even be indicted - I'm pretty both of those state have very strong "Stand Your Ground" laws.

[Aerows]

139. I live in Mississippi

and also lived in Florida, and yes they have very strong Stand Your Ground laws, but even in those states, you can't just nearly kill someone if you can't prove you were in some amount of danger.

This woman is the size of a child or an elderly person. Laws are designed to protect us from "Might makes right", and there is nothing right about nearly killing someone over a parking space, no matter what they said, or if they lightly hit you. None.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

147. I think there are some mitigating circumstances in interpereting the outcome.

He hit her precisely once... presumably the greivious injury occurred when her head hit the ground. I think it's a long shot and a bit of sensationalism to claim "he beat her into a coma". Did he strik her? yes. But it's not like he sat there kicking the shit out of her until she was unconsious. Is she in a coma? yes. But that outcome is also the result of her head hitting the ground. I think it would be very difficult to prove his goal was to employ lethal force and nearly killing her in that situation.

Mitigating circumstances certainly exist here to have arrived a situation where we are claiming someone was "beat into a coma".

There are WHOLE LOT OF what-ifs that need to be answered before a correct conclusion can be arrived at. I'm sure the video (if real) will answer 99% of the questions surrounding this.

Who knows how hard she was hit??? It doesn't take much to knock someone down. I once went down on a concrete floor (play fighting) and got a concussion and there were no pushes or punches. I doubt my buddy's intention was to knock me out cold but it can happen.

[Aerows]

157. Okay, so...

...it's still okay to hit someone so hard that they slip into a coma over a parking spot, then attend a party later on after driving away like it was nothing.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

158. your conflating his actions' outcome with intent...

"okay to hit someone so hard that they slip into a coma over a parking spot"

Do you really think his goal was to "hit her so hard she would slip into a coma"? I doubt it. He probably surprised the hell out of her (lot's of girls expect they can't be hit back) and knocked her down. Concrete is hard... simply falling and hitting your head on concrete can seriously injure or kill you - even without getting clocked beforehand. And, if the video show what he claims it does, it sounds like he hit her because she was hitting him first.

We already know he's an idiot and hasn't displayed the best judgement throughout life... I'm not sure that physically fighting over parking spots or party/fleeing really brings any new insights as to what happened.

[LanternWaste]

232. I would imagine that in regards to any blow which has the force

I would imagine that in regards to any blow which has the force to knock someone off their feet, serious injury (including a coma) would have to be taken into account, regardless of where one lands.

[RamboLiberal]

+1 on Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground

Great explanation!

[okieinpain]

209. yes i can punch a smaller and weaker person. if you hit me

I will take that as a physical threat. you guy's are forgetting the days and times we live in, women do kill you know and if she's upset enough to actually hit someone she does not know then she's upset enough to do anything.

[RamboLiberal]

240. Try it and I'll bet you will end up in jail

[DeadEyeDyck]

89. I have to agree

Sex is not the issue. We have women demanding to serve in combat and to engage in contact sports.

[RamboLiberal]

98. Disparity of force is the issue

She was much smaller and weaker. She was about the size of a let's say a pre-teen child. What if a man 5'7", 150 lbs punched and knocked in to a coma a child of that size that stupidly smacked him in the face?

He had other options to defend himself against her without punching her so hard she flew off her feet. If nothing else all he had to do was put up his arms defensively and back the hell off. Or try to deescalate the situation verbally.

[niyad]

165. of course, if he hadn't gotten out of the car, she couldn't have struck him at all (even assuming

she did)

[okieinpain]

208. true, but its just as easy for a female to pull a pistol and shoot

as the next person. if she's crazy and upset enough to start hitting a stranger she just as easy could have went to the next level.

[superduperfarleft]

178. What do you mean he shouldn't be in trouble? He fucking almost killed someone.

I don't care if he was "justified," and I wouldn't care if this was two men duking it out instead of a man and a woman. If you're such absolute fucking trash that you get into a physical fight in the street over a parking spot, and something unexpected happens, you deserve what you get.

At least put him in prison to keep him from breeding and having a bunch of stupid children with equally poor impulse control.

[okieinpain]

206. she hit him first tell her about impulse control. keep your hands

to yourself or accept the risk.

[seabeyond]

51. today son telling me about female student that was kicking guys in the crotch. the substitute

supposedly didnt do anything. so i am talking to him about this thread. we go into grocery store and girl cashier and boy bagger are flirting. she says.... i should hit you. my head jerked up and i say.... NO hitting. just cause you are the girl you dont get to hit. then we had a long conversation, with the two flirting, about boy/girl interaction, roles ect.... and lots of giggles.

was interesting how they all rolled together this afternoon.

[Aerows]

61. Were the guys sexually harassing her?

You would be STUNNED how often that happens in junior high. It's not like your son is probably going to tell you, "Oh, she got groped". There is a reason why women become afraid when men get extremely aggressive, and usually it is because of past experience.

I'm 5'3" and have never weighed more than 110. I have had guys attempt to utilize their height advantage and weight advantage to take advantage. Would I kick them in the crotch? You bet.

[seabeyond]

66. no. i know what you are saying, and yes my son would tell me if that were the case

we have had that issue too, more times than i care to see, and he willingly and eagerly talks to me because generally he and a few others are the one speaking out.

lets not make girls all perfect and guys all bad. that is not the way it works.

since about first grade to about this age, 7th grade, there is a lot of acceptance of girls hitting, pinching, kicking, the boys. especially in the younger grades. i cannot tell you the number of times the girls have done this and the boys get in trouble. the teacher says, hey you are boys, buck up. i have told kids to get girls off.... somehow, push them off, whatever and they say, no they get in trouble.

it is not a new phenomenon.

the problem i have is that the girls get a pass. it has been my big issue with the girls that i dont see the teachers balancing.

i had one girl in sons 3rd grade that would often walk by and pinch his ear. (private school, i knew them all). i told her, quit pinching his ear. he is not allowed to hit back and it is not fair.

the power..... she says.

my mouth dropped open. could not believe it. she walked off before i could undrop my mouth

the reason this is so long.... i cannot do that it is always the boys and girls are always the victim. that just is not reality and sets up the males to not listen. why should they.

[Aerows]

69. When the kids

are about the same size, it's one thing, but when boys hit 12 and 13 and get much larger and stronger than girls, you really need to question the situation.

Smaller girls aren't usually going to initiate physical confrontations with big guys without a reason. Kids also mature at different rates, and some guys don't see anything wrong with running dropping their pants - because they didn't "touch" anyone.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but you really need to account for the disparity in bodily strength between boys and girls, not to mention that fact that what a guy might just think is being "pushy" a girl feels is being threatened.

That's why men aren't supposed to hit women in the first place, because they can more easily seriously injure a girl because they aren't fully aware of how strong they are.

[seabeyond]

121. and us women have to really get beyond always seeing it like this and not addressing how we raise

our girls. it does not behoove the girls anymore than it does the boys. as we call out our boys, we need to equally do the same with our girls. too often thru out elementary school, regardless of the situation, what was seen, heard, said.... it was always finding the fault in the boys or dismissing the girls behavior. as it was in this class. which allows the bad behavior to continue and builds resentments in the boys.... unless they have females in their lives that are willing to listen to their position equally to sharing the females position, expecting the boys to be receptive.

one of the hugest reasons my boys are open to all of this is because it is not them against us.... balanced and fair. equal respect

[Aerows]

127. No arguments from me on that :)

[Ilsa]

81. I don't pick fights with people smaller than me because that's wrong. And I don't

pick fights with people bigger than me because that's stupid.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

87. These two sentances pretty much sum it all up... +1

[TK421]

85. Jesus H. Christ what is this fucking country coming to?

[TicketyBoo]

97. No person

should be hitting another person.

If women want equality (and we do), then we should realize that we can't go around indiscriminately hitting men and expect it not to have ramifications.

Sadly, maybe it's too late for this woman, but the rest of us should take note.

[Liquorice]

99. How do you know she hit him? nt

[TicketyBoo]

259. Personally?

I don't, but it was postulated that it was so. It sounds reasonable to me that a guy wouldn't do this to her unless somehow provoked further than by her simply standing in a parking space.

If that isn't what happened, it can still be lesson not to hit.

I'd rather not be cited into court for assault by mutual consent, so I'm not going to hit someone, even if I feel threatened.

If I felt threatened, what I would do is get in my car and lock the doors. If I were on foot, I'd sit down on the ground and cover my head with my hands. Taking this posture lets someone know that you are not going to fight, and it can cool the situation. I know this from experience.

[Liquorice]

263. There are plenty of men who attack women without provocation. It happens

all the time. How do you think women get assaulted and raped every single day? They're not provoking men to rape and assault them. In this case the woman was saving a parking space, and the attacker wanted that parking space... He got mad and attacked her. That's not hard to imagine, especially considering the attacker has a very violent history of assaults.

In fact, the only person who said she hit him was the attacker himself. Why are earth would you believe HIM? He did, after all, just beat a woman into a coma. He certainly shouldn't have any credibility with anyone. According to witnesses, he jumped out of his van and viciously and repeatedly punched the woman in the face. No witness said she touched him.

It is interesting that so many people here are completely willing to believe the attacker's word automatically and without any evidence whatsoever. It's quite revealing.

As for curling up in a ball, she obviously didn't have time. I'm sure you're not implying the woman is responsible for her injuries because she didn't adequately protect herself, are you?

[TicketyBoo]

264. Of course not.

I've already said that nobody deserves to be hit.

People here really twist things around to suit their own agenda. Oh, well.

[Aerows]

103. Well then...

...I guess we can't go around indiscriminately defending ourselves, either, if we feel physically threatened.

You punch a woman that weighs 100 lbs. so hard she flies off of her feet and slips into a coma, the ramifications will be that you will go to jail. If it was a 5'10" 160 lbs. female that did this, guess what? Sex still wouldn't matter, because the one that committed grievous bodily harm crossed the line.

If you doubt that, you really need to look up assault laws.

[Liquorice]

109. +1. This is all very disturbing to me. People are arguing that this

man had a right to defend himself, and they are basing that argument on HIS statement about the attack. Of course he's going to say she hit him. What else could he say? He got out of his car and violently assaulted a woman. He then sped off to escape the police and went to a birthday party like nothing happened. If people there hadn't gotten his license plate, he'd be home free.

I'm disgusted by the attitudes here--a lot of people here automatically took what the perpetrator said as the truth and then condemned the woman in the coma. It reminds me of when a man rapes a woman and then says she came onto him. It just makes me sick.

[Aerows]

122. Pretty much

They act like a woman slapping a man is a justification for the use of deadly force, when it isn't, not ethically nor legally.

Half of these justifiers really need to look up assault and self-defense laws, because if they behave this way, they will be headed the same place this guy is headed - prison.

He was not in any way, shape or form threatened with serious bodily injury, and he could have turned around and got back into his car, or even more, never gotten out of it to begin with. No, he felt "justified" in getting the parking space, and "justified" slugging a woman so hard he put her in a coma. Then he ran when the boyfriend arrived, and likely would have actually been under a serious threat. Why didn't he just turn around and run away to begin with?

It was an act of savagery on his part, pure and simple.

[seabeyond]

173. again, not saying he is justified.... saying she is not justfied in hitting.

do you get the difference. you two are overlooking, excusing, justifying her hitting as you condemn the man. others are saying to you BOTH are not allowed to hit.

[pitohui]

239. she didn't hit anyone so why the focus on she was not justified in hitting?

there is something wrong w. these repeated posts that keep saying, well, she is not justified in hitting him

she DIDN'T hit him, NO ONE SAYS THAT SHE IS JUSTIFIED IN HITTING HIM

he got out of his car and brutally assaulted her, probably causing permanent brain injury which is WORSE than killing her dead

and you are defending this guy and repeating his lies?

there were witnesses, multiple ones, that's how they tracked him down, you know

but you'd rather take the side of the guy who jumped out of his car, beat a woman to disabling injury, and then fled the scene, and who was only found because of witnesses getting his license plate?

you believe that guy and repeat his lies over dozens of posts?

where are DU's moderators?????

[seabeyond]

243. for the first EIGHT hours we had one story. and that was a part of the story. late last night

the story shifted. the majority of the posts was when both sides of the argument thought the woman hit first. if you will take note, there were ones arguing even though she hit first.... didnt matter.

so the whole premise of the debate on this thread is.... do we dismiss a womans violence and only hold a man accountable.

[Quantess]

222. Or, why didn't he just stay in his car?

Stepping out of his car was a physically aggressive gesture. He was not acting in self defense, I agree with you.

[Horse with no Name]

130. Well since she is unable to give a statement...

I guess his word is the truth!

[seabeyond]

172. i dont know about others, i am not saying he has the right to hit, i say she does NOT have the right

to hit.

and over and over and over.

NEITHER have the right to hit

[Liquorice]

177. Witnesses at the scene say he hit her repeatedly. She didn't hit

him. He jumped out of his van and started screaming at her. He then punched her repeatedly in the face.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Man-Accused-of-Beating-Woman-Into-Coma-It-Was-a-Reaction-117518798.html

This man also has an extensive record of violent assault, and that IS relevant to this discussion.

[wickerwoman]

179. Nobody is arguing that she has a right to hit him.

The point is that if someone hits you, and you hit them back, be prepared for some serious legal consequences unless you can prove that you were in real danger. This is especially true when one person is obviously larger and stronger than the other, regardless of gender.

It's always better to walk away if you can, no matter who hit first.

Some people on this thread, by focusing on the woman's action seem almost to be excusing the man's by saying "well, if you hit someone, expect to be hit back". That's not how the law works in most places.

Hitting someone is assault, regardless of your genitalia. Escalating the fight by hitting back when you could have walked away is also assault, not self-defense. Leaving a 4'11" unconscious woman with a head wound bleeding on the concrete and going to a party without reporting the fight is fleeing the scene of a crime, which also carries legal consequences.

The woman shouldn't have hit him. Fine. But she doesn't deserve to be a coma as a result and she's not in a coma just because she slapped the wrong guy. Most of the responsibility lies with the bigger, stronger person with the car who used disproportionate force and then didn't report the incident.

[Liquorice]

181. She didn't hit him. He hit her repeatedly however. ...Editing to add

that I agree with your post, but I wanted to make it clear that witnesses at the scene are saying he jumped out of his van and hit her in the face repeatedly.

It's a travesty that so many people automatically believed his bullshit "defense" that she hit him and then he reacted.

[TorchTheWitch]

184. he also cried the blues that no one told him how badly she was injured

Well, DUH! You fled the scene and had to be tracked down!

We're actually supposed to believe a single word he says when he COMPLAINS that he wasn't told how badly she was injured when he punched her repeatedly and fled the scene to blithely attend a party??? We're supposed to really believe that he ever gave a shit about what he did to her when he did all that???

[Liquorice]

224. Yep, the response to this story has been shocking. There are apparently

both men and women here who will take a violent criminal's word for it with no other evidence required. Then they will defend the violent criminal's actions of putting a woman in a coma by using HIS statement alone to make HER culpable for the attack. As I said before, it eerily reminds me of rape cases where the attacker blames the woman and says she came onto him and "wanted" it. Unbelievable.

[LanternWaste]

219. It would appear that we have many...

'so many people automatically believed his bullshit "defense"...'

It would appear that we have many posters who believe in both the moral and the legal approbation of an "eye for an eye". And to be honest, that observation is putting it in its most delicate terms.

[TorchTheWitch]

183. you and me both

I seriously do not get this sick attitude. AT ALL.

[madinmaryland]

101. Deleted for a rule violation. nt

[TK421]

104. probably won't, don't you think?

[madinmaryland]

138. Probably won't what? I didn't say anything about Michael Vick or

no Super Bowl Championships in Philadelphia.

:shrug:

[TK421]

160. My mistake then....I thought you weren't a douchebag

:-)

[madinmaryland]

162. I didn't say that I was a douchebag, either.

:hi:

[TK421]

169. yeah, I know

[madinmaryland]

170. ...

Don't quote me, but I can be a douchebag!

:hi:

[Generic Brad]

155. That must have been one really great parking space

But even if it was, the consequences were not worth it.

[Skip Intro]

175. Jail for years. Hopefully someone will beat the shit out of him, repeatedly, disgusting pos. nt

[MilesColtrane]

182. Dammit, stories like this are bad for my blood pressure.

I want to hurt him.

[Mimosa]

188. I've noticed more road rage than ever before

I've seen the ugly parking spot competition. It's bad in Atlanta. And yes, there is a racial element as there was in that New york incident.

[Aerows]

190. New Update

Here's the latest: "After she explained she was saving the spot, Fuller jumped out, started screaming at her, and then punched her in the face "with so much force that the woman flew off her feet," according to court papers.
According to witnesses he hit her several more times before speeding off. Stunned onlookers took down his license plate number. He was tracked down at his home in Jamaica. "

So, he screamed at her, punched her in the face, and then hit her again.

I'd LOVE to hear the defenders justify this - as many of us pointed out yesterday, he already has an assault conviction and drug possession. But, oh no, a 4'11, 100 lbs woman, he claimed hit him, so it was self-defense and she was in the wrong.

Now it comes out that she didn't hit, and it was far more than one punch, which is what logical people would have assumed anyway given the fact that she went into a coma from the beating.

Automatically defend a man with a history of violence when he puts a woman in the hospital with a coma over a parking spot, drives away and attends a party... because he said she "hit" him.

[lumberjack_jeff]

191. This is why men shouldn't hit women. It's also why women shouldn't hit men. n/t

[Aerows]

192. Now witnesses say...

...she didn't hit him, and he hit her repeatedly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

199. self delete - found the link

[SOS]

196. Before clicking on this thread

I just knew it would be in NYC.
Working outdoors in this city for many years, I have seen fist fights, baseball bats swung and even a machete drawn over a parking spot.
It's insane.

Best advice on this thread: Driving is not an emotional experience.

[Dappleganger]

197. He got out of the car--that shows intent to harm.

He could have driven away in the safety of his vehicle but chose to escalate the argument instead. If I was on that jury it would be very difficult for me to dismiss the charges against him. She should also be charged with assault for hitting him even though she was seriously injured.

It was a parking space, not his home or place of employment. He had no personal ownership of the space even with a signal.

[VoteProgressive]

207. He lost his temper. Simple as that.

[RamboLiberal]

210. Here's Faux News Twit Meghyn Kelly on this story

Megyn Kelly gets paid ungodly sums by Fox News to keep Americans as angry and ignorant as possible. She is also an attorney, which qualifies her to hold forth in a segment she calls Kelly's Court, in which she rules with a sagacity that may one day lead her all the way to the Supreme Court. Why, just the other day, Kelly's Court came to order to settle a case that has divided no one. Judge Kelly herself describes it best in this tweet: "A man beats a 100 pound woman into a coma over a parking space. He claims she deserves it. Could he be right?"

http://gothamist.com/2011/03/09/fox_news_did_woman_beaten_over_park.php

[cherokeeprogressive]

218. This makes me terribly sad and a little bit ashamed

of my gender. No man should ever hit a woman, and by extension, I'd be happy if no human ever hit another living thing.

My ex-wife kicked, slapped, bit, and generally made "not nice" to me. Not once did I feel the slightest urge to retaliate. Not. Once.

Shame on this idiot for not being able to fend off a blow from a person 6" shorter and 50lbs lighter. Double shame on him for feeling the need to do to her what she allegedly did to him.

Sad sad.

[Liquorice]

221. She didn't hit him. He just said she did so he could claim self-defense. For some

strange reason, many people here took his word for it, that she hit him, and decided that he was somehow justified, or that they were both equally wrong. That's bs, just as you stated. But the real truth is she didn't hit him. He got out of his van and attacked her, punching her in the face repeatedly. Witnesses at the scene saw him do it.

I'm totally disgusted by the way he has been defended and she has been criticized here, all based on the attacker's statement and nothing more. It's actually kind of scary to see some of the disturbing attitudes both men and women here have toward women.

[seabeyond]

233. the simple fact is, if there is no video and witnesses saying she didnt hit, ALL this debate is moot

what peeople are discussing here is a womans violence to men acceptable and not vice versa.

if his defense proves to be untrue, then there will be no more discussion.

[LanternWaste]

234. Not to belittle any one point

Not to belittle any one point, but the undercurrent I see in this thread isn't so much the equality of perspective re: Female Vs. Male Violence, but more a comment on the proportionality of his response to her alleged violence.

If Luxembourg declares war on the United States, yes-- it is technically an act of aggression and an act of war. And I imagine the joint chiefs would eventually realize that... after they stopped laughing uncontrollably at the absurdity of it all. Regardless of Luxembourg's actions, I think we can safely say that a diplomatic route is the preferred choice. Yes... nuking Luxembourg is a possibility, but one fraught with so many negative and unintended consequences as to make it a laughable choice.


Take it for what it's worth-- I simply don't think that a petite female slapping a moderate to large male can actually be called violence (this coming from a guy who was slapped quite often (and for good reasons) many, many times in his younger and headier days).

[RamboLiberal]

238. +1 Love your analogy

[seabeyond]

244. petite female slapping a moderate to large male can actually be called violence

i am bothered by that thinking. that very thinking is what has made the little boys have to endure the hitting, pinching, kicking, biting, pushing with absolutely no recourse and that feeling stays with kids. and the girls feel empowered to any behavior with no repercussions. i think it is wrong. i think it is equally a diservice to our girls to teach them that they get to be victim at all cost and take absolutely no responsibility for their action

in so many ways,.... i think htis is wrong

i totally get the proportionality of it all. to me that is a duh.... but i cannot, in any way, justify, validate, dismiss or excuse a woman feeling she has a right to abuse and should demand none in return.

nothing in my scales of justice will allow that to balance.

[Liquorice]

246. You're right.. It's a silly argument that people are making here--that a

woman hitting a man is just cause to knock her into a coma, or even to hit her back in any way. My dad taught me that any man who would hit a woman is a coward. He's right.


*edited out a family story because it's being used against my family*

[Taitertots]

258. If Luxembourg attacked, the US military would decimate them

Declaring war is not the same as actively attacking someone.

[LanternWaste]

260. Which appears to be what he did,

"...the US military would decimate them.."

Which appears to be precisely what he did to her, despite that fact that she didn't initiate the violence.

[Liquorice]

245. Yes, but why were you so willing to believe the attacker in this

situation? You argued over and over as if it's a fact that she hit him. It is not a fact. It's not even true. Before I read the article about the witnesses, I kept saying that we didn't know if she hit him, and you kept arguing that she did. I also argued that even if she did, it was almost certainly because he got out of his car and charged after her in an aggressive way. You rejected that flat out, and insisted that she was wrong to hit him.

Why would you give this man the benefit of the doubt? He put the woman in a coma. Of course he's going to lie. When people commit crimes, they usually lie about the crime in order to escape justice. And yet, you were immediately convinced that the victim in this case hit the attacker. That has become one of the main issues in this thread for me. Why are so many here willing to automatically accept as fact the word of the man who viciously attacked this woman? There's something VERY WRONG with that.

[seabeyond]

248. because this story really is not relevent. the issue discussed is a woman allowed to hit with not

only no remorse, but like your mom hitting your father.... women get to be PROUD of inflicting violence on the male.

that is what i am discussing. this event is done and over. it is the concept i am discussing.....

i cannot wrap around my head the acceptance you have with female committing violence on a man. i t makes NO sense to me at all

[Liquorice]

250. I just completely disagree with you. First, I never said my

mom was proud of anything. My DAD is proud that she did it and stopped putting up with his bullshit. Second, the issue of believing the attacker's lies without any evidence whatsoever is very relevant to this entire thread. This case isn't about female violence, Seabeyond. The woman didn't hit that man. You just believed she did because her attacker said so. When a rapist says his victim asked for it or came onto him first, do you automatically believe that too? Criminals lie about their crimes.

[seabeyond]

251. regardless of the position that a person argued, everyone went on this basis of she hit first

(and still we dont know. still it is a wait and see)

that is what the discussion was about. you can make it into something it is not. but that is what all of us, on both sides was discussing.

did your mom feel like shit for hitting your father? did she teach you how WRONG it was to hit another person even out of frustration?

it is not sounding to me like it as you tell the story

and not at ONE point have you even hinted there is an issue with women committing violence on men. you have given it a HUGE thumbs up.

[Liquorice]

252. We do know she didn't hit him. How many witnesses do you need to

overcome your bias? One man (the attacker) says it's true; does that mean two women have to say it isn't? I don't get it. She didn't hit him. You really need to come to terms with the fact that you were all too willing to believe an attacker's version of events. It says something about you.

As for the details of my family story, that's really none of your business. Please don't attack my family or the way I was raised. I was just telling an amusing family story. And we all think it's funny because it was. My dad wasn't lying in a pool of blood or in a coma after she punched him. It didn't even hurt. My husband thinks this whole thing is ridiculous as well. I asked him if he's afraid I might hit him and we both laughed our asses off. My husband doesn't have battered man syndrome, so don't worry.

[seabeyond]

253. lawyer says he has a video. i am sorry that i leave things open. that i dont know for fact he does

not have video. the witnesses may be right on. the woman may not have hit him. it will be proved in court, so i or anyone on this board hardly matters.

what if a video comes out and she is hitting him... wont you feel stupid? (or it simply doesnt matter if she is hitting him) i can not conform to your will

i am not attacking your family. i am again, listening to you how readily you accept women being physically violent with men.

you put it out there. still, you hold to, it is acceptable for women to be physically violent.

we disagree

[Liquorice]

254. His lawyer is floating the video story. It's not true. There were witnesses at the

scene. Did you not see the link to the news article?
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Man-Accused-of-Beating-Woman-Into-Coma-It-Was-a-Reaction-117518798.html

You believe a violent criminal over unbiased witnesses? You trust his word with no evidence whatsoever, just the promise of a video by his lawyer. That's a real shame and kind of bizarre really.

And women hitting men is your big issue? That's what bothers you? Not the woman in the coma, not all the women who are raped and beaten and murdered every day at the hands of men, but a woman potentially slapping a man's face? Give me a fucking break. Really.

You did attack the way I was raised, which just speaks volumes more about your character. I hope one day you can "see beyond" your biases and realize you're wrong to tenaciously believe a violent criminal, even while his victim struggles to live. That is the real tragedy here.

[seabeyond]

255. there is so much wrong in your post, i could not even begin to correct you on it all.

all the conclusions you draw are wrong. so i will let it go here.

[Javaman]

213. He'll have a lot of time to think over his "apology" in prison.

the poor woman.

[RedCloud]

216. I think he should face Mike Tyson to understand size and power issues.

[Quantess]

220. He is the one who got out of his car.

Why would he get out of his car except to physically intimidate her? At the very least, he intended to physically threaten her, by stepping out of the car. I'm not buying "self defense".

[pitohui]

241. it is obvious this guy is the aggressor, there is no self defense here

she's standing in a parking space, too bad, so sad, it annoys me too, but i don't jump out of my car, beat the crap out of somebody such that they are permanently brain injured and will possibly die, then jump back in my car, speed away, only to be found because the horrified witnesses got my license plate number, i don't do all that, get arrested, and the claim that SHE attacked ME and expect half of DU to believe my lies

are there really this many stupid people in the world? quantess etc. is right, HE got out of the car, we have multiple witnesses, so why don't we believe common sense, the witnesses, and reality based universe instead of a violent offender's lies?

he got out of the car and attacked her period, it disgusts me that there are a number of DUers trying to defend this man's actions, what the hell is wrong with them? OK, one poster claims that one time an elementary school girl twisted her son's ear when they were like 9 and wasn't punished...so that's why she believes the violent man instead of the innocent unconscious woman???? how do you get there from here? nope, i still don't get it, what the hell is wrong that we have this long of a thread filled w. multiple posts defending and parroting a violent liar's lies?

for those who will always take the word of a man, no matter how violent, no matter how badly the woman is injured, i wish the same for your daughters that you wish for me

[Liquorice]

247. Exactly. You've summed up a lot of my thoughts about this thread with this post.. nt

[Quantess]

256. Great post.

I don't always agree with you, but this time you are right on. :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

257. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Quantess]

262. Soooo Awesome, Bro!!! High 5 n shit!

But really. Why did he step out of his car? What was he thinking?
He wanted to physically intimidate her.

Edit to add: You probably shouldn't suggest that males are being lynched by women. You are so darling! And hilarious and embarrassing.