New research shows that having kids is financially foolish and makes parents delusional

[Liberal_in_LA]

Kid Crazy: Why We Exaggerate the Joys of Parenthood

having kids is a blessing — except when it's a nightmare of screaming fits, diapers, runny noses, wars over bedtimes and homework and clothes. To say nothing of bills too numerous to list. Some economists have argued that having kids is an economically silly investment; after all, it's cheaper to hire end-of-life care than to raise a child. Now comes new research showing that having kids is not only financially foolish but that kids literally make parents delusional.

Researchers have known for some time that parents with minors who live at home report feeling calm significantly less often than than people who don't live with young children. Parents are also angrier and more depressed than nonparents — and each additional child makes them even angrier. Couples who choose not to have kids also have better, more satisfying marriages than couples who have kids.

To be sure, all such evidence will never outweigh the desire to procreate, which is one of the most powerfully encoded urges built into our DNA. But a new paper shows that parents fool themselves into believing that having kids is more rewarding than it actually is. It turns out parents are in the grip of a giant illusion.

-------------

Why? For the same reason you keep spending money to fix up an old car when it just doesn't work — or keep investing in the same company when it's failing. Humans throw good money after bad all the time. When we have invested a lot in a choice that turns out to be bad, we're really inept at admitting that it didn't make rational sense.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/04/why-having-kids-is-foolish/#ixzz1Fy6FEuYj

[kwassa]

1. sounds like the personal prejudice of the article's author, to me.

[yurbud]

16. tokophobia

[FredStembottom]

60. I was just about to add the comment:

this "article" sounds like the text from a Tom Tomorrow cartoon!

[Dorian Gray]

27. Me too

[NeedleCast]

59. Considering that the information in the article has been researched

and that the article links to that research, it should be obvious that it's not just the prejudice of the author.

How many do you have?

[greendog]

2. This'll be good.

:popcorn:

[Mimosa]

3. That's just MEAN. And I don't have kids.

Now it's time to blame people for having chldren instead of blaming a system which is denying help to parents and denying good educations to children. *ICK*

[Bluzmann57]

4. At he risk of sounding melodramatic

I wouldn't trade my kids for anything in the world. Hell, they turned out better than their old man.

[ClarkUSA]

5. Bill Gates' and Mark Zuckerberg's parents would beg to differ.

Ditto for Steve Jobs' parents or Kate Middleton's parents. ;)

[Liberal_in_LA]

7. Bill Gates dad was pretty rich on his own... law firm or something like that

[ClarkUSA]

17. He was an engineer. His mom was a teacher. They were solidly middle-class.

I should know. Both my parents were engineers and we sure weren't wealthy.

[kwassa]

20. Uh, no, he was an attorney, and his father was rich, and Bill was a trust fund baby

Great-grandfather owned a bank, Bill had a million dollar trust fund.

Bill came from money, and made much more.

[Liberal_in_LA]

22. That's what I heard.

[ClarkUSA]

26. You're both right. For some reason, I thought Bill, Sr. was an engineer! But his mom was a teacher.

If he was so rich, why did he start Microsoft in the family garage, I wonder?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

51. Maybe it wasn't the typical 2 car garage.

Or maybe it's mythology.

[TBF]

32. It's the Maxwell side of the family -

they are the banking family of Seattle.

[SOS]

49. His rich family enabled him to start MS

The initial startup capital came from daddy.
Same with Bezos of Amazon.
When the Wall Street bankers turned him down he got half a million from his old man.

Remember, this is a level playing field meritocracy!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Missy Vixen]

30. Bill Gates' father recently wrote and funded an initiative to tax the very wealthy

in Washington State. Mr. Gates said that his son's not paying his fair share on his billions is unacceptable.

I'm thinking that Bill isn't especially happy with his dad right now.

[Arctic Dave]

6. My parents must have been different, they had no problem telling us we ruined their life.

My Dad has a bald spot and grey hair from us. Mom has a big waistline and wrinkles over her entire body thanks us "damn kids".

LOL, from the snotty nosed brats.

[seabeyond]

8. or, this study is full of shit and some of us actually enjoy our kids. i played single for lots of

years. now i am doing just what i want to be doing and enjoying it more.

btw... was telling kids to "knock it off" with a little tiff and then proceeded to tell them about this study, the other night, lol lol.

see how much fun it is having kids.

[midnight]

9. I'm recommending this only because to be a parent is so very time

and financially consuming that our govt. needs to snap out of it's delusional thinking and pay attention.... Make healthcare affordable to this very brave souls that bring into the world the next generation... I know the number crutchers say the next generation in another country is more profitable and blah blah blah.... This country needs to invest in it's future, and these parents need help..... My heart goes out to parents everywhere who are doing their best.... I think I read that in France women get help with laundry and cooking.... I love that idea.....

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. Parents use to have assistance from the extended family and community, now

the burden falls entirely upon two adults and often one adult. That's a big load to carry.

[Taitertots]

50. It takes a village to raise a child

Parents should consider the wants and needs of the community they expect to raise their children for them.

[JoePhilly]

10. Oh brother (or sister) ...

My wife and I have three kids. And the only reason that they make life more difficult is because managing the activities of 5 people is harder than managing the activities of 2 people. Duh.

But watching (and helping) our kids thrive is more satisfying than any personal success I've ever had. In fact, I've delayed tackling certain work because while it would advance me professionally, I'd be pulled away from the kids. And I enjoy seeing them succeed far more.

[cbdo2007]

87. agree

These stupid studies don't seem to have a way to put a value on raising kids so it automatically makes it worthless on paper.

You are totally correct on the sacrifices you've had to make personally and professionally, but while many people see that as a "loss" they are devalueing the positive parts of having kids. Just seeing my baby girl smile once is enough to make it worth my while to give up hours and hours of my own free time doing hobbies or side jobs that would bring in extra money.

[FirstLight]

11. Insanity *IS* hereditary...

Parent's get it from their kids! :rofl:

I'ts the toughest job you will ever love, but I tell ya...
I tell my little ones even now, when I am 50 and they are 18...I am outta here!
selling everything and heading to backpack in europe or whatnot...they can find me in the ashram ;)

looking forward to the rest, for sure :nuts: lol

[annabanana]

12. I was much calmer when they were living at home..

Hair goes gray because you no longer know what risks they're taking/

[devils chaplain]

14. I trust science...

And the evidence that this is true is pretty convincing. That being said, I still plan on having kid(s) one day.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joshcryer]

48. Aww, I missed the presumbably nasty subthread for this. :(

[yurbud]

15. no one is going to force anyone to have kids, but I've seen old people with no families

and they led very quiet, tedious, lives.

By contrast, my grandparents house was always filled with people right up until and after my grandfather died. I don't think it's the same to have a minimum wage attendant hold your hand as you die as having your own child there.

[Mimosa]

21. Definitely not the same. I was with my mom, and my grandmother.

When I die, it could be nobody will be with me, no children or grandchildren to love and remember me. :(

[REP]

23. My uncle died alone. No one found his body for days. He had three children.

On the other hand, another man, married with no children, died surrounded by many, many close lifetime friends.

Has more to do with who you are while you're alive than how you've reproduced.

[joshcryer]

34. +1. "Has more to do with who you are while you're alive than how you've reproduced."

Nice comment.

[SOS]

64. Yes

If you have lived a life of love, compassion, kindness and generosity, all of that will come back to you.
If you have lived the life of a nasty curmudgeon, even your kids won't show up.

[yesphan]

86. Well said

from someone with no kids but with many good friends. BTW, at a stage in my life
where having kids is no longer a viable option.

Another BTW, not having kids has never bothered my or left me feeling empty or unfulfilled.
On the other hand, if I would have had kids, I would have made the best of that situation and
done my best as a father.

[Pool Hall Ace]

29. Of course, you cannot guarantee children will surround an eldery parent at death.

While my oldest brother was with my mother when she died, the majority of her end-of-life care was handled by me -- her childfree child!

My point is that if you think that your children will take care of you when you are old, they may not be able to because they are too busy raising their own children.

[Missy Vixen]

31. Our grandma had five children

She is unable to speak now after a massive stroke last year, but she told me more than once that she was unhappy as a parent, and very proud of our decision to NOT have children.

Here's to the tedious life! :toast:

[DaisyDeedles]

33. Plenty of people WITH kids are ignored in nursing homes too.

Many times there was a bad family life and bitterness. There are no guarantees in life. None. I'm estranged from my extended (Southern Baptist) family because I'm gay.

[Heddi]

42. I'm an RN, working in an ER but previously on critical care floor. I have seen more people die w/o

family being there than I have seen them die WITH family being there...and I'm talking specifically about people who have children who live in the area, who have a spouse who lives in the area, who has family that lives in the area, and the children are called by the RN, or the MD, or social work and told that mom or dad or sibling is dying, and they say "oh, okay, here's the funeral home information, let them know we'll be there tomorrow.."

There is a lady that comes to the ER very regularly. She's about 87 or so years old, has had both of her arms and both of her legs amputated inch by inch over the last 10 years because of diabetes and such. She has end stage liver disease, and end stage kidney disease. She has to be dialyzed 4 times a week. She has had MRSA and C-DIFF and VRE for the last 4 years. She has had massive strokes and is nonverbal. She cannot eat and has a feeding tube surgically implanted in her stomach. Her daughters, who never come to the hospital keep making her a full code, so that when she goes into cardiac arrest (which she has done about 15 times that I'm aware of), we do CPR and all this stuff just to keep her alive long enough to cut another 2 inches off her leg, or give her another stroke, or have a pacemaker implanted.

She came in the other day. Daughters live about 14 blocks away. they are mobile enough to be able to come to the hospital, but they don't. we intubate the poor woman (put her on a breathing machine). Her blood pressure is dangerously low and her heart rate is dangerously low (her pacemaker isn't working anymore). Her body is trying to die and her kids won't let her. but they're not there at the bedside, either.

she's been in the hospital for 14 days. I've read the nurses and MD's note. Children have never come in to be with her.

The idea that children are birthed to be a caretaker in old age is a gravely erroneous decision to make, imo. I have been there to hold the hand of the dying (and dying for a long time know they are going to die are you going to come to the hospital so we can extubate them kind of dying, not sudden death) more than I care to, because family members are too preoccupied or greedy or uncaring or have their own lives to deal with. That's fine, I know it's part of the job and I'm happy to do it. But please don't paint all children as saints, and all parents as being loved and cared for and visited until their last breath, while the childfree sit and rot without a single visitor. I often find it's the opposite---those without children or family have visitors from church or social groups or just friends, while those with living and mobile families sit and rot unvisited.

Just go to a local nursing home or retirement center to see the forgotten parents who rot away in a shared room that is now their house while their kids come maybe for an hour every other christmas.

[SOS]

67. Thank you for sharing that story

It's a reminder to everyone to have a living will in place and filed with your primary care MD and your lawyer.
One mustn't leave these important matters in the hands of people who don't even show up.

[fishwax]

44. I've seen old people without children who led active and social lives

With plenty of interaction with and support from friends, siblings, nieces and nephews, and so on. I don't think either having kids or not having kids is a guarantee of a golden time in one's golden years.

[taught_me_patience]

18. I'm doing my part to populate the US with little liberals!

damn proud of it too (although it is pretty expensive. One more kid and we're going to have to move to a house.)

[cali]

19. oh for fuck's sake.

stupid. unbelievably stupid.

[Missy Vixen]

28. I'm happy to be childfree

I've never regretted one minute of my decision to not have children.

It's also interesting to me that those we've met who are unhappiest about their own decision to procreate are the angriest about the fact that we chose not to.

[HappyMe]

68. My sister says the same thing.

She and her husband don't have kids, don't regret it either.

I could never understand the people that gave them a bunch of grief for their choice.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. You've honestly met people who give a shit? You need to find different people to hang out with.

I can't imagine any possible reason why I would second-guess someone else's decision to not have kids. Of course, I expect that same courtesy about my decision TO have them.

I am also, of course, assuming you're not mistaking the statement "I choose not to have kids, I respect your choice just like you should respect mine" for "I'm sure you stupid breeders regret your decision to flood the world with your mewling brats".

[HappyMe]

89. I can't speak for Missy V.

However, I have been at dinner parties at my sister's house, where guests with kids have hassled them. Two of the couples brought their kids. One was a baby. While I got more drinks, my sister held the baby. Baby mama kept pestering sister about how nice baby is, don't you want one, sooo fulfilling, etc. My sis explained that the decision to not have kids was a mutual one, that they like children, but just don't want any of their own. Baby mama kept going on & on. I handed baby mama tray of juice & crackers for other kids and herded her out. My sister was upset as she had known baby mama before she was married. I told my sister, your life, your decision, not her business, ignore it.

My sister and brother-in-law have 8 nieces & nephews. They love these kids. They have babysat for neighbors. I have never heard anything disrespectful come out of my sister or brother-in-laws mouths about mewling brats or over population.

I believe my sister and baby mama are still friends. They just don't get dinner party invites as often.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Short of specifics, but it sounds like "baby mama" (is that her real name?) was out of line.

So are the people (maybe not at your dinner parties, but they inevitably show up around here) who do go on about overpopulation, breeders, keep your mewling brats out of public, etc.

I mean, it's one thing to say "isn't the baby nice"? It's another thing to pester or make someone else uncomfortable. I don't sit in judgment of other peoples' life choices, unfortunately there are way too many people- some of them here- who do.

[rucky]

35. I bet you can take the same data and form different conclusions:

Financial burden is greater with families. Americans tie happiness to financial well-being. It's necessary now in many households for both parents to work, making parenting more stressful.

So it's the financial pressure - some by choice, but mostly not - that's making parents less happy. Not having kids in and of itself.

[The Straight Story]

36. Well, when you make life about money not much else is important

When money is someone's god, all else becomes nothing but something that keeps you from it.

Witness even liberal folks who would sell freedom and choice for more $$.

[seaglass]

83. That's my take on it. Hell, I know what my husband and I could have bought,

the vacations we could have taken, the early retirement that could have been ours if we didn't have kids.

Our kids have made our lives immeasurably richer than any material goods or vacations could have and I don't feel like I missed anything worthwhile.

[Cleita]

37. Sounds like the author is trying to justify not having

kids because if this is true, we might as well end the human race now.

[devils chaplain]

39. This isn't just an opinion piece by the author...

This is what studies have repeatedly shown. But that doesn't mean we should end the human race -- endless future generations with a "6" on the happiness scale is superior to one more generation at an "8", no?

[Cleita]

41. Maybe he found some studies that back his premise. n/t

[Radical Activist]

38. A good reason for electing more childless people to office.

[BillyJack]

40. LOVE does NOT make any sense whatsoever......

yet, it is TRULY GRAND!!!!

This article (or whatever it was/is) was obviously written by one of those BEAN COUNTERS who have been put in charge of multiple corporations to make sure that MONEY trumps ALL.

....accountants will be dethroned. haha

[fishwax]

43. I'm skeptical of the interpretation of the study

Certainly it makes sense that parents who see negative economic data might respond by defensively emphasizing the emotional benefits, but it doesn't follow that having kids makes parents delusional. (That's not an unusual response, I think, when you perceive an "attack" on your family.)

If they did a similar study for committed non-parents, in which one group saw the same "negative" data about parenting and another saw the same "positive" data about parenting, then it wouldn't be a huge surprise if the group faced with the data that calls into question their decision (or imposed reality) to not be parents by touting the financial benefits children provide in old age were to respond by being more enthusiastic about the perceived benefits of not having children.

[treestar]

45. The rewards may not be monetary

This is not even taken into account by this article.

[guitar man]

46. Well, you know

Whoever wrote that paper was a kid once too. Somebody changed their shitty diapers and bandaged their knees and hopefully loved and nurtured them. They'd do well to remember that ;)

[Pool Hall Ace]

47. BINGO!

:woohoo:

[kenny blankenship]

52. It turns out parents are in the grip of a giant illusion.

Like everybody else who woke up this morning.

[seabeyond]

56. lol lol. i was thinking. dont we all create our own to live in, and

very comfortably too.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Oh yeah, Mr. Head In A Jar Hallucinating This Entire Thing?

Oh no, I've said too much.

[fishwax]

105. lol -- indeed n/t

[ladywnch]

53. flame on. I find this article to be true. n/t

[seabeyond]

57. if that is how you feel raising kids, then fine. no one is going ot flame you. but i dont have to

own it.

[ladywnch]

103. fair enough. and thank you. n/t

[bemildred]

54. Well then, I suggest all those people who agree avoid reproducing.

The study is absolutely correct, having children is not a reliable money-making business.

[BobbyBoring]

84. Unless your kids are

Tiger Woods, The Williams sisters, The Jacksons, etc. Works out well for a few although I don't think that's what having kids is all about~

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

55. This is News?

I used to take drugs to be broke and delusional. Now I have two kids and the same results. Plus, I don't have to drive through bad neighborhoods anymore!

[Colorado Liberal]

58. Amazing how...

the author comes to the conclusion now that his parents have raised him - wonder if they feel like they threw "good money after bad"?

[ZombieHorde]

61. Maybe unhappy people are more likely to have kids?

Isn't "financially foolish" an opinion based on one's life priorities? I doubt the researchers used that phrase.

I don't doubt human parents are delusional.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. My wife and I chose to stick with cats. Cheaper and easier to herd.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Oh man. If I'm deluded, so be it. My kids bring me immeasurable joy.

It that's all an illusion, well, it's an illusion that makes me incredibly happy.

Of all the decisions I've ever made, having kids was by far the best one.

[L0oniX]

65. We had no kids by choise but after having 4 parrots I got fixed.

[magdalena]

66. I'm currently pregnant with my first child.

Wish I would have seen this article sooner before I totally screwed myself over. :eyes:

[cbdo2007]

70. ha ha - literally!

[Arugula Latte]

74. Congratulations, magdalena. You are in for a world of fun.

Yes, it is hard and costly and a lot of wiping of many surfaces -- skin and otherwise -- is involved in the early years. :) But that all pales in comparison to the laughter and love and joy.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. Oh, yeah. I've spent every single day since I had kids regretting it.

Actually, no. There's a small, angry crowd without kids that has temper tantrums any time anyone says something like this, but it was far and away the most meaningful thing I've done in my entire life.

Worth all the headaches, lost sleep, and difficulties a million times over. Congratulations.

[Missy Vixen]

94. Weren't you chiding me above for comments I have never made on this website

about "breeders"? Why do you believe it's appropriate to demean my life choices to elevate your own?

>small, angry crowd without kids that has temper tantrums any time anyone says something like this<

There's 13 million childfree adults in the USA, as of the last census. We're not a "small, angry crowd". We're tired of having OUR life choices demeaned and dismissed, while we're paying for yours via our tax dollars.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. No, I didn't ever say you made them. And point out where I've dismissed or demeaned anyone's life

choices.

I'll wait. Find a link. Go ahead. Find it.

Show me, again, where I've (and I quote) "demeaned and dismissed" anyone's life choices.



...


....



....

Now, as for the rest of your rant: The "small angry crowd" I'm talking about is NOT everyone who doesn't have kids; (can you draw a linear connection between anything I've actually written and that conclusion???) instead, it's a group on DU -and no, I never said you were one of them- who enjoy hectoring and otherwise lecturing people who DO have or want kids (which should be as unacceptable as doing it to people for NOT wanting them, no?) and who like to spit out nastiness about "breeders" and "brats" and all sorts of shit, all the while endlessly second guessing the (selfish, apparently :eyes:) reasons anyone would have kids- like, we all want "mini mes".

[Arkansas Granny]

91. Congratulations! There will be times when you doubt your sanity for deciding

to have a child, but for the most part, it's a very rewarding experience.

I have total respect for people who decide not to have children, for whatever reason, but I have never regretted being a parent and being a grandparent is even better. All the fun with less responsibility.

[magdalena]

96. Thanks for all the congrats!

I actually thought I never wanted to have a kids for most of my adult life (too selfish with my time, money, etc.) and totally respect those who choose to remain childless. However, now that I'm a bit older things in my life just felt right and suddenly I wanted children. Looking forward to being a mommy :D.

[Arugula Latte]

100. I think you'll find it's almost a relief to care more about someone else.

You stop obsessing over yourself and start obsessing over your baby. :)

[LuckyTheDog]

69. Well, I must be an IDIOT!

After several years of trying to have a child and not having any luck, my wife and I adopted a then five-month-old baby. He's now 9 years old and I am not giving him back!

[seabeyond]

71. ahhhhh

yea

i hear ya

[Liberal_in_LA]

95. good for you! :-)

[cbdo2007]

72. I've found having a kid to be FAR MORE rewarding than I even thought it would be.

Best financial decision (or any other kind decision) of my life, and this coming from someone who spent $20,000 to have a kid through IVF.

In fact, wife and I thought it was such a good investment we'll probably spend another $15,000 to do it again later this year. :)

[Warren DeMontague]

77. +1,000,000

Congratulations, by the way.

[cbdo2007]

82. Thanks!

[Lyric]

73. If not for foolish, delusional people having kids, nobody would be here today to preach to us all

about how foolish and delusional it is to have kids.

I'm not sure if that's technically ironic, but it's close enough for practical purposes.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Uh Huh. What's the "scientific" distinction between "perceived" and "actual" happiness?

This study is total nonsense, but clearly someone has decided they can sell magazines by peddling angst to middle Merka.

[Edweird]

79. I'm not really 'Dad' material. I recognize this and adjust my behavior accordingly.

One of my rock star buddies, however, hasn't figured this out and is having his life ruined by a woman that took his son and moved back to Alaska. He's not 'Dad material' either - in fact most of my friends aren't - but he didn't take care of business when he needed to. He now has a vasectomy. Lesson - eventually - learned.

[Zax2me]

80. More BS from narcissistic adults

Sometimes I wish these people had parents that thought the way they did - before conceiving them.

[killbotfactory]

85. I love my kid, wouldn't replace her for the world, but...

This article largely rings true. Almost immediately I had to say goodbye to a good nights sleep, free time, basic sanitary considerations (young kids don't understand the idea of germs, for instance), and financial security.

I think a lot of people keep quiet about, or don't want to admit to, the huge difficulties in raising a kid, and the sometimes crippling emotional stress it subjects you to. Maybe because our society likes to glamorize parenthood and people feel shame if they don't always live up to that ideal.

[GliderGuider]

88. I wouldn't trade my child-free status for anything, but I'm still delusional.

I knew from the outset that I didn't want kids, and 60 years on I know I made the right choice. But I'm quite sure that staying child-free didn't make me any less miserable in life or make my relationships any stronger. I've been through bouts of depression over the years, including a 5-year misery that qualifies as a genuine Dark Night of the Soul. And while I'm utterly besotted with my life partner, I wasn't quite as happy with the 4 that preceded her... One thing I'll say in favour of being child-free is that it let me work through my shit on my own schedule, and gave me the freedom to live my life the way I wanted. I'm now very happy with the outcome.

On the other hand, one thing that having kids can do is make you grow the fuck up. Most parents I know (including two of those previous partners) show evidence of a type of maturity I don't share. But on the third hand, I like who I've become, and I'm damn sure that being forcibly matured by the demands of parenting would have turned me into someone else.

So, ultimately, to each their own. I won't recommend that someone not have kids so long as they keep their hands off my choices too.

[JustAnotherGen]

92. Delusional is a strong word

Now I'm not married and don't have kids. Full disclosure okay?

I think the word 'delusional' is why I'm reading 'defensive' responses. That's a strong word. A dismissive word.

That said - for those who have children?

Welcome to the world of the single and childless. Past the age of 25 and not married and no kids there's an 'unwritten code in America' that you are a loser, incapable of love, commitment-phobe, 'selfish' (another strong and dismissive word), and amongst the very narrow minded - it's assumed you are gay - as if that's a bad thing! :lmao:

I think folks should live and let live and not question the choices of others. Nor get so upset/defensive when someone offers some insight into those who MAY be struggling with these choices.

I don't doubt that there are some very unhappy people with children - but my attitude is suck it up buttercup. You chose this. Deal.

[buddysmellgood]

93. Well no shit. What's the point?

[cbdo2007]

98. According to this article, buying anything that doesn't make you money or isn't a necessity...

to survive is foolish.

[Number23]

99. Just as I was reading this, my almost year old daughter crawled up to me

Bared her two teeth in some semblance of a baby smile and giggled like a mad thing when I scooped her up into my arms and kissed her all over her neck.

There may be some truth to this "study" but it's blanketed by a veritable avalanche of BS.

[seabeyond]

104. yes.... but how much money did you get from it. rollin eyes

loved your shared just now experience. so sweeeet. even though you didnt earn a penny

[Number23]

106. Exactly. Who knew you could actually enjoy and love things that DON'T MAKE YOU MONEY!!one!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:toast:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

101. wow...I have three and can totally see that this research

is totally grounded in the science of bullshit. If you suck at raising kids and controlling your emotions and are batted about by your kids, then I guess I can see this. But, I guess I am just delusional. Great way to disregard anything positive...just label it as delusion...

Crock...

sP

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Seriously. I want to know what the difference is between "imagined" and "actual" happiness.

Apparently, it's not just there, it's quantifiable.

A "scientist" said so! :rofl:

[walldude]

102. First of all... an "investment"?

Is that what they are calling kids these days a "poor investment"? And that it makes parents delusional?

Where are these delusional parents who talk about the "joys of parenthood"? I don't see them. When someone asks if I have kids my reply is always "Yeah, you want em'?" Most parents I know are just like me. The only exceptions are the "family values pro-life" morons. And they aren't too stable to begin with.

Kids are a huge fucking pain in the ass responsibility, they are chaotic, wound up, all over the place and impossible to pin down. Some of us thrive on that shit. If you don't don't have kids.
Depends on what you want out of life, you want the merry go round? Don't have kids. You want the rollercoaster, load up.


The only people in the grip of a "giant illusion".are the ones who would call a kid an "investment". Anyone who worships money so much that human life becomes an "investment" is living a life of lies and illusion.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

107. This person thinks money is more important than children.

So? My ex husband said "we couldn't afford a child". That was bullshit. He had a good job and insurance. He saw everything in terms of dollar bills.

I'm glad I had my baby girl. I didn't want my family to die off and my sister did not have any children. And he punished meo for having a beautiful, healthy child by making me pay him child support when he got custody of the child.


Some people just don't understand when they got it good. I told him that millions of couples would give everything they owned to have a healthy child.

Don't like kids? Then don't have any.