So at work this guy I know says to me...

[SHRED]

..., in front of about 5 other dudes, in a smartass tone; "You need to tell Obama that we need to drill here now!".

A little background, this guy loves listening to RW talk radio and views me as well, "one of them thar libruls".
I am 100% sure that he had just got through with listening to one of those radio pigs drone on and on how that liberal Obama is stifling those poor oil companies with his over regulation along with the "environazis".
He believes in the "Drill here, drill now, pay less" slogan.

So in front of everybody I reply very calmly, "What makes you think oil corporations are loyal to this country?".
"The oil corporations are multi-national and it is a world oil market".
"Every drop they extract enters into that market".
"Their is no 'our' oil".

You could have heard a pin drop.
Everyone was having an "ah ha" moment.
No one said anything.
And that was that.


Man that felt good.
When indisputable raw truth smacks down smart-ass, lie-based rhetoric it is a beautiful moment.
And the best part is I didn't raise my voice. I just said it matter-of-fact like.


Sweet.
Thought I'd share.



:grouphug:

[krispos42]

1. ZING!

:rofl:

[underseasurveyor]

2. Bravo to you

and NEENER NEENER NEENER to those guys at your work.
:toast:

Certainly one I'll add to my quiver of come-backs.

[proud patriot]

3. Very good

I might just borrow a bit for a debate I'm having

[SHRED]

9. Take it all...

...I wish it was common knowledge!!!


---

[proud patriot]

115. thanks

:patriot:

[Shagbark Hickory]

4. Or you could have just told them the he is drilling here, drilling now, drillin' baby.

The moratorium on deepwater drilling expired or is about to expire too.

[SHRED]

6. That would have been too much...

...for him to grasp.
He isn't that up to date.

Remember, he gets his info from Faux Noise and RW radio talk.

[Shagbark Hickory]

26. Telling him that we're drilling despite campaign promisesto the contrary is more complicated than

explaining the commodities market?

Ok. I guess you're pretty good at explaining things.

[truth2power]

46. Both are important. n/t

[chervilant]

86. Here's one

that I came up with that you can feel free to use. Tell him:

"Thank you for reminding me that I could wade through the depths of your intellect without getting the tops of my toes wet."

That ought to be simple enough for him to understand.

[lunasun]

125. and they will be back to being stupid puppets tomorrow A.M.

[peacetalksforall]

5. Good job.

[handmade34]

7. good job!

if anybody needs further info... to continue the argument

http://www.alternet.org/environment/93619/if_we_drill_in_the_u.s.,_we_don't_get_the_oil/

[madmax]

15. Thank you nt

[madmax]

8. Stunning! I absolutely love these post.

You handled that brilliantly. :hug: :toast: :fistbump: :yourock:

[AC_Mem]

10. Awesome

They just don't know how to act when they have truth put in front of their faces, do they.

Fox lies and makes people stupid.

;)
Annette

[Enthusiast]

30. "Fox lies and makes people stupid."

Exactly!

Welcome to the DU, Annette!

[AC_Mem]

73. Thank you!

I'm working hard to get to my 1,000th post - its like climbing Mt. Everest!

:)
Annette

[Pharaoh]

11. My problem is

I usually only think of those zingers after the moment has passed.

Good Job!

[SHRED]

14. yeah me too...;)

[Arugula Latte]

62. That's the old "l'esprit d'escalier"

The French have a phrase, "l'esprit d'escalier." Literally, it translates to "the spirit of the staircase," but what it actually means is "the things you think of to say after it’s already too late and you’re on your way out."

I have that problem, too. :)

[PDJane]

12. Woohoo! I love those conversations............

:toast:

[DaisyDeedles]

13. Thank you.

I try to explain this to people all the time. That little bit of oil we could drill here amounts to a thimblefull on the world market. Unless these teabaggers are willing to consider *gasp* nationalizing our oil industry!

[Enthusiast]

31. I could go for a whole

bunch of nationalizing about now! Welcome to the DU!

[MedicalAdmin]

65. Even if we did nationalize.

There aren't nearly enough native reserves. We need to be many factors of magnitude more efficient. Which ain't gonna happen. The only solution that I see is the eventual demise of Empire America. I hope what is left is a kinder, gentler, saner place.

[Canuckistanian]

108. Welcome to DU

You're exactly right.

[orleans]

16. that is what these assholes don't fucking get

and i heard the same shit on the news radio tonight--an illinois repuke spewing that drill here/now crap.

and all these dumbass fucking repukes buy into it. what a bunch of stupid shit morans!

god--sick to death of them all.

[Geoffrey_Lebowski]

17. Nice ...

I've said practically the exact same thing to RW'ers numerous times on Facebook over the past two weeks.

Unless we nationalize the Oil Industry, there is no 'our oil'.

So far nobody has really tried to 'come back' on this point ... at least not remotely cogently.

[Enthusiast]

33. Keep up the good fight!

Welcome to the DU!

[CLANG]

51. How do you nationalize a multi-national that can move whereever they want?

[coalition_unwilling]

56. Um, you expropriate any assets (financial and physical) residing

in the U.S.??

Not saying we should necessarily, although I am a Dem Socialist, but that's how you 'nationalize' a given corporation's assets.

See Fidel Castro, Cuba, ca. 1960
See Hugo Chavez, Venezuela, ca. 2000

[MedicalAdmin]

67. Also - sieze the accounts and start international proceedings

to seize the rest. In short, make the company and it's officers and board members international fugitives. But yah - pull up with a tank or two and just take control of the assets. Keep in mind most of what oil companies are in a tangible sense are mineral leases of land and refineries, neither of which can be packed up and moved.

Yes, there is also personel but most workers and management aren't going anywhere and those that do can be replaced pretty easily.

[CLANG]

93. Don't think that would work with a multi-national. You'd be sued silly.

[coalition_unwilling]

96. Well, as John Locke and others have argued, possession is

9/10 of the law. If Congress passes a law expropriating the assets of (name your favorite petrochemical multinational) and the President signs it and Supreme Court upholds its Constitutionality, I'd say the asset holders of said petrochemical multinational will be taking a haircut.

See Cuba, ca. 1959-60.(There it was the sugar and casino companies that took a haircut and rightfully so, imho.)

[CLANG]

121. Well, in today's world, I don't think that's applicable.

[W_HAMILTON]

133. Eminent domain n/t

n/t

[CLANG]

134. China might have a problem with that.

[JDPriestly]

94. Just end their special tax cuts. Just make them pay the taxes

they would owe if they hadn't bribed our Congress. That would mean plenty of money for schools, health care, etc.

And since the oil and gas produced in the US and on our shores simply goes into gas tanks all over the world, why should we give tax breaks to oil companies? It makes no sense, no sense at all.

[AlbertCat]

70. How do you nationalize a multi-national that can move whereever they want?

Private drilling rigs for your own back yard, of course.

The refinery kit costs extra.

[socialist_n_TN]

78. You can nationalize and expropriate their physical plants.........

and run them as state owned businesses.

[ErikJ]

109. Like all other countries?

But what about American exceptionalism?

[socialist_n_TN]

126. Well, this strategy would be exceptional for America....

:)

[TheBigotBasher]

114. Even if US oil went under state ownership

it would be required to seek best value for the taxpayer, which therefore means trading at commodity price levels. That would mean completely undermining every service station supplier in the US, unless they became State owned as well.

Republicans would also have to opt out of the free market entirely to have an impact on World oil prices.

[Arctic Dave]

18. If he keeps up with his nonsense, ask him why the oil Corps

aren't drilling what they have already?

Apparently he knows more then the rest of us in the oilfield.

[mahina]

19. Great! I had a similar convo.

When I said it's not our oil any more once they extract it, they had the same quiet moment of ...oh!

I didn't push it to the point of asking if it hurt to be lied to like that.

One day they will figure out they are being bullshi**ed 24-7 on the right wing media. Hope it's not too late!

[The Doctor.]

20. Ignorance is easy until it encounters reality.

We have to keep the truth up.

[SHRED]

21. no doubt

[yodermon]

22. right.. they're arguing for the Nationalization of our oil companies.

:rofl:

can you imagine the exploding heads if any Democrat suggested such a thing?

[Enthusiast]

34. Yeah, they might be called communists.

:rofl:

[VoteProgressive]

23. +1

[raccoon]

24. Good for you! nt

[Dappleganger]

25. Beautiful!

[Ganja Ninja]

27. The only problem is that you can enlighten people like him and 5 minutes later ...

he will have dismissed it and returned to his original state of comfortable ignorance.

[socialist_n_TN]

37. That's why you're not arguing to convince him.........

You're arguing for those OTHER 5 co-workers who are interested in hearing the ALTERNATE viewpoint. I would BET that most of those OTHER co-workers will remember that next time somebody starts mouthing off this RW talking point.

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. +1

[whathehell]

28. Good going....n/t

[Enthusiast]

29. K&R!

Way to go! Great answer!

[TBF]

32. "You need to tell Obama" - lol like everyone who voted for him is on his speed dial or something.

Yeah, I'll call him this morning for ya Bubba.

[Pacifist Patriot]

43. That was the part I found delightfully charming.

[TicketyBoo]

103. That's what I thought, too.

If somebody told me to "tell Obama" anything, I'd tell them, "tell him yourself."

[DirkGently]

35. Sometimes I think RWer's say the things they do to see if they "work" in the real world.

[unblock]

36. exactly. this is why LAUGHING at them is so important.

far more effective than facts and logic. they've been trained to dismiss facts and logic, but they can't tolerate embarassment.

[Pacifist Patriot]

42. I used to be graceful and diplomatic.

Now I just laugh my ass off and usually sputter something like, "Oh no, tell me you aren't falling for that infotainment and propaganda being fobbed off on the clueless as news. You're having me on, right?" And then walk away to go puke.

[unblock]

44. bingo! THEY certainly aren't remotely being graceful and diplomatic!

there's something to be said, at times, for taking the high road.
but there's also something to be said for fighting back.

[wizstars]

117. I have a devastating line that I actually learned from Poppy Bush:

"Let me help you understand...."

(A delicious irony there!)

[socialist_n_TN]

54. A LOT of times laughing in their face is my NATURAL.......

reaction. I just can't help it because I tend to laugh at willful ignorance. So yes, this would be a tactic also along WITH pithy talking points. Hopefully condense the truth down to one or two sentences.

[jhrobbins]

123. This is why John Stewart is so lethal.

[DirkGently]

135. Because RWerism is SERIOUS BIDNESS! 8)

[bongbong]

38. Comments

I see several comments here about borrowing the oil drilling Talking Point - a true one as opposed to repig talking point lies. What we need is a website or something that has a list of LTTTP. What is LTTTP? It's like HTTP, but it means Liberal Thus True Talking Points. :-)

I will look around and see what I can find.

[LibDemAlways]

39. On an exceptionally cold day in Southern Cal I had a rightwinger

co-worker tell me, "You see, Global warming is all lies." This guy listened to Rush all morning and Hannity all afternoon. His brain was basically gone, which is what I suspect has happened to the person you work with. Those assholes on the radio don't believe half the shit they spew, but the gullible listeners take it as gospel.

[socialist_n_TN]

55. Weather is NOT climate. And climate change will CAUSE.......

unusual weather. There. 2 sentences.

[coalition_unwilling]

57. With some of the more crazy, any science that is post-16th century

is dismissed as a plot by Satan to deceive us.

To wit, radio-carbon dating was a ruse invented by Satan to test our faith.

[LibDemAlways]

63. Well put. However, a moron who takes a look at the weather

outside and passes judgment on a global climate issue is not savvy enough to understand the difference.

[socialist_n_TN]

64. Probably true, BUT you can even break THAT down....

into a couple of sentences. Ignorant: "Climate/weather, it's all the same!" Response: "If it lasts a day, week, month, season or year, it's weather. If it lasts a century, it's climate."

[cate94]

40. Perfect come back.

I wish I had that talent.

Good job!!!

[loudsue]

45. Thank you so much for this thread, SHRED:

I got an e-mail about this very topic from family members last week, and my heart has been breaking about it. People in my family I loved and had respect for are suddenly sending around rightwing talking points. This is the topic. :cry: I can't take it anymore. US Pravda is driving me nuts. Literally. Nuts.

[SHRED]

132. hang in there

I know how you feel!

This world is a crazy place.

[TuxedoKat]

47. I love hearing stories like this

you really "shredded" his argument!

[JuniperLea]

48. Thanks for this!

I just started a similar email conversation with a TeaBagger cousin who claims that the extraordinarily snowy conditions in the midwest and the east are proof positive that there is no global warming and Al Gore needs to wake up.

I'm just trying to console myself with thoughts like... every gene pool has a little piss, right?

[intaglio]

87. My partner says such people are from the shallow end

... and just maybe you need more chlorine.

[JuniperLea]

88. Hahaha! Awesome!

Thanks for this!!

[Populist_Prole]

49. I'm surprised he didn't abruptly switch gears and just say "Well that's Capitalism"

And hope you didn't notice the original illogical and defeated point he tried to make.

That's the way uneducated conservative tools are. They just whip out another talking point from their kit bags, and keep going ( as they're shot down ) until they find one you might agree with.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

50. What you said needs to be put on a bumper sticker

I know, its long but I think it might work.

[Tumbulu]

52. Wow!!!! I never have been able to speak clearly when

people have bombarded me with that sort of hate speech. I will try to memorize your line to have it handy!

[dotymed]

53. Speculators are the reason for our gas prices.

Libyan oil has NO impact on our fuel supply. In fact, OPEC increased their oil production so that those affected by Libyan supplies, would NOT be affected. Of course, OUR speculators saw the golden opportunity: FEAR, to greatly increase the oil prices.
It sure guarantees them continued record profits while we subsidize the oil companies and charge them no income taxes.
Please, lets finally take to the streets.............

[SlimJimmy]

84. We don't need to take to the streets. The government needs to take oil and food

out of the speculation market. Let supply and demand determine the price, not a very small percentage of guys with laptops trying to bet for or against what the cost of crude might be a month from now.

[SalviaBlue]

58. Great reply!!

What do these people think: the Guvment is going to drill. Wouldn't that be Socialist/Communist/Maoist/Marxist? Oh wait, I forgot, they don't think.

[Uncle Joe]

59. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, SHRED.:thumbsup:

[azureblue]

60. This always makes their heads spin

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3618662

ask them why the oil companies export US produced oil?

and more facts

http://mediamatters.org/research/201103070040

[BobbyBoring]

61. It just shows how ignorant these people are

The only things they "know" come from Rush and Faux.

About all of "Our" oil goes to CA BTW~

[jwirr]

66. That was great. At least you made them think.

[Myrina]

68. Yep, we need more American oil ...

... it comes out of the ground red, white and blue and only works in Ford or GM vehicles ...

:spank:

[AlbertCat]

69. "What makes you think oil corporations are loyal to this country?".

C'mon! Of course BRITISH Petroleum is a good American company!

[RoccoR5955]

71. Give them a good zing when you can... Chances are his head hurt

too much to answer you. Don't do it too much, or his head will explode, then you'll have a mess on your hands, both literally and figuratively.

[cui bono]

72. Heard about this post on Thom Hartmann about 50 minutes ago!

:)

[colorado_ufo]

74. Ooooh - that made me feel all tingly!

Well done!!!

:toast:

[madinmaryland]

75. I had a similar situation yesterday...

A guy I was talking to in the car tried to tell me we had enough oil in Alaska and North Dakota were larger than the reserves in the Middle East. I explained to him that we at most one-tenth the oil that the ME has and the "oil" in North Dakata, which is estimated at 4 billion barrels is in shale, very hard and expensive to extract, and still is a drop in the bucket compared to our needs and what the ME has.

You could see the learning moment happen.

[louis-t]

76. Right to the point. For further smackdown, ask how many wells in the Gulf

are 'capped'. What were they doing to the BP well that blew up? They had just 'capped' it. Do you know how many wells in the Gulf are capped? There are hundreds of wells in the Gulf already. Some are pumping oil, some are capped. Why are they capped? Why can't they just start pumping oil out of all the capped wells?

[opihimoimoi]

77. I'm on the 209....:o)

[nilram]

79. awesome! kudos to you!

[femrap]

80. K and R...thx for

sharing. I was just reading about the Seven Sisters....which is now really Four. Hell, we're just about back to the point of the Monopoly busting days Rockefeller's Standard Oil.

Oil boyz make me :puke:

[Hannah Bell]

81. +100. and so true, not only for oil companies. truth is, none of those big

american corps are "ours".

[annabanana]

82. One of my ABSOLUTE fave rebuttals.. because it's easy to understand

and irrefutable.

[ClassWarrior]

83. Thom Hartman just cited this thread on his show!

I know, I know, he did it this morning. My station delays him by three hours and runs Ed live.

NGU.

[Cali_Democrat]

85. That's a great point you made

Well done.

[Courtesy Flush]

89. Got a reference we can cite?

I don't want to say it if I can't back it up.

[tavalon]

112. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars

That said, it is no longer pithy, cute and easy to explain.

The three things these do have in common are oil.

[WinkyDink]

90. Gimme five!

[patrick t. cakes]

91. thing of beauty....n/t

[TxVietVet]

92. I did the same thing to the dingbat conservanazi bitch downstairs.

Stupid bitch thought oil comes out of ground, goes into truck and presto-chango, is delivered as gasoline at the nearest station.

Another big lie they passed around for a while was that no gasoline refineries had been built in over 27 years (this comment was about 10 years ago). I told one conservanazi wingnut that he better check his source. I had left Texas after working on a gasoline plant about 5 years ealier. I told him there was no such thing as a gasoline refinery. He called me a liar. I told him that he obviously was getting bad information and since he had clue how a refinery worked, he was being played for a fool. He says, the EPA won't let them build that's why. The multinational oil companies stopped producing gasoline back in the 80s because at that time, the Middle Eastern oil producers were selling them cheap gasoline and they couldn't produce it for that price in this country. That's why they didn't make gasoline plants. I finally told him I left Texas after working on a Mobil Refinery gasoline plant.

They ain't got a f*ckin' clue. They just pass on the propaganda because they are either too lazy or too stupid to produce facts.

[Corruption Winz]

95. On the one hand...

I doubt he's your friend, so this is a funny one. However, if you two are friends, this might be a little awkward. Nonetheless, nice going.

[aquart]

97. Glad you mentioned the part about loyalty.

[Plucketeer]

98. That WAS great, and I..

educate dolts like that - one by one. I told one neighbor the other day.... You think the oil companies are dying to "come to our rescue"? There's not one give-a-shit about serving America in the equation. Those supposedly "patriotic" bands of thieves are LOVING this "crisis"! LOVING that they can sell oil for $100+ a barrel! IF they could pump MORE from beneath US soil, they would not give one PENNY of a price break to their "fellow Americans" They are SUCH idiots! And WE'RE all such idiots for letting our - heh - "representatives" keep on SUBSIDIZING the most profitable industry in the history of industries!
I'd bet if I went door-to-door in this blood red district of California, I wouldn't be able to get ONE PERSON who would say such subsidies are a great or even necessary thing! Yet our reps think so. :grr:

[wizstars]

118. They drill for PROFIT, not PATRIOTISM!

(that might be a bumper sticker.....)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

99. Well done!

:applause:

[rtassi]

100. "Well met"

[blaze]

101. Perfect response

<trying to memorize for future use>

:hi:

Thanks!

[Avant Guardian]

102. I had a similar work conversation, I told him it's auctioned off on the world market...

...to the highest bidder, usually China.

My coworker was equally silent afterwards.

[obxhead]

104. Even Obama parrots that "oil independence" line too though.

I've even seen some here parrot the line in support of drill baby drill.

Good for you though on your proper and truthful burn.

[ErikJ]

105. NATIONALIZE, BABY NATIONALIZE!

When they say "Drill Baby Drill" ask them; "Since that oil would go onto the world market anyway and not make a bit of difference in lowering the price, then do you mean we should NATIONALIZE our oil and distribute the profits to us?

[Canuckistanian]

106. That's why oil companies arent so keen to go into ANWR

An oil company exec once said "We'll probably just ship to oil to Asia" if they got the rights to drill there.

There's NO legal reason why they'd HAVE to sell that oil to America - just like any other well they have anywhere in the world.

Whoever has the cash, gets the oil.

[spanone]

107. the truth is a mofo....

[julian09]

122. "speculators" need bigger stake in oil futures

right now they only have 10% stake in futures; if they had a 50% or 60% stake in that gamble, they would lose more money,if they are wrong.
Check the ED Show 10pm MSNBC all this week for more on the oil speculation.

[eleny]

110. Knowing the facts are so much of the battle to educate - Well done!

[bertman]

111. SWEEEEETTT!!!! Rec. nt

[tallahasseedem]

113. Thom Hartmann...

mentioned this story on his show today! Bravo! :)

[SHRED]

120. where can I get a copy?

[Beartracks]

116. If they want "our" oil, shouldnt the oil corps be nationalized?

Just asking.

-----------------------

[WillyT]

119. Sublime...

:applause::applause::applause:

:yourock:

:hi:

:kick:

[Generic Brad]

124. Not to mention that drilling where there is no oil is a waste of time

But the obvious is usually overlooked by the vapid.

[SammyWinstonJack]

127. Well that 'ah ha' moment disappears when the mouth breathers engage the rw hate

spewers again... but good job :thumbsup:

[Brigid]

128. What can I say but . . .

:yourock:

[MadMaddie]

129. You might want to bring up these companies are paying

minimal or no taxes to the U.S for the record profits.

[SHRED]

130. I never expected this response...

:wow:


You all are so nice.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:


----

[Liberal_in_LA]

131. nice. great thread title also. hee!