Gitmo: The reporting is calling it a "flip flop".. This is clearly having

[annabanana]

it's intended effect of fracturing the left. It was LIEBERMAN and the BLUE DOGS in the Senate that made closure impossible during the first 2 years. It is the HOUSE that is making it impossible now.

These obstructions are being helped with great heaping shovelfuls of propaganda from CorpoMedia©.

[mmonk]

1. What was the excuse when we had the House?

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Joe Lieberman HAPPILY played the part of the spoiler

This was especially true during the healthcare debate. It was prearranged BETWEEN Lieberman and the White House that ol' Joe would step in at the last minute to kill anything resembling a public option. That way Obama could satisfy the promises he made to Big Pharma and Big Insurance while still giving pretty speeches about how hard he tried and how we should not let the pursuit of perfection kill the possible. Lieberman, after the last election, became a "gun for hire" for any interest willing to pay him or promise him future riches.

I think the Dems could have done much more to get what was promised during the campaign, but that would have pissed off the real power players in our politics. In some respects, it was far easier for many Dems to be in the minority because they could make wonderful speeches about progressive values and policies in their districts while still serving the corporate interests that fund their elections. Being in the minority always allowed them to blame lack of progress solely on the Republicans. The best of both worlds for some in Congress.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

5. Link? Proof?

:shrug:

I have little doubt that Lieberman was bought (or flipped somehow on health care because he previously supported a PO and an expansion of Medicare) but I have difficulty believing that everything that has transpired was simply "kubuki theater". In some instances, perhaps many, I believe that President Obama's efforts have been consistent with his campaign promises yet he has been constrained by political difficulties he has yet to figure out how to overcome. I do not honestly believe that he was prepared for the level of pushback he's gotten from conservadems and other members of his own party.

[Bandit]

16. Do you think he will EVER be prepared for Republicans?

He seems to follow the path of least resistance and no stand on principles..

[bvar22]

20. Yep.

Joe Lieberman took one for the DLC team.
He had nothing to lose.

The whole
"We don't have the votes" :cry:
was weak, pathetic, and untrue.

[WatsonT]

6. Pretend it never happened and blame the media.

[Pirate Smile]

7. Congress blocked it. That is just reality. Yes, the Democratic Congress blocked it from closing.

Geez, people were around for the last two years, right? This isn't ancient history.

Democrats in Senate Block Money to Close Guantánamo

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/us/politics/20detain.html

Senate blocks transfer of Gitmo detainees

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826649/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

House acts to block closing of Gitmo
In blow to Obama, ban on detainee-transfer funds part of spending bill

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/8/congress-deals-death-blow-gitmo-closure/

House Panel Deals Gitmo Closure a Major Setback

http://washingtonindependent.com/85355/house-panel-deals-gitmo-closure-a-major-setback

Smog Alert: Hot Air in Congress Could Block Gitmo's Closing

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/06/01/872012/-Smog-Alert:-Hot-Air-in-Congress-Could-Block-Gitmos-Closing

[mmonk]

14. The question comes into play about presidential power then.

The executive branch decided unilaterally to violate domestic and international law but the Congress decides whether those violations can continue?

[ClassWarrior]

2. Human beings will continue to be tortured and held for no reason...

...but you're concerned about "fracturing the left??!" Sorry, the true left is against torture and false imprisonment.

But thank you for your concern.

NGU.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Winner, winner. Chicken dinner.

[ClassWarrior]

13. And we're united. Despite the memes that people like to float.

:fistbump:

NGU.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. I refuse to outsource my ethics for political expediency...

...anymore.


:fistbump:

[jaxx]

18. We are near the 69th anniversary of executive order 9066

"United States Executive Order 9066 was a United States presidential executive order signed and issued during World War II by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942 authorizing the Secretary of War to prescribe certain areas as military zones. Eventually, EO 9066 cleared the way for the relocation of Japanese Americans to internment camps.

The order authorized the Secretary of War and U.S. armed forces commanders to declare areas of the United States as military areas "from which any or all persons may be excluded," although it did not name any nationality or ethnic group. It was eventually applied to one-third of the land area of the U.S. (mostly in the West) and was used against those with "Foreign Enemy Ancestry" — Japanese.

<..> Japanese Americans were by far the most widely affected group, as all persons with Japanese ancestry were removed from the West Coast and southern Arizona. As then California Attorney General Earl Warren put it, "When we are dealing with the Caucasian race we have methods that will test the loyalty of them. But when we deal with the Japanese, we are on an entirely different field."<1> In Hawaii, where there were 140,000 Americans of Japanese Ancestry (constituting 37% of the population), only selected individuals of heightened perceived risk were interned.

Americans of Italian and German ancestry were also targeted by these restrictions, including internment. 11,000 people of German ancestry were interned, as were 3,000 people of Italian ancestry, along with some Jewish refugees. The Jewish refugees who were interned came from Germany, and the U.S. government didn't differentiate between ethnic Jews and ethnic Germans (jewish was defined as religious practice). Some of the internees of European descent were interned only briefly, and others were held for several years beyond the end of the war. Like the Japanese internees, these smaller groups had American-born citizens in their numbers, especially among the children. A few members of ethnicities of other Axis countries were interned, but exact numbers are unknown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

[Proud Liberal Dem]

4. It's a "flip flop" born out of the obstruction of Republicans and NIMBY Dems

If he could figure out a way to move them out of Gitmo and/or give them civilian trials, I'm sure he would have already done it. Having them tried by military tribunals, while obviously not anywhere near preferable, still provides for some adjudication/review for these prisoners in the meantime. Perhaps they will help demonstrate that many inmates are either innocent and/or not the evil geniuses that the Republicans (and some Dems) seem to take them to be. :shrug:

Sidebar: When that whole debate was going on, I kept hearing that President Obama supposedly didn't have a "plan" for what to do with the Gitmo prisoners but wasn't the whole NIMBY debate about President Obama's "plan" to move them into supermax prisons in the US? What else kind of "plan" was there supposed to have been? Supermax prisons routinely hold extremely dangerous prisoners, some perhaps more so than the kind of prisoners we have in Gitmo. Even trying KSM in civilian court wasn't initially a problem with anybody until the right-wing ginned up a bunch of fear and outrage over it- so much so that Bloomberg backtracked and began opposing it (on "security" grounds :eyes:). Our country seems to still be seriously f****d up right now in the head IMHO when it comes to muslims and terrorism (even though I thought that we had moved on somewhat from all of this irrational fear about muslims/terroism post-9/11 Guess not :eyes:).

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[rucky]

10. Did they need legislation to open Gitmo?

Why do we need a vote to close it?

Aren't their things under the DOD's authority that don't require an act of congress to accomplish?

[mmonk]

17. That's how I look at it.

And that falls under executive branch purview. But then again, I'm not into the new interpretations of checks and balances or lack thereof since 9/11.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Why "codify" it with an EO?

(If you're against it)


:shrug:

[chill_wind]

19. Vindicates Bush & Cheney and ups his tough on terrah 2012 creds. n/t