Bill Gates

[Syrinx]

I have very mixed feelings about the guy.

There's little doubt that he used illegal, and maybe more importantly, very unethical, business practices in his quest to become one of the world's richest persons.

I wonder if Microsoft has created anything new and original in computing. Except maybe that little talking paper-clip guy that everyone made fun of. Since the very beginning of MicroSoft (as it was originally named), they have stolen ideas, left and right.

From Apple and Xerox, and the little company that created DOS, and others.

And they have done their best to stifle competition. And Microsoft was headed toward breakup, under the Clinton administration, until GWB came in and saved them.

Microsoft is total asshole of a company. I admit that.

But isn't it also true, that Bill Gates has given more money to charity than any human being in the history of the world?

And I realize that some people believe that the donations to "charity" come with an agenda attached. I'm certainly open to hearing details about that.

Like I said, I've mixed feelings about Gates.

What do you think?

[Hannah Bell]

1. if you love monsanto, you'll love gates.

as that's what lots of his so-called "charity" is currently funding.

there's not anything gates funds that doesn't benefit gates and his peeps.

"charity" my ass. tax-sheltered political action arm & investment fund.

and no, he hasn't given more to his spurious charities than anyone in the history of the world.

[Syrinx]

2. I'm genuinely open-minded on this

Like I said, I know Gates built his corporation on a whole lot of lies.

What do you think the true motives of the Bill And Melinda Gates Foundation are?

[Hannah Bell]

8. pretty much the same as all the other rich people with foundations.

[Scuba]

4. Once again, Hannah has the facts. Thanks, Hannah.

[Syrinx]

9. I don't come into this discussion with any particular opinion

But then again, Hannah's post reads a lot more like opinion than facts. I'm not saying that Hannah is wrong. And she may very well be correct. But where in her post did she "have the facts?" I'm generally in agreement with Hannah Bell, politically speaking. I'm pretty much on the left side. But the post you are referring to doesn't really have any "facts."

[Hannah Bell]

10. here. do your own research.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=hannah+bell+bill+gates&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

i live in the state gates controls, he & the boeing company.

and i've been here longer than gates, as i am older than him.

[Syrinx]

12. I'm not your enemy and I'm not a defender of Gates

It seems that we are all a little bit paranoid.

And that is understandable.

I'm every bit as concerned as you by the corporate envelopment of America.

Maybe even more.

I'm not scared of saying the word "fascism."

I think that's where we are even now.

It is not approaching.

It is not encroaching.

It's where we are.

The near-total control of America by corporate forces. That is where we are.

But when I ask for backup, a link to your own previous posts is not what I'm necessarily looking for.

[Hannah Bell]

13. the point is, i've posted tons of info on gates. go look at it instead of talking about

how everything is just my opinion.

i'm not sure what you want me to "link".

it's not like somebody sat down & made a documented list of all the things that are wrong with gates "charity" so that i can handily provide *you* with a single easy link.

what i know about gates is the product of living in this state/seattle from the beginnings of his little enterprise, personal information from people who work/ed at microsoft, the charity scene in seattle, my own experience of how he's changed seattle, and hours & hours of research, sorry i don't have a nice little link for you.

i linked you to my posts on gates, which contain many links.

[Syrinx]

14. I suppose you could have summarized your opinion

And provided some supporting links. I guess that is old-fashioned.

[Hannah Bell]

15. i did summarize my opinion, along with a few cogent facts, such as the

gates foundation's extensive links with monsanto.

i linked you to my posts on the subject.

i suppose it's old fashioned to expect you might expend the energy to click on a couple if you wanted further info, or google "gates foundation" and "monsanto".

no, you just bash me.

[Syrinx]

16. no matter what else you say, I never "bashed" you

And it is dishonest to say that I did.

But I want to make up with you.

[Hannah Bell]

20. the tone is clear: "I guess that is old-fashioned."

whatever.

[MedicalAdmin]

6. The final question on whether or not he has "given" his money "away" is this...

Does he still control it? And the answer is yes. He has tax sheltered it. And while "on the books" it isn't "his" money, he still controls every dime, so in reality how is it not his?

Like any other billionaire crook he should be taxes into oblivion.

[VoteProgressive]

19. Gates is not evil and gates is not perfect. Either extreme is out of line.

[Anakin Skywalker]

3. He is Shit. What's with Billionaires and Ugly Haircuts?

[liberal N proud]

5. Who cares

We need to stop idolizing the rich regardless of how charitable they are. They grab with one hand and trickle it out with the other.

The world is not a better place because of him who cares.

[Syrinx]

7. I think I was clear that I don't idolize him

I called him a corrupt, unethical businessman.

I was only asking for opinions on whether his charity work rescues his reputation, or not.

Guess I'll jot you down for "no." :)

[customerserviceguy]

11. While the computer revolution has a checkered past indeed

and we know that Gates (and others) resold that which they might have obtained by questionable means, the fact is, we have a revolution on our hands that was just as important as the agricultural and industrial revolutions were in their impact on human history. Gates is just a well-known example of someone who took things from the theoretical, or the prototype stage, and mass-marketed them to the masses of humanity.

The average person has more computing power available today than the Apollo astronauts landing on the moon did, and I'm including what the ground crew at Houston and the Kennedy Space Center were backing them up with. It's more than an entertainment device, it is changing our world in ways that few can truly see while in the midst of it.

Giving Bill Gates his due for making that world come to fruition is no worse than the cult of personality around Steve Jobs/Apple. What he does with his money is his business. Whether it's given conditionally or unconditionally, the recipient is always free to refuse it.

[MadHound]

17. Gates is following in the path of the classic Gilded Age robber barons

Make a killing in some market, by hook or by crook(in Gates case, most certainly by crook). Use whatever unethical, illegal means necessary to accumulate your fortune, crush countless thousands and millions in your quest for money. Then use that money to become one of the ostentatious nouveau riche.

Then try to assuage your soul, and your reputation for posterity by donating a relative pittance to various charities. Carnagie did this, Mellon did this, it is a classic ploy. However Gates is putting his own evil twist on this by using his charitable donations to influence policy and practices of the areas that he donates to, ie education.

I find Gates to be neither great, grand, charitable, nor frankly that bright of a man. I think that he is an evil little shit who ripped off his competitors in order to boost his own bottom line. When he wasn't ripping off others, he has exploited child and slave labor overseas, while driving the working class in this country into the ground.

What little comfort I derive from contemplating Gates and the future is that Gates' kids will squander his money, drain the fortune dry, all the while behaving badly. If there is any justice in this world, Gates will be reborn as a native of the third world, forced as a child to slave away in one of his dismal factory/concentration camps.

[Johonny]

21. +1

[Mudoria]

22. -1

[VoteProgressive]

18. Apple stole from xerox. Common practice! Gates donates billions to charity also.

Being a billionaire tends to upsets dems.