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How did they get quorum for a vote? I haven't seen a single article explaining this

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Very_Boring_Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:35 PM
Original message
How did they get quorum for a vote? I haven't seen a single article explaining this
Edited on Wed Mar-09-11 09:35 PM by Very_Boring_Name
Only that a vote was held.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not a budget bill involving money. They don't need a quorum. n/t
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. They still needed a quorum
It's just that the quorum requirement is lower for most bills.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The clear point is that they did not need a single Democratic senator.
I think that is the question.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I think the point of the question was that they did not need one of the Democrats to get 20. n/t
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rdking647 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. its a fiscal bill no matter what they say
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession/insessiondocs/docs/JR1AB11-CA1.pdf

this is the heading of the bill

AN ACT relating to: state finances, collective bargaining for public employees,
compensation and fringe benefits of public employees, the state civil service
system, the Medical Assistance program.


what a crock of shit
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:37 PM
Original message
they stripped out the fiscal parts of the bill, making a quorum unnecessary....
eom
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. they supposedly stripped all the financial budget stuff out and just voted on the
collective bargaining thus, supposedly, no longer needing a quorum. this is questionable though and it's legality is being debated, at least on here anyway. not sure about msm since i refuse to watch them.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Sorry, but it's completely legal...
Slimy, but legal.

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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Hold that thought - there is a 24 hour rule
that was broken.

"3) Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting. "

Here's the details:


Wisconsin Open Meetings Law
Wis. Stat. § 19.81-19.98

19.84 Public notice.

(1) Public notice of all meetings of a governmental body shall be given in the following manner:

(a) As required by any other statutes; and (b) By communication from the chief presiding officer of a governmental body or such person's designee to the public, to those news media who have filed a written request for such notice, and to the official newspaper designated under ss. 985.04, 985.05 and 985.06 or, if none exists, to a news medium likely to give notice in the area.

(2) Every public notice of a meeting of a governmental body shall set forth the time, date, place and subject matter of the meeting, including that intended for consideration at any contemplated closed session, in such form as is reasonably likely to apprise members of the public and the news media thereof. The public notice of a meeting of a governmental body may provide for a period of public comment, during which the body may receive information from members of the public.

(3) Public notice of every meeting of a governmental body shall be given at least 24 hours prior to the commencement of such meeting unless for good cause such notice is impossible or impractical, in which case shorter notice may be given, but in no case may the notice be provided less than 2 hours in advance of the meeting.

(4) Separate public notice shall be given for each meeting of a governmental body at a time and date reasonably proximate to the time and date of the meeting.

(5) Departments and their subunits in any university of Wisconsin system institution or campus and a nonprofit corporation operating the Olympic ice training center under s. 42.11 (3) are exempt from the requirements of subs. (1) to (4) but shall provide meeting notice which is reasonably likely to apprise interested persons, and news media who have filed written requests for such notice.

(6) Notwithstanding the requirements of s. 19.83 and the requirements of this section, a governmental body which is a formally constituted subunit of a parent governmental body may conduct a meeting without public notice as required by this section during a lawful meeting of the parent governmental body, during a recess in such meeting or immediately after such meeting for the purpose of discussing or acting upon a matter which was the subject of that meeting of the parent governmental body. The presiding officer of the parent governmental body shall publicly announce the time, place and subject matter of the meeting of the subunit in advance at the meeting of the parent body.

(Click here for selected case law and Attorney General opinions for this section.)

19.85 Exemptions.

(1) Any meeting of a governmental body, upon motion duly made and carried, may be convened in closed session under one or more of the exemptions provided in this section. The motion shall be carried by a majority vote in such manner that the vote of each member is ascertained and recorded in the minutes. No motion to convene in closed session may be adopted unless the chief presiding officer announces to those present at the meeting at which such motion is made, the nature of the business to be considered at such closed session, and the specific exemption or exemptions under this subsection by which such closed session is claimed to be authorized. Such announcement shall become part of the record of the meeting. No business may be taken up at any closed session except that which relates to matters contained in the chief presiding officer's announcement of the closed session. A closed session may be held for any of the following purposes:

(a) Deliberating concerning a case which was the subject of any judicial or quasi-judicial trial or hearing before that governmental body.

(b) Considering dismissal, demotion, licensing or discipline of any public employe or person licensed by a board or commission or the investigation of charges against such person, or considering the grant or denial of tenure for a university faculty member, and the taking of formal action on any such matter; provided that the faculty member or other public employe or person licensed is given actual notice of any evidentiary hearing which may be held prior to final action being taken and of any meeting at which final action may be taken. The notice shall contain a statement that the person has the right to demand that the evidentiary hearing or meeting be held in open session. This paragraph and par. (f) do not apply to any such evidentiary hearing or meeting where the employe or person licensed requests that an open session be held.

(c) Considering employment, promotion, compensation or performance evaluation data of any public employe over which the governmental body has jurisdiction or exercises responsibility.

(d) Except as provided by rule promulgated under s. 304.06 (1) (em), considering specific applications of probation or parole, or considering strategy for crime detection or prevention.

(e) Deliberating or negotiating the purchasing of public properties, the investing of public funds, or conducting other specified public business, whenever competitive or bargaining reasons require a closed session.

(ee) Deliberating by the council on unemployment compensation in a meeting at which all employer members of the council or all employe members of the council are excluded.

(eg) Deliberating by the council on worker's compensation in a meeting at which all employer members of the council or all employe members of the council are excluded.

(em) Deliberating under s. 157.70 if the location of a burial site, as defined in s. 157.70 (1) (b), is a subject of the deliberation and if discussing the location in public would be likely to result in disturbance of the burial site.

(f) Considering financial, medical, social or personal histories or disciplinary data of specific persons, preliminary consideration of specific personnel problems or the investigation of charges against specific persons except where par. (b) applies which, if discussed in public, would be likely to have a substantial adverse effect upon the reputation of any person referred to in such histories or data, or involved in such problems or investigations.

(g) Conferring with legal counsel for the governmental body who is rendering oral or written advice concerning strategy to be adopted by the body with respect to litigation in which it is or is likely to become involved.

(h) Consideration of requests for confidential written advice from the ethics board under s. 19.46 (2), or from any county or municipal ethics board under s. 19.59 (5).

(i) Considering any and all matters related to acts by businesses under s. 560.15 which, if discussed in public, could adversely affect the business, its employes or former employes.

(j) Considering financial information relating to the support by a person, other than an authority, of a nonprofit corporation operating the Olympic ice training center under s. 42.11 (3), if the information is exempt from disclosure under s. 42.115 or would be so exempt were the information to be contained in a record. In this paragraph, "authority" and "record" have the meanings given under s. 19.32.

(2) No governmental body may commence a meeting, subsequently convene in closed session and thereafter reconvene again in open session within 12 hours after completion of the closed session, unless public notice of such subsequent open session was given at the same time and in the same manner as the public notice of the meeting convened prior to the closed session.

(3) Nothing in this subchapter shall be construed to authorize a governmental body to consider at a meeting in closed session the final ratification or approval of a collective bargaining agreement under subch. I, IV or V of ch. 111 which has been negotiated by such body or on its behalf.

(Click here for selected case law and Attorney General opinions for this section.)

19.86 Notice of collective bargaining negotiations.

Notwithstanding s. 19.82 (1), where notice has been given by either party to a collective bargaining agreement under subch. I, IV or V of ch. 111 to reopen such agreement at its expiration date, the employer shall give notice of such contract reopening as provided in s. 19.84 (1) (b). If the employer is not a governmental body, notice shall be given by the employer's chief officer or such person's designee. This section does not apply to a nonprofit corporation operating the Olympic ice training center under s. 42.11 (3).

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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Not quite -- violation of Wisconsin's Public Meetings Law n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not a fiscal matter.
20 Senators are not required.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. the quorum for non-fiscal matters is only 1/2
Fiscal matters (like the budget) require a higher bar (2/3, I believe).

So they separated the collective bargaining issues from the budget, so that they could vote on the now-allegedly-non-fiscal bargaining rights issue.

:grr:
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-09-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Fiscal Quorum is 3/5 /nt
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