I just heard Nader speak live.

[white_wolf]

I was blown away. He was very very good. All his points were factual, his stances strong and progressive. In any sane country this man would have been our president in 2000. I also picked up his book "The Good Fight."

[pnwmom]

1. No sane country wants to be led by a rigid narcissist,

whether from the left or the right.

[bobbolink]

4. Right on cue.

[Liquorice]

7. I agree. He's clearly a narcissist. nt

[progressoid]

16. I think there is some narcissism in most leaders.

[pnwmom]

41. I agree. But Nader went over-the-top in his insistence

that it was more important for his followers to vote for him than to prevent Bush from being voted into office. 95,000 voted for him in Florida alone, which was decided by only 500 votes.

[Puregonzo1188]

18. And yet almost all of them are.

Most people who go into politics are pretty rigid in their narcissism.

[pnwmom]

42. Someone like Clinton is narcissistic but still has empathy and still

connects with people. He also never struck me as rigid.

Nader, on the other hand, is rigid and egotistical. Not good qualities in a President.

[Bonobo]

23. That is an insane comment that has no place in a discussion of politics. nt

[pnwmom]

43. Back at you. n/t

[Big Blue Marble]

2. He is always this good.

He has gotten a very bad rap around DU. Expect to get blasted for praising his wisdom.

He is truly one of us, very clearly on our side. He always has been.

[bobbolink]

9. On our side, and gives of himself.

[hfojvt]

21. yeah, it's just a darn shame that he helped Bush become President

but hey, it's not like that turned out to be a bad thing for the country or anything?

On our side, and yet he set our side back by decades if not a fatal wound.

With allies like that, who needs enemies?

[Brickbat]

3. Nader the union buster?

I'll be darned.

[malaise]

5. I'm a big Nader supporter but

let me get my popcorn anyway :evilgrin:

[demmiblue]

6. Link, please. n/t

[white_wolf]

14. I saw him in person.

I think UT is going to have a video up tomorrow. I'll post it in this thread if they do.

[Motown_Johnny]

8. it was his delusions of grandeur that helped W. steal Florida

Fuck Ralph Nader and his enormous ego.

[demmiblue]

15. Sure

[ReggieVeggie]

24. "helped Bush steal Florida"

so much bullshit in that statement

[BzaDem]

35. Replace the word "bullshit" with "truth" in your post and you'll be correct. n/t

[ReggieVeggie]

49. nonsense

you Dems just can't deal with the fact you had a weaksauce candidate and a President at the time who couldn't stay out of trouble

[BzaDem]

51. So?

Even if what you say about Gore is 100% true (and it isn't), that doesn't even pretend to dispute anything I said. It is irrelevant.

[Bonobo]

25. Another armchair psychologist who is discussing things with no place in a political discussion. nt

[BzaDem]

37. The more these things are exposed in our political discussion, the better. n/t

[Bonobo]

39. You mean empty conjecture about a person's "ego"?

ROFLMAO.

[BzaDem]

40. I wouldn't call it a conjecture. A conjecture is something that isn't proven.

When in reality, his actions ipso facto show the statement was correct.

He wanted to enable the right wing, and did everything in his power to do so. Including exploiting the irrationality and denial of a tiny portion of the Democratic party in a close election. And he succeeded. And he would do it again, so long as he could identify the next close election in advance. It is not a "conjecture" at all.

Fortunately, most of his former supporters have realized this, which is why his support collapsed by 90% in 2004/2008. 4-8 years of reality smacking one in the face can have a tendency to do that.

[ReggieVeggie]

50. ipso facto depending on your bias

Not everyone sees things the way you do

Besides, it's Obama who's enabling the right-wing.

[Zoeisright]

36. Yep. And taking repuke money was the final straw.

Ralph is all about Ralph, all the time. Fuck him.

[readmoreoften]

10. No Nader. I'd like to see fresh new 3rd party candidates.

His time is up.

[pnwmom]

44. Thank goodness he's aging along with the rest of us. n/t

[bluestateguy]

11. Had he kept his narcissitic self-serving mouth shut in 2000

President Al Gore would have protected unions for the following 8 years.

[hlthe2b]

12. I have long agreed and continue to agree with Nader on many things....

That said, I concluded long ago that Nader had blinders on and his resultant tunnel vision would not serve us well. I do still respect him, nonetheless.

[Godhumor]

13. Shouldn't have been president in 2000, should never be president, period.

n/t

[TheWraith]

17. Ralph Nader? You mean George W. Bush's running mate?

The crazy asshole who told us there was not ONE WHIT of difference between Bush and Gore? The man who singlehandedly cost Al Gore the 2000 race, subsequently resulting in the deaths of ten thousand Americans and a million plus Iraqis?

If the man had any appreciation for what he'd done, he'd never be able to show his face in public again without apologizing personally to every American citizen.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWraith]

29. Well, you're going to get deleted for those personal attacks.

But it's kind of obvious when Nader gets 100,000 votes in Florida, votes which would have sealed the election for Gore.

[EFerrari]

34. As if BushCo would EVER have let that happen. n/t

[pnwmom]

46. It's obvious if you have common sense. n/t

[pnwmom]

45. Here are the facts: 95,000 Nader voters in a Florida race

that was decided by a difference of only 500 votes. If less than 1% of Nader voters had voted for Gore instead, Gore would have won.

Show me a SINGLE study that shows what you claim. Nader threw Florida, single-handedly. All the other factors were tiny compared to those 95,000 votes.

[white_wolf]

19. I personally didn't think he came across as all that arrogant.

At least not compared to some politicians. And as for the issue on Gore perhaps he picked a bad year to run, but I firmly agree with his ideas and I'm glad to hear a strong progressive voice.

[EFerrari]

32. Arrogant = A confident person I don't like

:)

[BzaDem]

38. Nader is indeed a "confident person I don't like" -- just like Scott Walker. Except Nader did FAR

more to enable the right wing than Scott Walker ever could.

I agree with you that arrogant is probably not the correct word to describe Nader -- at least not the only word. His ego certainly played a part, but his motive is really what's relevant. Nader wanted to enable the right wing, and he knew exactly what he was doing. His actions weren't accidental in any way. He didn't need to be arrogant -- he knew that the best way to enable the right wing was to exploit the irrationality and denial of a tiny portion of liberals, in an election decided by an even tinier margin.

[Puregonzo1188]

20. Seen speak 4, maybe 5 times. Lost track at this point. He's one of the few people who still comes to

antiwar rallies--all of the Dems seem to have stopped--and he also comes to rallies in support of Palestinian rights, which no member of Congress would be caught dead at.


He's almost always an excellent speaker.

[Ramulux]

22. He's the best

The guy is an American hero of the highest order.

[pnwmom]

48. Yeah, another hero who took money from Karl Rove

to run against the Democrats.

But he's so special that was okay. What a guy.

[gracchorumspes]

27. Good guy.

Nader is consistently progressive, a quality that should be admired by our party if we know what's best for us. I'd rather have a fighter, like a Spartacus, on my side, than a "Pyrrhic victory" any day. Pyrrhus was willing to sacrifice wave upon wave of his own men to achieve an ultimately worthless goal. If reality and practicality are the only standards that we must follow from now on, get ready to enjoy the greatest Pyrrhic victory you've ever seen. But if we dream, and fail sometimes (but still keep our heads up and eyes to the prize), maybe it was all worth it. Recced by the way, for progressivism!

[Better Believe It]

28. But, but Nader is a far right-winger who preaches bi-partisanship with Republicans and is the source

of all evil in the world.

Plus he stole the election from Leiberman/Gore in 2000.

If people had been prohibited from voting for Nader and socialist candidates for President in 2000 Joe Leiberman would have become our Vice-President in 2001 and Gore the President.

People should only be permitted to vote for Republican and Democratic party candidates because other candidates and parties can spoil things for the two approved parties.

[Bobbie Jo]

30. ...and so it begins. nt

[upi402]

31. He was right all along unfortunately

People blame him for Gore getting cheated out of his election and taking foolish Republican money - but it turns out he was 100% right.

[superduperfarleft]

33. I've seen Nader speak a couple of times. He's always interesting to hear. n/t

[bigwillq]

47. Can't lie. Good speaker.

But a lot of folks here complain that Obama is "just a good speaker". Do we want a good speaker, or someone that puts those words into actions? (I'm not saying Obama doesn't, but that seems to be the argument many use here).