White House "angrily" quashes DNC support of labor protests: says events beyond DC a "distraction"

[nashville_brook]

In case you missed it, this March 3 NYTs story about Obama's new "no drama" staff reveals a lot about why we don't see the president donning his "comfortable shoes" and "walking the picket line" with American workers fighting the corporate coups in Wisconsin, Michigan and Florida. Turns out, the DNC was out in front of the struggles with staff in place to mobilize a national network for protest, BUT THEY WERE RECALLED at the behest of Obama's new "no drama" staffers. Seems that the fight of our lives is "too much drama" for this administration -- they're busy "winning the future," so don't expect any last minute support our party at any level because the leaders of the party don't have time for "distractions."



From left, William M. Daley, the White House chief of staff; David Plouffe, the communications chief; Dan Pfeiffer, the communications director; a secret service agent and Jay Carney, the press secretary, watched during a presidential news conference at the White House.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/us/politics/04staff.html?_r=4

Similarly, the White House mostly has sought to stay out of the fray in Madison, Wis., and other state capitals where Republican governors are battling public employee unions and Democratic lawmakers over collective bargaining rights. When West Wing officials discovered that the Democratic National Committee had mobilized Mr. Obama’s national network to support the protests, they angrily reined in the staff at the party headquarters.

Administration officials said they saw the events beyond Washington as distractions from the optimistic “win the future” message that Mr. Obama introduced in his State of the Union address, in which he exhorted the country to increase spending for some programs even as it cuts others so that America can “out-innovate and out-educate” its global rivals.

[readmoreoften]

1. Rec'd up to zero. I'm seriously sick of his shit.

I've been sick of it for the past two years, but I'm completely done at this point. He's good for nothing.

[nashville_brook]

6. reading the whole story, it's a major case of buying the lede.

how completely clueless these people are.

[donheld]

98. Rec'd up to 78, I'm sick of it too

[Poboy]

518. +426 votes and continuing... -nt

[Poboy]

576. Net recommendation: +478 votes

[BBG]

607. +500

go figure.

[Poboy]

635. Net +532 votes recommending this thread. I think we have an overwhelming consensus.

[Yurovsky]

644. But the money men at the AFL-CIO et al will inevitably ...

finance BHO's re-election rather than back a more progressive, pro-labor candidate. I think it is a continual mis-reading of the past election. The reason progressives stayed home is precisely because BHO & the Democrats in Congress didn't use their power to enact the full measure of reform needed in this country to counteract 40 years of GOP abuse.

Nominate a genuine, bona fide pro-labor progessive who'll make things like single payer, card-check, gay marriage, and PEACE priorities AFTER he/she is elected, and you'll see a landslide unlike any since perhaps LBJ in 1964. We need a new New Deal or Great Society, and the only way we'll get these things is to support actual progressives. BHO & Co. have shown their true colors in the abandonment of the heroes in Madison who are fighting for their lives against an oppressive tyrant and his bible-thumping toadies.

Where is the Obama I voted for? If anyone sees him, please send him to Madison along with federal troops to restore Democracy!!!

[Poboy]

646. We needed a modern FDR, we got The Great Capitulator instead.

[defendandprotect]

655. Agree ...

except that the Obama "analysis" of 2010 was an obvious purposeful mis-diagnosis!!

Obama keeps landing on the right -- and it's not by accident!

I would suggest that 2012 is going to be our last opportunity to correct this by using

instruments of a "people's government" before everyone decides they are going to have to

take more serious steps.

Think we need to draft Sen. Bernie Sanders who is a better dem than most of our Dems!!

Bernie Sanders knows what's going on and he constantly tells us the truth.

We need two strong anti-war candidates -- Sanders and perhaps Tom Hayden, tho there are

many dems outside of the party we could consider. That's dems who are not already

pre-bribed and pre-owned by corporate money.


We also have to remember that both the Dem Party and our unions have been co-opted and

eroded by corporate/elite $$ -- and this is true in both cases over decades!!




And, btw ...

The Right Wing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[Bluebear]

673. Indeed.

[obxhead]

148. He's great for something.

Just not for the vast majority that voted for him.

[idrahaje]

431. yeah well kinda kiills one rumor

or two. that 1. he started the Madison stuff and 2. has anything to do with the recalls..

I do think he should stay out of it, but shouldn't be angrily staying out of it.

[Marnie]

569. It is one thing for him to stay out of state governing and another

to not be willing to put himself out for the people that put him in the WH.
That's just stupid.
And would seem to indicate that he is withdrawing from the hard fights and concentration on wonky political theory and algorithms and problems that can be addressed without getting a sweat ring on his collar.

He is so concerned about hurting McConnell and Boehner's feelings that he is willing to bulldoze his supporters to keep the semblance of a happy home life.

That's fine for his home life but politics is a contact sport, and he needs to stop retreating into his own end zone and giving the other team two points because trying to actually move the ball 100 years is just too sweat inducing.

When does he put he become he CIC and tell the military to end the implementation of DADT? Ok he finally got the wonky part done but DADT is still illegally in the military? He is failing the leadership test there and elsewhere.

[Name removed]

219. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fatbuckel]

280. That worked so good last time,huh?

[Lastactiongyro]

281. Whatever, last time I campaigned for him.

[Cal33]

361. We often later regret our actions based on anger.

[humanityisfree]

343. I am with you

He is not going to get my vote in 2010

[TBF]

239. Agree. I wanted him to stay away from Madison because he is just a distraction -

but this is even worse. To blatantly side with the owners is unconscionable. He's not the same as Bush - in many ways he is WORSE. He led folks to believe that he was pro-labor, as evidenced by the lines above, and here he is now ACTIVELY speaking against labor. Fuck that.

[Name removed]

415. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DirkGently]

498. THAT is a fantastic point. The story is NOT about "Obama stays clear to avoid becoming the issue."

The story is, "Angrily reigned in staff at party headquarters." We're not hearing that the administration is standing back to combat the Republican Governor's cries of "Obama's Union bosses." That ... might be worth some kind of consideration.

But, "Don't distract us with this little union kerfuffle" is the message received. And it's a poor one.

[Name removed]

404. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[motorcityliberal]

416. This whole "Teach Obama a Lesson" thing is working so perfectly, isn't it?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/10/954717/-This-whole-Teach-Obama-a-Lesson-thing-is-working-so-perfectly,-isnt-it


byEclectablog


In Wisconsin. In Ohio. In Michigan. In Florida.

All across the country, the True Liberals' efforts to teach Barack Obama a lesson are paying off in spades. Their plan could not have worked out more perfectly. After a year of shouting to the highest heavens about how much they were disappointed in President Obama and the Democrats, after a year promising to withhold their support during the 2010 Midterm campaign and, more importantly, at the ballot box, they got their wish: Democrats stayed home in droves. Huge numbers of Democrats across the country, many of whom had voted for the very first time in 2008, got up and went to the fridge instead of the polls that late Fall Tuesday.

Yesterday, in Wisconsin, the tea party Governor and his cadre of Republican Senators figured out a way to bypass Senate Democrats' exploitation of a loophole that allowed them to put the brakes on a GOP effort to drive a stake into the heart of unions in their state. Most collective bargaining rights for teachers and public employees are now gone as if they were trash taken to the curb. Sure, Scott Walker's favorables took a beating there for awhile. If it weren't for that pesky quorum loophole, this would have all been taken care of weeks ago and his numbers wouldn't have tanked so far. But that's water under the bridge and now they are back on track. The unions have been squashed like bugs and they can go back to laughing at the protesters as they are frisked and searched and scanned just to enter a public building.

Barack Obama has really got to be smarting over that, eh? He's really paid the price now, by golly.

In Michigan yesterday, the GOP-controlled Senate passed a bill that enhances the Republican Governor's ability to declare financial emergencies in municipalities and appoint an Emergency Financial Manager (EFM). This EFM will have authority to do pretty much whatever they wish including suspending contracts with unions and other groups and even firing the existing elected officials. Rachel Maddow explained it very well the other night. There was a protest at the Capitol before the vote, of course. Over 700 people showed up, mostly union employees. Know what the Republican who introduced the bill said about the protest? "I don't think it had an effect outside of the fact we had to talk a little bit louder today." Ouch. They had to talk a little louder.

But that's not all that is coming down the pipeline in Michigan. The Republican Governor's budget taxes public and private pensions that helps the elderly. It eliminates the Earned Income Tax Credit that helps the poor. It eliminates a huge tax credit for filmmakers in Michigan, killing that job-creating baby in its crib. It eliminates tax credits for vehicle battery manufacturers, strangling a nascent industry before it even gets off the ground. It eliminates tax credits for redeveloping brownfield sites, ensuring that new industrial development will take place on undeveloped, pristine lands rather than on already-despoiled soil. Here's one: there's a union-busting bill in Congress to make Michigan a "Right to Work" state or, as the unions call it, a "Right to Work for LESS" state. All of this and businesses are getting billions of dollars in tax breaks, paid for by the elderly, the poor and whichever other down-trodden groups you can name.

"Eclectablog, what shall we do???!" I'm asked. "We can't let this stand. We must protest. Where is OFA???"

What can we do? We can't do ANYTHING! In Michigan, the Republicans control the House. The Republicans control the Senate. The Republicans control the Supreme Court. The Governor is a Republican. When we protest, they just talk a little louder. And after they get done redistricting our formerly solid-Democratic state this year, we'll be lucky if our dog catchers are Democrats.

Protest at the Capitol? Sorry, I won't waste my time.

But, I'll tell you this: President Obama has surely learned his lesson. These union-busting, pro-business moves by the Michigan GOP have got to be chapping his britches something fierce.

It's happening in Florida, too. Tea Party Governor Rick Scott is unstoppable. He's solving his state's multi-billion dollar deficit by cutting taxes on businesses by several billion dollars and he's cutting teachers' pay to do it. He's rejecting federal funds to develop high-speed rail.

Take that, Obama!

How about Ohio? The Republican Governor there is assaulting the unions, too. And the only difference between Wisconsin and these other three states is that Wisconsin Democratic Senators had a quorum loophole they could use to stop a vote. Well, they could stop it for three weeks. Then the unions got their asses handed to them anyway.

Last night Rachel Maddow said her staff's analysis shows there are Republican-sponsored union-busting bills in the Congresses if no less than SEVENTEEN states.

Ed Schultz has been on fire on MSNBC these past three weeks, hasn't he? Nothing like pure, unadulterated union-busting by Republicans to get old Ed fired up and ready to go. A let's not pretend Ed didn't have a plan for this all along, right? Remember this from him last fall?

And I’m announcing today, I’m not going to vote in the midterms. I’m not going to do it. You can say it’s un-American. No, it’s rather revolutionary is what it is. I’m at that point. I’m checking out. I’m checking out of the Democrats because they are proving to me that they don’t know how to handle these big babies over on the right that say no. You know what you do? You get in the driver’s seat, you hit the throttle, and you run over them.
Un-American? Hell no, Ed! That's as American as it gets. Hell, it's practically Republican, it's so American! Create a problem that you yourself can benefit from. Help make sure the GOP takes control by helping suppress the Democratic vote then watch your rating positively SOAR when you get to be on television almost non-stop when they start crushing unions like cockroaches.

Man, you sure showed them, Ed. Obama has really got to be feeling this now, what with all those union people getting crushed and taxes being cut on the backs of the poor and the elderly.

And, let's make no mistake, it's not just Ed who is teaching a lesson to Obama. Here's part of an email I got recently from a friend, a liberal who is disappointed in the President. I had reached out to him to help us start organizing in our area so that we're ready to really hit the ground hard for the 2012 elections. He was very active in 2008 so I had hoped that he and others in our area would be eager to help get Dems elected again in 2012 considering that they control everything in our state right now. Hah. Boy was I ever wrong:

Thank you and everyone for all the hard work you guys do and will be doing. I really enjoyed working with all of you a couple of years ago.
Unless there are some drastic changes in his policies over the next few months which I doubt I simply cannot bring myself to put forth my time and money to help this President. I thought we were electing someone who would fight for our ideals and yet he has managed to compromise on just about every campaign issue he was for. From health care which no public option was even fought for, to tax cuts for the top 2% that he instantly gave, Gitmo, etc. And the major issue is the fact we are bombing even more than the Bush administration in Pakistan killing innocent people. The economic and other issue I may be able to get past but this I can’t. Along with Rendition still going on.

President Obama will probably still get my vote as from what I see the other side will probably have someone even worse but that will be to the extent of my support for him.

It's not just him. I'm hearing this from lots of Democrats. Hell, I see it on the progressive blogs like Daily Kos on a daily, even hourly, basis. They are going to teach Obama a lesson for not delivering everything they want by handing the keys to the kingdom back to the people who are most likely to screw them over.

So, I hope you like watching the unions getting squashed. I hope you enjoy watching business taxes being cut while taxes are raised on the poor and the elderly. I hope you enjoy watching environmental regulations done away with and health insurance reform rolled back. I hope you will enjoy it when even the modest regulatory reforms on Wall Street are sent to the dustbin of history and the improvements in our food regulatory system are done away with. I hope you will enjoy it when the reproductive rights of women are taken away and the rights of minorities are degraded; when same sex couples see their dream marriage sent down the garbage disposal and members of the LGBT community are put back in the military closet. We all need to start getting used to these things.

Why? Because all that stands between us and all of these things and more happening is four Senators and one President.

We have a choice to make and we better start getting on that because the first debates of the 2012 election are next month.

If Democrats stay home in droves next year, we'll lose the Senate and the Oval Office, too, and what you're seeing in Michigan will just be a microcosm of what will happen nationally.

But, hey, at least Obama will have learned a lesson.

I'm just sayin'...

Here's my take: I'm telling you firebaggers this,if you pull off this same shit in 2012, when you find a candidate you back in 2016 I'm not voting and I'm going to encourage others not to vote. So when Adam Green or groups like his start calling house to make sure people vote for a Alan Grayson or Russ Feingold. I'm going to tell them sorry dude I just got something in from Netflix or Gamefly so I can't vote.

[AlbertCat]

419. If you don't at least vote.... you can't complain.

[Iris]

436. According to Walker's supporters, you can't even complain even if you DO vote.

[motorcityliberal]

538. 2012

If the actions of these Republicans controlled state houses don't motivate you to vote next year then you're just being a self-righteous prick. Am I 100% happy with President Obama? Hell no. But come on how are you moving him to the left when you sit at home and allow people who are out to destroy him win the majority in one chamber and put them in striking distance in the other chamber? Some of you work at jobs you don't like but you show up, so what make voting any different?

As for my last comment in that article I posted: the 2012 election has become the most important election ever and if those people play that card of "I'm disappointed" and allow the Republicans to retake the senate and the White House, then don't ask for support from people like me when you find a candidate to support. Because those people enable further destruction of the middle class for their own personal feelings. So when 2016 rolls around don't get mad when I tell ya getting a trophy in "Call of Duty" is more important than voting for whomever gets the seal of approval from The Young Turks,FireDog Lake or Daily Kos.

[Imagevision]

677. K&R

[Historic NY]

461. +100 when he did hit the bricks no one listened, but you'all listened to Ed.

You don't always get the government you want, but you certainly get the government you deserve when you don't vote.

[DirkGently]

489. So it's the fault of people Obama has disappointed that he continues to disappoint them?

That's some impressive intellectual somersaulting right there.

[motorcityliberal]

537. You goddamn right it's their fault

For over 30 years right wingers have always voted against their own interest so why should I be upset with them? That's like getting mad at a dog for barking all the time. Being disappointed maybe a good enough excuse for you but for me when you allow the party that almost sent this country into another Great Depression back into power because your "disappointed" doesn't fly with me. Those people who decided to stay home on election night are far worst than those who vote against their interest because of some social phobia or some millionaire on the radio told them so.

If you want some intellectual somersaulting what about the day after the election when firebaggers like Cenk who spent most of 2010 demoralizing the Democratic base tried to blame the President for people not showing up.

[DirkGently]

539. Cenk's on the Enemies List too? A what ... 'firebagger?' Good luck launching that new epithet.

Ed Shulz, Cenk ... obviously Hamsher is on your Blame List -- thus the weirdo "firebagger" epithet in every post.

It's too bad Obama and the political leaders seeking the people's votes couldn't maybe do something to EARN those votes. Maybe a policy here or refuting the "Obamacare is communism" meme there. Something like that.

But that would be crazy talk. Clearly the people expressing their opinions and concerns, the liberal Democrats fighting tooth and nail to articulate the disasters actually happening in this country, standing up for US and what Democrats and liberals actually believe in, are at fault for speaking their minds.

How dare they?

Yeah, it was definitely Ed Schulz and Cenk Unger who lost the midterms for Democrats. That makes the most sense.

Definitely.

[Name removed]

584. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

597. the GOP might have put the country in the first leg of a depression, but Obama's inaction

on financial reform is ensuring that we'll endure an even worse financial collapse when these derivatives go tits up.


your assertion that it's the victims' fault is as offensive as your use of the smear "firebagger."

[pam4water]

612. So true.

[defendandprotect]

652. Agree -- Obama's stimulus was only 25% or less of what economists told him was needed ...

and, in fact, as usual, think he "compromised" on less?

The stimulus is gone -- and so is Obama!!

The bail outs were simply another Wall Street coup -- and should never have happened.

It was the end of capitalism -- and we should have let it happen!!

We need an economic system based on true economic democracy --


PS: It's also interesting to watch the upset with a growing list of liberal commentators!

They "hate" Michael Moore, Firedog/Jane Hamsher, Cenk, Schultz, Glenn Greenwald, Wm. Greider --

on and on!!

:evilgrin:

[motorcityliberal]

664. Free Underground Republic

It seems fanboys confuse telling the truth about their idols as hate.

[motorcityliberal]

663. So let me get this right

Obama didn't move fast enough so you allow the people that enable the crash get back into power? That makes tons of sense.

[TheEuclideanOne]

684. Do you notice an underlying theme in the responses to you? They don't agree or disagree with you.

They simply argue that you do not make any sense. Curious coincidence?

I have to hand it to you for trying. If I went onto FreeRepublic and tried to act passionately about some Republican issue, I could definitely not do it well.

[motorcityliberal]

688. DU lives in another reality while I live in the real world

How can I say this without the moderator getting his or her panties in a bunch? I don't give a damn rather you agree or disagree with me.. But I can explain why I don't make sense to some of you folks I talked about reality you folks lived in a fantasy world much like your counterparts that go World Net Daily or Fox Nation you react nasty when someone hit you with facts and call you out on your bullshit.

Taking a line from a song "Ya don't have to like me you just mad cuz I tell it like it is, while you tell it what it might be."

Here's what I don't get you people get lead by the nose by people who are only interested in clicks and Ad money.

[TheEuclideanOne]

705. Hypocrisy alert

So you think that you are giving facts? I haven't seen any. What fact are you referring to? The only thing that I have heard from you is your opinion that because you are a blind cheerleader, you are helping Obama.

You keep going back to clicks and Ad money, but that makes even less sense. How do the opinions of progressives like Cenk translate to clicks on DU? I must say that you are not a clear thinker. Did somebody say that a while back and you keep repeating it?

Also, you criticize people like Cenk and others for calling it the way they see it, yet you use that as your defense and the reason that just about everybody who responds to your arguments insinuates that you are making really stupid arguments. Seems like a hypocritical argument to me.

[Confusious]

614. Can't tell the truth now?

Cenk just told everyone what was going on. They made the decision to stay home. The ultimate fault lies with Obama who disillusioned the people who voted for him.

If you can't do something about the message, shoot the messenger, huh.

[motorcityliberal]

665. Shooting the messenger?

Boy you Cenk fanboys are odd lot here's a example of someone who knows what they're talking about vs Cenk

A piece from Al Giordano

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/3948/progressive-kagan

The other “Progressives Against Obama” member I’ll take to the woodshed today is radio and TV host Cenk Uygur, for whom the Kagan nomination likewise is not really about Kagan but about Obama himself. He writes:
“My problem with her is my problem with Obama. Cheney and Bush moved the ball 80 yards down-field (sic, as anyone who knows the NFL spells it downfield, without hyphen), whether that was on executive power, warrantless wiretapping, pre-emptive wars or just about any other issue you can think of. And Obama's bold and brilliant response is to move the ball 10 yards in the opposite direction. Not good enough. Not remotely good enough…
“He is never going to throw the ball down the field. If you like two yard pick-ups by a running-back going straight up the middle, you'll love Obama. It's the Eddie George presidency. What he doesn't seem to get is that the other side is eventually going to get the ball back and then it won't seem like a major accomplishment that we went from our own two-yard line to our own twelve-yard line. It'll be viewed as a tremendous disappointment.”
Actually, Mr. Uygur, you ought to get to know the games of football and of politics before nominating yourself as head coach or quarterback. You should at least know the rules of the game. In football, moving the ball ten yards downfield is precisely good enough. It is called gaining a first down, that which allows your team to remain in possession of the ball and keep battling downfield toward touchdowns and field goals, while denying the opposing team time on the clock to do so.
The name-dropping of running back Eddie George is also revealing as to just how greatly Uygur’s comparison fails epicly: Eddie George, at Ohio State University, won the Heisman Trophy in 1995, and he rushed for more than 10,000 yards in only eight years in the NFL (presidents, by law, can’t last more than eight) and George helped bring his middling team to the Super Bowl in just four years, one first down at a time. In his first season with the Houston Oilers-cum-Tennessee Titans franchise (when George earned the NFL’s Rookie of the Year title), the team won just eight games to eight losses. By 1999, the Titans had 13 wins to three losses and went to the Super Bowl.
What got them there? First downs and ball possession, largely thanks to Eddie George: That team won by running the ball up the field three or four yards per play.
Guys like Solomon and probably Uygur (the jury is still out on the latter) are a bit distinct from pond scum like Greenwald and Hamsher, who are only in it for their own protagonist careers. The former are more akin to those fans in the bleachers always screaming at the quarterback to throw the long ball even against teams skilled at interceptions.

[Confusious]

679. The only problem with the guys speil

Is that we're not at first and ten anymore.

We're at fourth and 100.

If you think we're at first and ten, well, you just haven't been paying enough attention, or just don't care. We've never been at first and ten. The best MAY have been 2nd and ten 60 years ago, from there it's gone downhill.

mediocre just isn't good enough. The problems we face just won;t allow it.

If you want me to continue the stupid football analogy, Obama is playing like it's the pre-season when it's the superbowl.

Do you understand now?

To put it in cenk terms, he bigs the F***ing weak sauce to a chili cook-off.

[motorcityliberal]

690. Cenk fanboys are lame

Yeah because you self-righteous firebaggers fumble the ball mid-field, instead of going the extra one inch to pick up another first down you folks pissed in your pants,let out a big ass cry and dropped the ball then ran home.

But it's clear debating a Cenk fanboy is going to be like debating an liquor up Red Sox fan, the guy I cited undress your guy with facts and he crushes Cenk by using his own logic against him.

Cenk is nothing but a snakes oil salesmen and you people are buying up bottles.


Really dude you need to pick up an football rules guide because like Cenk you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[Confusious]

691. I spend my time doing other things

Then watching football. Learning for one.

And it wasn't much of a debate, you were just hurling insults. But what is one to expect?

[motorcityliberal]

700. Cenk is still a snakes oil salesman

It's clear from the segment of that post I cited your boy Cenk doesn't know the objective of the game. According to Cenk's flaw logic he wants Obama to throw the ball against the Jets' secondary on every down not picking up yards via the running game or dump off passes. Insults I admit you firebaggers have earn the same level of respect I give those on the right which is none.

You people bitch and whine then when you guys screw things up i.e. enabling the Republicans to seize majorities in the House and the state houses with this amazing plan of staying home and not voting you want to blame those of us who warned and tried to stop it.

[TheEuclideanOne]

633. The reality, MotorCityLiberal, is that it is not about us.

Chances are that the people on discussion boards like this are going to vote. Even the ones that will swear up and down that they won't vote. Everybody is frustrated because the current administration is making it impossible for them to win by demotivating the masses, and not in subtle ways. At a certain point, you simply can not get people motivated. Unfortunately, the administration has a consistent pattern of doing everything that they can to ensure that they will lose in 2012. This was evidenced in a smaller scale in 2010.

One way that you view Cenk's contribution to political outcomes is the way that you did. Another way that you can look at it is that Cenk is simply a mirror of what the Democratic voters are feeling. He did not demoralize the voters, he displayed the frustration of somebody who was witnessing, step by step, everything the president was doing to make sure that people did not show up at the polls. Being angry at Cenk is simply shooting the messenger. For example, defunding Acorn had a big impact, and Cenk's opinion reflected that very clearly. But Cenk did not defund Acorn, did he? We was furious about it, like many people, but not responsible for it. Part of the anger is knowing how that will hurt the cause of getting people to the polls. I am sure that I can give you a 100 examples, but I am hoping you get my point. What you are doing is blaming Cenk about being angry instead of blaming the people who did the things that made him angry.

[nashville_brook]

637. great comment...my bad analogy: it's like getting mad at the team you're losing to...

it's not only bad sportsmanship, it makes matters worse. what you're supposed to do is get back in the zone. play your game with integrity and don't be a cry baby when you come unprepared.

the analogy falls apart as a political metaphor b/c there's never just one game being played. and that's what we're starting to realize...that WE'RE being played. the old "teams" have disintegrated and everyone is a free agent...out for their own contract.

[Name removed]

638. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[motorcityliberal]

662. For what it's worth

This what gets me about people that post here and that group that bitch about everything Obama does for ad-clicks you claim you cared about the middle class, yet you allow a political party that's been trying to kill the middle class for the last 30 years get back into power only because you didn't get everything you want. The Democratic controlled house passed progressive legislation and those bills went to the senate to die, so how is that President Obama fault? Instead of trying to elect more Democratic senators to push these bills over the finish line, you enable less.

As for Cenk and the others I understand going against Cenk on this site is like going on a Xbox 360 fan message board and post Halo 3 sucks ass but the truth is they demobilize the base by joining their right wing buddies by attacking the positive things that has happen. And if you wanted a public option blame those who sat at home. If you wanted a stronger banking bill, be angry at those who stayed home.

And plus I'm not telling ya folks what to do, but I say this if you allow what happen in 2010 happen in 2012 there's going to be people that's going to repay you folks the favor in 2016. And you'll be stuck wondering how Russ Feingold or Alan Grayson got smoked by the Republican president.

[Bake]

666. And what we're saying is Obama hasn't done jack shit for the middle class.

He's too busy kissing up to Wall St. and the Chamber of Commerce, and giving tax cuts to the rich.

I've had to face the sad facts, after supporting Obama and VOTING (and yes, I voted Dem down the line in 2010), I'm no better off than I was under W. Hell, I'm WORSE off now.

Does that mean, as you suggest, that I want the Pukes in the White House? Hell no. What it MEANS is that I want a REAL DEMOCRAT in the WH, not the phony corporatist we have now. I want a DEMOCRAT who supports labor and the middle class.

What part of that don't you understand?

And if Obama is the Dem nominee in 2012, yeah, I'll hold my nose and vote for him. But I won't be happy about it. And I sure as hell won't be a volunteer, and I wo't be a contributor.

Just a voter. Like the ones you blame for being disappointed in Obama.

Bake

[motorcityliberal]

674. Take a blue pill and chill

One saying there's little difference between what's going on in the first two years of the Obama presidency and the last eight years of the Bush presidency proves you people are either just as misinformed as the Fox News viewers or you're one of the folks that expected a pony that farts gold dust and shits strawberry ice cream. Once again the house passed over 200 pieces of legislation that should get every DUer either stiff or moist yet it's Obama fault when the senate held it up or outright killed the bill.

Two I wish I had the power to grant one of you arm chair presidents a day being the president and watch how you folks deal with political realities. I bet half of you guys will a bigger failure than Waterworld or the virtual gameboy.

Hey guess what if Obama fails in 2012, don't be surprise when the DU,Firedog lake and the Young Turks approved candidate get his ass beat in 2016 because half of the Democratic party decides to return the favor. I'll tell ya right now any dem candidate for president that get any measure support from the firebag wing of the Democratic party I'm staying home. And anybody from that campaign calls my house he or she's going to hear "Sorry playing Madden NFL Football 16 is more important than voting so leave me alone"

You guys pull this shit in 1994,2000 and 2010 this cycle of going oh well I can understand they were disappointed with the Democrats is no longer a valid. The self-righteous prick wing of the Democratic Party like to talk about the middle class yet they allow the party that's trying to kill the middle class back in power anytime they don't get 100% of their demands.

No more.

[TheEuclideanOne]

667. Technically it is the fault of people like you that we lost so much in 2010

Perhaps you can explain how cheerleading everything that the administration does, regardless of how much it goes against the entire group of people that elected him, will help in 2012.

Let me ask you, who is at fault at 2010? The ones that blindly cheerleaded the president, or the ones that pointed out that the president is going down a path that will lose seats in 2010?

So, great, you were cheerleading the president on all the way through 2010. We lost a ton of seats and whay does that make it our fault instead of your fault? You keep on acting like somehow it is everybody's fault but yours.

Now please tell me how your cheerleading approach gets obama re-elected in 2012.

[motorcityliberal]

675. Miss batter,batter miss

Firebag logic gotta love it almost Charlie Sheen like,

When you joined in on the president has fucked everything up bandwagon people who don't pay attention to politics or follow news closely will go "Damn left winger Ed Schultz and right winger Sean Hannity both say the president is a screw up, why in the hell would I vote for his party?" I said the healthcare bill should have been better but how you're going to get a better health care bill when you allow the Republicans control of the house for the next two years? Yeah I wanted tough Wall Street reform but how the hell you're going to get it now when you let the Republicans run the house?

I chose to vote and I chose to tell people that you don't want the Republicans to win because bad shit is going to happen and surprise, surprise bad shit is happening and it's my fault. Damn me for wanting to save the Democratic majority in the house and trying to warn people about allowing wingnuts to take over their state houses.

You confuse cheerleading with trying to prevent a total wingnut takeover.. And guess what who's right and who's wrong right now? Republican house trying to pass a repel of health care, cuts to NPR and PBS, cuts to education, cuts to social services, dumb ass anti-abortion bill after dumbass anti abortion bill and their strange obsession of going after Planned Parenthood and if you like me and you live in Michigan democracy is about to die at any moment. Yeah I'm a fucking cheerleader because I wanted people to prevent what's going on now. Here's the truth about people like me and people like you we fight, you guys people whine. we vote to save our interest and you people cry about wanting some left wing president that never existed.

You let the people you claim to care about down I didn't I got my ass up every morning posting stories about what Republicans want to do if they get power back, I send out emails and letters and on election day I made sure everyone I know got their asses to their voting place. The people you follow Cenk and Jane Hamster wanted clicks and ad money and you fell for their shit. Being disappointed is temporary, damages a right wing government can cause last almost a lifetime.

[TheEuclideanOne]

685. You really love that word Firebag, eh?

The ironic thing is that you think that cheerleading is the most important thing you can possibly do. I would throw a question out there for you answer to make your case, but I can see from your posts that you are never able to do that. You can not make the case because your only line of reasoning is "We are not them".

The problem with this blind cheerleading is that, in a sense, it gives the impression that bad behaviour is acceptable when, in reality, bad behavior is what leads to losing elections. Take this current example with Unions. You can cheer on the Obama administration all day long for helping the Unions to be completely dismantled. You can email all of your friends and tell them that Obama is the most awesomest president EVARRRR because he helped to ensure that the Unions are dismantled. You can put on a fucking cheerleaders outfit and prance around the front of the whitehouse declaring your love for Obama and how awesome he is because.... he is not a Republican president. At the end of the day, if the Unions are dismantled, see how well we do in 2012, even with all of your cheering. Encouraging the president to continue doing the opposite of what the people elected him to do will ENSURE BIG LOSSES FOR THE DEMS. Unfortunately, to the simple minded like yourself, you think it helps the dems.

Me, on the other hand, support the viewpoint that it is not a good thing for a Democratic President to help the Unions to be dismantled. If I wanted that, I would have voted Republican. Yes, when Republicans are in power that is what they do. BUT HERE IS WHAT YOU FAIL TO RECOGNIZE.... if a democratic president keeps fucking everything up and abandons the people who elected him, that will ensure a Republican presidency for many terms to come. Look at what happened in 2010.

It is like enabling an alcoholic. Giving the drunk another drink might feel better if you are a week person, but it does not help the alchoholic. What helps him is to help him to stop drinking. Similarly, you might feel as if you are not being patriotic by saying "My president is doing a bad job", but you are not helping the party by cheering him on as he does one thing after the next to ensure that the Republicans win the next election.

[motorcityliberal]

687. Blah,blah and more firebag bullshit,

Before I start FIREBAG,FIREBAG MOTHERFUCKIN FIREFUCKINGBAG

Whew that felt pretty good. Cheerleading? Highlighting the positive and telling the truth is what I do what you folks do is whine and act like teenage girls who just started their period. You guys didn't thought Al Gore wasn't liberal enough so you folks either voted for Ralph Nader or you stayed home thus ushering the worst period in American history. The last two years the house passed every thing you folks wanted but how did you repay them? Whine, whine repeating a lie I heard on Cenk shitty web show and staying at home. Now the Republicans are pretty much taking a machete to everyone you folks claimed to care about but it's not the fault of those who chose to stay home, it's the fault of the people who warned people about what could happen if the Republicans win and voted brilliant reasoning.

I tell ya this all day, if this president goes down in 2012 and we get stuck with another George W.Bush Republican, any Democratic candidate for president that get any measure of support from this site, Fire Dog Lake, The Young Turks and Glenn Greenwald I will encourage people to stay home and let the firebaggers try win a election by themselves.. So when Adam Green or any other group like PCCC call either tell them where to go or tell them you rather watch a cat cough up a hairball than help your candidate because I'll be damn to help you bastards again after enabling another four years of hell because you're disappointed .

[nashville_brook]

697. it's the over-the-top personal attack that makes this persuasive

[DirkGently]

698. Not to the mention the swell random misogynist flailing. But the crown jewel remains

doggedly ignoring the reality that Democratic agitators and critics not only can't be conflated with not voting or with Republican victory, but, as you illustrated so well with the MLK / LBJ example, are absolutely REQUIRED to give mainstream leaders the political cover to enact real change.

2012 is still a way off. If we don't talk about and fight for these things now, OURSELVES, neither Obama nor anyone else will tackle them for us.

[motorcityliberal]

703. Too bad this doesn't have a wrong answer buzzer

If you guys were around during that time in American history your first reaction to resistance would be running home, while others would be pressing forward. The idea you're teaching the President a lesson or pushing him to your direction by giving power to people that have no interest other then enriching themselves and their donors is insane. That's like me saying we gotta stop this leak in this boat quick create a bigger hole.

Again the House did most of the things you wanted yet you allowed them to get their clocks clean and for what? Instead of getting more Democrats in the senate to prevent D-bag Republicans to hold things up or Harry Reid watering down house bills to get support from Blue dogs you enable more Republican cock blocks in the senate.

And what's going on now should make voting Democratic a easy choice but again the self-righteous only think about their OWN personal feelings.

[DirkGently]

704. You're making up this "lesson teaching" thing. Nothing happens without outside agitation. Eg, MLK.

Edit: Noticed you've conveniently ignored the fact that the very example you raised disproves your entire argument. LBJ could have done NOTHING without MLK agitating from the outside. Against a Democratic President. To allow him to enact real change.

Ironic that you keep talking about understanding how politics "really works," while arguing for a silent, non-critical constituency, which worked exactly NEVER.

[TheEuclideanOne]

706. It doesn't have a wrong answer button - if it did, you would be the first to know.

Please do encourage people not to vote for Obama. My thought is that since you suffer from such a complete absense of logic in any of the arguments you make, that people are very likely to do the opposite of what you recommend.

Even in this analogy about who would stay and who would run, you argue that the people that never object to anything are the ones that are likely to fight?

I have said this a 1000 times, but the people you are fighting do not want Republicans to gain power, they want the exact opposite, they just believe that blind cheerleading, especially when the President does things that will lose him support, will prevent him from being re-elected. If you need any evidence, look at the last election.

[motorcityliberal]

702. So thin skin at DU

I'm telling you folks the reality if you people pull this same dumb ass stunt in 2012 as you did in 2010 when the country is still in a fragile recovery because you're disappointed the president didn't give you a gold shitting pony. People should return the favor if there's a Democratic candidate in 2016 that gains the support from this site, firedog lake, Glenn Greenwald and The Young Turks people should freeze them out meaning no money, no GOTV efforts and if someone from that campaign calls to remain them to vote please tell them you have other better things to do.

[TheEuclideanOne]

708. So you highlight the positive and ignore the negative

Explain how that works to get the president Re-Elected? Just because you ignore the negative doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If you ignore it, it also does not mean that other people will decide to ignore it as well. In fact, it is more human nature to recognize the negative. This is where your logic is flawed.

The people that you at odds with take the position that if you just ignore the bad, it is likely to happen again. The more it happens, the more we can kiss re-elections of democrats goodby.

In fact, only bad things can come from your like of thinking. They are a) The president continues to push through Republican issues, fighting Democratic issues, and somehow gets re-elected. The end result is that we have a democrat pushing through a Republican agenda. So Obama wins, but does the exact same thing a Republican would do. or b) The President does things that the party is completely opposed to... loses the election as a result... and the country is over-run by Republican issues.

This is exactly why your logic is backwards. I challenge you to paint a scenario where your strategy leads to anything positive.

[TheEuclideanOne]

669. So walk us through this brilliant strategy of yours.

The Republicans have just destroyed the Unions across the country. Obama sides against te Unions and infuriates millions of his supporters who would expect him to take the side of labor. What do you do? Do you just tell everybody that Obama is awesome and should support him on that after they lost their collective bargaining rights and he fought for the other side? Please share with me how you see it, because up to now you seem to have major holes in your logic.

[motorcityliberal]

678. I guess that saying about jokes is right

You know the saying every joke has a bit of truth in it but damn you folks prove that video Manic Progressive vs Obama supporter 100% correct. Like I told the other clown the logic here is amazing a portion of the Democratic Party decided to be selfish pricks and stayed home thus allowing the Republicans to win majorities which allowed them to carried through their wingnut agenda you're justify but guys like me who warned people that if the Republicans win nasty things could happen so it's best to keep the Democratic majority are assholes.

You can try to flipped this on those who still defend the President all you want. But at the end of the day those who decided to stay home gave their consent to the Republicans to go after the unions, go after Planned Parenthood, go after the middle class and democracy it self.

[TheEuclideanOne]

681. See? I was not expecting you to be able to answer the question.

Let's look at 2010. You pointed out that you talk to people and tell them to support the President regardless of whatever he does. Well, if the reaction of the people on this website is any indication, I am guessing that doesn't work. Most people here react to you like you are an idiot. So, I am guessing that this is the typical way that people react to your argument. It is because you simply can not support your argument with any reasoning.

I am sure that there are people just like you in the Obama administration, whispering the exact same thing in his ear. I am sure it sounds something like "Hey, Obama, this is going to be an amaazing ride for you. You can do literally anythning you want because the people HAVE TO vote for you. You can literally take the exact opposite position on everything you ran on. How beautiful is that?!? They have no other choice. I mean literally, no other choice. The Republicans are so vile and evil that there is no way that they would vote for them. This is a cake walk! Think about it, 2010 is just around the corner... what...are they going to vote in a bunch of Republicans? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.".

When you can start answering questions like the one I sent you, then you will have fewer people reacting to you like you are a well meaning idiot (at best).

[motorcityliberal]

689. What question?

Sorry I don't pay attention to FB questions due to the fact it's not based on reality and it was total bullshit. Here's the facts you Democratic House that passed over 200 pieces of progressive legislation and showing how great she was as Speaker Nancy Pelosi got the blue dogs to tag along with those bills. Yes it sucked that those bills either got held up or died in the senate, yet that's President Obama? If you wanted a health care bill that fit your fancy how enabling the Republicans to take over the house get you that? If you wanted a stronger Wall Street bill how is giving the Republicans the house help to get that bill?

Again you guys fucked up you and no matter how much you FB try deflect fault you guys loaded the gun and you guys handed that gun to the Republicans to do whatever they want.

[nashville_brook]

686. if you're so concerned about GOP rule, then you should care that Obama has coopted that strategy

as his own. we don't need the GOP to destroy the middle class anymore b/c we've got a Democratic president doing all the work for them.

[TheEuclideanOne]

707. Exactly

And the things that affect the opinions of the voter are not what Cenk said, but what the president did. I think that people can keep cheerleading and pretending that they didn't happen, but that is not effective (as we saw in 2010), it is like the old tale of the Kings clothes.

[motorcityliberal]

660. Frustration is not excuse

That's bullshit, I never seen so called political movement behave like children when they don't get 100% of the things they want. I give right wingers credit for one thing they vote, no matter how many times the Republicans don't do anything they want them to do they managed to get off their ass, turned off Rush and head to the polls.

As for Cenk I sum my thoughts on him with this post on Angry Black Lady blog "Immediately after the 2008 elections, David Sirota, Jane Hamsher, Cenk Uyger and others loudly opined about how they were going to deal with the likely shortfall in cyber traffic and ad-click revenues with a President in office from their ideological ranks. Their behavior shows the fruits of the Faustian bargain they struck: i.e. to make money as contrarians. They have no actual commitment to any policy cause. Notice their reactions are always predictable no matter what policy issue is on the table. No sane person remains a ONE NOTE track on every single issue in their lives. Their one chorus tells us all there is to know about their motives." But asking a Cenk fanboy to admit that thought is true is probably will be like asking Xbox 360 fanboy to admit there are good games on the PS3.

No matter what Obama did Cenk jumped on the Obama suck side most of the time. Blaming him goes beyond well he said nasty stuff about Obama, the fact is he acts like if he was president he would passed all of your progressive wet dreams with little to no resistance to those policies and yet he doesn't talk about the political realities. So he yeah he demobilized the Democratic base for money and ad-clicks.

To prove what Cenk and others like him saying is bullshit the House passed over 200 pieces of progressive legislation over the last two years and yet they're the ones that paid the heavy price. And instead of electing more liked minded Democratic senators people stayed home.

[TheEuclideanOne]

670. Isn't there a FreeRepublic discussion board waiting for you to reply.

Hey, you had your fun here playing democrat. Nice vacation, but time to head back to Freeper land.

[motorcityliberal]

672. Defending a Democratic president make me a freeper?

Let me get this right, I'm a freeper for defending a Democratic President and his accomplishments against his faux progressive critics. You do know what freeper is right? Democratic Underground where self-righteous firebaggers flame out and whine.

[TheEuclideanOne]

682. Yep, get to scootin.

Clearly, we BOTH know what a freeper is. My advice is to get a bit more coaching and soon you will fit in just fine. Pick a new username and play again. I guess it doesn't matter to you, you are getting paid by the hour, to make these irrational arguments of yours and play pretend. I am sure you make it through all of the discussion boards daily. Thanks for playin.

[defendandprotect]

650. So, in your mind, it's Cenk who "demoralized" the base and not Obama/Rahma + Wall Street crew?

Interesting --

:rofl:



Right Wing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[motorcityliberal]

661. You folks got a strange sense of humor

Boy you Cenk fanboys make Justin Bieber fangirls look sane in comparison. Alright DLC is funded by Koch Brothers yet you allow Koch Brothers supported Republicans win the house all because you're disappointed wow guys your logic is amazing. The house passed progressive legislation in their two years and they died in the senate so it's President Obama fault.

[jacquelope]

534. I agree

I warned people not to stay home in November. I said this mess was coming.

Sometimes history has to teach its own lesson. You get a Republican President and a Republican Congress in 2012 and it really WILL be 2012, in the Mayan sense of the word.

[Ken Burch]

615. You're just saying that everyone should accept that people we vote for owe us nothing.

That's politics as an abusive relationship.

The loyalty has to be strong from above to have the right to be earned below.

(btw, I did vote and always will vote...but you know perfectly well that attacking those who abstained in 2010 can't possibly succeed in GETTING them to vote next time).

[Name removed]

621. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chill_wind]

623. The simple minded irony here is too thick for words:

"Here's my take: I'm telling you firebaggers this,if you pull off this same shit in 2012, when you find a candidate you back in 2016 I'm not voting and I'm going to encourage others not to vote. So when Adam Green or groups like his start calling house to make sure people vote for a Alan Grayson or Russ Feingold. I'm going to tell them sorry dude I just got something in from Netflix or Gamefly so I can't vote. "

[Name removed]

625. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

420. Oh look, now its at +392...

maybe complaining about unrec in the first post wasn't such a good idea after all.

Sid

[DirkGently]

491. That doesn't even make sense, Sid.

[marew]

554. I so agree!

My father, Army career WWII and Korea, if he were alive today would not believe the America we are seeing today. I barely recognize it myself. So tragic.

[EV_Ares]

564. Yeah, same here, I have had it. If there was anything they should be out in front of

if they give a dam about the middle class and workers rights, it is this. Screw them. We will have to go it along with the other liberal organizations.

[defendandprotect]

649. We need a plan for 2012 -- we have two years yet of Obama --

How about we try to draft someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders -- he could run

on a Dem ticket --

and a strong anti-war candidate for VP -- maybe someone like Tom Hayden?

But there would be many dems outside of the party who could run!!

[Name removed]

571. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marie Marie]

2. SIGH!

Sorry, it's just that words fail me.

[MsPithy]

46. How about...

a lusty and full throated FUCK YOU!

[Marie Marie]

54. That would work.

You are obviously much better with words than I. Thank you. :fistbump:

[femrap]

363. LOL!

And for those who deem an 'F' bomb too much, I say:

FOOK YA!!!!

He's so bought and paid for....:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[emilyg]

93. That will do.

[nashville_brook]

109. works for me!

[roguevalley]

147. hungry kids and homeless people brought about by his unwillingness

to do anything about it. Giving money to rich people is more important. He can take his happy joy message and shove it.

[bobbolink]

369. Thank you for remembering us. That is rare, and appreciated!

:yourock:

[roguevalley]

479. Bobbolink, you are always on my mind. You are also in my prayers.

don't despair. this cannot sustain itself.

[bobbolink]

483. Aw, I really appreciate that!

:hug:

[stockholmer]

535. glad to see you are feeling better

:+

[no limit]

291. +1

Surprised that comment is still up.

[Marblehead]

3. worthless

[Poboy]

4. Recommend

[inademv]

5. This should be a clear enough message

That Obama deserves a challenge from the left. Time and time again he has shoved us, his base, aside while he panders to poorly and misinformed "swing" voters, most of whom wouldn't vote for him no matter what he does.

[DirkGently]

14. Too busy agreeing to massive domestic spending cuts to "play nice" with Republicans, I guess.

[jefferson_dem]

16. Bullshit...

Leaving aside that a primary challenge would be a worthless folly...

The harsh reality is that a primary challenges of an incumbent president typically only serves to weaken his party for the General Election (though the damage this time would be miniscule, at best). I suspect you knew that though.

[inademv]

No

Because now is the best time ever to get an actual progressive president in there that will have earned the activism and energy of the progressive majority of this country.

[jefferson_dem]

33. Ha...

Really. You sound like quite the "progressive" supporter. Who do you recommend we primary against Obama?

[inademv]

35. Sanders would be my first choice

Alternatively I would suggest Howard Dean as name recognition goes further than most, however I would be open to suggestions of better, more liberal candidates.

[Golden Raisin]

139. Personally I'd like

to see Russ Feingold but he's Jewish and twice divorced so the Repubs, Fundies and "Family Values" crowds will be apoplectic.

[KoKo]

295. If Newt comes in...then Feingold's twice married wouldn't matter as much, though.

Plus, we've had a Catholic, Protestants, Atheist (Reagan) and now an African-American as Presidents. As long as Feingold doesn't fall into the arms of AIPAC..then he might be a contender.

[tblue37]

194. Sanders is not a Democrat. He just caucuses with them. nt

[tekisui]

222. Thank god for that. Sanders is the only person in DC I trust.

[RKP5637]

316. +1000 +++ n/t

[2banon]

328. Trust Kucinich too... Korporate Media Tools destroyed him..

2008 primaries... first question presented to him was wheter or not it was true he'd seen UFO's.

He answered honestly, but wasn't allowed the time to respond in full.. the fucking prick moderator. can't remember if that was Georgie porgie or Gibson..

[RandomKoolzip]

530. +1

Damn right!

[inademv]

352. That's a good thing

Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, more in tune with what the mass public of America actually wants but will never admit to the label associated with it.

[defendandprotect]

428. Sanders is a "democrat" -- and he can run on a Dem Party ticket --

Sanders is more a democrat than many of our Democrats!!

[swilton]

252. Here are some other names - I have no favorites

Dennis Kucinich, Rocky Anderson, Alan Grayson, Howard Dean, Bernie Sanders - also some dark horses such as Lincoln Chafee - he's now an independent...I wish someone would keep a list of names....

[Autumn Colors]

342. Alan Grayson (nt)

[inademv]

349. I like Grayson more as a legislator

I don't get the impression that he would be as able to pull so called moderates to his side as someone a bit more apt to play politics when needed. Don't get me wrong, I agree with nearly all of Alan's policy ideas but he comes across as too heavy handed (I'll admit that I could be wrong though, given how much I've been disappointed by Obama's behavior).

[roguevalley]

480. Russ Feingold.

[JDPriestly]

132. There are a number of possible candidates.

I would like to see a group of them get together and choose among themselves. I know that would be unusual. But we need a miracle, and all of us progressives need to forget about our egos and join together. I don't think it is too much to ask our leaders to do the same. This is not the time for a star. This is the time for a man of the people.

It's not about personalities. It's about finding a candidate who really cares more about the American people than himself. Some of the contenders would be Bernie Sanders, Howard Dean, Feingold, Alan Grayson, Marcy Kaptur. That is only a tiny portion of the list of people we could consider.

[swilton]

254. Here are some other names to throw in

Dennis Kucinich, Rocky Anderson, Lincoln Chafee

[nxylas]

272. Kucinich has said he won't do it, sadly

Personally, I doubt any of them will, and even if they did, I don't fancy their chances. I hate to give in to despair, but I really can't imagine a primary challenge to a sitting President being successful.

[swilton]

277. Not that I doubt what Kucinich said

I think that if he were begged and in the best of all possible worlds he would do it...(but I know that this is not that world right now given the influence of corporate media, tea-baggers, et. al.)

I also think that there is value in keeping the names of these progressives - whether they are at the top of a ticket or not -

Again, this is a dream world we're talking about - but assuming that there is a candidate to head a ticket - he/she would need supporters for a cabinet and/or to craft policy papers. Kucinich would be of value to such a candidate - he could certainly make contributions to foreign policy for example.

[Auntie Bush]

318. Yeah! Let's put Kuchinch in...then cry when the Republicans win everything everywhere.

We have to be smart about this...we can't get EVERYTHING we want. We HAVE to WIN an WIN big...or we'll LOSE EVERYTHING! Just think of a country without abortion, another conservative SC Justice, without a social safety net, no middle class, half the country below the poverty level, and the millionaires all becoming multi millionaires and even trillionairs. How about a country like that?

Obama was originally more liberal and lost badly...his approval ratings didn't start coming up again till he started compromising with the rePIGS. (That made me sick) He's going to have to compromise again :( if he wants to win the election... so maybe we'll have to grit our teeth and hold our tongues for a little longer. It's called discipline...that's what the Rethugs have and why they won,...big time. Certainly it wasn't because of their platform! Our constantly criticizing the president is one reason he was shellacked in the last election.

We need independents to win and if the Dems are CONSTANTLY unhappy and critical with him... why would Independents vote for him? If they don't...WE LOSE!

Then after he's re-elected and has a majority and doesn't have to worry about being reelected...he'll be FREE to do all the things Liberals and Progressives expect of him. And I truly believe he wants all those things too. We just have to be patient, understanding and smart about it and all good things will be in our future. If Obama loses...life will be pure HELL on earth for 90% of the population...if we survive their pollution.

[Fuddnik]

354. I've got news for you.

You're losing everything right now.

Those people in the streets of Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida are the people that put Obama in office. He's turning his back on them. They won't show up in 2012, and some asshole like Gingrich or Palin will win by default, because nobody is fighting for working people.

Instead of buying comfortable shoes, as he promised, he bought a nice soft pillow to park his ass on.

[bobbolink]

371. Thank you. The obvious is so easily overlooked.

Many of us are done with "the least of the weavils"

[Auntie Bush]

386. You're right...but he' trying not to make waves in order to win the next election.

I really think the Dems and unions can win this as Walker is turning off so many people. You've seen the polls. They don't need Obama in their soiling his pretty fingers and turning off Indies. I know that's really sad! But I want him to win and I'll swallow what I have to in order to accomplish that. Sometimes we have to do things that we object to...just to win. The end justifies the means. Right?

[defendandprotect]

430. ... What good does it do to win with Obama if he is undermining Democratic Party goals and ideals?

How do you benefit if its Obama who tramples universal heath care vs Bush doing it?

How do you benefit if its Obama who overturns Social Security vs Bush doing it?

How do you benefit it is Obama carrying forth with two wars bankruping us vs bush doing it?


:eyes:

[BigBearJohn]

624. but. but he looks so purty standing behind the presidential seal.

[whathehell]

504. Doesn't he see that he's losing people by NOT making waves?

The right (left) kind of waves?...as another poster put it, THESE are the people who VOTED for him,

not dumb teaparty types OR greedy republicans.

[defendandprotect]

656. Of course he does ... which raises other questions ---

Had Obama passed MEDICARE FOR ALL he would have set up the Dem Party for

the next 40 years --

Obama isn't dumb -- he's simply not working for us --

And, I understand that's a difficult conclusion to come to when so many worked

for Obama and were so hopeful when he was elected!!

[Name removed]

659. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[howmad1]

385. You seem to be under the impression that "independents":

are intelligent and would make the wise choice to support Obama in 2012. ARE YOU NUTS? My experience in dealing with independents are that they think so much of themselves as being great thinkers, when in fact, they depend mostly on Faux news to help their decision making process. These people generally are idiots. God help the Democratic party if they have to depend upon independents to win an election and not progressives who worked their asses of to elect this empty suit now occupying the WH.

[lark]

388. I applaud your optimism, but it is sadly misplaced

Obama didn't start out liberal and fold, he started out folding and threw out every liberal position before it even came to negotiating. He gave the Repugs what they wanted, so they could retreat further to the right and they could claim some kind of compromise. There is no compromise with Obama, it's all capitulation. He is not a liberal, no matter what he says in campaign mode, he lied and sold us out the highest bidder. He is not our friend and is not on our side. His true colors are corporatist, pro rich and anti-worker. That's who he is and why he was allowed to become president. Shrub et all knew he was no threat at all and would advance their cause - and he's done exactly that, to his immense shame.

[CrispyQ]

425. "That's who he is and why he was allowed to become president."

And that is the horrid truth. The system is corrupt & compromised. A progressive will never hold the office of the president with the current system in place. And since the people who can change the laws, are benefiting from the current laws, there will be no change.

[defendandprotect]

657. +1000% --- but still difficult for many here to absorb --

many still want to believe that Obama is too nice -- or doesn't quite see

the whole picture -- or is simply weak!

Sad --




The Right Wing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[blackspade]

403. Sorry, Not buying it.

"Then after he's re-elected and has a majority and doesn't have to worry about being reelected...he'll be FREE to do all the things Liberals and Progressives expect of him. And I truly believe he wants all those things too. We just have to be patient, understanding and smart about it and all good things will be in our future. If Obama loses...life will be pure HELL on earth for 90% of the population...if we survive their pollution."

You see, the problem is, he already had his majorities and squandered them kissing repig and Wall St ass.
Life is pure hell for millions of Americans NOW!

[stockholmer]

570. Obama was too afraid of being labeled the new Carter that he became the new Truman

Truman:

1 Dropped the atomic bombs on Japan, The atomization of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a war of more scope than any of the Japanese generals were executed for. If Harry Truman was not a war criminal, then no one ever was.

2 Championed the development of the hydrogen bomb, which makes Fat Man and Little Boy look like firecrackers.

3 The horrific Taft-Hartley Act passed on his watch, and he utterly failed in his attempts to repeal it, thus gutting the Wagner Act, and sowing the foundational seeds of union destruction for the next 60 years

4 Was the first Cold Warrior president, giving left cover to take-over of the US foreign policy by the military-industrial complex

4 Korean War, which he labeled a police action (continuing the War on Terror, anyone?)

5 Failed at true universal health care

6 Tried and failed to push through Universal Military Training (Obama with the mandatory universal service failed as well)

7 Supported enthusiastically the creation of the CIA (enough said there).

8 NATO created with his support, which performed (Opertion Gladio) terrible false-flag terror acts here in the EU for years, killing hundreds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

9 Supported National Security Council Resolution NSC-68 in 1948 (it was classified till 1975), which declared, "a defeat of free institutions anywhere is a defeat everywhere." thus completing redefining American geo-political strategy into a global empire.NSC-48 called for an immediate 300 to 400% increase in military spending, thus military Keynesianism was permanently entrenched.

10 Decimated Article 1, section 8 of the U.S. Constitution (the power of waging war rests solely in Congress) by usurping that power when he stated formally - "The president, as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, has full control over the use thereof."

11 Tried to draft striking railroad workers in the US Army. Only the unlikely alliance of old-right Senator Robert Taft of Ohio and left liberal Claude Pepper of Florida stopped this.

12 Executive Order 10340, where Truman tried to have the US Army seize the steel mills of the USA to stop a national strike by the unions. Defeated by the US Supreme Court in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer.

13 Supported the UN ramming through of the partition of Palestine, and the creation of Israel, despite privately writing to Eleanor Roosevelt "I fear very much that the Jews are like all underdogs. When they get on top, they are just as intolerant and as cruel as the people were to them when they were underneath. I regret this situation very much, because my sympathy has always been on their side."

14 Issued Executive Order 9835 which, in 1947, set up loyalty boards to investigate espionage among federal employees.

15 "THE BUCK STOPS HERE", still waiting on Obama for this one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edited to add link

[RoccoR5955]

379. KUCINICH/SANDERS '12

The ONLY chance for us to take back our country.

[jefferson_dem]

392. KUCINICH / SANDERS / NADER / GRAYSON / HAMSHER!

A wicked five-headed monster for 2012!

[Fuddnik]

492. Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck

Guaranteed to win Florida.

[Name removed]

527. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[abqmufc]

512. Kucinich/Chomsky '12

a man can dream....

[rhett o rick]

565. I find it sad that you throw it in our face that we have no choice.

This lesser of evils spiral is killing us.

[texastoast]

66. Careful

The Illuminati might fool us again.
;-)

[rtassi]

213. +1

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

129. Four more years of Obama is just not worth it.

Can't take it.

Johnson chose not to run rather than to face an angry party base. That saved his reputation.

Hopefully, Obama will either decide to fire most of his advisors and staff or decide not to run and give real Democrats a chance.

Wall Street already has a party, They call themselves the Republican Party. That is not our party.

We need a real Democrat who will run as a Democrat. Obama does not qualify. He is not standing up for working people, for the middle class. How can he expect the American people to get out and vote for him. Things just don't work that way.

A lot of his ideas about moving into the future are great, but we, the American people will not support those ideas unless we feel that Obama supports us. We will not join Obama's program unless we feel that he is joining in ours.

[tomp]

162. the democratic party has been aligning itself with the rich...

....since time immemorial. the game that has been played between the dems and the reupbs has been that the dems have been used to throw slightly bigger bones and leave a few more crumbs for the non-rich than the republicans. that has been changing somewhat over the last few decades to where we now have obama as a clear rightist.

we don't need a "real" democrat, we need a real progressive.

[defendandprotect]

432. Here's one of the major problems --- DLC funded by Koch Bros --

The Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[JDPriestly]

457. Thanks. I had no idea that the Koch Brothers had funded the DLC.

That explains a lot, especially about Hillary's odd right-wing stances, her stubborn support for the Iraq War, for an example.

[defendandprotect]

503. Believe it or not, I didn't either until last week or so -- thanks to the new post

that was put up here at DU --

and almost missed that -- it disappeared in one day!!

[tomp]

620. surprise....NOT! and thanks, nt

[defendandprotect]

658. Keep on tellin' it -- as you can see, many don't know -- !!

[jefferson_dem]

189. Nearly 90% of "real Democrats" approve of the job he's doing.

And most of those who do not approve think he's too liberal. So this "we" you speak of basically means you and a tiny handful of very vocal, disgruntled cynics on the extreme flank of the party.

[myrna minx]

231. Then you have nothing to worry about, right? No one here but we extremists.

:shrug:

[jefferson_dem]

358. Pretty much.

That's true.

Only I should have qualified to say that many of those who are expressing extreme misdirected discontent are not even Democrats.

[JDPriestly]

459. I even voted for LBJ. I am a solid Democrat, a life-long Democrat.

My parents were Roosevelt Democrats. Eleanor Roosevelt was my idol when I was a young girl.

I have frequently noted that we never hear about the political affiliation of Obama's grandparents. I therefore suspect that his grandmother was a Republican, and that is why Obama never talked about his grandmother's political views.

[jefferson_dem]

467. Good for you on the Eleanor Roosevelt thing.

None better, in my opinion. :thumbsup:

[NorthCarolina]

266. What is a "Real Democrat"?

Please elaborate.

[jefferson_dem]

360. The poster I was replying to used the term "real Democrats" so I responded in kind.

:)

[NorthCarolina]

But you employed it not in "reference", but in "response" to that poster

in citing that "nearly 90% of Real Democrats support the job Obama is doing". That being the case, I was very much interested in what YOUR definition of these "real Democrats" that are nearly 90% in favor of Obama's performance, was. Since Obama's performance approval numbers amongst Democrats collectively is nowhere near 60% let alone 90%, the caveat you relied upon to reach your 90% claim was "Real Democrats". Therefore, please define what a "Real Democrat", that you cite, is. I am very curious. Thank you.

[jefferson_dem]

389. A "real Democrat" is one who identifies himself or herself as a "Democrat".

That, in my opinion, is a perfectly valid operational definition for Democratic partisanship.

Perhaps you should pose your question to the other poster who seems far more interested in applying purity tests in order to determine who does ... and who does not ... qualify.

Actually, you're wrong. According to gallup, he was at 88% approval rating among Dems in January. http://www.gallup.com/poll/125345/obama-approval-polarized-first-year-president.aspx Surely, at least half of that 12% of Dems who do not approve do not because they think he is too liberal.

[Lucky 13]

400. A "real" democrat supports Unions.

Been one of the pillars of our party.

But I guess in 2010 it's just a distraction.

[Bake]

668. +1 gazillion.

That's a pretty good definition you got there, my friend!

Like the song said, "who's side are you on?" In the end, if one is not FOR labor, one is against it.

Bake

[NorthCarolina]

472. I have a pretty good idea of what the other poster was

referring to in mentioning "real Democrat" as I pretty much hold the same view. It was your definition that I was most interested in. Your response of 'anyone who self identifies as a Democrat' seems to be contrary to your implied use of "real Democrat". For instance, I would consider the poster you were replying to as a "real Democrat". Would you also consider that particular poster a real Democrat?

[jefferson_dem]

519. Sure.

If a poster says he/she is a Democrat, that's good enough for me (provided a poster is not trolling around as someone who he/she is not). Personally, I'm not big on imposing loyalty tests to determine who qualifies as a fellow Democrat. I hope you feel the same.

Anyway, I've explained my views on partisanship and my reason for using the "real Democrat" label. So be it.

[derby378]

567. Not good enough...

A real Democrat takes the D on her lapel very seriously - she knows the Democratic Party is the party of labor, not the party of throw the unions under the fucking bus.

[WiffenPoof]

477. JFK - FDR

But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

-Sept 1962 JFK

Want me to post the Economic Bill of Rights by FDR? Their pretty good too.

-PLA

[NorthCarolina]

487. That would be my definition of a real Democrat as well, but I

get the impression that for some here on DU, the term "real Democrat" means something quite different than that, and I am trying to get an idea of what exactly that would be. For me personally, I do not view conservative Blue Dogs or DLC New Dems as fitting my understanding of a Democrat, let alone a "real Democrat". I can see where nearly 90% of these conservatives calling themselves "Democrats" would support the job Obama is doing (in reference to a prior posters comment), but I do not believe that 90% of Democrats, in the mold of a JFK style Democrat, would be in support of the job Obama is doing.

So which is it? Are the JFK style Democrats the "real Democrats", or are the Harold Ford / Rahm Emmanuel style Democrats the "real Democrats"? They are at opposite ends of the political spectrum in far too many ways to be lumped together in a "big tent" philosophy, so which are the "real Democrats", and which are the "fringe"? Inquiring minds want to know.

[WiffenPoof]

505. Excellent Post

It should be an Original Thread.

Thanks...

-PLA

[jefferson_dem]

521. "Conservatives calling themselves "Democrats"...

How quaint... Kind of a rigid "fer us or again us" philosophy...only you go about defining people you don't even understand. Ack...

I guess the old saying applies: "There are two types of people in the world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't." Enjoy your blacks and whites.

[Cheviteau]

286. Disgruntled?

I was born in Franklin Roosevelt's second term. I've been a good and loyal democrat all my life....from when my grandmother sat me on her knee and taught me how to be one. Don't put me in the same category with the disgruntled types. I should be placed in the "fucking outraged pool".

[dixiegrrrrl]

323. The definition of "Dem" seems to have changed, methinks.

Back during the Civil War, the Republicans were considered the liberal party.

[AlbertCat]

446. Back during the Civil War, the Republicans were considered the liberal party.

Uh... but this is not the 19th century... or even the 20th century!

So what's your point? Besides, in the 20th century, the Repugs made the CHOICE to be the conservative, racist party. (and lost right away)

[CrispyQ]

454. ...the "fucking outraged pool".

:applause:

Right there with you.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[JDPriestly]

465. Same here, Cheviteau. I remember what a real Democrat was.

[KoKo]

296. Reagan Democrats and DLC Democrats. Obama ran on "Change You Can Believe In"

and those Dems who believed and voted on what they thought he was saying to them will have had enough of him if he keeps on the path he is going down.

[defendandprotect]

437. Sadly -- it's Obama, but not just Obama ... the DLC corporatized the party ....

Right Wing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


Notice how little defense we get from the Democrats at large --

Only a handful most of us can name are out there defending democratic values --

We can name most of them --

Also notice that as weakened as Obama is, no one from inside the party is stepping up

against him because they share those new corporate values --

We need democratis from outside the party who can run on the Democratic Party ticket --

Sen. Bernie Sanders can do that --

Maybe Tom Hayden for president -- someone strongly anti-war --


Personally, I don't see how we're going to survive the next two years of obama --

and certainly don't want to see six more years of this!!

[swilton]

542. Don't rule out small d democrats who are non-politicians

I don't think that everyone who participates in the 'progressive process' has to be a politician and also, not everyone must head the ticket....

there are people behind this movement who would not be ticket headers but would certainly help us in getting where we want to go - there are the politicians first of all - you noted Sanders, Grayson, Feingold,

I would add Rocky Anderson (Utah - former progressive mayor of SLC)

Dennis Kucinich - it's already reported on this post that he would not 'run' again but he would certainly participate in a movement to get a progressive challenger to represent Democratic values.

I would include in the mix of politicians Licoln Chaffee who - as I recall - is pro peace and pro-environment....

But what we are talking about here is so radical we shouldn't limit ourselves to politicians - there are journalists out there such as Ed Schultz, Mike Papantonio, and Michael Moore (know there must be others)

Again not everyone has to head the ticket....if we start collectively getting a progressive group together virtually - the cream will rise to the top.

[defendandprotect]

552. Completely agree with you -- especially with this ....

But what we are talking about here is so radical we shouldn't limit ourselves to politicians - there are journalists out there such as Ed Schultz, Mike Papantonio, and Michael Moore (know there must be others)

Again not everyone has to head the ticket....if we start collectively getting a progressive group together virtually - the cream will rise to the top.



Essentially, we need to go in, pick up the party, and walk off with it -- !!

[Edweird]

375. When you say 'real democrats' you must mean 'republicans pretending to be democrats'.

Everyone I know is pretty much disgusted with him.

[jefferson_dem]

417. Oh...

Everyone you know, huh? Well, that settles it.

[Edweird]

441. I'll check back with you about this November 2012.

Yeah, "everyone I know". I know working people. Blue collar people. Union people. People trying desperately to survive. People that are profoundly disappointed in thew way things have turned out. If the message wasn't clear in 2010, it will be in 2012.

[xiamiam]

378. tell that to the the millions losing their homes who he hasnt helped

forget the polls you are reading..an anti war candidate could win..i dont know anyone who would vote for him again..and we were all so very hopeful..

[lark]

391. So, "real Democrats" watch Faux news?

"Real Democrats" can't be working class, belong to a union, be out of work or ill and can't afford insurance - right? These are extremists? Guess I am a total radical then, because myself, friends and family all meet the descriptions listed on the first line and we do not care for him at all.

[AlbertCat]

424. Nearly 90% of "real Democrats" approve of the job he's doing.

Where did you get that statistic?

I don't believe it.

Post where that 90% figure comes from.... unless it's your ass.

[defendandprotect]

434. Nonsense -- and 2010 proved that -- !! 74% of Americans wanted MEDICARE FOR ALL ...

and the numbers were still climbing at the time of the vote --

The sell-out by Obama to Big Pharma and private health care industry was well understood

by voters --

Americans voted in '06 to end the war -- and here we are in 2011 with two illegal and

immoral wars of aggression still bankrupting our Treasury!!

[jefferson_dem]

522. "Nonsense"?

Take it up with Gallup... Truthiness uber alles!

[defendandprotect]

561. When polls defy common sense -- I'd question them ... and I do !!

And if you have any common sense you can see that Democrats here are making

clear that they are in a post-Obama mode -- probably about 70% of more of them!!

Are they just some weirdo Democrats?


:rofl:

[CrispyQ]

449. "...this "we" you speak of basically means

you and a tiny handful of very vocal, disgruntled cynics on the extreme flank of the party."

Well that & the millions & millions of non-voters who feel that neither party represents them. Every election the dems fall all over themselves trying to get the independent's vote, the moderate's vote, the undecided's vote, even the pissed off republican's vote. Evidently these people's vote is so important that our party is willing to throw our democratic ideals down the crapper to get them. Why don't they consider standing for We the People & go for the non-voter's vote? It's a huge pool! And if the dem party continues it's shift to the right, it's going to get even bigger.

[Truth2Tell]

639. this ^^^^^^^ nt

[JDPriestly]

452. The majority, vast majority of Americans did not want the extension

of tax cuts for the rich. The majority of Americans favor liberal policies on the most important issues.

They are told that liberals are bad but they have no idea that liberals stand for the very ideas they favor.

No. Democrats stayed home in 2010 because they did not feel that Obama was representing their interests. Obama's close relationship with Wall Street bankers has disgusted most of the country. That is why Democrats who voted for Obama stayed home this last election.

I am an activist. The Democratic Party ran great candidates in California -- relatively liberal candidates -- and we won. Obama should take note. If you act and talk like a real liberal Democrat your voters will turn out. If you enter into the lamest compromises just to be able to claim you did something, you will fool no one, and you will lose elections.

People get out and vote when they are excited. Obama is the weakest, least exciting Democratic president in my lifetime, and I am 67.

[axollot]

560. Bullshit. n/t

[rhett o rick]

572. And the "real" Democrats you speak of are really the "new" Democrats that used to be Republicans.

They dont give a shit if we have the Patriot Act, close Gitmo, torture, wage wars, have a public option, reform Wall street, etc. In other words your "real" Democrats dont support real Democratic values.

[pscot]

619. I've been voting Democrat since we sent JFK

to the Whitehouse. Who the fuck are you to tell me I'm not a real Democrat?

[RKP5637]

321. He's going to get a rude awakening in 2012. Here I don't know of any dems interested

in supporting him for 2012. I don't think he's going to win a 2012 election.

[MissDeeds]

333. Well said, JDP

Wish I could K&R your post.

[femrap]

366. Howard Dean comes

as close to an FDR imho. But if there is a threat that he'll 'rock the boat,' he'll simply be assassinated. As was all the other good guys.

TPTB are full of ruthless, sadistic evil.

We, The People need to form Cooperative Communities so to survive this Evil.

[Name removed]

390. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

445. +1

[Enthusiast]

174. If Obama is willing

to allow collective bargaining rights to be attacked right before our eyes then he is no Democrat anyway. He is, in fact, nothing more than a corporate approved continuation of the Bush Administration.

[Myrina]

228. +100

n/t

[KurtNYC]

271. a pacification program that dangles the "future" in front of us like a carrot

while leading us to Hell.

[MissDeeds]

334. +1000

[NorthCarolina]

381. But, but, but "it's a distraction"...... nt

[defendandprotect]

433. +1000% ---

[xphile]

545. At this point I'm not even sure surprise is in order. He had the chance to pass

EFCA and didn't bother to lift a finger to attempt to pass it. Clearly working people and their concerns does not resonate with him.

[uponit7771]

693. Another Obama = Bush bullshit ass'd post

[swilton]

250. Only if the incumbent president's party is weak to begin with

and never has so much been squandered by so few!

[ncpmd]

410. How is the Obama presidency not already weakening the Democratic party?

[defendandprotect]

440. .. and not only "weakening the Dem Party" .... but raised the GOP up from the ashes -- !!!

Remember that in 2008, the GOP was finished!!

[nashville_brook]

42. this is exactly the kind of failed politics that will ensure a challenge

[defendandprotect]

442. Agree --

but as we can see it's not coming from inside the already largely corporatized

Democratic Party which is quite telling, imo.

Think we need to look for democrats from outside the party who can run on the

Dem ticket -- strong anti-war candidates --

strong again on universal health care --



Btw, Biden has been running around for more than a year now calling for Israel

to attack Iran. Biden says, "Israel would be JUSTIFIED in attacking Iran" -- !!


Also better to avoid any candidates who have previously been pre-bribed and pre-owned

by corporations!


Maybe someone like Tom Hayden for VP?

[defendandprotect]

95. 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of W, and now 4 years of Obama -- are we waking up yet?

[danbee46]

119. It's worse than that.

This is much more than simply shoving his base aside. By his inaction he is shoving the working folks aside. That is unforgivable. If he doesn't publicly take a stand against the Wisconson GOP's elimination of collective bargaining rights I will not be voting for him again.

[defendandprotect]

448. "All that does harm to Labor is Treason" -- Abraham Lincoln

[Enthusiast]

643. Welcome to the DU. nt

[tpsbmam]

221. He's not "pushing aside" the left this time. He's disrespecting and downright undermining

the working people, the middle class, the unions that are so essential to having a middle class, Democrats of all varieties (not just the liberals), swing voters, even some moderate Republicans who are waking up to reality in Wisconsin. It's a big huge FUCK YOU to all Americans except his corporate cronies, his rich cronies and, of course, Republicans.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[yurbud]

341. he's not pandering to swing voters, he's pandering to swing money

Wall Street, transnational corporations, and trust fund babies who know the GOP can't fool enough of the people anymore.

[chill_wind]

422. Yep.

He's got a few billion to raise and it's got to come from somewhere. And it's not going to come from quite all the same places it did last time.

[appal_jack]

413. Not sure that 2012 is the time

Don't get me wrong, I am as furious at Obama and his 'team' as anyone on this thread. Nonetheless, I'll probably vote for Obama in 2012, but save my $$ and campaigning efforts for truly progressive local candidates.

This way, there may be some of those progressives advancing to the national stage in 2014 and beyond. That's cause for optimism.

I'd love for someone more pro-worker, pro-environment, and anti-corporate presidential candidate than Obama to mount a substantive and high-impact campaign in 2012, but I can't see such a campaign doing anything more than failing. Worse yet, it truly could usher in another republican sweep.

-app

[AlbertCat]

421. wouldn't vote for him no matter what he does.

And all he does is exactly what his rich white guy advisers tell Uncle Barack to do.

[GeorgiaPeach]

7. That's our Obama! He never fails to show his true colors in the end.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mnemosyne]

224. I here hes a MUSLIN!111!! n/t

[AlbertCat]

450. I here hes a MUSLIN!111!! n/t

That was a joke.... right?

[jefferson_dem]

524. This thread is full of "jokes".

Why single this one out?

[Mnemosyne]

600. Certainly was. I get sick of that crap. Anyone whose parent is a US citizen, is a citizen, period.

I hear that crap around this red area often. Education doesn't seem to work on many of these zombies. :hi:

[ChiciB1]

257. Trying To Think Of A GOOD Acronym For The Description For "Our Obama!"

Need to think a while on it!! As I see what I've been saying for waaaaaasaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long come to pass!!

THIS situation we have here in America IS DEFINITELY connected to HIS LACK OF LEADERSHIP!! IMHO!!

Go ahead, bring on the attacks I WON'T even let ANY of it bother me!! I realize my voice IS NOT GOING TO BE HEARD by almost EVERY SINGLE SINGLE ONE of the people that got elected to the THREE Branches of Government!!

DEMOCRATS have abandoned their very own and simply rolled over and LET THIS HAPPEN!

And yes... I'm SICK OF IT... but BLAME is EVERYWHERE!!

:puke: :nuke: :puke: :nuke: AND UTTER DISGUST!!!!

[bvar22]

384. But...but....but...Its ALL Joe Lieberman's fault!

"You just don't know how government works!"

"He doesn't have a Magic Wand!"

"It takes a LONG time to turn a big ship!"

"We didn't have the votes!" :cry:

"You didn't get a pony!"

"Its sensible and "pragmatic"!

"You want Palin!"

"Its Historic!"


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[Me.]

8. More Of That Hope We're To Believe In

[DirkGently]

9. Jesus. A "distraction" from what, exactly? THIS is what is happening to America, right now.

[nashville_brook]

47. we're "winning the future" -- haven't you heard?

[DirkGently]

51. A post Republican corporate-pocalyptic future, apparently.

[DirkGently]

52. dupe

[nashville_brook]

56. heheh...had a corporate-pocalyptic hiccup

[hay rick]

122. The punch line in the article.

Middle class jobs with decent pay and benefits for most people is clearly a relic of the past as far as this administration is concerned.

[Ghost Dog]

142. That's, precisely, the Plan. How else are you going to compete

with low-cost low-wage developing countries such as the BRICS?

[Lorien]

130. So the question has to be asked; who is "we"?

Goldman Sachs? The GOP? Big oil? The Insurance industry? Big Pharma? Wall Street? All of the above?

[tomp]

163. precisely. who is "we"? nt

[Enthusiast]

176. Nice. nt

[Abq_Sarah]

100. President Obama has a lot on his plate

And bigger fish to fry at the moment. He's responsible for an entire nation and if things were better, he probably would get involved. Right now, the internal affairs of Wisconsin have to be pretty low on his list of critical issues.

[Lorien]

131. He had plenty of time to tour Florida with his "Champion" Jeb Bush

so that theory doesn't fly.

[Enthusiast]

177. He always makes time

for the opposition. Our opposition, I'm not so sure they are his opposition.

[eridani]

150. I'll grant that for the sake of argument. Why, however, is he--

--stopping the FUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY from taking action.

[tomp]

164. even for the sake of argument i won't grant that premise.

what is it that obama is busier with that is more important than putting on his comfortable shoes, i.e., putting his money where his mouth is? he is obviously too busy shoveling money to the rich to be concerned about working people.

i hope his feet hurt.

[deutsey]

238. It isn't just WI...there are numerous northern states where GOP regimes

are applying a Shock Doctrine approach to implement their unpopular, anti-democratic (small "d") agenda.

[KurtNYC]

253. He should send an aid to Long John Silvers -- the POTUS should not do

his own cooking!

This isn't about WI since it is part of a national plan to gut the middle class in the name of being 'competitive.'

[swilton]

258. What is happening in Wisconsin IS the nation

and goes far beyond the internal affairs of any state - Wisconsin is seen as a litmus test for the future of the middle class in America. It is not only callous and insensitive to ignore the working class of this state - it undervalues the voice of the middle class across the nation....It also demonstrates (like the BP oil spill) that our leadership cannot visualize constituencies outside of the beltway. If this turns into the major movement that many progressive leaders suggest that it is, it will look very bad for Obama as being out of touch (insensitive) and also a very poor leader and manager.

[RKP5637]

344. Exactly!!! It is seen as a litmus test for the future of the middle class in America. It is even

more about this than unions. The union situation is just giving them a means to see how far they can push most Americans into serfdom and extremely low wages, and a low standard of living so they can compete with the world.

It is also a power trip by a bunch of border R sociopaths. What is it, something like 400 people control 50% of the wealth of the nation. The Obama administration is bought and paid for by the wealth of this country, the Obama administration is doing their bidding.

[defendandprotect]

451. +1000% ---

major hurdle is Democratic Party rock solid belief that Democratic voters

have "no place to go" -- !!

Sen. Bernie Sanders could run on a Dem Party ticket --

someone like Tom Hayden for VP? -- Two strong anti-war candidates!!

Pro-universal health care --

[nashville_brook]

574. +10000

[ChiciB1]

262. SORRY!!! What Is Going On In Wisconsin IS AMERICA!! It's "We The People" That

he is RESPONSIBLE for REPRESENTING!! We go ALL around the world promoting DEMOCRACY, where right here in this country OUR PEOPLE are being trampled upon!!!

What's ON HIS PLATE is what's ON MY PLATE, and MY PLATE is looking PISS POOR and EMPTY!!

[DirkGently]

265. You mean, Wisconsin, & the 15 or so other states where the same things are happening?

[Fearless]

305. +100000

[walldude]

269. BIgger fish to fry? The future of the American worker

is not a big fish? How about this is the biggest fish there is at the moment. Orca.

[myrna minx]

376. So the categorical destruction the middle class and the war on theAmerican Worker isn't a big fish?

Wow.

[Lucky 13]

402. PATHETIC response.

Unions are under attack in nearly 1/2 the country. This involves the rescinding of rights and a fiscal attack on the middle class. Don't fucking tell me he's too busy. Maybe he should look up from all that fellatio he's been performing on Republicans and take a look around.

[JDPriestly]

548. The entire nation can only get better when working people get

opportunities. The right to join and negotiate through a union is a prerequisite for things getting better.

[Robeson]

591. I'm assuming that was sarcasm.

[54anickel]

118. Democracy, it's such a messy and time consuming distraction. n/t

[Ghost Dog]

143. ..And clearly an irrelevant, entirely disposible distraction,

it is thought...

[54anickel]

636. GD!!!! How are you doing? Been a long time! Good to "see" you again!

:toast: :fistbump: :hi:

[jefferson_dem]

10. Recycling a week old story to smear the President.

Priceless.

They are correct, by the way. The last thing this movement needs right now is to have it be seen as a presidential operation, emanating from the West Wing.

[Denzil_DC]

17. OTOH, the first thing the Kochs and allies need is to make it all about Obama

Just like this OP and others on DU like it today are trying to do.

Unrec (again, and every time this dumb UNATTRIBUTED story surfaces).

[nashville_brook]

27. yeah, would sure hate to bring any sort of "big guns" to fight for american workers!

FAIL!

ha! i love saying that when it's so richly deserved.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

70. what are you implying?

[eridani]

144. That's ture. I don't think he should do a national tour or anything. However--

--he it would help if he'd make some strong statments supporting public workers from DC, and not interfere with other Dems who want to use party structure to organize.

[defendandprotect]

453. Obama made a "strong statement" -- he sent DNC supporters home from Wisconsin -- !!!

[eridani]

153. I agree--he shouldn't be making a grand tour himself. Howerer-

--why in bloody fucking HELL is he stopping the national Dems from acting?

[AlbertCat]

469. why in bloody fucking HELL is he stopping the national Dems

"He" isn't. His advisers are!

Which tells us who is in charge and who is NOT in charge.

[JDPriestly]

550. Sorry, but it is all about Obama. Did you watch the

legislator from Wisconsin who put this in perspective by admitting that the entire campaign against the unions is about getting ending union support for the Democrats and defeating Obama in 2012.

Defending unions starting in Wisconsin is Obama's biggest problem right now.

Obama has never been able to get his priorities right.

[nashville_brook]

21. no, actually this has been a major discussion at rallies this week, and came up

in other threads here today. people are rightly wondering where our president stands as we fight the battle of our lives. we have a right to know where he stands, and this article sheds some light on it.

if it hurts you that this puts Obama in a bad light, that's a good thing. it should hurt, because it's not just bad politics -- it's rank hypocrisy for someone who campaigned on "walking the picket line with American workers," should their organizing/collective bargaining rights be in danger.

[jefferson_dem]

25. The only "people" who are wondering...

are those who have not been paying attention...or don't want to.

It neither hurts me nor puts Obama in a bad light. Have you seen his poll numbers in Wisconsin since the WIUNION dust up?

[Denzil_DC]

28. You seem to assume I'm as tied up in a political personality as you appear to be

This article attributes nothing to Obama, despite the concerted efforts of some here to spin it that way. You don't want to know where Obama stands at all--every time his publicly stated position's quoted, it's fingers in the ears and LALALA.

Keep humping this meme. Think about who it damages most. Meanwhile ...

[Better Believe It]

22. You're right! Nothing should be done that might indicate President Obama supports working people.

[jefferson_dem]

30. Perhaps you should contact the SEIU chief and tell him he's wrong about the President.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/03/seiu-chief-obama-has-stepped-up-in-state-labor-fights.html

[readmoreoften]

37. Why? The rank-and-file know he's worthless. Whatever deal he cuts with a union pres is irrelevant.

If you think the head of a union is the opinion that counts, then you don't really know shit about being in a union.

[jefferson_dem]

48. The rank-in-file?

You mean the 85%+ of liberals and Dems who support Obama?

I wonder what kind of response you would get if you stepped into the WI capitol and started with your "Never mind Walker...Obama sucks" talking point.

[Kall]

140. Yeah, 85%...

Good thing hat 85% of "fucking retarded" liberals and Dems supported Obama so hard in 2010. The future for 2012 is so bright people are gonna have to wear shades with that level of base support. Oh, wait.

And let's not pretend the election had nothing to do with Obama. Dude got out and campaigned for it himself saying that it did.

[AlbertCat]

470. You mean the 85%+ of liberals and Dems who support Obama?

Wait... I thought it was 90%!

Which is it?

Better post that poll! Now! If you can find it.

[davidthegnome]

473. Interesting...

It is interesting to me that 85% of liberals support Obama, considering that his actions as President have demonstrated that he is right of center. I'm wondering where that poll originated - and precisely what was asked.

I'm seriously pissed off at him at this point - but I'll vote for him in 2012 as the lesser of two evils. Does that mean I support him? Perhaps, to an extent. I'd support him getting a second term rather than having the republican challenger win. I do not though, support the vast majority of his actions or most of his policies. If we get a Progressive challenger with the strength to win... which I think is all but impossible, well, in that I would vote progressive. That - is what I thought I was doing in 2008.

As I've said before, better a slap in the face than a bullet in the leg. That doesn't mean I have to enjoy it, support it, or keep quiet in my dissent though.

I had never been so proud of my Country and of my party as when Obama was elected in 2008. Now I have never been more ashamed - even when Bush was President, we knew damn well what to expect from him. I'll vote for him though - only - because there is no alternative.

[defendandprotect]

455. +1000% ... Democratic Party has been corporatized by DLC with Koch Funds ...

but Union heads can't be corrupted?

That's been going on for decades and more!!

[Better Believe It]

61. Perhaps she also wants a gov't appointment from Obama like SEIU President Emeritus Andy Stern.

President Obama appointed Stern to a government jobs commission that won't do anything to create jobs but it's good p.r.!

[jefferson_dem]

67. So you have big problems with the Democratic president and two labor union presidents...

Why stop there? Who else on "our side" would you like to smear?

[nashville_brook]

112. heh heh -- no ones falling for this "when did you stop beating your wife" stuff

but carry on...it's cute. reminds me of the way young republicans used to argue after poly sci classes in college.

[jefferson_dem]

161. If someone admitted to beating his wife, I would (among other things), want to know how long

he had been doing it.

In those debates with Republicans, did you spend time lambasting Democrats as you are doing here?

[Better Believe It]

299. It's a corporate dominated commission with 23 members. For window dressing, 2 from labor are on it.

[defendandprotect]

456. Do you think Obama is being smeared here?

Do you really think that union members are incorruptible?

If you were a union leader would you support a president who was not defending

the right to collective bargaining? Really?




Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[nashville_brook]

111. ding ding ding! we have a winnah!

[walldude]

264. Well, perhaps, just perhaps, you should not use the SEIU's

statement that "We THINK the Administration has stepped up" as a defacto statement of support. "We think they have" is not the same as "They have". No matter how much you want to believe that.

I notice Obama got up this morning and jumped out there with his "stepped up support" :eyes:

[DirkGently]

24. Hard to imagine it being viewed that way at this late stage. More like his "wait for the end of the

battle, then-declare-victory" Egypt strategy.

[flamingdem]

55. exactly, I agree this story is crap and just serves to divide Democrats

Obama is 100% with the Unions as is logical, and anyone who doesn't see that is falling for this bs being pushed to divide us.

[jefferson_dem]

58. Of course he's with the unions.

This whole thing is just stupid. It's like trying to rationalize with the irrational.

[flamingdem]

64. The Unions are not critisizing Obama, they know he's got their back

and needs them so duh I say.

I question the analytical ability of people when they fall for this kind of anti-Obama inuendo.

What they don't connect is that to be anti-Obama is to be anti-Union. I think the unions get it.

[nashville_brook]

76. ah, the "anti-Obama" charge. it never gets old!

[flamingdem]

79. GIVE ME EVIDENCE THAT OBAMA IS ANTI-UNION, ANTI-PROTESTS!

I call bs and shortsightedness

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JDPriestly]

136. How about the fact that he signed that devastating trade agreement

(yes, yet another one) with South Korea.

So now South Korea can compete even more easily for American jobs, import stuff at bargain prices that nobody can afford because nobody has a job in the US.

[defendandprotect]

458. +1000%

[rhett o rick]

573. His Chief of Staff is a fucking CEO. nm

[Bluebear]

605. BIGMOUTH

[AlbertCat]

475. Of course he's with the unions.

Of course!

Like he was for the Public Option!
For ending both wars!
for ending the Bush tax cuts!

Why worry?

[sabrina 1]

80. Really? So, exactly when does the president who we elected

because he CLAIMED to be on our side, finally take a stand IN THE PRESENT?? He seems to have this obsession with pushing everything 'into the future' War Crimes?? We have to move forward, we can't be distracted, we have things to do!! WHAT THINGS?? Taking care of Wall St??

Stop with the excuses, no one's buying them anymore. The American people have been robbed, of their rights, of their money, or their jobs of their homes and he's planning to try to make them pay for the gambling debts of his buddies at Goldman Sachs.

Well, guess what, the people are finally saying 'enough'!!

The reason he isn't in Wisc is clear. Only those who do not want to see why, don't see it.

He is on the side of the Corporations and the Corps don't like Unions, and if we had a real, Progressive President who would go and stand with the people, AS HE PROMISED TO DO (although Obama's promises have about as much value as a rock at this point) he would be in Wisc. and it WOULD Make a difference. But the difference he wants to make is not what the people want, so just accept it. The hope and change thing was good PR, it got him elected, but now it's over.

This is a unique period in our history. Things are more clear to people now than they have been for a long time.

The excuses you come up have grown old. We heard them when we wanted impeachment ON the table. Couldn't do that, we had to 'look forward, we had things to do'. Into the future again!! :eyes:

So, what exactly got done since 4 years ago? Did the wars stop, did torture stop, did corrupt Wall St bankers get indicted, have they save SS from the assault of Big Business, where are the jobs, have they raised taxes on the rich, did they stop offshore drilling, get a real HC bill passed??? NO? So, we may as well have at least done something useful, like hold the war criminals accountable. It was all lies and excuses. They were PROTECTING the war criminals.

Now, other countries are going to get them for us. That was inevitable. This country kidnapped and tortured and killed many citizens of other countries, and those countries and their loved ones want justice. And they WILL get it, only not here, because we are too busy thinking about some mythical future, when what we should be doing is dealing with the reality of the PRESENT.

Sick of it, like everyone else! Don't give me any more of these lame, old excuses. After six years of hearing the same old talking points about some 'future' myth, we are now IN THAT FUTURE and it doesn't look so good at all.

[nashville_brook]

116. +100000000000000000000000

[JDPriestly]

137. Excellent post, sabrina 1

[PADemD]

152. Another +100000000000000000000000

[cascadiance]

156. plus....

∞!

[Enthusiast]

181. PLUS FUCKING ONE!

"So, what exactly got done since 4 years ago? Did the wars stop, did torture stop, did corrupt Wall St bankers get indicted, have they save SS from the assault of Big Business, where are the jobs, have they raised taxes on the rich, did they stop offshore drilling, get a real HC bill passed??? NO? So, we may as well have at least done something useful, like hold the war criminals accountable. It was all lies and excuses. They were PROTECTING the war criminals."

[jefferson_dem]

191. HaHa.

Excuses = Doses of reality. Sorry they make you ill.

[Divernan]

240. If you & yours weren't scared shitless of a primary challenge

and if you are so sure, as you claim, that damage from such a challenge would be "miniscule", you wouldn't be so desperately posting here. You remind me of some poor Dutch kid trying to stop 20 leaks in the dike, i.e,. criticisms of Obama's inactions on so many different issues, with just one finger.

[liberation]

583. That's hilarious, keep pissing on your own base in order to earn votes

what a "wining" strategy, it worked wonders in 2010... oh, wait.

LOL. Keep laughing.

[tpsbmam]

230. Oh hell yeah -- righteous rant!! nt

[Myrina]

232. Best.Post.Ever!!!

:applause: :applause:

[KurtNYC]

268. Progress delayed is progress denied. n/t

[appal_jack]

423. + 1000000000000000000000 n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

478. DITTO!!!!!!!!!

[uponit7771]

694. Corporations paid out of the ass to get KKKons in office but Obama is "for" them? Hate reality much?

[Marr]

107. Actually, the President could lend this thing much more coverage,

and something that could harm the Republican Party on a national level, making it more likely these individual governors would back down. That's if... y'know... he actually wanted to help teachers and other state employees.

[Enthusiast]

183. This is the point. The media

can ignore the massive protests but they would be forced to cover them if Obama made an appearance or voiced his support. But the same was true on a number of issues. Obama doesn't appear to care about "we the people" in the least.

[JDPriestly]

135. He did not have to silence the DNC.

[defendandprotect]

460. +1000% --

[tomp]

165. he smears himself by siding with the rich in every case.

and he doesn't appear to mind meddling in state elections to put his weight behind the more centrist candidates.

[nashville_brook]

575. yep!

[tavalon]

188. At this point, tonight, March 10th (3:41 am), there is no one anywhere

who would think this was born in the White House. And actually, as of the middle of the day today, he's going to need to fish out those comfy shoes or his Presidential career is over. Scott Walker's is for sure and a number of other prominent Repubs in that state and I really don't want this to spread to our President, but it will. So, since I'm a nightshifter, I will sleep through the speech that is being written right now (3:44am) and will be given by President Obama in Madison at around 3pm.

Luckily, I'll be able to see it when I get up in the afternoon. I hope his speech writers are on their best game tonight. They will need to be because they are playing catch up or rather, follow the leader (that leader being the Wisconsin workers) when that leader ought to have been President Obama. To keep up the sporting metaphors, this is his last chance to score in this game, so those shoes better be damn comfortable.

If I'm wrong, you win. If I'm right, we all win. So, it looks to me like you just got yourself a win/win!

[VoteProgressive]

217. I have been here a short time but....

Do you ever not disagree with Obama issues?

[jefferson_dem]

220. Yes.

Do you ever agree with him on issues?

[VoteProgressive]

259. Wow, snarky reply and I am sure never read any of my posts. Nice.

[AlbertCat]

463. Recycling a week old story to smear the President. Priceless.

Yeah... who cares what happened a WHOLE WEEK ago, dude? Like... I don't even care what happened this morning!


You are a troll and an idiot. God, are your arguments lame and completely missing the point. So far you've claimed that 90% of some fictitious faction called "real Democrats" approve of Obama, that we are all racists for disapproving, and that what happened a few days ago is irrelevant today.

Are you 12? Is your corporate daddy telling you what to type? Go back to debating class.... you've learn nothing.

[BanzaiBonnie]

12. Washington staff are soooooooo full of themselves

These guys are a bunch of egotistical boobs.

[AlbertCat]

481. These guys are a bunch of egotistical boobs.

DC is in a bubble.... a conservative bubble, that might as well be on Mars.


Obama could break this bubble and attach DC to the rest of the country and its people.... if he would. This Union busting epidemic is a perfect opportunity. But the milquetoast coward might have to take a stand on something to do so.

Another squandered opportunity... like with huge majorities in the House and Senate. What a loser!

[Ramulux]

13. I remember getting that email from the DNC

and being very confused. I knew that they had done it without the blessing of the white house and that they would get shit for it. Pretty fucking pathetic move on Obama's part.

[nashville_brook]

36. this is exactly the kind of state-level interference that is kneecapping our party

it's why we lost 2010, and why we'll likely lose 2012 if we can't get these interlopers out of state/local struggles.

[ProSense]

15. Here is what

they did: OFA Wisconsin and the DNC.

President Obama's statement (Feb. 16):

"Some of what I've heard coming out of Wisconsin, where you're just making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally seems like more of an assault on unions. And I think it's very important for us to understand that public employees, they're our neighbors, they're our friends. These are folks who are teachers and they're firefighters and they're social workers and they're police officers.

"They make a lot of sacrifices and make a big contribution. And I think it's important not to vilify them or to suggest that somehow all these budget problems are due to public employees."

DNC chairman: Wisconsin governor waging war on public workers


VP Biden's statement (Feb 24):

"Public employees are not the problem. The problem goes much deeper...We are going to see the economic conditions that they (Republicans) created used as an excuse to fundamentally go after the social agenda that the far right has been trying to accomplish for a long time."

Secretary Solis' statement (Feb. 26):

I’ve been following the developments in Wisconsin, and Ohio, and many other states across the country.

<...>

And we’ve seen our brothers and sisters in the public employees unions willing to give there share, and to negotiate in good faith to help their states get through tough times.

But the governors in Wisconsin and Ohio aren’t just asking workers to tighten their belts, they’re demanding that they give up their uniquely American rights as workers.

<...>

All these workers want is the opportunity to sit down at the table, like grown ups, and work together to solve problems.

That’s what collective bargaining is all about.

Remarks by the President and the Vice President to the National Governors Association (Feb. 28)

<...>

Those of you who are in this room obviously are on the front lines of this budget debate. As the Recovery Act funds that saw through many states over the last two years are phasing out -- and it is undeniable that the Recovery Act helped every single state represented in this room manage your budgets, whether you admit it or not -- you face some very tough choices at this point on everything from schools to prisons to pensions.

I also know that many of you are making decisions regarding your public workforces, and I know how difficult that can be. I recently froze the salaries of federal employees for two years. It wasn’t something that I wanted to do, but I did it because of the very tough fiscal situation that we’re in.

So I believe that everybody should be prepared to give up something in order to solve our budget challenges, and I think most public servants agree with that. Democrats and Republicans agree with that. In fact, many public employees in your respective states have already agreed to cuts.

But let me also say this: I don’t think it does anybody any good when public employees are denigrated or vilified or their rights are infringed upon. We need to attract the best and the brightest to public service. These times demand it. We’re not going to attract the best teachers for our kids, for example, if they only make a fraction of what other professionals make. We’re not going to convince the bravest Americans to put their lives on the line as police officers or firefighters if we don’t properly reward that bravery.

So, yes, we need a conversation about pensions and Medicare and Medicaid and other promises that we’ve made as a nation. And those will be tough conversations, but necessary conservations. As we make these decisions about our budget going forward, though, I believe that everyone should be at the table and that the concept of shared sacrifice should prevail. If all the pain is borne by only one group -- whether it’s workers, or seniors, or the poor -- while the wealthiest among us get to keep or get more tax breaks, we’re not doing the right thing. I think that’s something that Democrats and Republicans should be able to agree on.

<...>

Summary: Don't vilify public employees; public service is vital; teachers are underpaid; you can't put the burden on workers, seniors and the poor while supporting tax cuts for the rich.

Sec. Hilda Solis: At the Table

The President is handling collective bargaining issues at the federal level.

[JDPriestly]

138. I just noticed something about Obama's statement. He misses

a really essential point when he says, "And I think it's very important for us to understand that public employees, they're our neighbors, they're our friends. These are folks who are teachers and they're firefighters and they're social workers and they're police officers."

The point he misses? Public employees are not just his neighbors and friends. He is one of them.

If Obama were smart, he would point out that he himself is a public employee. He would point out that the governor of Minnesota, the governor of Michigan, and all of the members of Congress are all public employees.

Congress gets to vote on the salaries, working conditions and budget for members of Congress. Why shouldn't other government employees have at least a voice, a chance to discuss their salaries, working conditions and budget?

Obama really misses the point when it comes to what is at stake here. He just doesn't get it. Just like he doesn't get what happened on Wall Street, the gambling that Wall Street did and is still doing with the future of our country, of generations to come, the environment and everything else that Obama's irresponsible friends on Wall Street are gambling away in the markets -- while blaming America's teachers and other public servants for budget deficits. How can he miss the obvious?

[Enthusiast]

185. I disagree.

"Obama really misses the point when it comes to what is at stake here. He just doesn't get it. Just like he doesn't get what happened on Wall Street, the gambling that Wall Street did and is still doing with the future of our country, of generations to come, the environment and everything else that Obama's irresponsible friends on Wall Street are gambling away in the markets -- while blaming America's teachers and other public servants for budget deficits. How can he miss the obvious?"

He gets it! He isn't missing anything so obvious. He isn't brain dead. He gets it! I've had enough of Obama playing dumb.

[joeunderdog]

387. I'm a Public Employee.

And I call myself a Working Class American. Nothing more. Nothing less.

We should ONLY be referred to Working Class Americans because we are just like everyone else trying to earn a living despite the odds. Just like everyone else. NO special distinction. No label to exploit.

[defendandprotect]

464. +1000% -- but is it a sin of omission ... ?

or is Obama saying who he really is?

[eridani]

155. The specific accusation in the OP was not any of these things. If was

--that Obama blocked DNC from national, coordinated ORGANIZING. Do you have something to counter that specifically? A supportive statement by Kaine isn't it.

[woo me with science]

212. +10000 nt

[bread_and_roses]

160. And the single actual action in the above? Freezing the salaries. And enough of this "shared"

sacrifice. Workers and the poor have already "sacrificed" on the alter of GS et al - we're about "shared" (or is that sheared?) right down to the bone - we did our "share" already, or hasn't he noticed?

As for his "freeze" - the only actual action mentioned above - it's a blatant political sop to the opponents who are bent on our (and his) destruction. And provides ideological support to the notion that it is workers who must pay for the destruction of the economy by the Oligarchs.

Follow the actions. We know he talks pretty already.

edit: typo

[woo me with science]

215. "Follow the actions. We know he talks pretty already."

Thank you.

[jefferson_dem]

193. C'mon now. Just when the Obama/Democrat smear campaign was getting rolling...

...you go and introduce reality-based information.

[Name removed]

300. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlbertCat]

485. you go and introduce reality-based information.

Unlike your "90% approval" crap?

[jefferson_dem]

578. GALLUP says 88% of Dems approve of the job Obama is doing.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/125345/obama-approval-polarized-first-year-president.aspx

What exactly about that, as evidence for my claim, is crap? I'll await your response but rest assured...you'll lose.

[NorthCarolina]

556. Reinforcements on this thread have finally arrived

Congrats.

[jefferson_dem]

581. Reinforcements?

What are you talking about? Oh...this is simply another manifestation of your simpleton "fer us or again us" mentality.

Actually, I was meaning to ask ... since you have declared yourself to be "the decider" of all things partisan purity, could you please provide a list of "real Democrats"? I would rather not be forced to wait for your cue and judgment every single time. Thanks in advance.

[NorthCarolina]

606. Actually, I was simply starting to feel a little bad for you

having to tackle this particular thread alone.

[jefferson_dem]

609. No worries...

It's all in good fun. I enjoy toying around with my DU friends. Have a nice evening. :hi:

[olegramps]

218. Prosense no one I know doesn't think he gives fine speeches:

I think that the general perception on this board is: "Where's the Beef?" Many are of the opinion that he is too quick to negotiate to get the deal done and has left too much on the table. I am of the opinion that in regard to health care and financial reform there were compromises that were not necessary or at least should not have been made without a strong fight.

Most importantly, I am of the opinion that he has failed to forcibly take the message to the people of the nation and has failed to make it perfectly clear that there are better solutions than what was being offered by the opposition. He could have made it clear that those who resisted significant reforms were not representing the interest of their constituents, but corporate greed.

[hatrack]

242. So, you can cite exactly TWO statements from the President, one 10 days ago, the other 22 days ago .

Things have changed a bit since he made these two statements - in Wisconsin, in Ohio, in Indiana, in Idaho, in Tennessee, in Michigan.

Perhaps he should try harder to keep up with the accelerating pace of the political destruction of public employee unions.

Perhaps you should as well.

[Name removed]

374. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlbertCat]

488. So, you can cite exactly TWO statements from the President, one 10 days ago, the other 22 days ago .

Yeah!

Like ol' Jefferson_dem says.... bringing up things a week (or more) old???? How useless!

Right Jeffie_dem? Right?

[WhiteTara]

18. Sounds like it's time to make the events

happen in Washington. Then we will see exactly where he is and what we have to do. Maybe spend the rest of our lives in front of the WH, just like the woman who has been there since 1980 something demanding that there be no more nukes. Hopefully there will be more than one woman living in front of the WH or we may be in deep trouble.

Bring your tent this time.

[nashville_brook]

23. i think you've got a good point here...if it doesn't happen in DC, it doesn't exist to them

[tomp]

171. you got it! nt

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Newest Reality]

20. So, Obama is not with us as we stand-up and protest?

Instead, we are subjected to WTF ... or win the future as if we need to enter a lottery or we have no future assured to us. WTF? Clearly, we are being told to get in line and hope for some low-paying jobs with no benefits so that we can compete to get back what has been taken from us? It's not going to happen. That's just a ruse made of buzz-words and a package of hype to let us down easy into a 3-rd World future.

Historically, we have a moment of import here. The people are rising up and their President and his staff seem to want no part in that. It tells all.

[DirkGently]

34. He'll be along after we win, I imagine. Less risky, you see.

[Peregrine Took]

401. Amen! The adjunct professor waiting for the wind to blow. n/t

[Peregrine Took]

405. They all look like they are serious need of some Ex Lax. n/t

[DirkGently]

438. Ouch. But, yeah. Exactly.

[ClarkUSA]

26. This was about message control before a SOTU, so conflating it to mean anything else is garbage.

[nashville_brook]

32. ha! this would be more persuasive if Obama actually supported American workers, in words or actions.

any old time he wants to triangulate this criticism off the table, he's welcome to do it. all he has to do is get out there and fight for the workers.

[ClarkUSA]

69. LAT:"Obama, speaking out on Wisconsin labor standoff, says public employees should not lose rights"

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-wisconsin-unions-20110228,0,5323610,print.story

I guess you are now persuaded. Or are you going to move the goalpost? Let me guess... :eyes:

[nashville_brook]

81. hahaha! one passing sentence at a conference -- FEEL THE HEAT!

[ClarkUSA]

86. Move that goalpost... oh, and here's are more statements he made from his WI public radio interview

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=613321&mesg_id=613321

Feel free to discount this instance, too. That's what you'll do, I can predict, even after you've said you would be"persuaded". :eyes:

[nashville_brook]

117. don't knock yourself out compiling all those "statements" of support!

it can be exhausting...finding...all two of them.

[sabrina 1]

370. We didn't vote for the Orwellian 'message control'

we got from Republicans, we voted AGAINST IT! Remember?

We voted for 'change'. Too bad we were not told what that actually meant. A change of face for the corporations is not what we thought it meant.

Right before the SOTU address was exactly the time to STAND UP FOR THE PEOPLE!

[defendandprotect]

466. +1000% --

[inna]

29. "David Plouffe succeeded David Axelrod as communications chief" - LOL, LOL!

Is this for real? :claps hands: I guess I should be checking political news more often. Looks like Obama inherited the worst (in personnel or ideas) from ALL the three most recent administrations, and working hard to out-conservative them all.

[nashville_brook]

53. running into the jaws of defeat.

[upi402]

31. comfortable shoes that Clinton used to kick unions in the genitals?

Obama is a Clinton Republican. Always was. People who were duped aren't frustrating. But people who support this guy are infuriating.

[readmoreoften]

38. +1

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[upi402]

65. We suffer under NAFTA and GATT and the Telecommunications Act now

Shall we just move along like good little worker bees?
You need to pay attention. Republicans in the Democratic Party are still Republicans. We suffer their programs to this day. You need to get over that hurdle in your thinking.

It's "bullshit" to think that corporatists draw the ethical line at party boundaries. Follow the money and get past the 'hurray for OUR team' illusion.

[Enthusiast]

190. The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.

This is how the FAR RIGHT has achieved their legislative agenda -using actors that play the role of left wing presidents.

The blow job, accusations of "wag the dog", the 24/7 criticism of Clinton and everything else between, was just part of a huge smoke screen designed to distract us from the true issues. We are in the middle of a replay that is working to perfection. Mission (almost) accomplished.

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

468. Bill Clinton was a founder of the corporate DLC -- so is Hillary ... that's Koch Bros. $$$ ---

We couldn't be more aware that the trade agreements have sucked jobs out

of America --










Right Wing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[nashville_brook]

516. well, that explains a lot...starting with Glass-Steagall

[defendandprotect]

551. Just came upon that info last week -- someone had posted it here at DU ....

evidently a long time ago -- and last week again, but thread dropped immediately!!

Someone else caught it and told me about it!!

Amazing -- now how could it be that DU didn't have that info?



:)

[inna]

50. ahem, Clinton starts to look like a raging commie compared to Obama.

[nashville_brook]

72. +1

[EFerrari]

78. Not to trade unionists in Honduras and Haiti. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

40. Our govt. is run by soulless yuppies.

Doesn't matter what party, it just seems to attract these career power-brokers. They are completely without a sense of love or history for this world. They are technocrats.

[RagAss]

41. BINGO... This Thread is Over !!!!!

[JVS]

151. Yup.

[Evoman]

474. Goddamn right! Ever read Voltaire's Bastards? Sums up these jack offs perfectly.

[EndElectoral]

43. If Obama doesn't start "winning the present", he ain't gonna be around for any "future."

[nashville_brook]

45. +10000

[Blue_In_AK]

68. Great minds think alike.

I posted almost the exact words below.

[htuttle]

44. Sorry dude, but we're rewriting the script

Do try to keep up, now.

[flamingdem]

57. FOR ONE MOMENT du was untied, now the attack Obama crowd is back in vogue nt

[nashville_brook]

71. UNTIE DU!

[jefferson_dem]

75. Solidarity!

Forever! :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingdem]

110. Gosh well I hope I didn't hurt his feelings! nt

[nashville_brook]

125. her feelings, actually. Nashville Brook, that's me, is a chick...

just in case you'd like to know who's been handing you your

[nashville_brook]

124. that's about the weirdest thing anyone has ever said to a non-sequitor

[Lorien]

133. Personal attack . Read the rules.

[QC]

284. SOLIDATIRY!

[Name removed]

411. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

642. UFICANATE!!!

[bowens43]

170. Obama left the Democrats, we didn't leave him.

I am so sick of the Obama apologists.
How long does he have to stomp your head before you admit he's not dancing with you?

[cantbeserious]

179. + 1,000,000 - So Very True!

eom

[tomp]

173. what moment was that? long-time obama opponent here. nt

[defendandprotect]

471. So true -- we make up the stories and then we use them to attack him -- !! ????

[glinda]

59. Obama is not living in reality anymore. He has drunk the kool-aid.

[defendandprotect]

94. The question is, are WE "living in reality" now -- do we fully understdand what's going on?

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillwaiting]

256. +1

[dorkulon]

60. Winning!

...the future?

[DirkGently]

63. Somebody's sure drinking some Tiger Blood in D.C.

[Blue_In_AK]

62. If they don't start winning the present,

they're going to lose the future for sure. This administration is not standing up for the middle class and hasn't since the beginning. My husband is talking about leaving the country. I want to stay and fight, but I'm getting too old for this stuff.

[ClarkUSA]

73. Does the President need to issue another statement?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x600240

[grahamhgreen]

87. Every single hour of every single day. Or is he too busy hosting a bullying summit?

http://www.gayapolis.com/news/artdisplay.php?artid=7332

[ClarkUSA]

97. Funny how not one labor leader has complained about how President Obama has handled things.

Quite the opposite.

But I suppose you know better than they do how to handle these matters. :sarcasm:

[libmom74]

154. Here is a what a real

leader says and does:

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred." FDR

[grahamhgreen]

329. Obviously, the progressives in our party do know better how to handle these matters and the proof is

we lost in WI.

Yet another loss that we could easily have won!

But thank you for listening!

[hatrack]

245. It's your choice - the Bold February 16th Statement or the Devastating February 28th Statement!

It's like a tasty all-you-can-eat buffet of bland remonstrance - featuring more than ONE item to pick from!

[kurtzapril4]

533. I had a mouthful of wine when I read that.

Do you know how much it hurts when wine comes out your nose? Thankee! LOL!!

[DirkGently]

74. Stay. THEY can leave.

[nashville_brook]

114. there's better cars in UK -- :)

[nashville_brook]

77. Vancouver!

[Blue_In_AK]

102. I always thought Alaska should be part of the Yukon Territory anyway.

:) It just doesn't make sense for us to be part of the United States. About as much sense as Mexico being part of Quebec.

[ArcticFox]

83. The future ain't gonna be worth fighting for

You don't win tomorrow's battle by putting your troops up for slaughter today. No, before you can even fight for the future, you need to survive til then.

[nashville_brook]

89. ain't that the truth -- they're stealing the polis out from under us.

job by job. foreclosure by foreclosure.

[grahamhgreen]

85. Even the defenders should now admit he needs to get to WI.

[JJW]

90. "Win the future"

is just down right disgustingly pathetic.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

92. WAIT -- We haven't realized that corporate power over Dem Party has silenced them?

This is a SURPRISE to us --- ?

We haven't realized that the Dem Party has been largely mute in response

to the GOP on every issue?

We all understand that corporate money has put elected officials in office who

aren't working for us --

And that includes buying their silence --






The Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[HEyHEY]

96. More white guys in suits. God damn/

[tcaudilllg]

99. Let's petition for their resignation.

They have no future in the Democratic Party.

[Unvanguard]

101. Wait, for real? Are they blind, deaf, and dumb?

:eyes:

[Dappleganger]

103. Whose side are you on??

Not mine, that's for DAMN sure!

[Marr]

104. I could not be less interested in Obama's reelection.

I'll be working at the local and state level for populist Democrats, but Obama and these other Wall Street butlers can flap in the wind for all I care. He's actually worse than a Republican in many ways. A Republican would never be able to attack things like Social Security or Medicare under the guise of "compromise".

[MadHound]

105. A sad but predictable statement.

Obama runs from virtually any fight, that is unless it is a fight against his nominal allies on the left. Then he engages full force to try and quash them.

[Hubert Flottz]

108. I see five voters standing there in that picture.

Those five guys might look tough, but they will all be groveling and begging for votes next year.

[54anickel]

113. F*#$%R!!!

[slay]

115. They look like they should all be working at Wolfram and Hart

Evil fuckers. WE got Obama elected and what did we get - more of the same old crap!

[JJW]

120. These rats

will be jumping off the Titanic in 2012.

[Beaverhausen]

121. They didn't want OFA- Organizing for America- to be involved

Way to take these few paragraphs out of a long story to make Obama look bad. Hey, at least you admitted this was a week old.

[nashville_brook]

123. yeah, they don't want Obama associated with known protestors

that's the gist of it. angrily called them down. can't be seen on any picket lines or anything unseemly like that.

[JoseGaspar]

126. What a bunch of tools...

They are almost funny.

The Republicans are throwing everything but the kitchen sink into this struggle and the Democrats contribute... what? Words instead of deeds... and very few words at that. There will be a few words now, though... "Don't strike... sign recall petitions and go home."

The mining company has taken over Wisconsin and they are trucking in gun thugs. Meanwhile the Private Equity Fund in the picture is irritated that this is all a "distraction", taking attention away from really important things (mergers? acquisitions?).

And then there is Obama, who enabled this entire right-wing mobilization by implying one thing and being another, and he's not interested. He's bored

Maybe he can send somebody to tell the Canadians that he isn't serious about changing NAFTA, again... or somethin'.

Not to worry though... WE are winning.

Damn, you couldn't sell this screenplay.

[JoseGaspar]

127. Delete...

... repeat.

[JDPriestly]

128. I just watched "Inside Job" again tonight -- the DVD version this time.

My advice to DUers: If you haven't seen it, watch it as soon as you possibly can. If you didn't understand it, keep watching it until you do.

Obama is not our president. He is Wall Street's president.

And if you don't think I'm right, you need to watch "Inside Job" a few more times. And if you still don't get it, watch Michael Moore's movie about Capitalism, a Love Story.

Obama's every move is choreographed by Wall Street and the defense industry.

[Lorien]

134. +1. nt

[HughBeaumont]

168. Just ordered it.

However, let's not get deluded into the thinking of "not voting" or "they're all the same". We're witnessing grave evidence that the alternative is, indeed, far, FAR worse.

Yes, this president is a caving Chi-school Kool-aid drinker who still believes for whatever fucked up reason that Trickle-Down works, but we still need to pave the way for better Democrats . . . if there are any out there. Sitting on the sidelines and not voting gets you Theocrat Fascists that make Bewsh II look positively Nixon-ish.

It's a game that we're only going to win by identifying the true enemy - the industrial/capitalist scumfucks that run this bitch in behind-the-scenes dictatorial fashion in the first place. Both parties are compromised economically, but not socially. That's the apparent difference.

[Mnemosyne]

233. I have it for tonight, JD. Has your BP gone down yet? I'm expecting to

go ballistic when I watch. Thanks for the advice, already planning a re-watch. :hi:

[dotymed]

255. I will order it from net-flix today.

I watched GASLAND, last night and I am astonished at how openly, America, has become a banana republic. Completely corporate owned, recognized by millions (mostly because they have experienced it) as such, yet WE do not take to the streets.
It seems our ONLY alternative is to keep our heads down and attempt to pass ourselves off as a part of the system. Without unity and support of the millions who have become chattel, the few who will (at least) point this out, are labeled troublemakers, unstable,etc...
Their plans are working perfectly.

[KoKo]

310. It's excellent....makes the whole Wall St./Bankster. Ponzi/Crookery easier to understand...

for the average person.

[defendandprotect]

499. Did you rent it? Don't think my library has it yet?

How are you feeling about capitalism now?

[MilesColtrane]

141. The New York Times would never lie to us.

It must be true.

[JoseGaspar]

145. You are absolutely right... The NYT is lying.

The White House staff is not angry or irritated. They are deeply sad.... so sad that they have slipped into silence. If only there was something they could do...

If only they had power... like Republicans.

Feel better?

[Major Hogwash]

146. Of course not, Judy Miller didn't know she was lying when she was lying, and Rumsfeld didn't know

what he didn't know. If he knew he wasn't sure he knew, but he knew that he didn't know what he didn't know.

And the obfuscation continued until Obama was in the White House.
But, that's not how all of these Obama bashers see it.

We already know what we know.
It's not like we're dumb or something.
It's not like we can't see how Fake News would love to show an angry black man on tv and say, "see, there's an angry black man who is the President, hide your children."

There's an old saying --
A strong wind can snap a magnificent oak tree in half, but the reeds always bend so they can be around tomorrow.

[eilen]

205. Sweetheart there is only American that I know of who

is afraid of an angry Obama and he isn't a republican, his name is Bradley Manning.

[Major Hogwash]

429. Hahahaha!!!!! You called me sweetheart!

I saw Amy Pouler on Dave Letterman's show that night!
When she said that if you wanted to piss someone off, just call them sweetheart.

LoL

It doesn't bother me though! I need all the affection I can get!

LoL

The situation with Bradley Manning is bad. I have no idea why the military is doing that to him. He hasn't had a trial yet, so I don't think the solitary confinement is legal.
But, I can't stop it.
I can't get Bradley Manning out of that situation.
I don't know what the hell he did, or what he might have done to warrant him being held in solitary confinement for that long.
I'm being honest here, there's nothing I can do for him.

[eilen]

671. LOL, I wasn't trying to piss you off..

I call everyone Sweetheart (I'm not from the South). In upstate NY it is a term of affection still.

I call lots of patients sweetheart because I am horrible with names. It is a no-no, supposedly disrespectful but I don't mean it that way.

thanks for the laugh! and for your honesty.

[Chris_Texas]

149. Reality check time guys: Obama works for the same folks they all work for

His JOB, just as it was Bush's job, and Clinton's job, is to give the people who own this country whatever they want.

[swilton]

246. And he does it with such finnesse!

We can't criticize an incumbent Democratic President because it might hurt his reelection chances - regardless that such a reelection would ensure implementation of the GOP's dream agenda.

[KurtNYC]

298. and pacify us with nice speeches about "hope" and "future" n/t

[cascadiance]

157. Obama, I think you need to listen to FDR's speech on ROYALISTS! You identify TOO MUCH WITH THEM!

DAMNIT!

[Skidmore]

158. How about calling and emailing the WH about this?

Let them know we are paying attention. I did and sent them the link wanting to know why I should even be reading such an item.

[jefferson_dem]

198. You know the write-up in the OP is a week old, right?

[Skidmore]

199. I don't care...they still need to hear from us.

[StandingInLeftField]

208. And your point is?

:shrug:

[jefferson_dem]

209. That the write-up in the OP is a week old.

I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

[Lucky 13]

414. Please tell me how I can identify an articles expiration date. I can't seem to find that anywhere.

He was wrong a week ago and he's wrong today. People are wondering why he hasn't said/done jack shit about Wisconsin and this article explains why.

[chill_wind]

304. And so are the Obama Statements (all two of them)

But they do get recycled several times a day every day, because stale bread is all there is to work with.

[ChiciB1]

267. Pray Tell?? HOW MANY TIMES Have We Already Signed Petitions, Made Calls & Done

almost everything else to get their attention?? It hasn't worked so far and I don't think it's going to work ONE MORE TIME!!

THEY aren't on the side of "we the people," that's how I SEE it!

[barbtries]

159. they're just plain wrong.

the future lies with the people.

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

201. Now that's productive.

Buh bye.

[sendero]

167. The Obama administration...

.... collectively grabbing their ankles, as usual.

[xchrom]

169. Recommend

[cantbeserious]

178. All The President's Men - Sure Speaks Volumes About The President

eom

[cantbeserious]

180. Chris Hedges Main Point In Death Of The Liberal Class ....

The Democrats no longer support the people and the people know it.

[DirkGently]

275. Precisely. Which speaks to the OP. Democrats can retake the high ground here. With leadership.

[secondwind]

182. Obama needs to stay above the fray..... because if he gets involved, it will become all about HIM.

[cantbeserious]

184. That Line Of Defense Is Sure Getting Very Old - Wonder What FDR Would Think

eom

[liberation]

587. He most definitively would have gone down to Florida to do a nice photo-op in support of Jeb Bush

and his anti-union educational reform. You know, in order to stay above the fray while unions are fighting for their survival and stuff.

[democracy1st]

641. He definitely wouldn't have had those wall st economic advisors.

[uponit7771]

695. Kennedy wasn't from Wall St?!!?! Is DU getting fact adverse?!!??!?!

[tavalon]

186. This had better be shit stirring at the New York Times

Otherwise, President Obama, you are in a world of trouble.

[WillyT]

187. K & R !!!

:mad:

:kick:

[old mark]

192. K&R- Bipartisanship....nt

[crim son]

195. GoBama!

:sarcasm:

[jefferson_dem]

196. Just like Boooooooosh!2!1

He's a KKKOrpatist, I tell ya!

[madrchsod]

197. i wonder if he`ll get a 100,000 people...

the next time he steps foot in madison?

he`s a sad excuse for a democrat

[jefferson_dem]

200. Ooopsie. In Wisconsin Obama’s Approval Soars as Scott Walker Plummets.

:) You're a bit off there.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/wisconsin-obama-walker

[eilen]

206. I wouldn't let it swell his head

Bush was really popular on 9/12 and BinLaden, not so much.

[geckosfeet]

202. Ok. Mr. President, that is just wrong. Citizens are NOT distractions. eom

[disillusioned73]

203. Pathetic..

what a waist of my emotions this administration has turned out to be.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dotymed]

207. How can anyone doubt for a second, that our

politicians are completely corporate owned. They are given their marching orders, from the real ruling elite and will not deviate.
It is class warfare......defend yourself or be content with serfdom for future generations also.

[INdemo]

210. Expect more of the same Union busting efforts on a

national level and Obama will do nothing..He is a Republican..We were fooled.It appears that I voted Republican for the first time in my life when I cast my vote for Obama in 2008...Bernie Sanders we need you to run in 2012 !!

[Pholus]

211. So what shoe size does the president wear? I'll send a pair...we ALL should.

"And understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I will put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself, I’ll walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States of America. Because workers deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner."

[rtassi]

225. As soon as we accept this, we become more powerful

NO HELP NOW OR EVER IS GOING TO COME FROM THE OVAL OFFICE ... NO MATTER WHO SITS IN IT! THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS WITH THEM ... YES WE WERE FOOLED AGAIN ... NOW LETS GET OVER IT... AND SAVE OURSELVES ... BTW ... I thinks everyone of us sending him a pair of shoes is a GREAT idea and could make a powerful statement, and then you could demand that the millions of pairs of shoes the WH receives be given to the homeless ... I dare you to start it ... If you don't I will ...
rt

[Pholus]

227. Better if this is NOT organized but spontaneous. My question about shoe size is quite serious.

Answers.com says between 11 and 13 with 12 1/2 likely. His bowling shoe size is 13 1/2 according to the nytimes. That probably is because of the width though. I tend to get a full size larger when bowling because of the width of the shoe.

Anyway, I have a nice set of shoes in size 12 sitting next to me along with a mailing box. I think I will send these shoes to the white house mailing address today with a letter indicating my reasoning and asking that if not used the shoes should be donated.

At that point I've made my statement on the issue. If you guys make the same statement I think it would be grand, but it doesn't need to be formal.

[dgibby]

234. Great idea!

You should make this an op of it's own, and a challenge to others to do the same.

[nashville_brook]

260. i really like this idea...the PR would be priceless...what's comfy enough? Dr Scholls?

[Bluebear]

692. !!!

[Poboy]

214. Net recommendation: +205 votes (Your vote: +1)

[somone]

248. +257 now

for future reference

[Poboy]

294. Net recommendation: +295 votes

[woo me with science]

216. Here we go again. K&R.

Same old song.

[southernyankeebelle]

223. Since we are damn distraction for this president I'll stay home from voting next time around.

[Poboy]

226. Net recommendation: +236 votes

[deutsey]

229. Why should the White House folks waste their beautiful minds on all this drama?

:mad:

[Shagbark Hickory]

235. Disappointing that they didn't stand up to the bully (Walker) while the helpless

peaceful demonstrators got rightsjacked.

[Name removed]

236. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janedum]

237. I never knew what FOS (full of sht) meant until ...

Obama was in office for TWO years, and did none of the things he promised.

[border_town]

243. I guess he/they don't realize

this is beyond Wisconsin.

[somone]

244. The CEO of America is busy

with more important work at corporate headquarters

[Javaman]

247. another example of the DC bubble.

I bunch of pencil neck geeks confusing "tough" with out of touch.

we are on our own completely now.

would you like sugar with your fascism?

[drokhole]

249. Posted this in another thread on the subject: Yeah, because turning a blind eye is super "optimistic

Obama and his entire administration are delusional. First off, they seriously need to cut this jingoistic, "winning the future" shit, yesterday (which, I guess would make it "correcting the past"). I'm so god damn sick of this nationalistic, statist, "us vs. them" mentality. WE ARE A GLOBAL RACE! How about we focus on cooperation, for once?! Advantaging all, without disadvantaging any. Why in the blue fuck do we need to "win the future"? What "future" is there to win?! Are we seriously, as a country, that egotistical that we need to retain dominance of the rest of the world? Fuck. This addiction to competition is detrimental to humanity as a whole.

Secondly, as many have pointed out, "winning the future" sounds like sophomoric, middle-management, bullshit corporate jargon in the first place - and it's a giant fucking embarrassment that it's what currently defines our country.



"We could follow traditional mammalian politics, in which one nation would try to dominate the others, which we now call a zero-sum-game. Or, we could choose a new synergistic path, a non-zero-sum-game, in which all Terrans cooperate to 'advantage all withou disadvantaging any.'" - Robert Anton Wilson


Everything "winning the future" represents, especially "out-innovating" and "out-educating," is a zero-sum-game. How about this idea instead - "all-innovate" and "all-educate" (and here's what I had in mind by that - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x583919a)

[nuxvomica]

251. I'm afraid this is the same old dynamic

He is accused of strong-arming the oppositon while not strong-arming them. Then the opposition gains ground. Remember the Repubs claiming that Obama was shoving health care reform down their throats? But he wasn't shoving it down their throats. Result: weakened reform yet he's still painted as a bully in many people's minds.
When this first started back in February, a local weekly newspaper publisher, a wealthy wingnut, claimed that Obama was behind the organizing of the protests (among other lies like Walker having campaigned on eviscerating collective bargaining). Now he wants to quash that meme. I say, if they're gonna tag you as aggressive, go with it. Little is won the other way.
Anna Freud had it right about people identifying with the aggressor, at least in politics. We want to see some strength, some passion, some advocacy for the common man. If he did that, I think the real bullies are likely to back down as well. That's what bullies do. And people don't know you're fighting the good fight unless you actually fighting for it.
I think Pres. Obama is a good man. I don't think he needs to prove that. I wish he had a Bobby Kennedy type advising him.

[RedCloud]

261. They are scared shitless of union busting states.

[Name removed]

263. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthCarolina]

270. It appears that

jefferson_dem has been left to work this thread alone.

[displacedvermoter]

543. There must be layoffs in their shop, as well

[swilton]

553. Best of all comments

:rofl:

[spooked911]

273. what can they say at this point?

seriously, Obama is a joke of a Democrat.

[Denzil_DC]

276. Lovely characterization of those who disagree with you on tactics

as "apologists."

Speaking for myself, I just choose to give pointless threads that misleadingly propagate memes that some have tried to float repeatedly on DU a wide berth after unreccing. I suspect I'm not alone in that, but enjoy your "victory."

[no limit]

279. What would you call it? And you are telling me this article is wrong?

Then please, by all means, show us how it is wrong.

But I guess a simple mouse click on the unrec button without a single response is far more brave on your part. Great work.

[Denzil_DC]

330. Whereas blabbering all day on a thread like this is brave?

Pffffft!

Nope, the onus is on you to prove the allegation, which you won't be able to do from the article cited. Otherwise this is all just pointless hot air.

[no limit]

368. The article cited says Obama was angry over DNC's involvement and pulled them back

What about that do you think is inaccurate? Can you point to specific evidance that shows this is inaccurate? Or are you going to keep repeating that everyone including the new york times are wrong and you are right but you don't have to explain why.

[chill_wind]

282. Because when it was believed that the DNC/OFA had Obama's tacit approval

there were those here who wanted to make sure he especially would receive great credit and laudatory "for speaking up strongly for the Unions" and helping to save their rights, while wisely staying put, physically. He was actively committed, see? What more did you friggen want?!!11

Now, we need the NEW vehement talking points that support an exact opposite reality (and how quashing and undermining efforts of the national Dems is GOOD!!) We'll get them soon enough. They're just taking a little more time than usual.

[nashville_brook]

285. damn spot on! [phone]

[DirkGently]

288. Howard Fineman, of all people, may have provided those on O'Donnell's show last night.

Something about how Republicans "want" WI college students and Obama to "overreact," so the Republicans can paint Obama as a dangerous cultural radical in the 60's mode. As if they wouldn't anyway. I generally like Howard, but it was an odd thing to say, in my opinion. "Don't protest -- that's what 'THEY' want you to do. But protest is working.

So ... ?

[no limit]

290. Well said, I remember that being thrown around constantly to show how Obama really supports workers

[demmiblue]

302. Oh, bullshit!

link

[chill_wind]

314. LOL! :-)

[no limit]

320. Haha :)

[Ignis]

525. Well played.

:thumbsup:

[LoZoccolo]

315. See #318. n/t

[no limit]

326. Nice try. But that's a pretty lame excuse

[spooked911]

274. well, you know-- they wouldn't want to piss off their corporate donors/overlords

that pic is disgusting

[Lydia Leftcoast]

278. A wise older women once gave me this advice--

"Don't believe what your lover SAYS. Believe what he DOES."

It's good advice for evaluating politicians, too.

Eventually one reaches a point where the fine words don't cut it anymore, not when compared with the reinforcement and continuation of Republican policies.

[nashville_brook]

283. love is a verb -- as a noun it's useless. same w/political support.

you can bet your sweet bippy that the rich folk ask their pols "what are you doing for me"? they are empowered to ask for support and get it -- we, on the other hand, are supposed to make do with an amorphous "it's 10-level chess...or.... you can't see how he's REALLY supporting you b/c he's doing it so well that it's undetectable by FOX news!"

[Larkspur]

287. Obama may think the protests in WI are a distraction now, but he'll be singing a different tune

when he seeks their support for his re-election campaign. If Karl Rove succeeds in busting the unions in the northern states, will Obama finally realize that he lost a major supporter for his re-election campaign? I think he'll see it too late to do anything.

[Better Believe It]

301. He assumes labor will support him in 2012 no matter what he does.

And if he loses the election he can go directly to work for Wall Street and make a fortune.

It's a win, win situation.

[Better Believe It]

289. Kick

[blackspade]

292. Unbelievable!

If this is true then he has lost my vote permanently.

[blackspade]

293. Unbelievable!

If this is true, Obama has lost my vote permanently.

[NoTimeToulouse]

306. I would't coin it as unbelieveable.

What's not to believe in all of this?

Obama's actions apparently haven't lived up to his rhetoric.

Terribly Sad.

[The Backlash Cometh]

297. Now that they dont have the DLC anymore, they want to co-opt the DNC?

I don't understand the correlation between the DNC and the executive branch. I thought they were independents with the same party affiliation.

[defendandprotect]

482. Koch Bros/DLC corporatized the Dem Party --

a corporate cancer still runs thru it --

We need to see democrats from outside the Democratic Party to run --

If we're expecting corporatized Dems who are millionaires and multi-millionaires

to move and vote for legislation which benefits the "general welfare" we're all

nuts, imo!!

Sen. Bernie Sanders can run on a Dem ticket --

Maybe someone like Tom Hayden for VP --

two strong anti-war candidates --

two strong universal health care candidates --



Btw, Biden has been running around for a year now calling for Israel to attack Iran!

Biden says, "Israel would be justified in attacking Iran" -- !!

Two more years of that and we could be in Iran!!

[Name removed]

303. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

307. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

325. The article is bullshit spin

Here is the WI Dems' statement.

And since you're interested in my response: here

[NoTimeToulouse]

345. And yet President Obama hasn't donned those comfortable shoes.

I have a feeling that he won't be dong that any time soon.


Curious...

[yurbud]

308. weren't the events on Wall Street ''beyond Washington''? Isn't just about everything beyond?

That's a tiny little scrap of real estate, and we expect them to be concerned about what happens elsewhere, and they certainly are when the rich clear their throat and rattle their glass for another refill, or an oil company gets pissy because soon Muslim leader won't yield enough of their oil income and so needs a good invadin' or at least a cruise missile shower.

[yurbud]

309. this is the kind of shit that makes you wonder if the DLC is TRYING to beat the GOP to the graveyard

of history.

The GOP is committing suicide as fast as they can, but instead of trying to take advantage of it, the Dems keep trying to catch up.

[DirkGently]

311. That's the best description I've heard of what I've been feeling for a while now. +++

[defendandprotect]

484. Obviously, Koch Bros have influence on BOTH parties --

Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

[nashville_brook]

332. "beyond Washington" = not lobbyists bearing cash = distraction

the American people are a distraction from the "real work" of doing deals with DC lobbyists.

we're just useless eaters, iow.

[yurbud]

339. maybe instead of protesting outside the capitol, people should occupy K Street

and make it impossible for them to do business or even run them out of town.

[NoTimeToulouse]

351. And they'll be doing that to the tune of FAUX-n-Friends screaming

"Terrorists! Terrorists!"

Sadly I believe the age of reasonable discourse i.e. right to protest is nearing its logical end.


Fascists/Fascism doesn't look too kindly on being exposed by the clamjamphrie.

[NoTimeToulouse]

359. Aren't you being a little unfair to the corporate boys?

The are citizens as after all, and even the corporations and moneyed interest that they represent are deemed with some rudimentary form of citizenship. Who are we base squatters to distract from that noble cause to access of power?

[RKP5637]

312. The corps. and highly monied interests in the US tell Obama what to do. The gov. is

not interested in the majority of the people. It is so obvious. Only huge amounts of money talk in the US and they have power. The rest of us are non-essential bottom feeders and are in the way. The country is no longer about people, Americans need to wake up.

[defendandprotect]

486. +1000% -- Everyone needs their BS meters turned up waaaay higher -- !!

[LoZoccolo]

313. This makes sense as I imagine nearly every Democrat already supports the unions.

To inject a partisan element risks alienating the Republican voters who support the protest. The protest is holding its own.

[no limit]

322. What partisan element? This entire issue is partisan.

[LoZoccolo]

327. Apparently not because it enjoys a bigger percentage of support than the Democratic Party.

I see the wisdom in this strategy because I know there's a segment of the Republicans who on some issues should not be in the Republican Party, but who's been fed the conservative talk-show rhetoric for around twenty years and associates Democrats with evil. I see the wisdom in not making them commit to the entire Democratic package quite yet, but delivering on a few things they think are important and letting them change their mind.

After all, law #9 of The 48 Laws of Power is "Win through your actions, never through argument."

[Name removed]

336. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

346. Write this over without the personal attack and I'll respond.

I think we're having a good discussion and I don't want your side unrepresented.

[no limit]

347. I didn't see that as a personal attack but if you took offense I went ahead and editted it out.

[LoZoccolo]

356. We agree that the legislative actions of the parties conflict.

Where we disagree is to how to get the segment of the rank-and-file which does not follow this to switch.

I think it is better for this contradiction make itself apparent within the mind of this rank and file, where it will stick because people will come up with their own reasons to vote Democratic based on their own observation of what the Democrats actually do. I feel that your strategy will bring it outside of that realm, and into the realm of the media and punditry where Republicans can apply distractions, fallacies, emotional tactics and outright lies to the debate. The rank-and-file sees the contradiction and is coming up with its own ideas about it; why make these ideas explicit where they be muddied by the right wing?

Here is more from The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene:

Law 4

Always Say Less than Necessary

When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control. Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinxlike. Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.

Law 9

Win through your Actions, Never through Argument

Any momentary triumph you think gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

[no limit]

357. You are ignoring the fact that for the majority of the time people assumed the DNC was there

we just found out recently that Obama had pulled the DNC back.

So how that does jive with your theory? Are you saying we would be in better shape right now if the DNC wasn't involved at all and it was never reported that it was?

[LoZoccolo]

362. I'm not sure, because I'm not sure what they did.

All that's mentioned is a national network of protest; it's ambiguous if it even materialized. I'm not sure that having sympathy protests contributed significantly to the support that the protest is enjoying.

[no limit]

364. It doesn't really matter what they did, what matters is what was reported

And it was reported especially by the likes of Fox News that the DNC was active on the ground. And that didn't hurt anything. So I don't buy this argument that having the DNC involved would be a problem. It wouldn't be. With their resources it would actually be a huge help.

[LoZoccolo]

496. What does that mean "active on the ground"?

Does that mean that they sent outside agitators? I wouldn't want that known if it were the case, and I would still think it would be unnecessary.

What resources do you think they should use?

[no limit]

510. Why would you even suggest anything about outside agitators?

Are you really not familiar with what the phrase "active on the ground" really means? It simply means that they are actively involved in funding, organizing, and anything else to do with the protests.

I gave you specifics in my reply to you below. But the specifics are not imporant here. What's important is you keep suggesting that by the DNC being involved it would make this a partisan issue and hurt protestors. As I keep pointing out to you that is simply not true because it was already widely reported that the DNC was involved on a large scale. What we now found out is that even though thats the way it was being reported Obama actually ordered them not to use their resources in these protests.

[nashville_brook]

618. b/c, we wouldn't want this to turn into some kind of "partisan" battle!

oh lord...what would happen if this turned political?? the horrors.

:evilgrin:

[Marr]

331. The protest is holding it's own? Have you been in a coma?

That union busting legislation is going through in Wisconsin, minus any budget cover story.

[LoZoccolo]

348. The protest is enjoying support of 60% of the population, but the Democrats, not as much.

The Republicans were going to do what they are doing now regardless of whether or not the Democratic National Committee got involved. The protest itself is doing all it can, but it had no power to stop that. But neither does the DNC.

There is, however, support of recalls of the Republican legislators by the Wisconsin Democratic Party.

[no limit]

380. Does the DNC have one of the largest resources available to any democrats?

The answer is yes. In what way would putting those resources to use to help democrats in Wisconsin be a bad thing?

Remember, they already were widely reported to be on the ground so the argument that it would polarize people doesn't pass the smell test.

[LoZoccolo]

500. If you are going to make a case in the abstract about resources, I can only respond in the abstract

and say that bringing unnecessary elements into a rhetorical struggle leaves one more open for attack, so it's best to make certain that they are necessary. With majority support for the unions, I feel it is generally unnecessary. But if you have a more specific strategy we can talk more specifically. I'm not sure what you mean by the assertion that they were on the ground; to me it sounds like they were planning things that never came to fruition.

[no limit]

507. Let me repeat again.

It was already widely reported that the DNC was on the ground involved in these protests. All major news networks covered it and fox made a habit out of it. There is nothing abstract about that.

This did not do damage, as you said by far the large majority of Americans were behind this. So for you to keep insisting that it might hurt the protesters is absolutely not true, people already thought the DNC was behind this the entire time and people still support workers by a very large margin.

Also, DNC resources are not an abstract idea. You can't possibly be suggesting that they don't exist. They have plenty of resources much of it left over from the 2008 landslide where Obama had won. They have mailing lists, they have call lists, they have 1000s of staffers, and millions of dollars in their coffers. All those resources can be used to help organize people on a national level, to fund political ads, to sign petitions, and to put real pressure on republican state senators and Walker directly using a serious threat of a recall movement.

So to summarize. The DNC has the type of resources that no other democratic organization has and these resources can be used to do all the things I mentioned above. Also, it was already widely reported that the DNC was behind these events therefore the suggestion that the DNC actually being behind it might hurt the image is absolutely not true.

So knowing all this what other arguments do you have against the DNC being involved in these protests?

[bvar22]

398. Your post makes no sense.

If the Majority of the Nation supports the Labor Protests in Wisconsin,
the Democrats are FOOLISH to NOT hitch their wagon to these horses.


Who will STAND UP for THIS Majority?
Rhetoric, empty promises, and slogans are meaningless now.
"Its ALL Lieberman's fault" doesn't work anymore.
Stand UP, or get rolled over.

"By their WORKS you will know them."

[LoZoccolo]

493. Yes, I do think that the Democrats may gain more popularity by doing that.

The risk is to the union's movement, however, and I feel that the loss of union rights at this moment is a bigger emergency.

The Democrats can (rightly) take credit after the victory, but I wouldn't want to risk the victory.

[FlyByNight]

317. K & R

[Deep13]

319. And we wonder why the D. base has deserted the party. nt

[defendandprotect]

490. +1000% -- plus Obama analysis of 2010 that it was because he wasn't far enough to the right -- !!

[Marr]

324. Obama seems like every corporate management sort I've ever met.

Get in, get yours, get out. Doesn't give half a shit about the actual business of the company-- and absolutely zero about the people working in that company. Just toss around a few slogans, yank a few important pricks, get your advancement to *wherever*, and move on.

[nashville_brook]

335. check out the photo...talk about grim corporate managers!

[DirkGently]

337. Some creepy body language there.

[TBF]

338. Never mind the "future" Mr. President,

with your anti-labor attitude you're not even going to win the primary in 2012.

[MissDeeds]

340. We need to think long and hard about a primary challenger

This is unacceptable.

K&R

[NoTimeToulouse]

353. I guess this is where to cue in the

"There will be no primary challenger!" crowd.

As I have learned in life that one should never say never to any possibility no matter how remote.

[dadzilla]

350. Gee, would a 'No Fly' zone over Madison be enough?

No??? Maybe we can get it declared a nuclear testing ground and a couple of bangs later the republiCONs will realize they made a mistake.

There is a rule in politics that runs advises to never punch down. It's there for two reasons. First is that gives legitimacy to your opponent. I don't know about you but what the republiCONs did here is anything but that and I don't want them to grab as cover for what they are doing here. The second reason is that it creates sympathy for the bullied. Again I want no sympathy for republiCONs here.

I realize some of you are figuratively speaking, ready to mount the bayonets. And to you I say, let loose the dogs of war. But consider that this isn't the only trench or field where the battle is taking place.

[NoTimeToulouse]

355. Aside from the straw dogs that are running lose here what would be enough

is for the President to actually stand...and I mean stand for the unions and not pay lip service for what he says he believes in.

There is always a possibility that this is the second to last move in that game of inter-dimensional chess, but I withhold judgment for now.

[Name removed]

365. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

367. Who is staying home in Wisconsin? Maybe the students walking

out of class in protest? You can be mad, but at least make sense. Thanks.

[Capn Sunshine]

395. OK. I guess that November didn't happen in your world

so, then it makes sense. Dems stayed home. They bought the meme, they bought the rw lie , they did not vote.

And now this is what we have.

Make sense yet?

[Rex]

546. Yes all around the country Dems did that, it still has nothing to do

with what is going on is Wisconsin. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[nashville_brook]

383. gee, if we expect our president to spend political capital on our issues, we're suddenly the enemy

that's really transparent.

...and sad.

[Capn Sunshine]

393. No, but you're a tool of those that would destroy him

unwittingly, perhaps meaning well. Nonetheless, you're not part of the solution.

[defendandprotect]

494. Obama is destroying himself -- without any help from liberals ...

[nashville_brook]

595. so true. there's not one liberal who isn't hurt by this... i bet you'd be hard pressed to find who

didn't weep on election night. an historic win. historic majorities in both houses.

and what has he fought for?

extending Bush's tax cuts.
escalating the war in Afghanistan
privatizing public schools
Korean trade deal

imagine if his stump speeches had been reflective of the way he's governed.

[defendandprotect]

630. You're right, he wouldn't have gotten elected ...

in fact, I wouldn't have voted for Hillary because she was DLC --

and had I known that Obama was "New Dem" I wouldn't have voted for him either --

Obama certainly separated himself from the DLC, purposefully, imo!

[DirkGently]

506. You're skipping a few steps between 1) Criticism & 5,237 ) Bringing down the Democratic Party.

[Name removed]

372. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

373. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

377. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

382. Deleted message

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[WolfoftheWild]

394. so, the Repigs take away Union Rights and you have found a way to blame it on Obama? good job.

Obama knows that none of this bullshit will last more than 2 years.
It has pretty much assured the return of Democratic Majorities around the Country.

[Capn Sunshine]

397. forget it, jake

its DUtown.

[Peregrine Took]

406. Good one! n/t

[WolfoftheWild]

409. it's a damned shame.

[chill_wind]

399. Nope. Not what the thread is about.

DU knows what Walker/Republicans are doing in WI.

[WolfoftheWild]

408. reread the OP title

[chill_wind]

418. Read DU. There's no shortage of dialogue all over DU

that conveys a very good understanding of what Walker and other GOP union busting machinery are all about. This thread is about concurrent Dem Washington politics. Don't like it? Too bad.

[WolfoftheWild]

426. are you playing dumb? This whole OP is about turning the blame on Obama. It has no other purpose.

[nashville_brook]

513. why is it SO IMPORTANT to you that a vast majority of DUers are maligned as "bad dems."

[chill_wind]

435. It is what is it is. It's NOT a thread about Walker. It's one about WH Dems

and how we think THEY'RE doing. Don't like it? Too bad.

[Poboy]

529. Net recommendation: +440 votes

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

497. What we're saying is: "Obama is no FDR:" --- Imagine what FDR would be saying -- !!

[liberation]

585. And what are the people affected supposed to do in the meanwhile during those 2 years

Revert into a state of suspended animation, so they can better comprehend once it comes to fruition the sheer genius of Obama's n-dimensional chess strategy which basically consists on rolling over and surrender?

You know, not everybody can afford to play politics, some people have to feed their families, pay their mortgage, make sure they have heat to weather the winter, ensure their kids can go to school. You know all that minutiae that the little people have to do in between re-electing your hero.

[avaistheone1]

396. k&r

Yes, we are damn distractions.

[Poboy]

407. +387 votes ...for those keeping score. -nt

[Name removed]

412. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DirkGently]

508. Haters? Or concerned Dems discussing what's needed from leaders seeking their vote? Potato /potahto?

[nashville_brook]

515. reality-based voters -- we have interests that are being trampled

we need help out here -- we need a BAIL out, but instead we get our schools privatized.


we need this administration to start behaving like Democrats, in order that we can support them.

[DirkGently]

520. Yes. It's not zero-sum. Work with us so that we may work with you.

[nashville_brook]

526. we're mired in slave-mentality. no rich person has this conversation with themselves...

gee, my political party keeps fucking me over. guess i'll just have to suck it up.

you can bet your bippy that no Man of Leisure EVER has that conversation with himself...b/c he has POWER. we are so disempowered that there's actually people here who think they should be getting traction with this "Obama: he's better than a generic Republican" message. and they deliver that message as if it's a felony that anyone would reject it. "OH MY GAWD! you don't love Obama!!"

Well, no. I don't love Obama and anyone who takes those emotions into their political life is either a noob or a boob. Want love? get a dog. Want political power so that you may actually have a country left in a couple of years...grow a pair.

[DirkGently]

536. Sure. Politicians don't work for you for love. They understand cash, & votes. Asking nicely ...

not so much. Survival is the first political imperative, so if you can't either secure that, or threaten it, your concerns come second to those with leverage, whether it be campaign cash, blocks of voters, or some other political pressure.

Pledging undying support to ANY political leader, no matter how morally sound, effectively moves your demands to the bottom of the pile.

[defendandprotect]

427. Anyone still think they'll see Obama rush to the side of LABOR?

[Cali_Democrat]

439. Obama has shown that he fights for the wealthy at the expense of the middle class

Just look at who he surrounds himself with. He's a firm believer in Ben Bernanke, bank bailouts, tax cuts for the wealthy, and private health insurance.

What a complete disappointment this man is.

K&R

[ej510]

444. Obama wants that corporate money.

[Marblehead]

443. Goons

[amborin]

447. K&R

[Rosa Luxemburg]

462. Are we are political party or a corporation?

[defendandprotect]

501. A DLC corporatized enterprise ... see here --

Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[BrklynLiberal]

476. David Plouffe and Dan Pfeiffer don't look too happy.

Must be thinking about how difficult it is going to be to "win the Future" without the help of Labor.

[MNBrewer]

495. that picture has got to be one of the most demoralizing things i've seen

[Kurovski]

502. You can't "win" the future if you don't fight for it.

[myrna minx]

514. But you *can* spoon on a public message board, no matter what anyone says.

:loveya:

[Kurovski]

531. Farkin' A!

C'mere, baby! :pals:

[abqmufc]

509. Backed off Climate change, health care, and now labor....I'm done.

Being unemployed for over 6 months, I no longer have any hope for this country. I've resigned to sitting on a mountain and watching humanity kill itself and capitalism run the global economy into the ground. When someone is ready to force change, let me know. I'm ready but let's be honest, protests and pickets don't work....we've been doing that since day one and the powers that be keep getting more powerful. We may outnumber them, but they have all the power and the law on their side.

Since corporations are people, the people have spoken and we lost.

[librechik]

511. nitwits n/t

[Vincardog]

517. NOTE to Obama "LEAD follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY" YOU need to get with OUR agenda or be left behind

[MissDeeds]

541. And we need to demand that he do so. n/t

[JJW]

523. O is blinded

by his love for banksters.

[Name removed]

528. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katty]

532. no drama? rather, no support when events demand some

WH backup that could at least have a hint of showing some balls NOW. Win the future? The future is GOING UNDER every hour in this country. People/nations CREATE their futures by their ACTIONS TODAY.

[global1]

547. You Can Forget About Winning The Future Because We're Losing The Present......

the silence from the WH is deafening. Sad to watch this country go down the tubes without so much as a whimper from the WH.

[louslobbs]

540. What a sad pathetic looking bunch........and just think, they have jobs and benefits.

Lou

[babsbunny]

544. So, who can run against him!

Michael Moore, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann???

[defendandprotect]

555. Yes -- democrats from outside of the party -- not yet pre-bribed and pre-owned ...

Unusual times call for unusual medthods --

Michael Moore, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann???


Sen. Bernie Sanders -- Tom Hayden -- anyone strongly anti-war --

Imagine the money we could save if we brought the troops home!!

Not to mention returning to a more moral and less brutal impact on the world!!


IMO, anyone outside government with a known reputation -- Wm. Greider --

and lots more --



We have enough exposure on the internet to run a campaign for 2012 purely on

the internet -- "MSM" corporate-press hasn't been showing anything, anyway!!

We can run debates on internet TV --

Announcing a candidacy which would be free of corporate money -- !!




Right Wing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --


http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[hay rick]

604. Suggestion on how to primary Obama.

In the primary, write in the name of a liberal Democrat who has no campaign and no interest in the job. The point of the vote is that a not very large, organized group of liberals in a particular state can run a small campaign for candidate x and make it clear that the meaning of a vote for x is that the voter is displeased with Obama AND WILL ALSO NOT VOTE FOR HIM IN THE GENERAL ELECTION. A campaign for Al Gore in early primary, swing state FLA might be a good idea. Mr. Gore would immediately say he wasn't interested in the job...

[defendandprotect]

628. Well, something to think about --

I'm not an Al Gore fan -- especially after his selection of Joe Lieberman ...

who would have made quite a Trojan Horse of a VP --

Doubly weird because both had religious educations!


And, btw, think we need to pay much more attention to the VP spot --

Biden has been running around for a year now calling for Israel to attack Iran!

Biden says, "Israel would be JUSTIFIED in attacking Iran" -- !!



As if Biden's background re Clarence Thomas Hearings wasn't questionable enough -- !!

[hay rick]

634. I have no interest in resurrecting Al Gore.

My interest is in depriving Obama of the support of the people he has turned his back on. If enough people vote for a liberal Democratic Obama-alternative to jeopardize his chances of carrying just one or two swing states, he will have to reconsider his options.

An important point is that the "candidate" should not have his own campaign. The write in vote needs to be a referendum on Obama's policies and not a vote for a fringe candidate. The write in votes need to be encouraged as a pledge to vote for neither Obama nor the Republican in the general election. The object is to put Obama in a situation where he can not defeat the Republican candidate without appeasing the "stuck" liberal traditional Democratic voters- union members and teachers, for example, by moving way back left TO THE CENTER.

For their part, the write in voters have to be prepared to vote as advertised. Easy enough when there's so little left to lose.

[defendandprotect]

647. Can't honestly say that I totally understand your plan, however ....

I don't see Gore as being "to the left of Obama" -- for one.

That's why I recited some of my concerns about him --

Additionally, Gore had lifelong oil industry support over his career --

Gore's also a co-founder of the corporate DLC which has eroded the Dem Party

and moved it to the right -- and which was financed by Koch Bros!

Sen. Bernie Sanders is to the LEFT of Obama -- without doubt --

and he could run on a Dem ticket --


Further, the 2010 vote was crystal clear -- a strong response to the Obama's betrayals

on universal health care -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- 74%+ of the public wanted a single payer

government run health care plan.

Obama made private deals with Big Pharma and the private h/c industry.

Yet, Obama used 2010 as an excuse to move to the RIGHT!

And, given the rising seriousness of Global Warming and other problems resulting from

the exploitations and abuses of capitalism, I think it's too late to think about anything

but a total and real threat to Obama --

Generally, I'm interpereting what you're advocating as a substitute for a "none of the above" vote?

Unfortunatley, since votes are anonymous -- and stay at home voters are anonymous, largely --

the vote is often analyzed as a victory for one's own side -- see 2010, again -- and the stay

at home's are often suggested to simply be content with the way things are.

However, suggest this to others and let's see what they say about it --

[SaveAmerica]

549. It's officially official, these fools do not want to win another election, how can they not see the

connection? Dots are being connected all over Obama and a well orchestrated loss to the next Republican candidate and they don't even care. Supremes vote to allow unlimited money to candidates by corporations; it's OK. Tea Party and Koch decide to cap Unions at the knee so they can't organize FOR OBAMA and that's OK too. They are idiots.

[defendandprotect]

559. We don't want to elect another Democratic president who governs as a Republican....

Looks like the Koch Bros has been running not only the GOP but the Dem Party, as well



The Rightwing Koch Bros Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

[SaveAmerica]

568. I was going to ask how many of the people in the OP pic is connected to the Clintons

I'll have to do the research when I'm not so exhausted but I'm guessing many of them based on your comment.

[defendandprotect]

627. Understand -- we're all pretty exhausted with this --

Everyone was enthused about Obama and electing him --

[derby378]

557. Change you can believe in? HELL, no

I am so fucking sick and tired of this pandering to the extreme right that I'm about to hurl. This 11-dimensional game of tiddlywinks Obama's been playing is looking more and more like Go Fish.

[MissDeeds]

566. I agree

So much was riding on the last election. We really, really needed a strong, decisive leader. Obama has caved to the right time and time again. I am a Dem through and through, and I want a president who is a strong leader for the people - not corporations and the ruling class.

[Name removed]

558. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

589. I thought he was just like Bush...or Reagan...or Nixon...or something.

[humbled_opinion]

562. LOL so why then is Obama's Poll numbers going up?

Don't people recognize the danger of this playing to the right? Anyway As the President secures the centrists as part of his re-election bid, he leaves us all out to dry, what exactly does that say about his principles? Repubes are going to pick him apart on these issues, anyway doesn't matter because the choice between Obama and any Repube makes the choice perfectly clear.

[defendandprotect]

648. We advocate a move to the left and you analyze it as a move to the right?

We want a challenger to Obama -- a serious challenger -- from the left!

I'd also suggest to you that they've certainly fixed and stolen elections --

why not polls?

[Marnie]

563. It is long past the time that the Democratic party realizes

Obama is not the leader of the Democratic party. Like Sarah Palin, he just doesn't want to do that work. He doesn't want to get his hands dirty dealing with covering the backs of the people who elected him.

We are just too damn much of a "distraction."

Which is to say that the Democratic Party better find some spokes persons and leaders, like Dean and anoint them as official spokes persons from the Democratic party and put some shoes on the ground with their voters now.

Because their base, Obama's base, the Dims base, is being blown to bits by Rethuglican bomb throwing terrorists like Scott Walker, and we may not be alive to vote for Obama a year from now.

Incidentally, remember Republicans cheat big time during elections, I hope the spineless Dims are preparing themselves to deal with that.

[nashville_brook]

579. as long as these power brokers are in control of the party we'll never see another 50-state strategy

the way Dean was treated after winning the election for Obama was criminal.

[Name removed]

577. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

580. Wow. I had no idea.

I had no idea that what was happening to people didn't matter. I'm appalled! Holy Hell. WTF? Looks like those corporations have bought themselves a president. Goddammit. I didn't want this to be true. :cry:

[FirstLight]

582. AYFKM!?!

you know, the gop doesn;t have to worry much about having a good candidate for 2012, cuz this man has left us far behind...

ugh

'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'

[Tx4obama]

586. The article is BS. There is NO top official named in there for the quotes they used! n/t

[jefferson_dem]

593. Hush now.

A week old trumped up piece with unsourced vague allegations ... surely means Obamer sux! Dontchaknow~!

[Tx4obama]

594. It really pisses me off that 'some' DUers believe unsourced crap like what's in that BS article! n/t

[nashville_brook]

603. you should address your concerns to the New York Times...we'd ALL

love to know who (Daley) said this (Daley). We'd LOVE to know who (Daley) in Obama's new "no drama" staff, would be so tone-deaf (Daley) as to refer to the most significant labor struggle since PATCO as a "DISTRACTION."

Seriously -- go find out who said that, and get back to us.

[PhillySane]

588. Winning the future?

What future?

[Raine]

590. "winning the future" ... in other words another term in office

for this administration and that's all that's important. :sarcasm: Never mind what happens to the people of this nation. :argh:

[PhillySane]

592. I believe you are right.

You might risk that second term just to get some shit done.

[senseandsensibility]

596. kick in case anyone

missed this.

[WillyT]

598. Kick !!!

:kick:

[robinlynne]

599. I can't even say what I'm feeling right now. I would be barred.

[tavalon]

610. Same here!

The main thing I'm thinking is expressly forbidden in the rules and anyway, Howard Dean already ruled it out.

[styersc]

601. STAY OUT OF IT!!!!!!

The strength of this movement is that it is middle class, working Americans!!!!! We've all seen the photo of a confident Obama with the caption, "I Got This.". We've got to have this, we have to turn to National and tell them "We Got This..." All over the country we have to rally. This has been a long time coming but you can feel it swelling!!!!!

No violence!!! Nothing Hysterical. Just resolve, law suits, recalls and lots of work at election time!!!

[pam4water]

602. The staff look like a bunch of mafia dons. They aren't the people we've been waiting for :P K&R

[Name removed]

608. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

611. I know they know we know what they're not doing. So why commit political suicide?

[Riley18]

613. Obama had plenty of time to waste down here in Florida

with his mentor and friend, Jeb Bush. For us, the people who voted for him, he is too busy. Obama said he would support the people whenever they came out to fight for their rights. It is like we do not even have a president. We are alone except for a few good politicians with the Wisconsin 14 being our biggest heroes.

[nashville_brook]

617. amen! that field trip to Jebbiville should tell us everything we need to know what teachers mean

to this administration.

[DesertDiamond]

616. Some wise person said, "Just when we needed an 'angry black man' we didn't get one."

IMO, we needed Jesse Jackson!

[Lebam in LA]

622. With All Due Respect

The White House can go pound sand:mad:

[Beartracks]

626. These look like the kinda guys you just wanna have a beer with! n/t

[leveymg]

629. They'll have plenty of free time after November 2012 at this rate.

They're either a bunch of idiots or they want the unions, and the Democrats, to lose.

[Taverner]

631. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

That is all I can say

[bertman]

632. Nice work, brook. This is Democratic Underground's first best selling novel. REC.

[democracy1st]

640. Kicked ,nothing but a Goldman Sachs admin from the word GO!

[blindpig]

645. kick

Had enough yet?

[EnviroBat]

651. Fuck these maggots!

Let them call me and ask for a fucking dime. LET THEM CALL ME!!!

[nashville_brook]

653. that's a grim bunch in the pic, no? as if they've ever cared about anything but their own asses.

[Zorra]

654. Yeah Democrats did real well in the last election because of their do nothing

for real people policy.

Fuck them. If it weren't for the Wisconsin Dems and all the support they are getting from DU I would have renounced my Democratic party membership.

[Imagevision]

676. Obama; "Change you can believe in"... :-) hahahahahaha.....

[Rex]

680. Well this OP says it all on how DU feels about the WH blowing off

something as a 'distraction'. Not a good idea.

[Agony]

683. Don't worry, it's in the past now. Just don't look back, just don't look back...

everything will be fine just don't look back

The past is off the table.

FFS

[uponit7771]

696. ******************ANOTHER BULLSHIT OBAMA BASHING ARTICLE, NO SOURCE...FEW QUOTES********************

[Denzil_DC]

699. After all the bloviating, here's what the WI senators have to say:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x627926

[JuniperLea]

701. Why bother with the truth?

When outrage against Obama is so invigorating?