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We need to stop calling them conservatives and call them fascists

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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:00 PM
Original message
We need to stop calling them conservatives and call them fascists
which is what they really are.

The country has to start facing the truth and to compare today in America with the past in Italy and Spain.
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Denninmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree.
That's what they are.
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Cal33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. And we should also stop calling them Republicans. They are Neocons, and they have kicked out
Edited on Thu Mar-10-11 04:39 PM by Cal33
the old time Republcans leadership years ago, and have usurped their power.
The Neocons were smart enough to keep the Republican name, so that the
brain-washed old-timers continue to think that they are voting "Republican."
They never knew that they are voting "Neocon" today, and the Neocons want
to keep it that way.

Let the old-timer Republicans know. them, though. Most of them have been so thoroughly brain-washed!]
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. You'd be proud of my fourteen year old son.
He's been doing some independent reading on political philosophies (I had no idea). He came up to me this afternoon and said (knowing I consider myself a liberal, progressive, socialist) "you know mom, I've been doing some reading and I find myself agreeing with a number of conservative points." I held my breath, but he continued, "but I can't figure out where the Republican party is conservative. They seem more neocon to me." (Gee, you think?) I just patted him on the back and told him to keep reading anything he could get his hands on.
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Cal33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Your son is a remarkable young man, indeed! At that age I hadn't
the faintest idea of what was going on in the political world, nor was I interested.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. He doesn't have much choice in this household. LOL!
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly! n/t
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Fascists" is exactly what they are.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes!
And they can call us "socialists" in return!

That'll sharpen the "debate"!
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. They can call me a socialist all they want. They need to be eliminated as a governing party.
Fuck a "debate".

There is no debate, their ideology is a multi-time loser, their policies are universally failed, their demonstrated outcomes are terrible.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Remember to vote...n/t
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Haven't forgotten a single time yet and usually work campaigns too.
The sad thing is how little I have to convince non-partisans and non-voters with.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Really....
are you one of those "there's not a dime's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans" types?

Need some resources?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
45. Meh...more than a dime but still not worth a quarter.
Enough in common to wreck us either way but one might buy a little more time.
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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Sick to goddamn death of false equivalencies!!!!
"Socialist" DOES NOT FUCKING MEAN THE SAME THING AS "Communist".
"Socialism" IS NOT A FUCKING DIRTY WORD.

Whether its "fascists on the right are like socialists on the left" or any other such bullshit rationalization for passivity in the face of outright assault, people who want to kumbayah on the sidelines can step the fuck off the line and hope like hell that their civil discourse stops the Republicans from shoving their red hot poker further up their ass. As for me, I've had enough.

Republicans and their ass munching plants in the media (especially on the wasteland of talk radio and on Faux News and the rest of the in-the-bag hacks that were once journalists but are now nothing more than dumpster diving whores to their corporate masters and navel lint of train wrecks like Sheen and Lohan) can all go straight to hell.

This is NOT a debate any longer either....when the Republicans break the law to strip away the rights of the people of Wisconsin that is a fucking coup d'etat - its not a disagreement. Its not a "tough issue". Its not a "courageous vote". It's more wholesale thievery from the middle class to the upper class and at the behest of the purely evil greedy bastards pulling the strings.

This can not end well for them now.

They are refusing to give up a PORTION of their vast fortunes (in many, many cases not EARNED fortunes but grifted and stolen fortunes - garnered not through hard work or building a better product like they would have the masses believe; not as the by-product of some work ethic or business acumen that the rest of us mere mortal humans lack; not through anything more than rigging the system to stifle free enterprise, crush labor unions and collective bargaining and in favor of cronyism and monopolies and passing off of "externalities" onto the public, which is also another way of privatizing profits and socializing risk and costs) - no one is yet calling for public executions, but these sons of bitches like the Kochs and their ilk had best start studying history a lot closer.

They cannot be allowed to get away with this any longer.

The breaking point was crossed and its high time that the people abandon the leaders who have foresaken them (You listening Barry???? You had better START LISTENING or when this gets uglier than it already is, you can get right in line with the other once solidly installed "leaders" who are no longer in such world roles. Join the people and assist them or get to the sidelines of history where you damn well will belong!!!) and move forward to retake what is rightfully the MAJORITY'S - our system of governance - from the fucking human waste that is still trying to squeeze out that last drop of blood from the turnip.

Its time for our own days of rage in this country. Its time to put the fear of the mob into the hearts of this cold-blooded bastards pulling the strings. Its time to end the era of "starve the beast" and start the era of "carve the fat cats".

How?

Here's one idea for you...gas prices and profits are at all-time record highs (which is really something since those profits were already the highest in human civilization history). Step One - seize and nationalize every refinery and distribution center today. Step Two - reduce the cost of a gallon of gas to $3.00 nationwide and hold it there. Take those record profit levels, plow the money back into the treasury and pay off this so-called crippling debt with it. If we are going to be stuck with these gas prices I would rather see the profits used to benefit the nation than further enrich the already obscenely wealthy.

Need another idea? How about we cancel the entire Department of Homeland Defense? Install deadbolt locks on the cockpit of every plane and seal it off at the gates. Instant "security" on planes and no one gets felt-up any more - and the best part is we do not have to PAY anyone to feel us up in airports any more!

Still not enough? How about finally, you know, ending the undeclared, unreported on but still treasury draining wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Close the bases. Bring everyone home. Free Gitmo. Leave Germany, Japan, Korea and just about everywhere too. I know....I know....but we NEED that base infrastructure to "protect" ourselves!!! BULLSHIT!!! The only thing that is "protecting" now are the outsized profits of the fucking oil companies and powerful corporate entities anyway. There are no goddamn Iraqis laying seige to St. Louis. There aren't any gangs of Afghans setting up roadblocks or annexing parts of California. The Japanese aren't planning to re-bomb Pearl Harbor....neither are the Germans for that matter!

Still not satisfied, still need more? Return the tax code to the Eisenhower Administration's "anti-business, socialist, job-killing, commie" levels of 90% in the top brackets.

Here's what we "sacrifice":
1) bloated gas companies and price gouging to enrich the few at the cost of the many;
2) bloated, fascist infrastructure of "security"...which is really nothing more than population control with a worse name;
3) bloated military operations and hugely expensive infrastructure for last centuries wars (last I checked, the British Navy is not STILL trying to defend the lost empire....its time we recognized the folly of our present by looking at the history of the Greeks, the Romans, the Turks, the Ottomans, the Austria-Hungarians, the French, the English, the Russians, the Spanish, the Dutch and the Portuguese - EMPIRES CRUMBLE AND UNNECESSARY ONES COLLAPSE). We do not need to defend the world, they can take care of themselves while we get our own house in order;
4) a regressive and punative tax system for the working class at the expense of those who have already benefited disproportionately to their actual contributions to the world or have benefited the most from the highways and roads and bridges and infrastructure that those higher taxes paid for in the 1950-1980 period.

Here's what we keep:
1) worker's rights
2) a middle class in this country
3) a chance to actually regain the moral high ground among nations
4) a fairer and more equitable country, better equipped to address the serious issues of the day instead of eating itself alive to enrich the very very richest of the rich.

That's it....no more room for compromise or politics or negotiations - we don't negotiate with terrorists after all, and that is what I call people who are willing to trash the rule of law like the Republicans of Wisconsin and Ohio and Michigan and Indiana and everywhere else they are applying the Shock Doctrine to enrich their cronies further.

ENOUGH. I HAVE HAD IT!!!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Nice rant!
By the way, who is "Barry"?
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. I AM a socialist! unashamedly so!
And they're fascists.
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. That word was skillfully de-valued by the Right.
They threw it everywhere and tagged everyone with it.
They made it a useless word.
We need something else. I think "radicals" would be enough and still effective due to the fact that people all over America are waking up with the thought: Wow! These guys are....Radicals!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. I recommend poopie-head. That'll really help reaching out to others.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Please stop with the fascist stuff...
..it is just plain silly. People throwing this word around obviously have not studied history very thoroughly and have no idea what it actually means to have lived under a true fascist regime.

The Republicans are loathsome, what they are pushing in Wisconsin is awful, but it isn't fascism. Many states don't have collective bargaining at all for public employee's, even when Democrats run those states - that doesn't make those Democrats fascists.

I live in Virginia, there are no public employee union collection bargaining rights at all (and it is a right to work state) and Mark Warner and Tim Kaine governed this state for years - and they were Democrats not fascists. Should Virginia reverse these policies and allow public employee collective bargaining? Yes. If we don't does that make Virginia a fascist state? No.

Federal Government employees largely had their collective bargaining rights taken from them under Jimmy Carter and a Democratic congress, does that make Jimmy Carter a fascist? No. It just makes him and the Democrats wrong.

Throwing out fascism and Hitler analogies is counterproductive and not accurate.

The Republican party is radically wrong, boneheaded and even dangerous, but they aren't by and large fascists, and this certainly isn't a fascist country.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Dude...
did you miss the picture of Hitler in the very Wikipedia entry you cited??

Duh.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks for the sanity n/t
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. You can be fascist without funny mustaches and gas chambers.
and yeah Warner and Kaine are fascist since the facilitate corporate capture and subversion of the government. Kaine is also a theocrat.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Look up the TEXTBOOK definition and then come back to me
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. If Fascist doesn't define the Teabaggers/GOP....
Fascism, , is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.

fascism - A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights. ...
...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. A couple of (non-angry) points:
1. You're right that most Republicans are not fascists, and none of them are members of an officially pro-fascism political party. I recommend a couple of books for you: Republican Gomorrah and Eric Fromme's classic book on fascism (the title of which escapes me). Many in the conservative leadership are, indeed fascists, even if they don't call themselves that and even if they're not calling for genocide.

2. Calling them fascists is not the same thing as calling someone Hitler.

3. This about way more than the unions. The assault on organized labor is just one of many atattacks conservatives have launched lately, which is why it reeks of fascism to so many of us; the union thing is the tip of the iceberg.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Escape From Freedom
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Fascism does not equal Hitler.
As an ideology, what the GOP is doing in quite a few states right now is indeed Fascist.

"Fascism is a radical, authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

And this doesn't sound like current GOP legislative agendas to you?

I don't need to equate Scott Walker, Rick Scott, Rick Snyder (oh weird, just now realized how their names overlap) with Hitler to recognize their shared ideology as being fascist in nature.

It's not just the removal of collective bargaining rights, more importantly, it's the manner in which it was done.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Do you think all corporatists are....
fascists?
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. How are you using the term?
When referring to the GOP agenda as fascist, I'm considering not just the content of legislation, but the political methods being used to strengthen corporate hegemony at the expense of the individual.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. If you want to consider how fascists....
Edited on Thu Mar-10-11 05:41 PM by SDuderstadt
bring their ideas to fruition, study the actions of the S.A. surrounding Hitler's demand for passage of the Enabling Act:

Brown-shirted Nazi storm troopers swarmed over the fancy old building in a show of force and as a visible threat. They stood outside, in the hallways and even lined the aisles inside, glaring ominously at anyone who might oppose Hitler's will.

Before the vote, Hitler made a speech in which he pledged to use restraint.

"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures...The number of cases in which an internal necessity exists for having recourse to such a law is in itself a limited one," Hitler told the Reichstag.

He also promised an end to unemployment and pledged to promote peace with France, Great Britain and Soviet Russia. But in order to do all this, Hitler said, he first needed the Enabling Act. A two-thirds majority was needed, since the law would actually alter the constitution. Hitler needed 31 non-Nazi votes to pass it. He got those votes from the Catholic Center Party after making a false promise to restore some basic rights already taken away by decree.

Meanwhile, Nazi storm troopers chanted outside: "Full powers – or else! We want the bill – or fire and murder!!"


http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm

Does that really sound like the GOP or the Tea Party to you?

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Seriously?
It sounds exactly like the Tea Party pukes in my county. They're itching for this. No joke.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Have they actually done it?
This is getting stupid.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't think it's necessary to cross over into actual violence to subscribe to a fascist ideology. You draw the line elsewhere.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. I live in a country with a history of fascist rule...
with a history of military dictatorships.

The differences are not great. Fascism is definitely on the rise in the United States. Our democracy is extremely weak at best, if not a total facade. Human rights abuses are rampant. War is the norm. We imprison more of our population than even open, universally recognized dictatorships. And we spread fascism throughout the world (who installed the former military dictatorship in the country where I'm living at the moment and most military dictatorships around the world? That's right, it was the U.S.).

OK, so we don't have active gas chambers. That's the difference between us and the Nazis. But that's the ONLY difference between us and the Nazis, and that is not OK.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. Fine if you all don't like calling them Fascists then I have another term.
They are Feudalistic. They want us all to work in corporate factories for hardly any pay in exchange for the protecting of having a roof over our heads and just enough food and water to keep us working. The Regulus right would be able to implement their theocratic laws all they wish while the Nobles (CEO's) lived above them and the rest of us could be beaten for not kneeling deep enough at mandated church on Sunday. I'm being serious here too, this is what they want they want a return to Feudalism.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Radical Fascists...
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Agreed and Recommending.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. "Regressives" would probably catch on faster.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. Winner
of the 'worst idea of the day' contest.
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Wisconsin_2_Nation Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
40. Government Officials: US Imported 10,000 Nazis after WWII
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sweetapogee Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. this is what i think...
tomorrow I'm off from work. I have physical therapy at 9:00. this will last about 90 minutes so that makes it 10:30ish. I'm then going to buy a pair of cheap gym shoes 2 sizes too big (to accommodate an air cast on my left foot). By then it should be 11:30, then I'm going to Castle Grill for their 3/4 Lb "Castle Burger" and get some fries and a cola. I'm hungry now thinking about it but I have been on crutches for 10 weeks now and I think I deserve some beef damm it. This is what I want.

So that's my opinion on the matter, sorry if you disagee.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
42. My preference is calling them RADICALS
I know they hate that and fascist is so not only over used but mis-used. Fascist comes off as so overly dramatic.
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Mendocino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. They are wrapped
in a flag and carrying a bible. Simple but true.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. Here's a thought experiment. Berlin, 1934. A guy named Herr Skinner runs a society of people
Edited on Thu Mar-10-11 09:46 PM by Nye Bevan
who are vigorously opposed to the fascist regime. These people, who number in the thousands, like to get together to debate how much they hate the government they are living under, and how they despise its policies. While many members stay anonymous, many others do not try to hide their identities and even go on protest marches to express their opposition to Hitler. Herr Skinner is a pseudonym, but he freely reveals his real name and lives openly in Berlin.

What do you think would have happened?
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