Libyan Revolution Tweets, Day 22 (or 24*), Part 4

[Catherina]

Libyan Revolution Tweets, Day 22 (or 24*), Part 4

Today's threads: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

#Feb17 Youth organizers invite Gaddafi's collaborators to stand under his umbrella ella ella ella ella ella http://bit.ly/faa34E

"We have Plan A, Plan B, Plan C. Plan A is to live and die in Libya. Plan B is to live and die in Libya. Plan C is to live and die in Libya."
- Saif Islam Qaddafi during interview

*I called this Day 22 because the official start date was #Feb17 but events kicked off 2 days earlier.

Previous Day 21 threads: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7

The world’s 100 largest arms dealers, excluding Chinese vendors, sold weapons for $401 billion in 2009, with US vendors in first place. In 2009 the UK and France sold €687,399 of "Chemical or biological toxic agents, riot control agents, radioactive materials, related equipment, components and material". In 2011, the US government was going to sell Gaddafi $77Million of Military Hardware. The deal was quietly scuttled right before the revolution started. (Also see "Briefing and Major Arms Sale, State Dept Briefing on Oct 2010)

AC360 March 9 update with courageous Alex Crawford, the only reporter who got into Zawiya
On other alarming news, on March 9 the Sydney Morning Herald reported Nerve Gas used on protesters in Yemen. Will we hear a word about that?

Threads for Days 1-22 are in my journal

"I was born in Tunisia, I persevered in Egypt, I sacrificed myself in Libya, I have fought in Yemen&Bahrain. I am Freedom, I will not die."
- Libyan4life Jeel Ghathub

LibyanThinker The Libyan Thinker
New video of Soldiers Executed for Refusing to Shoot Protesters in #Libya

Click here for updated and interactive map

Military Installations

Oil Map


- Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries
- MAP of Protests across the Middle East

Please rec if you read these so I know if the effort here is worth it.

[pinboy3niner]

1. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 9:18 PM THURSDAY, MARCH 10

Libya time = EST +7 hours, PST +10 hours

[pinboy3niner]

2. Guardian reporter in Zawiyah: "The worst devastation I've seen in any town centre"

From The Guardian's News Blog:

5.39pm GMT:

ITV News international editor Bill Neely was the first journalist into Zawiya today after its recapture by pro-Gaddafi forces, and he has filed an account for the Guardian.

It's being edited right now but here are the first extracts of what he saw:

It is certainly the worst devastation I've seen in any town centre. Mix a huge IRA bomb with a tank battle and add the aftermath of an artillery barrage and you get some idea of the damage to the centre of this town of a quarter of a million people.

Neely also spoke to some of the remaining residents of Zawiya:

We talked to one man who said "People are being arrested for no reason, people who stayed in their homes for the whole seven days of the fighting. You cannot imagine what is happening here". He put the death toll at around 150 but no-one really knows.

Looking at the rocket and bullet holes in the town's buildings, it wouldn't be surprising to learn that Gaddafi's troops had fired tens of thousands of rounds. The minaret of the mosque, perhaps a hundred feet <30 metres> high when I last saw it, has been shorn in two, the top now a mess of mangled concrete.

We'll have more when we post the full article shortly.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/10/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live

[Catherina]

3. Here's a video that goes along with that. It shows the Mosque that got destroyed and surroundings

AlmanaraMedia Almanara Libya
http://on.fb.me/gbOvLf -- Exclusive Video from Zawya City - The Vid also Shows The Mosque that got hit by #Qaddafi Forces
35 minutes ago

It's devastated

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=116812718394288&oid=179449562095105&comments

[bobbolink]

32. SAd.... but actually fitting... it shows G's true spirituality....

[bobbolink]

30. . . . . . . .

:cry:

[pinboy3niner]

4. Chart: EU arms exports to Libya

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 10:

9:13pm < (2:13 PM EST) >

This image, reproduced from a Guardian report, has been doing the rounds on Twitter in recent hours. We thought you might find it interesting. The emphasis is not ours.





http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[sabrina 1]

6. They armed him, now they are responsible for

the slaughter going on. They are OBLIGATED to stop is, somehow!

[Catherina]

5. france calls the European union to start opening communication with the NTC

Hendka hend mohammed
france calls the European union to start opening communication with the NTC فرنسا تدعو الاتحاد الاوربي لبداء الحوار مع المجلس الوطني #libya
19 minutes ago


Is it just me or does anyone else here have the feeling that France, the UK, Italy and the US are each maneuvering to get the best deal they can with no regard for the lives of the Libyan people?

[sabrina 1]

9. All of them are probably trying to figure out

how a new government, led by the revolutionaries, would be for business.

I don't think they care too much about the Libyan people. If they did, they never would have dealt with him in the first place.

Italy's Berlusconi is a close friend of Qadaffi, all that oil can get you many friends.

But the world is now witnessing their ally killing his own people. And they all have egg on their faces.

However, these people will want assurances that their business deals are not affected should the Revolutionaries prevail.

I would not be shocked to learn that they are discussing this with the leaders of the revolution before offering any kind of assistance.

They can always invade and then install their own puppet. It's not like they haven't done it before.

[Catherina]

7. BBCWorld: White House spokesman says US in 'direct contact' with #Libya opposition to assess plans >

UKguy4justice Aminul Hoque
BBCWorld: White House spokesman says US in 'direct contact' with #Libya opposition to assess what their plans are for 'post-#Gaddafi' #Libya
20 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[pinboy3niner]

8. "THANKS FRANCE"

From Libya Live Blog - March 10:

9:23pm < (2:23 PM EST) >

This image posted online purports to show a sign erected by the Libyan anti-Gaddafi opposition in Benghazi, following France's diplomatic recognition of the national transitional council based in the city...





http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[Catherina]

11. Makes me sad. I wonder if they'll still thank France a year from now.

France could have done so much more. Right now France is just replacing one business card with another. This is Bosnia II imo.

[bobbolink]

36. "replacing one business card with another" Eloquent way of stating it.

I've been feeling like I've seen this movie before. :cry:

[pinboy3niner]

10. ICC Chief Prosecutor "No leader can commit massive crimes to retain or gain power"

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 10:

9:27pm < (2:27 PM EST) >

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, says would welcome hearing Gaddafi's version of events as part of his investigation. Speaking in The Hague, he told Reuters:

I have met Saif, Gaddafi's son. I would welcome any information from Gaddafi and others who are on notice on how they are punishing past crimes and preventing new crimes.

I will inform the UN Security Council on May 4 on the Libya situation. I will inform them when I will present a first case to the court. The court has a mandate to do justice and will do its part.

If the judges then issue an arrest warrant, the UN Security Council will plan for its part. The real challenge for the Security Council and states is how to implement arrest warrants.

There are no exit strategies for anyone who commits massive crimes. The new rule is: No leader can commit massive crimes to retain or gain power.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[defendandprotect]

65. LIBYA HURRA -- !!!

[Catherina]

12. Rebels have been driven from the town of Ras Lanuf, still hold the refinery.

evanchill Evan Hill
Rebels have been driven from the town of Ras Lanuf, but I am told by a source who was there there an hour ago they still hold the refinery.
15 minutes ago Favorite Undo Retweet Reply

[Catherina]

13. Germany is preparing to announce its formal recognition of the National Council in Libya by tomorrow

libyanfsl Libya NFSL
Germany is preparing to announce its formal recognition of the National Council in Libya by tomorrow #Feb17 #Libya
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[Catherina]

14. EU Council votes in favor of recognizing the National Council in Libya as the only legitimate rep

ibntarabulus Ibn Tarabulus
EU Council votes in favor of recognizing the National Council in Libya as the only legitimate representative of Libyans. GAME OFERRRRRRRR!
16 minutes ago

[pinboy3niner]

15. WOOHOO!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[sabrina 1]

16. Excellent, so they won't be taking Saif's calls anymore.

Unless he's calling to hand over his father for trial along with the rest of the family.

[pinboy3niner]

19. From your keyboard to God's ears, Sabrina!

International recognition of the Transitional National Council also paves the way for providing direct support to the opposition--including providing arms legally.

:hi:

[Catherina]

20. #Libyan govt denounces French decision to recognise rebels as legitimate govt as 'real' provocation

BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
#Libyan government denounces French decision to recognise rebels as legitimate government as a 'real provocation'
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[pinboy3niner]

23. So now Gaddafi wants to declare war on France? LOL!

:rofl:

[Catherina]

28. My heart is really heavy right now. Having flashbacks of Vietnam, Yugoslavia now n/t

[bobbolink]

35. Exactly. History never repeats exactly, but if our eyes are open, we seen the signs.

:hug:

[formercia]

48. French surrender

More news at 11.

:rofl:

[sabrina 1]

24. So, what are they going to do about it?

Kill people? Now they will be killing respected members of the International Community. They need to think about that!

Poor Saif, my heart bleeds for him! :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

66. United Libya United --

[Catherina]

17. VIDEO: Libyan rebels joined by more defectors

Gheblawi Ghazi Gheblawi
RT @BBCWorld: VIDEO: Libyan rebels joined by more defectors http://bbc.in/grfFTB #Libya
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Libyan rebels joined by more defectors

10 March 2011 Last updated at 19:13 GMT

...

In Zawiya, just 30 miles from the capital, Tripoli, government forces appear to be in control.

They have also extended their attacks to the oil town of Brega, around fifty miles east of the port of Ras Lanuf, where there is still heavy fighting.

But the often poorly equipped rebels are being joined by more defectors. BBC correspondent Jon Leyne has been meeting them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12706423?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[defendandprotect]

68. KR

[Catherina]

18. Ship from #Syria arrived #tripoli with weapons on it - unconfirmed yet

hamzamu hamzamu
Ship from #Syria arrived #tripoli with weapons on it - unconfirmed yet , #libya #feb17
14 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[pinboy3niner]

22. UN Security Council needs to authorize enforcement of arms embargo. nt

[David__77]

25. Does the resolution allow forcible search of ships?

If so, then implementing that course would be required to prevent arms from reaching the armed parties to the conflict as mandated.

[pinboy3niner]

29. I don't think the resolution authorizes more than monitoring

The NATO chief's statement today also referred to "surveillance and monitoring" of the arms embargo by repositioned NATO maritime assets in the central Med, but no plan for active intervention.

[Catherina]

21. After defecting most soldiers have just stayed home. #Rebels largely alone in #Ras #Lanuf.

MilitantNews Stephen Morgan
#Libya After defecting most soldiers have just stayed home. #Rebels largely alone in #Ras #Lanuf. TNC now calling troops to enlist 4 battle
2 minutes ago

[sabrina 1]

27. I wonder will it change their minds when they find out

that Libya's new government is now recognized as the legitimate government?

Sounds like some leaflets need to be dropped on the military letting them know they are fighting for traitors who no longer are a legitimate government but an enemy force killing the people of Libya.

There will be consequences for anyone helping the people's enemies from now on. Give them a chance to do the right thing.

[defendandprotect]

69. +1000%

[necso]

26. It's tough to fight against weapons

that you can't counteract (more pilots (...) being brought in?). And it's tough to fight against modern military tactics (intense bombardment (land, sea and air) followed by armored assault).

But popular forces have done very well, considering their great disadvantages. And there's no shame in giving ground when overmatched; ground can be retaken, lives cannot be replaced. (A potential strength of popular forces is flexibility in tactics.)

Brutal repression was inevitable (whether more or less visible) once a certain point (protests) had been reached, and it's pretty clear what that brutal repression will look like.

[sabrina 1]

33. Good post, I agree. Retreating doesn't mean

being defeated. As Shakespeare said 'he who fights and runs away will live to fight another day'.

They should be about preserving life now, they need every fighter.

As you said, it is amazing how successful they have been so far considering what they are facing.

[bobbolink]

37. Very good points. thank you. I also think they are amazing in how well they have done witth what

they have!

"And there's no shame in giving ground when overmatched; ground can be retaken, lives cannot be replaced. "

I needed to hear that.... I get sad whenever there is a reversal... I will now keep your wisdom in mind...it helps me to understand this better, and yes, their flexibility is important.

Thanks! :hi:

[Catherina]

31. Confirmed number of martyrs in #Misrata since the beginning of the revolution is 54

LibyanDictator The Dictator
Confirmed number of martyrs in #Misrata since the beginning of the revolution is 54. #Libya #Feb17
7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[sabrina 1]

34. Just thought of something! Now that the EU has recognized

the revolutionary govt. doesn't that make them a member of NATO? Was Libya a member?

And if so, that 'trigger' they talked about, if Qadaffi attacks the forces of this new recognized government, doesn't that make it necessary for NATO to protect them?

Just wondering.

[JanDutchy]

38. EU hasn't recognized.

Lady Ashton said we only recognize states, not regimes. Libya is not a NATO member. Neighbour Malta is EU-member, not a Nato-member (neutral???/!!!)

That's interesting because Ghadaffi said: I am the leader of the revolution (probably he means the past one)

Only France (also a EU-member !!!) seems to have recognized.

[sabrina 1]

45. Thanks for the information,

I thought I had read that the EU had decided to recognize the new government.

But if France has, don't see why others wouldn't follow?

Didn't know whether Libya was a member or not, so that won't help then.

[Catherina]

44. No... Not a part, by far

NATO is all North America, UK & EU countries with a few countries from the old Eastern Bloc. No North African or Middle East counties are part of it. NATO's used to maintain and expand Western hegemony; it was formed to counter Communist expansion by the Soviet Union. Plainly put, it's an imperial army for the West. Libya, and any other former colony, was never part of it.

If NATO steps one foot on the ground, overtly, all hell will break loose.

"After five rounds of enlargement, NATO's 12 founding members - Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States - have been joined by Greece and Turkey (1952), Germany (1955), Spain (1982), the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland (1999) and, in the most recent round of enlargement, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia (2004)."

http://www.nato.int/docu/nato-trans/html_en/nato_trans01.html

Here's an alphabetical list:

Albania
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
Czech Rep
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States

[sabrina 1]

46. Thank you, should have figured that out.

I wouldn't want them there either, seeing what they have done to Afghanistan.

Just don't know what can be done to protect those poor people.

[Catherina]

50. I don't know either.

I'm really mad at France right now. If any European country could take Gaddafi & sons personally out it's France. They have very advanced equipment and good intelligence on Libya.

I hope I'm wrong but I foresee civil war in Libya now. All France did was give the Libyan youth false hope that it's going to help them out of the goodness of its heart. I've seen this show before. The violence is going to escalate and under the guise of peacekeeping, they'll start talking about partitioning Libya to defend "Free Libya" and dump a few tons of depleted uranium along the way. Oil politics with France first in line to get the best deal.

I feel very cynical and disheartened now.

[sabrina 1]

62. It does seem bad for the revolutionaries right now.

And I would not put it past the Western powers to have concluded that a victory for Qadaffi, even if later they decide to take him out, would teach a lesson to other countries like Bahrain, Yemen, Jordan etc. also rising up against some of our favorite oppressive regimes.

We KNOW they were not happy about the ousting of Mubarak and Ben Ali, but had to accept it in the end.

But you can imagine the terror the West felt when this wave of uprisings against their 'interests' got out of their control.

They don't know what to expect from new governments regarding their own interests and we know that the slaughter of individuals is not a concern for them, after all they're doing it themselves.

So Europe and the U.S are not the ones to help in this situation imho.

But is there anyone else?

[Catherina]

70. No one's going to help them honestly but I think China will get involved.

China's been scouring the world for oil and several places we're *concerned* about are because of China's access to their oil. The Darfur conflict is a prime example. Right now China gets 70% of Sudan's oil and is in desperate need of more.

It was getting 10% of Libya's oil before and I expect them to try to get more. I think they'll finance arms sales there and we will too, just as happened in Sudan.



In addition to the oil, Libya would be a convenient strategic base of operations against the mass uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa, that are giving all the former colonial powers heart attacks right now.

Look who's already singing Battle Hymn of the Republic

Back to the Shores of Tripoli? Aid the Libyan Opposition
Posted by Daniel Pipes Mar 10th 2011 at 8:21 am in Foreign Policy, Obama, Politics, Soldiers | Comments (24)

The official hymn of the U.S. Marine Corps famously begins with “From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, we fight our country’s battles in the air, on land, and sea.” The reference to Tripoli alludes to the Battle of Derna of 1805, the first overseas land combat fought by U.S. troops and a decisive American victory. (A U.S. Marine painter, Charles H. Waterhouse, depicts “The Assault on Derna, Tripoli, 27 April 1805.”)

Recent fighting in Libya prompts a question: Should the Marines be sent anew to the shores of Tripoli, this time to protect not the high seas but the rebellious peoples of Libya rising against their government and calling for assistance as they are strafed from the air by troops loyal to Moammar Qaddafi?

...

Taking these considerations into account, what advice to give the Obama administration? Help the Libyan opposition with aid and escalate as needed.

Humanitarian, political, and economic reasons converge in Libya to overcome legitimate hesitations. Working with international authorization, the U.S. government should fulfill its accustomed role of leadership and help Libya’s opposition. However risky that course, doing nothing is yet riskier.

http://bigpeace.com/dpipes/2011/03/10/back-to-the-shores-of-tripoli-aid-the-libyan-opposition/

[sabrina 1]

74. I have to say, the last thing the revolutionaries need is help

from Daniel Pipes.

China, yes, and Russia. But they will act in their own interests, not the interests of the people. They might not want to see Qadaffi gone if they are happy with their deals so far. They might be fearful that a new government, if it is helped by the Western powers, will beat them to the oil, like Iraq.

As you say, it is not looking good at all right now. But I have not given up. The people can retake territory they have lost. You cannot dismiss the human spirit especially when they know what will happen if they lose.

As for splitting the country, I hope not.

I wish there was someone that could be trusted to help them without any ulterior motive.

Wow, Italy gets a lot of its oil from Libya. Wonder will that continue now?

[Catherina]

76. I wish it were just him

The way I look at it, none of the people who've been deaf to the screams of the poor or the screams from places like Gaza for 60 years are going to do anything for Libya out of the kindness of their hearts. I agree with you about them not acting in the interest of the Libyan people but none of the world powers will. Very few leaders today period are capable of acting even in their own people's interest. It's a joke to pretend there's any concern for Libyan life. I really think the country's gonna end up split cause Gaddafi's not going anywhere. Even killing him wouldn't be enough because his sons and daughter are ready to step in and continue the regime. You'd have to kill ever last one of them and then clean the whole top echelon out.

[Iterate]

39. Libyan fuel storage facilities

http://books.google.com/books?id=8iw-OlGJsJ8C&lpg=PA321&ots=nrOMWQ4ZNS&dq=libya%20electrical%20power%20locations&pg=PA344#v=onepage&q=%22fuel%20storage%22&f=false">Storage Complexes and Freight Consolidation

It's in a goggle book, so I can't c&p, but the point is that because of the earlier sanctions G & regime located most of the larger storage facilities in areas it could control -near airports and bases. Most notable for those in the west are Al Zawia, Janzur, Al Hanee, Sebha, Tripoli Airport, and Sidee Gaber.

Since there has been almost no recent domestic production, this storage (and other smaller, local storage) has been the source of most of the fuel used in the west. What I don't know yet is the storage capacity of those facilities.

In the past 5-10 years or so, they have made an effort to convert electrical plants to NG, but quite a few of them still run on oil -which they can no longer refine or import.

[pinboy3niner]

40. AJE: Greek minister enroute to Tripoli to pick up captive Dutch soldiers

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 10:

10:14pm < (3:14 PM EST) >

A Greek minister is on the way to Tripoli to pick up the three Dutch soldiers captured a fortnight ago, Maltese government sources tell Al Jazeera. This reportedly follows yesterday's talks between Libyan envoys and Maltese and Greek diplomats. More details expected in the early hours of the morning. Naturally, we'll keep you updated...
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[JanDutchy]

41. Cameron and Sarkozy, to the president of the European council:addafi and his clique should leave:

8.32pm: Here is the text of a joint letter from British prime minister David Cameron and French president Nicolas Sarkozy, to the president of the European council, calling the Gaddafi regime's actions "utterly unacceptable" and concluding: "To stop further suffering of the Libyan people, Muammar Gaddafi and his clique should leave":

Since the Libyan people have started to rise against Muammar Gaddafi's brutal regime, the world is witnessing on a daily basis an unacceptable continuation of violence and repression in Libya. Ignoring UN Security Council resolution 1970 demands as well as calls from regional organisations and the whole international community, Gaddafi's regime continues to attack his own people including with aircraft and helicopters. It is clear to us that the regime has lost any legitimacy it may have once had.

This deliberate use of military force against civilians is utterly unacceptable. As warned by the Security Council, these acts may amount to crimes against humanity. All those involved in deciding, planning or executing such actions must know that they will be held accountable.

France and the UK are committed to the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and national unity of Libya. We support the Libyan peoples desire to choose their own leadership and to decide their own political system. We welcome the formation of an Interim Transitional National Council based in Benghazi and we are engaging with the Council and its members to develop a cooperative dialogue.

When the Libyan people win their fundamental rights, we should be ready to support them with the necessary assistance and cooperation, in order to promote stability and development in Libya, for the benefit of all Libyans.

Today's priority is to cope with the political and security situation.

To that end, we propose to our European partners, our Allies, and our Arab and African friends to undertake the following steps:

1. To stop further suffering of the Libyan people, Muammar Gaddafi and his clique should leave.

2. We support the efforts of the Libyan Interim Transitional National Council to prepare for a representative and accountable government. We should send the clear political signal that we consider the Council to be valid political interlocutors, and an important voice for the Libyan people in this phase.

3) We condemn, and call for an immediate halt to, the use of force against civilians by the Gaddafi regime. We support continued planning to be ready to provide support for all possible contingencies as the situation evolves on the basis of demonstrable need, a clear legal basis and firm regional support. This could include a no-fly zone or other options against air attacks, working with Allies and partners, especially those in the region. We are working together on elements of an appropriate UNSCR.

4) We call upon the UN to evaluate and closely monitor the humanitarian situation in Libya, and to make proposals to ensure full access for humanitarian organisations and assistance to displaced people. We stand ready to help in this endeavour.

5) We support the investigation announced by the International Criminal Court Prosecutor, and the message this sends that the regime will be held to account for its actions.

6) We call on all countries to implement fully the arms embargo, including banning the provision of armed mercenary personnel and to take measures to discourage such recruitments, or departure of planes or convoys to that end, and we stand ready to co-operate with them in this regard.

7) Regarding displaced persons outside Libya, should the situation deteriorate, we should all be ready to act through further financial and material assistance, including military assets, in cooperation with international organisations and countries concerned

[defendandprotect]

71. kr

[JanDutchy]

42. Update Breaking on Dutch soldiers

Dutch marines caught in Libya being freed

Updated 04:05 AM Mar 11, 2011
ATHENS, Greece (AP) - A Greek official says three Dutch marines who were captured after a botched evacuation mission in Libya will soon fly to Athens under a deal reached with the Libyan government.

The Defense Ministry official says a Greek military transport has landed in Tripoli to pick up the Dutch and is expected to leave soon.

He says the handover was agreed during a meeting in Athens earlier Thursday between Libyan envoy Mohamed Tahir Siala and Greek Deputy Foreign Minister Dimitris Dollis.

The Greek official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC110311-0000018/Dutch-marines-caught-in-Libya-being-freed

[Iterate]

43. CORRECT: Libyan Oil Installations Undamaged, NOC Chief Says

CORRECT: Libyan Oil Installations Undamaged, NOC Chief Says
Thursday, Mar 10, 2011 By Margaret Coker Of The Wall Street Journal

This guy is a regime hack, so I don't want to quote him for anything other than what he didn't mean to say:

"Mr. Ghanem said that looming sanctions against his government and central bank would not cause hardships for the country despite the fact that Libya is dependent on gasoline imports. He also said that the government has not yet started making contingency plans for how to restart oil production should the sanctions regime come into effect and block the return of foreign oil partners and key foreign oil personnel who make up a significant amount of the Libyan national oil company's own manpower. "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it," he said."

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZW20110310000014

Emphasis added. Please embargo at will, and let the irony take care of itself.

ed. add link

[pinboy3niner]

47. Guardian: Report pours cold water on hopes for a no-fly zone happening anytime soon:

From The Guardian's News Blog:

8.43pm:

The Guardian's Ewen MacAskill reports from Brussels on the Nato meeting – and pours cold water on hopes for a no-fly zone happening anytime soon:

<Nato's> moves are minimal and represent a victory for the US and Germany, which are opposed to military intervention, in particular the no-fly zone backed by Britain and France. Unless there is an atrocity in Libya, the chances of military intervention are increasingly slim.

<Nato's secretary general, Anders Fogh> Rasmussen set out three conditions for Nato intervention. "Firstly, there has to be demonstrable need for Nato action. Secondly, there has to be a clear legal basis. And thirdly, there has to be firm regional support," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/10/libya-uprising-gaddafi-live

[pinboy3niner]

49. U.S. General: "West must be prepared for drawn-out impasse or Gaddafi military victory"

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 10:

10:42pm < (3:42 PM EST) >

James Clapper, the US director of national intelligence, told today's Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that the west must be prepared for a drawn-out impasse - or a Gaddafi military victory.

Because of its superior weapons and logistical capabilities, "I think over time, over the longer term, that the regime will prevail," he said, adding that Gaddafi has military units - equipped with tanks and artillery - that have the ability to maintain and replenish their weapons and ammunition.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[pinboy3niner]

51. UPDATE: White House dials back on General's statement

10:46pm

The White House is reportedly trying to scale back retired Lt Gen Clapper's statement, saying he had given a "static assessment" of the situation as it stood today.

But if you look at it through a "dynamic lens", taking into account motivation, isolation, Gaddafi's loss of legitimacy... You can come up with a different assessment,

said President Obama's National Security Advisor Tom Donilon.


Asked if the US administration was content with the intelligence director giving Congress "a static assessment", he replied:

The president is happy with Director Clapper.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0

[Catherina]

52. I was just reading an article about that

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/world/africa/11clapper.html?_r=1&hp

U.S. Intelligence Chief Says Qaddafi Has Edge in Conflict
By MARK MAZZETTI and DAVID E. SANGER
Published: March 10, 2011

WASHINGTON — One week after President Obama demanded that Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi cede power in Libya, the president’s top intelligence official predicted on Thursday, “over the longer term, that the regime will prevail” in Libya’s civil war, an assessment that cast significant doubt on efforts so far by the NATO allies to drive him from power.

...

In his testimony, Mr. Clapper said that the rebel groups were “in for a tough row, because a very important consideration here for the regime is that, by design, Qaddafi intentionally designed the military so that those select units loyal to him are the most luxuriously equipped and the best-trained.” Dismissing the idea that the Libyan leader would step down the way the leaders of Egypt and Tunisia did, he added: “We believe that Qaddafi is in this for the long haul. He appears to be hunkering down for the duration.”

In Brussels, top representatives to NATO on Thursday were debating whether to impose a no-flight zone in the country, an idea that might lose support if European governments think that American spy agencies believe Colonel Qaddafi is likely to defeat the rebels.
...


Some of his public comments in recent months have raised eyebrows in the White House. Last month, his office issued a clarification after Mr. Clapper told the House Intelligence Committee that the Muslim Brotherhood, a force in the tensions coursing through Egypt, was “largely secular.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/world/africa/11clapper.html?_r=1&hp

[pinboy3niner]

58. Interesting, but the writers seem to be wrong on one point

The prospect of Gaddafi routing the opposition and surviving in power probably would only make a no-fly zone MORE likely.

After dissing Gaddafi individually, and collectively in adopting U.N. sanctions, Western powers know they can expect zero cooperation from him if he stays in power. He'd only be more of a problem for what the U.S. and EU powers see as their interests, and it seems likelier that they'd act to prevent that outcome.

[joshcryer]

61. Exactly. It'll be impossible for western powers to support Gaddafi now.

The point of no return has passed. France is probably going to get involved in a big way I'm thinking.

[joshcryer]

60. Welcome to the beginning of the deligitimization of the revolutionaries.

From now on it's going to be about how they're losing and need help. It doesn't matter if they are losing or not.

[Catherina]

53. journalist just came back from Raslanof : They are attacking everything, i almost died out there

hamzamu hamzamu
journalist just came back from Raslanof : They are attacking everything #libya #feb17 i almost died out there
10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[Catherina]

54. hospital and mosque are destroyed under air force and rocket attacks in Bengawad today

hamzamu hamzamu
hospital and mosque are destroyed under air force and rocket attacks in Bengawad today #libya #feb17
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[Catherina]

55. In 3 weeks the ex- #Gaddafi Generals have done absolutely nothing 2 organize thousands of defected>

MilitantNews Stephen Morgan
#Libya In 3 weeks the ex- #Gaddafi Generals have done absolutely nothing 2 organize thousands of defected troops in2 an army with the people
6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[David__77]

57. Defection or desertion?

These are two things. Isn't the Tripoli authorities' force comprised of conscripts? I think so. Of course there are many deserters as well as defectors. Defectors would go on to fight on the other side, while deserters would leave the armed fight. This distinction may be the issue more than any lack of initiative on the part of defected high-level officers. Both defection and desertion would be net positives to the Benghazi-based opposition position.

[Catherina]

63. A little of both I imagine

The military units that defected were mostly a parade Army.

Gaddafi never trained or armed them. One former Colonel explained that all he ever gave them was a uniform and parade routes. Their equipment is outdated, defective, in poor repair and minimal. By guess is those Generals don't know the first thing about leading which is why they're spending most of the time teaching people how to march and salute (there were concerned tweets about this).

All the real equipment and training went to units personally commanded by his sons. At least 3 of the sons have their own brigades of well trained, highly equipped Gaddafi fanatics- their own personal SS.

I think natural leaders will spring up and do the job, Che-type. I'm not holding my breath on these Generals.

David, I'm sorry if I sound so bleak. I need time to digest some things.


Here are the Brigade Commanders. Saadi's brigades are confirmed.

Saadi Gaddafi – His interests are soccer and the film industry, but it is said he has charge of one of his father’s many personally-loyal brigades.

Muttassim Gaddafi – Lt. Col. in the Libyan Army and National Security Advisor. He also heads his own brigade. Muttassim fled to Europe after being implicated in a failed coup to unseat his father. He was eventually forgiven and returned to power.

Khamis Gaddafi - He is one to rival his brother Hannibal for spine-chilling character. Khamis is a Russian-trained police officer and heads his own special forces Khamis Brigade. This is the brigade sent in to quell the revolt in Eastern Libya when it became apparent to the regime that they couldn’t depend on the army to fire on their own people.

I nominate him as likely person in charge of directing the foreign mercenaries said to be from Sub-Sahara Africa and the old Soviet bloc.

...

http://www.sandraoffthestrip.com/2011/02/24/aisha-gaddafi-and-her-gang-of-brothers/

[necso]

64. It's important to keep morale up.

The regime hopes to break morale, figuring that this will be much to their advantage.

No people anywhere should underestimate the difficulties in overthrowing regimes that have spent decades (and fortunes) building their power.

[bobbolink]

67. I would hope that we on this thread are allowed to express our true feelings, and not

feel pressured to paste on a smile.

[necso]

73. You're free to do what

you like within the rules.

Discouragement, however, can be like a highly contagious virus; and once you figure you're beat, you're well on your way.

[bobbolink]

75. Repression is also nasty.

I am not going to derail this thread, but I am asking for you to accept people as we are, without judgments.

And that is what "freedom" is really all about.

[Catherina]

56. Full text of joint letter by Cameron and Sarkozy

LibyaFeb17_com LibyaFeb17.com
Full text of joint letter by Cameron and Sarkozy - #feb17 #libya - libyafeb17.com/2011/03/ras-la…
19 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Full text of joint letter by Cameron and Sarkozy
Posted on March 10, 2011 by Admin

23:19 Here is the full text of the letter by David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy, via The Guardian:
Since the Libyan people have started to rise against Muammar Gaddafi’s brutal regime, the world is witnessing on a daily basis an unacceptable continuation of violence and repression in Libya. Ignoring UN Security Council resolution 1970 demands as well as calls from regional organisations and the whole international community, Gaddafi’s regime continues to attack his own people including with aircraft and helicopters. It is clear to us that the regime has lost any legitimacy it may have once had.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/03/ras-lanuf-hospital-being-evacuated/

Letter from David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy to Herman Van Rompuy
The following is the text of a letter sent by the British and French leaders to the EU president on the ongoing crisis in Libya

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 10 March 2011 21.06 GMT


Since the Libyan people have started to rise against Muammar Gaddafi's brutal regime, the world is witnessing on a daily basis an unacceptable continuation of violence and repression in Libya. Ignoring UN Security Council resolution 1970 demands as well as calls from regional organisations and the whole international community, Gaddafi's regime continues to attack his own people including with aircraft and helicopters. It is clear to us that the regime has lost any legitimacy it may have once had.

This deliberate use of military force against civilians is utterly unacceptable. As warned by the Security Council, these acts may amount to crimes against humanity. All those involved in deciding, planning or executing such actions must know that they will be held accountable.

France and the UK are committed to the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and national unity of Libya. We support the Libyan peoples desire to choose their own leadership and to decide their own political system. We welcome the formation of an Interim Transitional National Council based in Benghazi and we are engaging with the Council and its members to develop a cooperative dialogue.

When the Libyan people win their fundamental rights, we should be ready to support them with the necessary assistance and cooperation, in order to promote stability and development in Libya, for the benefit of all Libyans.

Today's priority is to cope with the political and security situation.

To that end, we propose to our European partners, our Allies, and our Arab and African friends to undertake the following steps:

1) To stop further suffering of the Libyan people, Muammar Gaddafi and his clique should leave.

2) We support the efforts of the Libyan Interim Transitional National Council to prepare for a representative and accountable government. We should send the clear political signal that we consider the Council to be valid political interlocutors, and an important voice for the Libyan people in this phase.

3) We condemn, and call for an immediate halt to, the use of force against civilians by the Gaddafi regime. We support continued planning to be ready to provide support for all possible contingencies as the situation evolves on the basis of demonstrable need, a clear legal basis and firm regional support. This could include a no-fly zone or other options against air attacks, working with Allies and partners, especially those in the region. We are working together on elements of an appropriate UNSCR.

4) We call upon the UN to evaluate and closely monitor the humanitarian situation in Libya, and to make proposals to ensure full access for humanitarian organisations and assistance to displaced people. We stand ready to help in this endeavour.

5) We support the investigation announced by the International Criminal Court Prosecutor, and the message this sends that the regime will be held to account for its actions.

6) We call on all countries to implement fully the arms embargo, including banning the provision of armed mercenary personnel and to take measures to discourage such recruitments, or departure of planes or convoys to that end, and we stand ready to co-operate with them in this regard.

7) Regarding displaced persons outside Libya, should the situation deteriorate, we should all be ready to act through further financial and material assistance, including military assets, in cooperation with international organisations and countries concerned.

We are copying this letter to colleagues on the European Council.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/10/libya-middleeast?CMP=twt_gu

[JanDutchy]

59. Update on the Update :) on Dutch Soldiers :Handover an Free

UPDATE:


Athens - Libyan leader Moamer Gaddafi has released three Dutch navy pilots who had tried to evacuate Dutch citizens from the strife-torn country, a spokesman for the Greek defence ministry told the German Press Agency dpa late Thursday.

The pilots had flown to Libya in late February to pick up Dutch citizens stranded in the Libyan port of Sirte, but were seized by government troops.

Late Thursday, officials in Tripoli turned the three men over to Greek officers.

'One of our planes is landing this evening in Tripoli' to pick them up, Ilias Vergitsis, spokesman for the Greek Defence Ministry, told dpa.

It is expected that the plane should return to Athens early Friday morning with the three pilots as well as several Greek citizens who work in Libya

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/africa/news/arti...



-----

They will be expected in Greece at 03.30 11-3-2011

I send it to the Dutch ANP, but they still haven't published it !!

[Catherina]

72. Part 5 here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=608397&mesg_id=608397